The End Of Work?

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No need to wait for the future, AI and the machines are replacing us all as we speak.

Welcome to the era of AI-human hybrid intelligence, where people and artificial intelligence systems work together seamlessly. Picture the scene from the 1986 movie “Aliens,” where Sigourney Weaver slips into a humanoid, semi-robotic weight-lifting unit to fight the alien queen — that’s about where we are today.
 
I just hope they're able to transplant my brain into a microchip - I'm ready to join the Robot revolution and leave humanity behind.
 
The second industrial revolution is in full swing...this one isn't kind to people with low IQ.
 
Welcome to the era of AI-human hybrid intelligence, where people and artificial intelligence systems work together seamlessly. Picture the scene from the 1986 movie "Aliens," where Sigourney Weaver slips into a humanoid, semi-robotic weight-lifting unit to fight the alien queen — that’s about where we are today
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Still waiting for starships like what we saw in Aliens ;)
 
My backup plan is to start my own business. I'll finance a bunch of these robots to do the work.
 
These guys use a glorified fork-lift to trumpet in the future? It was just a fork-lift, had legs instead of wheels, wow.
 
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But seriously, this is absolutely the direction we should be moving. Humans have the ability to not spend all their life doing menial work...people should only have to do what they WANT to do. People will still be productive.

Even the people that you accuse of being lazy today....really they are just lazy because they are being held back by the amount of money they have. They can't do what they want to do.
 
westrock2000 said:
But seriously, this is absolutely the direction we should be moving. Humans have the ability to not spend all their life doing menial work...people should only have to do what they WANT to do. People will still be productive.

Even the people that you accuse of being lazy today....really they are just lazy because they are being held back by the amount of money they have. They can't do what they want to do.
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Until most production and service jobs are replaced by 100% automation (robots growing food, cutting lumber, building houses, cooking food, etc.) there will always be a need for menial work.

As for the lazy, that's just how some people are.
How many people would stop working if someone would provide enough money so they could keep their current life style? My guess is the majority.
 
These levels of automation just allow humans to be more efficient (not replace humans completely) ... if they are combined with new human labor intensive activities (space colonies, sea colonies, etc) then they help free up resources that can be better used elsewhere
 
westrock2000 said:
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But seriously, this is absolutely the direction we should be moving. Humans have the ability to not spend all their life doing menial work...people should only have to do what they WANT to do. People will still be productive.

Even the people that you accuse of being lazy today....really they are just lazy because they are being held back by the amount of money they have. They can't do what they want to do.
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I don't agree with this at all. I think you just buy into their excuses for being lazy.
 
nutzo said:
Until most production and service jobs are replaced by 100% automation (robots growing food, cutting lumber, building houses, cooking food, etc.) there will always be a need for menial work.

As for the lazy, that's just how some people are.
How many people would stop working if someone would provide enough money so they could keep their current life style? My guess is the majority.
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I would. I would quit now if my wife would let me. I have enough, for me, but not for her it seems.

I would stay home and play computer games until I got sick of playing them, then I would just watch movies, then I'd go back to playing games. If I had more money I might do more, something more worthwhile like a sport. Or perhaps if you gave me enough money so I could start a business and be the boss, maybe I would start the business of my dreams. Give me some more money and I'll just own the business and let someone else manage it. I want some more game time, running a business is work you know. OK, I can hold board meetings via telecom, I don't need to go to those anymore, I hired a CEO for that.

If you give me enough money, how much work am I going to do again?

Maybe I'll dress better, if I leave the house :rolleyes:
 
in a utopia where all needs are met, there will still be jobs because of greed and vanity.

if everyone is on the same economic footing, that alone will motivate some to work just for status.
 
I tend to agree. Some will work no matter what, it's just how they define self worth.

Others just don't. Self worth has no value for them. Some are motivated by experiences, adrenaline addicts will jump until they make their last jump.

