The design error of the Corsair 900D

R

Really

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The 900D did not accomplish the most important thing it was supposed to accomplish.

- "Cold box" configuration down below, separated from the rest of the case
- Supports two quad-radiators down below, on opposite sides of the case.

That's all you need.

The designers of the 900D did not understand how this works.
 
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different type of cases.


my only fault with the case is its hard to secure 680 classifieds.
 
Different type of cases in what way? Besides the obvious price difference.

Corsair could have easily designed the 900D that way if they had known how it works.

There's enough space, they just didn't get how it works.
 
I'm not sure but check out his other post just today....just sayin:confused:
 
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MouseTrap said:
I'm not sure but check out his post just today....just sayin???
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Okay, from what I can tell he's claiming that the fact that there's no "separation plate" between the main chamber and the radiator/PSU chamber is a flaw in design.

I disagree. We've tested prototypes in both configurations and seen absolutely no performance difference. Adding that plate is not a design "flaw", it's a design choice. It was done intentionally to make tubing, cable routing, and installation easier.

In all testing we've done we've seen absolutely no performance difference. That's not to say that somebody else's configuration won't - I'm sure with enough practice somebody could find a way to show that the separation plate makes a performance difference - but we haven't been able to confirm that in the lab.

Removing the separation plate that was there on the 800D had one benefit - it reduced cost so the case could come to market a bit cheaper. It also wasn't needed for structural rigidity, and since we saw no performance difference, there was no reason to put it in the final product.

Obviously some people are going to be upset by that - but some people are going to be upset by any decision I make, so I have to go for the mass appeal.

I think hitting $349 was much more important than the separation plate - if you disagree, please feel free to buy another product or buy a 900D and mod it.

But don't insult us by claiming we "don't know how it works", that's kind of silly.
 
Corsair does not actually know.

This is clearly indicated by redbeard's response, because he didn't even touch on the issue or mention the configuration he's unaware of. He only referred to "testing". It's really easy to say you "tested" something, but a little bit harder to show that what you tested was meaningful. The testing Corsair actually did was completely irrelevant, because they ran a single radiator down below. This is pretty obvious, just look at the design of the case ...

Where's the support for the dual quad radiators down below? They tested something the case doesn't even support?

If they actually knew how it works, his post would have been quite different.

You have dual quad radiators, one on each side, and you create a wind tunnel down the center. Both sides of the case suck cool air in. The wind tunnel blows out the back. The warmed air is not released into the upper chamber. It's a cool chamber, with air moving in one direction. This is how it works.

In the other design, you create a cross-tunnel, with radiator fans both moving air in the same direction. The design giving better cooling performance depends on the width of the base. The front of the case can have a fan too, to accelerate removal of the hot air.

They were supposed to deliver a case with support for dual quad rads with 8 or 16 fans and a wind tunnel. That's the killer-app.

Really,
- Really
 
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Next you can try to say to modify the case or something. Come on.

You're the builder! You were supposed to deliver a case that's READY for the rads. That's the product!

It's the same way the 800D didn't have enough room for radiators up above with fans on each side.
You think Corsair knew what they were doing on that case either?

This is how companies don't get it, and then don't get it on another release, and then don't get it yet again.

If I was working there I would never have allowed the 900D out the door. You gotta be a better inventor.

Really,
- Really
 
The case was never designed for dual quad radiators on the bottom. The case was designed with the traditional PSU on the bottom with the radiator on the roof. In the case of the 900D, there was extra room to add an additional 480 on the bottom.

Also, push/pull on the top of the 800D depends on which radiator you're talking about. They cannot arbitrarily make a case larger or smaller to suit every single little scenario.
 
Right, too traditional, not the invention.

If you use the thing I described for the 1000D, send it to me for testing and I'll make sure you didn't screw it up again.

I want a free case out of it.

By the way, you'll discover the temps are lower.

Really,
- Really
 
Just to be clear, you're whining about a lack of features on the 900D that were never advertised, hinted at or promised to begin with. That's fine and all people love to whine, but it would help if next time you state that in the OP rather than trying to argue it's some sort of design flaw.
 
All I'm seeing is a bunch of pissing and moaning. Its simple...if you don't like it, don't buy it. They aren't forcing you to buy it are they? Yeah I didn't think so.

And I also agree with it never being able to support dual 480s ON THE BOTTOM. It can support a 480 and 240 at the bottom because the PSU still has to go down there.

You're saying their testing is wrong but you don't even know what they actually did, and where is your accredited proven method of testing Mr. Know-It-All? Just saying "blah blah blah I'll make sure its tested right" is a bunch of meaningless garbage.
 
