The Fight over Star Citizen’s Production Delay Is Getting Dirty

Nope, because there is absolutely nothing to compare it to.
This answered my question partly but misses the point entirely.
the rest of it is the same misguided statement you already made.

Again, what game even comes close to being this large/ambitious? No Mans Sky? That game was a real hit, exactly what was promised, LOL.

I rather play a great game later, than a shit game right now. Its as easy as that.
What evidence do you have it will be released?
 
I rather play a great game later, than a shit game right now. Its as easy as that.

In theory, sure. But when that "great game" consistently borks on their release dates (and completely scraps another game entirely (SQ42)) how do you even know you'll live long enough to even see the "complete" product?
 
Ultimate boondoogle in at least the modern era of videogames.
 
This answered my question partly.
the rest of it is the same misguided statement you already made.


What evidence do you have it will be released?
Nothing misguided about the truth, unless you just dont want to believe it.

And what proof do I have? wtf kind of question is that.
 
Nothing misguided about the truth, unless you just dont want to believe it.

And what proof do I have? wtf kind of question is that.
You havent stated the truth about this project.
I asked you for evidence of it and you have none.
 
In theory, sure. But when that "great game" consistently borks on their release dates (and completely scraps another game entirely (SQ42)) how do you even know you'll live long enough to even see the "complete" product?
If the game was ready, they would release it, its not. They would make 3456324564536734567x more money than they do right now. Which is something im sure they would love to do.....
If shit is broken, fix it BEFORE releasing it(I know, more crazy talk).
 
You havent stated the truth about this project.
I asked you for evidence of it and you have none.

"Nothing misguided about the truth, unless you just dont want to believe it."

What evidence do you have that the game wont come out?

Let me take a guess at your reply:

"It isnt out yet and games should be made at the snap of the finger"
 
"Nothing misguided about the truth, unless you just dont want to believe it."
You havent stated any truth about this project, your words hold no value.
You are trying to misdirect with generic statements.
 
The idea that was pitched in the original campaign, required a budget of around $23 million, where the money from crowd funding would serve to convince outside investors to provide the remaining funds.
As the campaign continued to be successful, outside investors were no longer required. When this seemed inevitable, the community was asked again, what to do when the campaign reached that $23 million mark.
That original game would probably have been out by now if the community would have wanted that. But a comfortable majority of 88% out of the (20791) people who voted, wanted the scope of the game expanded with any additional funds that could be gathered.
This particular vote, was done on the new (current) website, and is as far as I know still active, so the million people who didn’t originally vote could alter the results in the future:

Source
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million

J7KLO8D.jpg

Do you really think it's a good idea to leave this kind of decisions to the clueless people who have zero knowledge about game development?
It's irrelevant what people voted on a stupid poll, this kind of poll never should've been made in the first place. But it serves as perfect self justification now.
I'm beginning to suspect that they weren't incompetent at all, but made this their business model deliberately after the initial campaign has shown that people are willing to pay for concepts.
Drag out development for as long as possible, while reaping in the donations, and create as much fake content with the least possible effort as humanly possible. Concepts doesn't cost that much after all.
I just wanted a game, but here we are five years later, no game in sight, a ton of concept art, a weak pre-alpha demo, that is representative of a project in very early development only and nothing else to show for the truck loads of money thrown at them.
 
You havent stated any truth about this project, your words hold no value.
You are trying to misdirect with generic statements.
I have destroyed you with logic and reason, you have nothing but the typical hive mind of hate over something you have proven to know 0 about.
 
If the game was ready, they would release it, its not. They would make 3456324564536734567x more money than they do right now. Which is something im sure they would love to do.....
If shit is broken, fix it BEFORE releasing it(I know, more crazy talk).
The hitch there is that selling ship upgrades is a proven income to them, they can count on it. And if they have a business mindset they wouldn't release the game even if it was ready. Because if they had the game out, they could no longer sell concept art and a promise for money.
The problem with releasing the game, is that it has been dragged out so long, that by this time most people who had any interest in a space flight simulator has already signed up for the game, which means proceeds from releasing a full game will be modest at best, due to the fact that a large portion of their target audience already has the game. So no, at this point they have a reliable income from selling hope, they wouldn't want to switch that an unknown amount of short term influx of cash from actual game sales.
They backed themselves into a corner, deliberately or not doesn't matter in the greater scheme.
 
