The BBC Announces Doctor Who’s Thirteenth Doctor

madcap magician

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The BBC is well known for pushing the LGBT agenda in numerous tv shows and in the process, pandering to ~10% of the population quite frequently.
 

percydaman

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People will get offended at anything. Including a female doctor. The irony is delicious.

It's a 'mostly' shit show. Who fucking cares if it's a female doctor. As long as they don't try and ram it down our throat, I'm fine with it.
 

Dayaks

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Clara was too much "the impossible girl", the Dr's assistant is meant to be that ... Assistant, not their own diety. Great actress & whether the producers played upto that to give her a more significant role... Or with Amy Pond giving birth to the Dr's assassin. Bill was just Bill, an assistant

Amy and Clara were actually my favorites. Especially Amy.

Looking forward the female doctor. I think.
 

ecktt

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Is every actor in Broadchurch going to be in doctor who??? jj

She is an excellent actor but then again so is Capaldi. What people refer to, as crap, is just what the Whoniverse is. Many eps are campy, some are epic and yet all seem to flow with the underlying arch. Moffat had a brilliant run but clearly has run out of ideas. Capaldi had to suffer as a result, especially being saddled with Jenna Coleman who should have remaind the plot device Clara Oswald. Moffat should have left with Matt Smith and they would have been known as greatest arch ever. As always I will hate the new doctor till I don't. If jodie can't win people over in the first eps, it's going to be bad. If Michelle Gomez is an indication of what to expect of a gender change, we are in for a treat. Her master was brilliant. From the superb insanity of John Simm (best master ever imho) hell bent on universal domination, Michelle's Master (easily a near second) was a more comical and sinister madness combined with an obsession with the Doctor.

Maybe they are beating a dead horse and The Doctor needs to take a 5-10 year vacation to return with new material. Changing the gender is a massive thing. If they changed it just to score some SWJ points, its going to show when they don't have a good story-line to justify the change.
 

daglesj

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Originally back in the 60's. The new show is a family friendly adventure but definitely aimed at an older audience - they just use cuts and innuendo to make it family friendly. It's about as much a children's show as Star Trek.

It's a children's show. Grown men (I use that term loosely in this instance) are getting upset over a program made primarily for kids.
 

Ur_Mom

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A woman Doctor?! Why isn't she in the kitchen where she belongs!?

If you haven't seen it, Agent Carter spent way way too much time focusing on "look of sexist people were" shtick making almost every single important male in the series a sexist, that eventually learn that women are more than pretty faces, over the actual big plots and real character development.

My previous comment illustrates why Agent Carter focused on that. The 1950's had the 'American Housewife'. Leave it to Beaver (A little rough on the Beav', weren'tcha Ward?), etc.. Agent Carter was a strong woman that beat that stereotype. Wonder Woman as well. That's how it was.

For the new Doctor. I'm good. Shake things up. Bring the story as well, though. Don't make it about a woman Doctor. Make it about the story and have a woman Doctor.
 

raz-0

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I used to think I liked doctor who. Then I realized I just liked Tom baker's stint as the doctor and really could jsut tolerate some of the others in the absence of better things to do. It's not the 80s anymore, there's shit tons of better (or more necesary) things to do.

The doctor being a female will be as good as any of them if they just continue to write Dr. Who episodes and don't treat it as rewriting the show to be female friendly. Turning Dr. Who into the lifetime channel to appease women is sort of missing the point of feminism.
 

Hsensei

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The 13th doctor really illustrates how fragile men are. This whole thing has been good for a chuckle.
 

naib

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Amy and Clara were actually my favorites. Especially Amy.

Looking forward the female doctor. I think.
Oh I agree they were great, but then the stories started being around their quirks rather than the Dr flying around and ... coincidentally *cough* tardis redirects *cough* landing in some unique problem. A underlying backstory is always good but you don't need to make it always about that
 

Dan_D

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Amy and Clara were actually my favorites. Especially Amy.

Looking forward the female doctor. I think.