The thing that you are forgetting in Georges response is that they are trying to create a case at a price point that they feel they can live with. With the amount of research and development that goes into their cases they have to be able to make a profit at the end of the day. If you gave him a price point of $500 - $600 dollars like Case Labs i am sure you would see something very different. Corsair is just trying to check as many boxes as they can within the price point they set.
 
Redbeard said:
Okay, from what I can tell he's claiming that the fact that there's no "separation plate" between the main chamber and the radiator/PSU chamber is a flaw in design.

I disagree. We've tested prototypes in both configurations and seen absolutely no performance difference. Adding that plate is not a design "flaw", it's a design choice. It was done intentionally to make tubing, cable routing, and installation easier.

In all testing we've done we've seen absolutely no performance difference. That's not to say that somebody else's configuration won't - I'm sure with enough practice somebody could find a way to show that the separation plate makes a performance difference - but we haven't been able to confirm that in the lab.

Removing the separation plate that was there on the 800D had one benefit - it reduced cost so the case could come to market a bit cheaper. It also wasn't needed for structural rigidity, and since we saw no performance difference, there was no reason to put it in the final product.

Obviously some people are going to be upset by that - but some people are going to be upset by any decision I make, so I have to go for the mass appeal.

I think hitting $349 was much more important than the separation plate - if you disagree, please feel free to buy another product or buy a 900D and mod it.

But don't insult us by claiming we "don't know how it works", that's kind of silly.
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Where is the +1 ... :)
 
just buy a caselabs or littledevil if thats what you want... Corsair can't release a product for everyone, they go for the masses.
 
Really said:
Next you can try to say to modify the case or something. Come on.

You're the builder! You were supposed to deliver a case that's READY for the rads. That's the product!

It's the same way the 800D didn't have enough room for radiators up above with fans on each side.
You think Corsair knew what they were doing on that case either?

This is how companies don't get it, and then don't get it on another release, and then don't get it yet again.

If I was working there I would never have allowed the 900D out the door. You gotta be a better inventor.

Really,
- Really
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The 800D hit the market as one of the first cases in the world with room for a triple radiator, stock, without modding. It also had the best cable routing in the world at the time, and its push-button side panel release was one-of-a kind.

It wasn't perfect, of course, as we had competitors come out with similar features over the next few years.

That being said, the 900D was designed to fit two 480/420mm radiators - one on top, and one on either side on the bottom with a single PSU installed. It wasn't designed to use the "wind tunnel", that you can see on other products, because we didn't spec it that way.

It's not a design flaw, it's a design choice. If you don't like that choice, that's totally cool. No case is perfect for everybody. If you absolutely love the Wind Tunnel style radiator cage, there are other solutions out there and I encourage you to buy the product that satisfies you.
 
This guy apparently lives in his own world where his idea of what the 900D is, doesn't comply with the 900D that actually exists. Sounds to me like he just wants a CaseLabs case.

Does Corsair fail because they didn't clone someone else's design? I think not. I like what they are bringing to the table with their new cases. I don't own any corsair cases at the moment, but a 900D would look good sitting in my office......

This whole thread feels like I'm feeding the trolls.....

anyways, Good Job on the cases Redbeard. I appreciate all your hard work!
 
#Grey said:
Just to be clear, you're whining about a lack of features on the 900D that were never advertised, hinted at or promised to begin with. That's fine and all people love to whine, but it would help if next time you state that in the OP rather than trying to argue it's some sort of design flaw.
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This.

DraginDime said:
Sounds to me like he just wants a CaseLabs case for the cost of a 900D.
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FTFY.
 
It's nice to see a company rep saying something to the effect of "buy what makes you happy, even if it's not from us".

The 900D's a well-reviewed case at a fairly competitive price point: it's not all things to all people. Anyone who wants exactly what they envision a case to be really needs to go through Mountain Mods/CaseLabs or any other competent custom builder — and obviously pay the requisite premium for that — as Corsair isn't doing custom designs at this time.
 
I agree with Redbeard. The 900D was designed to fit a combination of configurations in the bottom tray area.

As already mentioned, if you want those specific features for water cooling, then there are other alternatives out there. OP, you Really should establish yourself as a genuine member of the community if you expect us to take you seriously. There are better ways to get your point across without demeaning the work that went into this case. That is if you Really want to. Its up to you.
 
The sense of entitlement is strong with this one... just look at his other thread in the Intel forum.
 
I smell a troll. This is the same guy who is ripping on Logitech over in the mouse and keyboard forum. Hes just looking to stir up the crowd. Move along, nothing to see here.
 