The hitch there is that selling ship upgrades is a proven income to them, they can count on it. And if they have a business mindset they wouldn't release the game even if it was ready. Because if they had the game out, they could no longer sell concept art and a promise for money.
The problem with releasing the game, is that it has been dragged out so long, that by this time most people who had any interest in a space flight simulator has already signed up for the game, which means proceeds from releasing a full game will be modest at best, due to the fact that a large portion of their target audience already has the game. So no, at this point they have a reliable income from selling hope, they wouldn't want to switch that an unknown amount of short term influx of cash from actual game sales.
They backed themselves into a corner, deliberately or not doesn't matter in the greater scheme.
Is it backwards day today?

They can sell ship upgrades the exact same way, and sell the finished game...which will in turn make them a billion times more money. Releasing the game doesn't mean people aren't gonna buy ships anymore....its the exact opposite.

And to think that the game wouldn't sell well because of how many backers it already has..... I dont even...
 
Is it backwards day today?

They can sell ship upgrades the exact same way, and sell the finished game...which will in turn make them a billion times more money. Releasing the game doesn't mean people aren't gonna buy ships anymore....its the exact opposite.

And to think that the game wouldn't sell well because of how many backers it already has..... I dont even...

If they release the game and continue to sell ships, it will immediately get blasted as Pay 2 Win.

Also people would be much less likely to buy ships for hundreds of dollars once the game releases.
 
Is it backwards day today?

They can sell ship upgrades the exact same way, and sell the finished game...which will in turn make them a billion times more money. Releasing the game doesn't mean people aren't gonna buy ships anymore....its the exact opposite.

And to think that the game wouldn't sell well because of how many backers it already has..... I dont even...
I'm pretty sure the market for star citizen already owns a copy of it by now. It's a lot easier to sell upgrades to ships when any criticism is countered by "it's not done yet". No one can prove the game won't be amazing until it launches, so right now it's in their best interest to milk it for as long as they can.
 
Is it backwards day today?

They can sell ship upgrades the exact same way, and sell the finished game...which will in turn make them a billion times more money. Releasing the game doesn't mean people aren't gonna buy ships anymore....its the exact opposite.
So they can sell a concept art of a non-existent non-implemented ship, that's years away from being in-game? I guess you have a very different definition of "same" than the rest of the world.

And to think that the game wouldn't sell well because of how many backers it already has.....
Another generalized meaningless statement. You seem to be armed to the teeth with those. Like firing blanks, there is no need to defend against you, because you only make noise.

I dont even...
...make arguments.
 
If they release the game and continue to sell ships, it will immediately get blasted as Pay 2 Win.

Also people would be much less likely to buy ships for hundreds of dollars once the game releases.
You can get any ship you want in the game with money or time.

And people will be much MORE likely to buy ships since they have a completed game to play, not to mention the mountain of new players it will bring.
 
I'm pretty sure the market for star citizen already owns a copy of it by now. It's a lot easier to sell upgrades to ships when any criticism is countered by "it's not done yet". No one can prove the game won't be amazing until it launches, so right now it's in their best interest to milk it for as long as they can.

The amount of people who will buy a finished game will be much larger than the current amount of backers...much larger. Its foolish to even think otherwise.
 
So they can sell a concept art of a non-existent non-implemented ship, that's years away from being in-game? I guess you have a very different definition of "same" than the rest of the world.


Another generalized meaningless statement. You seem to be armed to the teeth with those. Like firing blanks, there is no need to defend against you, because you only make noise.


...make arguments.
I have destroyed you with facts, logic, and reason(it's easy to do this to the anti SC crowd). You are now mad that you can't win this argument :)
Continue being mad at a game you dont want to play and have nothing invested in(including thinking).
 
A game will make less money if they finish and release it....The mental gymnastics some of you will go through to hate on this game
N0gUtFv.gif
 
If it’s a bad or unfinished game it won’t sell well.
This was my point earlier. Given the amount of money they've raked in I don't see any reason they'd change course and start developing anything more than images of ships and excuses.