We are all a little different and we value things differently. That's why those who can't understand or accept another person's idea of value tend to cause such problems.

A Father who can't accept that his son doesn't want to be King.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsKDg7Y28D8
 
Trepidati0n said:
The second industrial revolution is in full swing...this one isn't kind to people with low IQ.
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I think you might be wrong about that. Despite all the efficiency adding tech we have had, jobs have still increased. The problem is that the whole spend, borrow, tax loop of government requires an ever growing populace or the government to balance the math in that loop. The second industrial revolution is breaking the ponzi scheme approach. We are adding population, but we aren't adding population that generates significant income or spending compared to before they arrived. That's going to cause all sorts of problems that can catch you up in them, high IQ or not. It's not going to magically generate a meritocracy with equal opportunity.
 
What exactly means to be lazy? We tend to deify the concept of work, the way we presume is right, and judge all of our actions, or lack of actions, based on how closely one follows it or not.

If one is not working but has hobbies, likes to run or to paint or to cook or to just enjoy living, he/she is lazy? And if that man or woman spends a good 8-9 hours per day selling e.g. shoes? Then it is ok?

I completely understand how in the world we live in one must work in order to eat and survive. But how many actually enjoy what they do? How many are genuinely interested in their work, take pleasure in doing it?

I don't know. My bets are on "a few" though. A minority.

Work in our era is not the way to show you are not lazy. It is only (in most cases) a burden we are obligated to carry for a depressingly long part of our lives, until we are too old to give any more. Until we are useless.

No originality, no thrill, no happiness, no fulfillment. Only repetitive boring tasks that suck our lives away. This is work for the lot. For all I know any kind of AI or whatever else can have it. Fine by me.
 
It goes without saying, but work sucks, and humanity would be better off if we didn't force it on everyone in the way that we do. Clearly, it doesn't work, and leaves us with a system where some people do what they want, and others demean them because they are secretly sick of their own lives.

I love when people freak out about other people working... It only shows me how much they hate what they are doing. I just watch people like that work until they are overcome with it... hahaha
 
If anything, this revolution may end up being "kindest" to those of lower IQ. There will be a huge gap - no skill, very manual labor and service industry stuff, and mega-CEOs. There will be a huge, empty middle.

We're already seeing it now. The rich and the poor now outnumber the middle-class in America, and the hollowing out continues.
 
Kindest?! Wuuuut. Without a strong social safety net being out of work, for whatever reason, means being poor as hell which in the US means having a lousy life often even if you can get some sort of welfare. Lots can't and end up on the street which is a pretty bad place to be.

The prevalent attitude is "well they must be lazy if they can't get a job therefore they should suffer" which is BS now and will be even more BS in a future where most of the labor is automated away. Heck even if "only" a large minority of the labor was automated away permanently, say 20-30%, it'd be pretty awful. You'd be looking at permanent Great Depression levels of unemployment.

Generally countries that have such high levels of unemployment, as well as the associated economic disparity that goes with it, tend to have high levels of social and political unrest too.
 
You guys are missing the silver lining in all of this. Automatons means we can now think about terraforming distant worlds. That's where all the poor people will eventually end up working in the future anyway.
 
Can't tell if you're serious or not but just in case: You're gonna need Star Trek tech to terraform worlds even over long (thousands of years) periods of time.

The poor won't be working or living there either. Costs too much energy to ship a large portion of the Earth's population off planet. If anything if things got to that point if we didn't also have a Star Trek commie-esque society and economy the rich would just make murder bots to kill all the poor.

Well not all of them. They'd probably keep a few alive as rape slaves I guess.
 
AI is a scam. Along with the silicon wall we're going to run into the next few decades, it'll mean tech progress is going to slow way down unless we can pick up the slack in the human intelligence department. The idea that we can all sit back and relax while machines of our own creation, much smarter and more efficient than us yet completely subservient, do the work is a medieval fantasy.
 