I liked Amy. Clara was a plot device that was used for far too long. Don't get me wrong, she was easy on the eyes and not all of her episodes were bad, but she could have been handled better. I did like her last season with regard to her and the Doctor having a toxic relationship that wasn't good for the universe.

Maybe they are beating a dead horse and The Doctor needs to take a 5-10 year vacation to return with new material. Changing the gender is a massive thing. If they changed it just to score some SWJ points, its going to show when they don't have a good story-line to justify the change.

My concern that the change is for pushing an SJW friendly agenda. Again, if they handle the story right I will continue to enjoy the show.

It's a children's show. Grown men (I use that term loosely in this instance) are getting upset over a program made primarily for kids.

People who believe that it is a children's show clearly do not, or have never watched it. It's family friendly, most of the time. I'll agree with that, but it's not really targeted at young children.

For the new Doctor. I'm good. Shake things up. Bring the story as well, though. Don't make it about a woman Doctor. Make it about the story and have a woman Doctor.

And that's the point. There are a lot of unknowns here with the lead writer changing and them recasting the Doctor. Again, if done right it could be a good thing. If not, the BBC will have to re-think the show's direction.
 

groebuck

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I don't understand all the flap - they have alway said - 12 regeneration that's it, for the male Time Lords. Then 12 times round as a female then done. off with ye! Would love to see a Rose/Alt Tennat/New Lady Doctor meeting...
 

inerlogic

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The doctor has never been a woman, and i think at least two have commented on this, check the regenerations of smith and ten.... i think they mention it ie. "Still not a woman" "still not ginger" or something along those lines....

That being said....

Doctress Who: episode 1
"Ooo finally, i'm a woman, guess i'll get paid less now..."

"Woah.... breasts... never had these before!"

Episode 3...

"Wait.... why is one bigger than the other?"

Episode 5...

"Seriously, is this normal? One is an entire cup size off...."

Episode 6...

"Goodbye sonic screwdriver, hello sonic hitachi magic wand"
 

groebuck

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that is what i mean - time lords born male - 12 regenerations as male - they have always said 12 regens for a time lord - they never said they could not change gender and start over again.
 
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so why did the master have to nearly destroy gallifrey to try to regenerate when his 12th regeneration was up? then resorted to body snatching?
 

Dan_D

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The doctor has never been a woman, and i think at least two have commented on this, check the regenerations of smith and ten.... i think they mention it ie. "Still not a woman" "still not ginger" or something along those lines....

The Doctor has never been a woman, despite making a comment in this last series that he couldn't remember if he was a man or woman back when he met the Master at the Academy on their home world. Very briefly, the 11th Doctor (Matt Smith) believes he might have regenerated as a woman. He figures out this was not the case quickly. He's never shown any desire to be female until Clara mentioned to the 12th Doctor that he could become one, a comment which he responded favorably to. Both his 10th and 11th incarnations expressed a desire to become Ginger. This hasn't been the case previously, or since. Preferences for food, clothing, desire for future body types and possibly genders change with each iteration of the Timelord. When he first regenerates into the 11th Doctor, he has to rediscover what food he likes which leads to him eating frozen fish sticks and custard together.

that is what i mean - time lords born male - 12 regenerations as male - they have always said 12 regens for a time lord - they never said they could not change gender and start over again.

Actually, they have stated that a Timelord doesn't simply get 12 regenerations as one gender with the ability to have 12 more as another gender.

The rules of regeneration are actually quite well known. Its one of the few things we do know about Timelords. Each Timelord is granted 12 regenerations for a total of 13 incarnations in all. Note that I said they are granted. It's unknown if their regenerations are a fact of biology or if they are granted when they are elevated to the status of "Timelord." We also do not know how the 12 regeneration limit is imposed on Timelords. We do know that it's a soft limit as the Doctor, the Master and Rassilon are all beyond the 12 regeneration limit. In other words, they've said that the 12 regeneration is a physical limitation, albeit a soft one. They do not get to start over by swapping genders. Going past the 12 regeneration limit is rare and requires intervention from the Timelord council. Rassilon may be the only Timelord that does not have this limitation as he's the first Timelord and the founder of their society. That said he was killed before and was entombed on Gallifrey. Thus, even Rassilon has some limitations. He was either killed during a regeneration or in such a way as to prevent it. Alternatively, he could have been at the 12 regeneration limit and died of old age. He was resurrected later on, but I won't get into how that's done. That's a whole convoluted mess without getting into the Big Finish stuff and sticking to just the TV show.