At this point any discussions about SC feel like trying to reason this guy:

theres-no-proof-to-say-it-wasnt-aliens-therefore-it-was-aliens.jpg
 
Man I feel so bad for the people still blindly defending Roberts. It feels like listening to the little old lady defend a guy like Madoff the day he gets the cuffs put on.

Yes cloud imperium looks legit. It has to for Roberts ultimate end game move. CIG is Digital Anvil all over again. DA looked legit as well... he would give the game magazines tours, they would show off how hard at work they where and all their cool toys. It needs to appear that way... so he can at some point sell the entire thing off to a big publisher. The only difference is this time round he has NO INVESTORS to pay back.... so instead of being set for coke for a few years he should be set for life.

Really I suspect Roberts has been shopping CIG around for awhile now. His plan was I am sure to sell CIG off before to many fingers started pointing. When he sold DA the crys of vaporware where pretty loud already... but he did sucker MS. It seems to me the big publishers remember well what he did to MS and haven't bite the way Roberts expected. I have no doubt he intended to have sold CIG off for 100+ million at this point and been off for his regular 2-3 year binge of yachts and blow. (guessing but he does something for 2-3 years between scams) lol

What boggles my mind so hard is how many older gamers (35-45) year olds like myself that should well remember DA believe somehow that this time its different. (if you are interested in SC and your of that age you should remember Freelancer and the DA MS deal)
 
Take all the time you need, make the game right. Don't give in to the "I want it now" generation. It's the most ambitious game ever even attempted to be made, and its being made from scratch. There is no copy/paste going on.

This is thinking with logic and reason, so i'm sure it will upset some of you :)

Nope, because there is absolutely nothing to compare it to. Again, what game even comes close to being this large/ambitious? No Mans Sky? That game was a real hit, exactly what was promised, LOL.

I rather play a great game later, than a shit game right now. Its as easy as that.

If the game was ready, they would release it, its not. They would make 3456324564536734567x more money than they do right now. Which is something im sure they would love to do.....
If shit is broken, fix it BEFORE releasing it(I know, more crazy talk).

"Nothing misguided about the truth, unless you just dont want to believe it."

What evidence do you have that the game wont come out?

Let me take a guess at your reply:

"It isnt out yet and games should be made at the snap of the finger"

Is it backwards day today?

They can sell ship upgrades the exact same way, and sell the finished game...which will in turn make them a billion times more money. Releasing the game doesn't mean people aren't gonna buy ships anymore....its the exact opposite.

And to think that the game wouldn't sell well because of how many backers it already has..... I dont even...

You can get any ship you want in the game with money or time.

And people will be much MORE likely to buy ships since they have a completed game to play, not to mention the mountain of new players it will bring.

The amount of people who will buy a finished game will be much larger than the current amount of backers...much larger. Its foolish to even think otherwise.

A game will make less money if they finish and release it....The mental gymnastics some of you will go through to hate on this game
N0gUtFv.gif

Wrong on all counts.

What they are selling is a DREAM. And you know, the idea of a dream is priceless. Which is why people keep throwing money at them. The IDEA is brilliant. It simply is. But no project has ever been successful if done this way. You INVEST YOUR MONEY and then reap the benefits by selling to the public IF YOUR SHIT WAS GOOD. Happens the same with work or anything, really. Or you go to your boss and ask for 5 year's worth of wage? No, you get paid as you do your job. If you were doing a house, you pay it as they work, not everything upfront.

And you do it because you need an INCENTIVE to do your job. I'd say that CI has, AT LEAST, 50% of the total revenue they could ever get with their game. Already. So why would they bother releasing some shit that won't work? They are far more profitable selling ships because of the DREAM rather than finishing the game and selling stuff for something that doesn't work. Let alone the fact that CI don't even know what they want to release at this moment. Their scope changes every couple of months, which means that their budget changes along and, you know, money isn't infinite. They will run out of money in less than 2 years and then BAM. Nothing for nobody.

In any case, and this for certain, should the game ever be finished it would be so massive that it will be plagued by bugs. Top to bottom.



This was my point earlier. Given the amount of money they've raked in I don't see any reason they'd change course and start developing anything more than images of ships and excuses.