MouseTrap said:
I'm not sure but check out his other post just today....just sayin:confused:
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Tsumi said:
The sense of entitlement is strong with this one... just look at his other thread in the Intel forum.
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jamsomito said:
I smell a troll. This is the same guy who is ripping on Logitech over in the mouse and keyboard forum. Hes just looking to stir up the crowd. Move along, nothing to see here.
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I pretty much called this one in my post above... He is just jumping around the forums trying to grab attention where he can...imo Just look at his track record in his profile. lol
 
Can't knock the Corsair cases at their price point. Very good value.

I'd love the features of a Case Labs or Mountain Mods for $350 but that's not gonna happen!
 
Why isn't this locked? OP is obvious troll, just look at his name. Also i dont think that the OP understands what a design flaw is. Go back to playing with your consoles, Really you don't belong here.
 
This is like saying "Damn you Toyota for not letting me get a V10 in my Camry!"
 
Sometimes it's better to tell what you think.

- Think about the brand-name Corsair. What a good brand name.. it's like it's from the 1960's. This is the type of company who makes wind tunnels, trust me.

- The fact that Corsair listens to users is what makes them an amazing company. They're the best of an American company, cause they're the best in the business when it comes to listening to user design feedback. That's why the D series of cases have such attention to detail! What do you think D means? All that detail comes from feedback. It's what separates them from a Chinese company that has no working system of feedback.

- When I made my post, I was speaking to the company, not an individual. I had no idea that the designer himself would show up going "!?!?!?" about my post. This is why Corsair is good, trust me.

- Corsair is lucky to have a guy like redbeard who takes this kind of pride in his work. You can tell that immediately. Whether or not he incorporated every wish of every user on every release is irrelevant, we know he's got our interests at heart.

- The price of a case is determined by the types of materials used, the amount of metals involved, the number of pieces, the complexity level of these pieces.

- A dual quad radiator cold box design can be created in a simplistic case for $200. Fractal Design could do that. The difference between a dual quad wind tunnel design and what Corsair has got currently is a *design*, not a bunch of more complex metal pieces.

- Whether you choose to have some grilles cut out to mount dual quad rads or not, is a matter of design. Supporting what users perceive as an elite feature is not far off from the 900D in terms of actual metal or complexity! It's just a matter of execution. It does not require twice as much metal, parts, and detail, trust me... The final price of production is not the issue. It's deciding how to design it.

- You think making wind flow and mounting dual radiators costs $600 dollars? Of course not.

- The people who said $600: You guys are thinking very overly simplistically: "1 thing exist that have 1 feature for price therefore anything ever with feature have that same price". That's why you guys are consumers, not case designers, cause you don't know how design works. You guys don't understand the reason for Caselabs prices. It has nothing to do with the fact that he has a user configurable open grille area in the bottom of some of the cases. It's because they're a small shop doing near-customs without mass manufacturing, and their metal-work is heavy-duty.

- Corsair *absolutely* could deliver a case with a different type of cutout design for radiator mounts, which keeps the heat out of the rest of the case, at the right price. This is not even vaguely debatable. Think about boxes and metal. It's the shape of the metal! Nobody asked Corsair to switch to solid steel.

- I don't actually care what the 900D was "specced for", because the real spec is simply the ultimate case. The 800D was the ultimate case version 1. Who would buy it now? The 900D is the ultimate case version 2. So my post is about the design error of the ultimate case, called the 900D.

- The design of version 2 is not the end of production for Corsair the company. They have a great reason to build another case in the future. Time passes and ideas improve. Think about how much they improved from the 800D to the 900D. That's a great improvement. And there can be another great improvement from the 900D to the 1000D.

- I was wrong to not speak of the 800D's innovations relative to the time frame. It's true. I really want to see things improve, that's all.

- The 900D is already obsolete. You will realize how obsolete the 900D's design is later on, just as you did about the 800D. The 900D is not the final case, trust me. Read my post later on if you need to figure out how the future works. We want dual quad rads.

- I want a dual quad radiator Corsair, not a CaseLabs or a LittleDevil. It's about the feature. I wanted the feature. I went searching for where I could find it. And Corsair is the company I like. So I'm trying to find out if Corsair can make one. I don't care about other companies. I like Corsair and I like dual quad rads. I want to ask the company that I trust (Corsair) for the feature I want. See how simple that is?

- I have no idea if Caselabs can even support what I asked for or not. I tried to purchase a case from Caselabs, they wouldn't even sell me one. I sent a list of newbie questions to them, (like hardcore n00b questions): Hi guys, I'm looking at all your options and expansions, this part I don't understand, please guide me on what to purchase, I want a wind tunnel design, I want dual quad radiators working on both sides, Does this work on your case? Can these dual fan banks actually fit on each side of the rads? Can I get a cold-box? Will it fit on the XXX case? They wouldn't tell me... Seriously. The Caselabs guy laughed at me, told me I'm a noob and I should not have one of their cases, and their cases are not right for me.