The big problem with automation right now isn't processing power (which is what would be effected by the inability to shrink the chips further), its the software and to some extent the cost of high precision moderate to high strength motors.

The software is improving steadily. We don't need strong or even mediocre AI's, just decent to good PI, for better bots. And the motors are also getting better all the time. Its a given at this point that automation is going to replace a decent hunk of the workers.

What isn't clear is if society will allow strong social safety nets to be formed in order to take care of the people who can't find work anymore. So far its looking like it'll be a no. Of course historically the last time the US faced anything like the social/economic conditions that massive automation could cause the US did all sorts of make work programs (WPA) to help support society + created SS.
 
TwistedAegis said:
If anything, this revolution may end up being "kindest" to those of lower IQ. There will be a huge gap - no skill, very manual labor and service industry stuff, and mega-CEOs. There will be a huge, empty middle.

We're already seeing it now. The rich and the poor now outnumber the middle-class in America, and the hollowing out continues.
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They can console themselves with air conditioning, flat screen tvs, smart phones and unlimited tax free produce.

*snivel*
 
While there certainly are a few who abuse the system that is hardly the norm and most everyone on welfare doesn't live up to the "welfare queen" myth that was invented by Reagan and perpetuated since.

Ultimately the crabs-in-a-bucket mind set of those who insist on perpetuating the "welfare queen" myth is without empathy or even a shred of reasonableness even today and in a future of widespread automation and permanent unemployment will be flat out destructive.
 
I've always wondered, if the working class are made jobless by robots, who's going to be purchasing all the product that these robots produce?

It seem to me that as robots make people jobless, that in turn will eventually send companies out of business as the economy crashes.
 
Yup. It'd eventually destroy the consumer economy which would crash the rest of the economy. That is part of the reason why I keep making comparisons to the Great Depression.
 
mesyn191 said:
Yup. It'd eventually destroy the consumer economy which would crash the rest of the economy. That is part of the reason why I keep making comparisons to the Great Depression.
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Fear of the end of jobs is an irrational fear of the unknown.

Innovation always destroys some jobs.

Humans will simply be moved to better jobs over time.

How many people still till their own soil?
 
mesyn191 said:
Kindest?! Wuuuut. Without a strong social safety net being out of work, for whatever reason, means being poor as hell which in the US means having a lousy life often even if you can get some sort of welfare. Lots can't and end up on the street which is a pretty bad place to be.

The prevalent attitude is "well they must be lazy if they can't get a job therefore they should suffer" which is BS now and will be even more BS in a future where most of the labor is automated away. Heck even if "only" a large minority of the labor was automated away permanently, say 20-30%, it'd be pretty awful. You'd be looking at permanent Great Depression levels of unemployment.

Generally countries that have such high levels of unemployment, as well as the associated economic disparity that goes with it, tend to have high levels of social and political unrest too.
Click to expand...

Kindest was in quotes, more sarcastic referring to the quote that this wouldn't be kind to those with low IQs, in the context that they may be some of the few that actually have jobs.

As for simply, "People will move to better jobs" I don't know. Human IQ isn't advancing at the rate that AI is advancing to take said jobs. Not everyone can be a rocket scientist. And without some new economic paradigm, we're setting ourselves up to move back to the days of feudalism, with a few nobles and 95% of the people in poverty as serfs.
 
mesyn191 said:
The big problem with automation right now isn't processing power (which is what would be effected by the inability to shrink the chips further), its the software and to some extent the cost of high precision moderate to high strength motors.

The software is improving steadily. We don't need strong or even mediocre AI's, just decent to good PI, for better bots. And the motors are also getting better all the time. Its a given at this point that automation is going to replace a decent hunk of the workers.

What isn't clear is if society will allow strong social safety nets to be formed in order to take care of the people who can't find work anymore. So far its looking like it'll be a no. Of course historically the last time the US faced anything like the social/economic conditions that massive automation could cause the US did all sorts of make work programs (WPA) to help support society + created SS.
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Yea well, Social Security was another bust wasn't it? That's why we need all the new immigrants, to float SS for a couple more decades.
 