At this point any discussions about SC feel like trying to reason this guy:

theres-no-proof-to-say-it-wasnt-aliens-therefore-it-was-aliens.jpg

Man I feel so bad for the people still blindly defending Roberts. It feels like listening to the little old lady defend a guy like Madoff the day he gets the cuffs put on.

Yes cloud imperium looks legit. It has to for Roberts ultimate end game move. CIG is Digital Anvil all over again. DA looked legit as well... he would give the game magazines tours, they would show off how hard at work they where and all their cool toys. It needs to appear that way... so he can at some point sell the entire thing off to a big publisher. The only difference is this time round he has NO INVESTORS to pay back.... so instead of being set for coke for a few years he should be set for life.

Really I suspect Roberts has been shopping CIG around for awhile now. His plan was I am sure to sell CIG off before to many fingers started pointing. When he sold DA the crys of vaporware where pretty loud already... but he did sucker MS. It seems to me the big publishers remember well what he did to MS and haven't bite the way Roberts expected. I have no doubt he intended to have sold CIG off for 100+ million at this point and been off for his regular 2-3 year binge of yachts and blow. (guessing but he does something for 2-3 years between scams) lol

What boggles my mind so hard is how many older gamers (35-45) year olds like myself that should well remember DA believe somehow that this time its different. (if you are interested in SC and your of that age you should remember Freelancer and the DA MS deal)

You don't need to even know what happend to DA to know that this will blow. And it will blow because you NEVER, EVER, EVER, pay anybody upfront for a project that he might or might not finish. Even less when the project keeps getting bigger by the get-go. No. In this age and era you BUDGET something and you pay it in installments as shit gets done, and everything goes according to some guidelines. Nothing would ever be finished if you were changing everything whenever you felt like that.

This projects lacks leadership. And to that I mean pragmatical leadership. Dates. Schedules. Dates. Schedules. Not "hey, this that we invested 3 months we are scraping because potato". "We are adding yet another ship to the game. Yes. We know. There is nowhere to fly them but... keep buying them, suckers!".

All in all, this is the biggest scam the gaming industry has ever seen. It will never be finished. And no investor will ever want it simply because you something between 1M and 2M of pre-sold games. So, even if you were to finish, who would pay for it, even if it worked? Those that want it already forked the money... and yet, what is the point of such a huge game? You will need to have thousands of people per server on board.

And it is a pc-only game.
 
This projects lacks leadership. And to that I mean pragmatical leadership. Dates. Schedules. Dates. Schedules. Not "hey, this that we invested 3 months we are scraping because potato". "We are adding yet another ship to the game. Yes. We know. There is nowhere to fly them but... keep buying them, suckers!".

Project leadership is what Roberts has always needed. His only ever real out right success was Wing Commander. What he had on that project was actual leadership... in the form of Warren Spector. Even that project was close to going over budget... the whole "Thanks for playing" msg that prints when you exit the game was to cover a Mem manager error. Over the years Spector has said... Roberts was a great idea guy, I let him do that... I steered the project and got it done. (including telling roberts when he had to forget X or Y idea and save it for the next WC game lol)

I believe roberts started out as just a dreamer with no real management chops. Over the years though it seems to me he has become a full on scammer. DA imo was where he shifted from simple dreamer pitch man, to sleeze ball.
 
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I have destroyed you with facts, logic, and reason(it's easy to do this to the anti SC crowd). You are now mad that you can't win this argument :)
Continue being mad at a game you dont want to play and have nothing invested in(including thinking).
Oh boy, you are precious.

So far I count

Facts : none

Reason : 1 (that the market should be larger on release)

Logic : none

Assumptions: all of them
 
The current build of SC, 2.6.3, is garbage and hasn't been updated significantly since 2.0 appeared in 2015 (no, shopping and Star Marine aren't "significant"). 3.0 promises to be equally buggy as well as missing most of the features that were originally scheduled and demonstrated "live" by Roberts over a year ago, when or if it finally appears, despite him claiming it would be in players' hands in 2016. Their funding counter, even if it's accurate, reports a year-on-year decrease in funding (as you'd expect for a crowdfunded project), while the workforce still numbers in the hundreds and their yearly burn rate is in the tens of millions. It's not hard to extrapolate the amount that still needs to be done, the current rate of progress, the income and expenditure and conclude that the future's not all that bright. Roberts himself has long since switched to the narrative of delivering a "minimum viable product", and increasingly talks about "early access" and how players are already playing Star Citizen. There is no magic, secret build that they're going to suddenly reveal. Strip away all the wishful thinking and speculation and, basically, what you see is what you get. And it's not pretty. The "they'll release it when it's ready" and "they're making sure it's done right" arguments are hilarious given the laughable quality of what they've put in players' hands so far, or if you watched the disastrous Gamescom '17 presentation.
 