- I do know what I want though. Sadly it's not the 900D, but, a Corsair case configured for *the dream setup* would be exactly the case I want.

- Consumers would love it if Corsair actually made one of these cases: The dream setup for a good price. They'd buy.

- Corsair has great support and reps. On their forums they answer all the questions. They'll sell me the case I want, and they'll make sure I have everything I need so that I don't even need to worry about all the options and little pieces.

- The 900D is just an arbitrary design about radiator mounting, it's no actual invention about super cooling. It's based on the 800D. It's not based on an invention about cooling. That's the whole thing, Corsair can transition over into being one of those companies who's got those designs. They really can!

- They ended up with an arbitrary design because that's how things work in a company. You begin with some assumption about the basic formulation of the device. You go down a path, and then people depend on some part of that, you keep working to refine it, and then there's some dependency on a dependency, and then you gotta deliver.

- Why is it important that Corsair remains that company without those designs? Who could argue that Corsair should be the company who never does this?

- Why isn't it important that Corsair makes the leap to what users perceive as something only elite case makers can do? Corsair is not the Toyota. They are the Corsair. Corsair *is* the name for the brand who makes the great cases. They can deliver all kinds of stuff, trust me.

- My questions are too easy to answer, that's why you will see that in the future, Corsair actually does transition over to innovative super cooling designs.

- The design with the cold-box down below is not the only design, even though it's a good one.

- We want the dual quad radiators for $350. *cough* $359

- The dudes at Corsair already listened to me on this post. That's why they're an awesome company.

Send it to me for testing, I'll help.

Really,
- Really
 
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tl;dr:

I'm going to kiss some ass to make it look like I wasn't really complaining while complaining some more, because I obviously know better than the guys at Corsair.

:rolleyes:
 
You can't kiss ass to get a free case that doesn't even exist.

Those are my true thoughts.

Most people cannot understand the thought process about wanting to perfect things, cause they don't think that way.

I really want it to be perfect.

Really
 
Perfect to you is not perfect to someone else. Corsair has to make a design that fits the greatest nunber of people within a price bracket.

For example, in my view, double-stacked radiators is a horrible idea. Spread them out and they perform better.
 
Really said:
You can't kiss ass to get a free case that doesn't even exist.

Those are my true thoughts.

Most people cannot understand the thought process about wanting to perfect things, cause they don't think that way.

I really want it to be perfect.

Really
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Well what's stopping you? Want want want. No action just words. Do shit for yourself and stop expecting everyone else to bend over backwards to individually suit your wants.
 
S0m30n3 said:
Do shit for yourself
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I do a different field of work.
Corsair is the case designer.

I go to them for the case. They got em.

They've already got 1000 internal details correct.
They're way far along on the problem.
 
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Really said:
I do a different field of work.
Corsair is the case designer.

I go to them for the case. They got em.

They've already got 1000 internal details correct.
They're way far along on the problem.
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Damnit there's a 1000D I just ordered the 900D a few minutes ago...

I agree with your point of view for dual radiators, it should have been done like that, I just didn't want to fork over the money for the caselabs. I wonder how long till the 1000D will come out. Oh well, I can still use dual radiators and it will still be a decent case for the money.
 
Justintoxicated said:
Damnit there's a 1000D I just ordered the 900D a few minutes ago...

I agree with your point of view for dual radiators, it should have been done like that, I just didn't want to fork over the money for the caselabs. I wonder how long till the 1000D will come out. Oh well, I can still use dual radiators and it will still be a decent case for the money.
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Brother, you see the vision!

But we must buy the 900D so that Corsair can afford to make the real 1000D.

Important point!
The 1000D is some time away, and if we stick with their cases with our money, maybe they will make the 1000D for us.
 
Really said:
Brother, you see the vision!

But we must buy the 900D so that Corsair can afford to make the real 1000D.

Important point!
The 1000D is some time away, and if we stick with their cases with our money, maybe they will make the 1000D for us.
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I do see the vision haha, I don't think the 900D has a design error though, but it could have been made better. For example I would rather buy a 2x560 instead of a 2x480.

When I first build this rig I will likely be re-using my thermochill PA 120.3 anyways (that is assuming that I can figure out a way to mount it. I don't see my needs exceeding this case anytime soon, but I'm all about overkill 2x560 radiators :)

When I opened the thread I thought it was going to be about the side supports that get in the way of the video card :p That IMO is more of a design flaw, but I think I can live with it.
 
What the hell hardware are you guys putting in these cases that needs dual 480 or 560 rads :confused:
 
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