Hell, 20 Americans now have more wealth than the bottom 50%, over 165 million people. Extrapolate that out worldwide, they probably have more wealth in their hands than a billion people, a kind of disparity even the pharaohs couldn't contemplate.
 
aardvark sandwich said:
Fear of the end of jobs is an irrational fear of the unknown.

Innovation always destroys some jobs.

Humans will simply be moved to better jobs over time.

How many people still till their own soil?
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I have to agree. So many programs and grants out there to help fund entrepreneurs, but being a starter takes so go, not everyone it seems is cut out for it.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Hell, 20 Americans now have more wealth than the bottom 50%, over 165 million people. Extrapolate that out worldwide, they probably have more wealth in their hands than a billion people, a kind of disparity even the pharaohs couldn't contemplate.
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So?

As long as the bottom half have their needs met what does it matter the excesses of a few?

It would seem the human condition has enough room for it. Nobody running around cutting of people's heads because they suggested cake.
 
Because concentrated wealth and power whether it is in a government, corporation, or natural person is corrupting to a democracy.

And this is also occurring at the same time as the shrinking of the middle class; this isn't the pie simply growing bigger, but more of the pie apportioned to the very top.
 
I got my MTV, my Challenger, my girl, my guns and my games :D

I didn't do anything that special to get there except listen to my old lady about saving money and staying out of debt. I worked, I stayed current, I mean 55 year old guys in IT ain't that uncommon.

I got kids that look like they have every opportunity to pull off something similar.

Maybe I am just so terribly lucky that I can't see my life as something that is a fluke. I didn't work that terribly hard for it. Mostly I avoided bad decisions the best I can tell, that and not really too many bad breaks. No real medical struggles. I'm pretty sure my old man is squandering my inheritance on a floosie and the casinos but I never allowed my future to rest on such a thing, He earned his, he can spend it however he want's and I'll be happy with anything he chooses to leave me.

I know life doesn't treat people fairly, actually fair doesn't exist at all. But it's hard for me to imagine that for the most part others can't pull off what my wife and I have.

Is that something you can see?
 
aardvark sandwich said:
Fear of the end of jobs is an irrational fear of the unknown.
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Nope. I don't have a problem with the end of jobs. What I have a problem with is the potential response that society might have to it. Societies and govts. do get some stuff wrong and historically it was normal for the needs and wants of the poor to be ignored by the privileged. There really isn't any reason to optimistic unfortunately.

TwistedAegis said:
Kindest was in quotes, more sarcastic
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OK sorry its the internet and I have actually had people be serious about that stuff. Its really hard for me to tell who is being sarcastic anymore.

I agree with the rest of your post. Its why I think strong social safety nets are must and why there'll be a ton of people permanently unemployed: not everyone can be a scientist or engineer or artist or skilled worker of some sort. Alot of people are just mediocre, not bad, but not good. If they can't get work they can't get money and are fucked as things are now.
lcpiper said:
Yea well, Social Security was another bust wasn't it? That's why we need all the new immigrants
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SS hasn't busted and won't pretty much ever if they just eliminate the wage based cap. Money quote:
If all earnings were subject to the payroll tax, but the base was retained for benefit calculations, the Social Security Trust Funds would remain solvent for the next 75 year
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Immigration is a good idea from a purely classical economic standpoint, its not really needed for SS, but I'm not sure if its a good thing if much of the low to non-skilled jobs end up automated away and we don't have strong social safety nets in place.
lcpiper said:
I didn't do anything that special to get there except listen to my old lady about saving money and staying out of debt. I worked, I stayed current, I mean 55 year old guys in IT ain't that uncommon. Maybe I am just so terribly lucky that I can't see my life as something that is a fluke. I didn't work that terribly hard for it.
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You're the epitome of this meme:
ntK8TcR.jpg
 
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