The tablet companion goal was at $5,000,000 and indeed is still an item to come

Shouldn't a feature that was promised for the release 3 years ago be done? Shouldn't new features come AFTER you've gotten the original stuff done? I loved WC. I had great hopes for this game (but I don't pre-order games, so I sure as hell won't fund the development of one), but I can all but guarantee you that it won't be out 3 years from now. Year after year I read how it's coming and every year it's wait till next year.

It's your money so if you're happy with a never ending Alpha, cool, but we see the same defenders every year and we see no sign of release. If I put money in this and I could get a refund, I'd get it now before it's too late.
 
Oh boy, you are precious.

So far I count

Facts : none

Reason : 1 (that the market should be larger on release)

Logic : none

Assumptions: all of them
He echoes the progress of Star Citizen.
Nothing of substance and plenty of bs.
lol
 
A game will make less money if they finish and release it....The mental gymnastics some of you will go through to hate on this game
N0gUtFv.gif

Given how much they have backing them already, I don't know that they have many people left to sell to.
 
And it is a pc-only game.

This.

So many of these SC cultists fail to realize this simple fact. I've been on team PCmasterrace for 20 years or so now, but know that PC sales still don't mean much compared to console sales.

Also, what proof is there that millions of gamers will purchase this game once created? I have zero desire to own this game when there are already numerous beautiful space sims available. I've watched them being played, and they're simply not for me. What totally new and immersive gaming experience will SC in its final form bring to the table that doesn't exist already? I'm not talking about avatar gimmicks or customized space ships, but actual gameplay. I get that it's going to "EPIC" and "INFINITE" but that doesn't mean shit to me and won't mean shit to anyone else in five years when this game still hasn't been released.
 
The entire model is paying for things you have not been recieved. Unless you count JPG images of ships people have spent thousands on. Perhaps one day they will be in an actual working game. The issue is at this point the game has taken not just a lot longer then it should have.... it has taken a THIS IS CLEARLY a scam longer time. :)

Really I have typed it I don't know 1001 times by now. Chris Roberts is not a legendary game publisher in the way people think. He is legendary in the business alright... legendary for being a joke, the guy every company stays away from cause he will burn though cash and produce little to nothing.

Wing Commander was his first gig when he was like 19. It wasn't WC because Roberts made it great... it was great because it was produced by actual real to goodness actual legendary game developer Warren Spector (WC, Ultima Underworld, System Shock, Thief, Deus Ex... the guy writes game development curriculum for universities) To the Roberts story though WC wouldn't have ever happened without Spector.... the WC Origin let Roberts make almost put them under, Roberts went so far over budget that they where worried paychecks where going to bounce. The last WC got pushed out the door when the Origin owners basically told Roberts ship it this week or next week your entire staffs pay checks are going to bounce and that will be it.

After that Roberts got his name shoved on a few projects that he outsourced but retained "producer" credit on. Then he founded Digital Anvil... worked for years on investor money on a game that never got finished. He suckered MS into buying Digital Anvil as they believed they where basically buying Free Lancer and would have a game to ship in a matter of months. The deal was done when they realised next to nothing was done on the game.... they released free lancer 3 years later.

Then Roberts went on to making movies... he has been kicked out of that industry as well. He burned though TONS of investor money making movies that should have cost a few million for 50+ million. That finally ended when Kevin Costner put the nail in his movie carer winning a multi million dollar law suit against roberts... which boils down to Roberts lied through his teeth to Costner for a long time. Had him write a script block time attract other big name actors to the project... all while Roberts was raising investor funds and Fing them over.

After that list long list of a carer of fraud. Roberts shows back up a few years later talking about wanting to make a BIG EPIC space game... but no investors believe in those games anymore (which is 100% BS they don't believe in Roberts anymore). So he spins this crowd funding page and makes videos where he claims to have investors waiting on the crowd funding goals. If he can just prove there is a market they will sweep in and give him the $ he needs to finish his dream game.

Now here we are 7 years after that... NO investors. 101 "stretch" crowd funding goals. Every game/Fraudster trick in the book to part people from their cash. And what he has to show is NO WHERE AT ALL close to a 200 million dollar game, its not even close to a 20 million dollar production. He hasn't developed some fantastic new Tech Engine... he is using Cry for 3d and Amazon for network. 99% of the art is concept art used to sell funding packages.

For property based games like star trek or star wars or battlestar ect.... the rights holders will often shop a game idea around to multiple studios to see who can make what they want with the budget they have. If SC was pitched in the same way... I have no doubt there would be multiple studios that would bid a finished project price for around 50-75 million... and a 2-3 year time table. Yes I know some games take 5-6 years to develop... sure but those games involve development of new engines ect. For a game that uses 3rd party engines.... you shave 2-3 years off dev time.

OK... this feels like my thousandth Roberts is a scammer post. Really though this entire SC/Roberts thing drives me insane. Crowd Funding could be a great way for people to support great indie game development. But Roberts is putting a big greasy stain on it.



I dont know where you have been over the last several years , but pc gaming had pretty much stagnated to the point where we was getting nothing more than rehashed battlefield call of duty and wow clones over and over gain .

then crowd funding entered the scene and let the players choose what they wanted published . while you sit there and state that space sims were not dead, they were. no major publisher was putting any money into space sims. and only 4 or 5 space rts games were being made. so yeah space sims were dead.

with crowd funding more and more players started putting money into games they wanted to play, one of these genres was the space sim.

along came chris roberts (who you despise obviously) selling a vision for a epic space sim and guess what its pc only . this was done all around the time when the pc is dead mantra was being sung from the gaming press and online media.

so chris came out swinging with a vision of a proper pc game doing what pc games should be doing pushing the envelope .... Guess what? he hit a home run, the pc gamers loved him for it, and fully backed his vision, because the ideology behind star citizen is what pc gamers want in a modern pc game.


Yeah, you can sit there and type away on how ol chris roberts Victimized poor ol Microsoft into buying digital anvil ... but its not going to play on any sympathetic ears. Microsoft has done their share of damage through out the pc gaming industry shutting down studios, destroying visions, and disenfranchising gaming communities with their mislead and baffling vision for the industry.

You can further try and back it up on how movie investors was also taken in by him but thats not gonna fly as these entities were not some doe eyed tenderfoots , dont try and make the entertainment industry investors out as some unknowing victim these people are well aware of the risks involved in backing projects, they do so willingly and knowingly.

While chris roberts may be a dreamer its people like him that we need to push the envelope, to dream big, and create new IPs because there is very few in this industry, hell economy even, who are allowed to dream. Fewer yet empowered to even attempt to create their dreams.

You can stand your hate box and preach all you want because, I DONT CARE if star citizen does or does not ever get made. I believe in the dreamers and the content creators, i want new and original stuff that pushes the envelope and brings new experiences to me. I will back those who present them , for as far as i am concerned star citizen has already accomplished more than most published games of this time.

You can willfully ignore that statement all you want, but star citizen is more than just a game to some it is an idea that proves the industry wrong. while some are ok with call of duty 15, battleshmuck 8, and i wanna be a wow 2. and others would rather crucify people with dreams and place upon alters tyrants with their spread sheets and draconian pragmatics.

Star citizen has demonstrated there is a desire for more, and that there is money to be made for those, up to meeting that challenge. THIS is why star citizen is a success, because it proved the haters and the industry wrong . and this is why we keep getting all the hate pieces and needless over analyzing of robert's past to support erroneous accusations and to try and support terrible

arguments that some how Microsoft was a victim in a game studio purchase. because these people have to keep reaching further and further for items that they can pervert into lies in hopes that they can crash and destroy more peoples dreams.

Thats what this all boils down to, is dreams.... because at its simplest form, this is nothing more than a kid playing in a sand box building his castle (star citizens backers) and the hate filled bully coming to kick it over. (star citizen haters) . it always surprises me how much hate there is in this world.
 
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