The gender, or switching genders was never discussed until the new series. Specifically, only during Steven Moffat's tenure as the showrunner. It was stated in "The Doctor's Wife" that the Corsair had switched genders which is the first time this was stated as a possibility beyond the 11th mistakenly believing he regenerated into one. That post-regeneration dialog could have been interpreted in a number of ways. Surprise that he was a female, believing it impossible, or simple post-regeneration rambling. The Doctor's regenerations in particular do not generally go well and he's been everything from an amnesiac to being a violent psychopath who attempted to strangle his female companion during this time. Other Timelords shown to regenerate have done so with a great deal more ease and even control over the process. Timelady Romana not only previewed possible bodies / faces but even consciously copied someone else's face they had encountered before.

The Doctor's changes seemed random at first, but now we know that they are shaped by his subconscious. The sisterhood of Carn in "Night of the Doctor" suggested that the change was generally random but that they had the ability to give the Doctor a choice about his new form. Even the gender and personality traits were among the choices he was presented with. Similarly, the second Doctor's life was ended as a punishment by the Timelord Council and he was given a choice about his potential faces. While the Doctor generally believed his faces were random, almost every incarnation of the Doctor was seen by a previous incarnation at one point or another. In two cases, he's taken the face of other people he either encountered in the past, or would see in the future. Having starred into the time vortex and even having had that energy in him, it's possible he's seen all his future incarnations at one point or another, though he's unaware of this consciously. He is able to choose his form, although not necessarily the way he wants to.

In a literal sense, his recent incarnations and their progression or changes make a certain sense. From 9 to 10 he made himself younger to be with Rose. 10's life ended with him being pretty depressed and beaten down. He turned into an even younger and more playful form. That Doctor went down a very dark road, but he had two strong female companions. Amy and Clara. The 12th Doctor was older, and specifically came about after he had an 1100 or 1200 year stint in a single form. He came back the grandfather like figure he started his adventures as, but had a Scottish accent. I believe this was done because Amy was Scottish. This time it makes sense for him to regenerate as a female because of Clara, Amy and Missy's influences. Again, if they handle it right it can make sense in-universe and make for a good story. We can only hope they do. I'll give the new writer and the actress the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, the first series with a new Doctor is always hit and miss. That's how it's been almost since the beginning.
 

Dan_D

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so why did the master have to nearly destroy gallifrey to try to regenerate when his 12th regeneration was up? then resorted to body snatching?

The Master burned through his first regeneration cycle very quickly. The original Master we see opposite of the 3rd Doctor is actually the Master's final incarnation in his original regeneration cycle. I can't recall how his injuries were sustained, but in a couple of appearances he's a crispy fucker that's crippled and gross. In these appearances he's desperately trying to find the means to extend his life span. He then steals the body of a man named Tremas overwriting the host mind. The Tremas version's DNA gets muted by this Cheetah virus and the series was cancelled so they never did anything with that. Evidently, this condition either ran its course or was cured. The Daleks had captured the Master and executed him on Skarro. The novels apparently explains how, but the master transferred his consciousness to a morphant snake creature called the Deathworm Morphant. It's assumed that he did this similarly to the way he took over Tremas's body. The snake creature ended up in the body of an American man played by Eric Roberts in the 1996 TV movie. The master was then sucked into the Eye of Harmony (black hole) which would have normally killed him.

The Timelords actually rescued him from the end of his time stream and gave him a new set of regenerations to fight in the Time War. The Professor Yana version of him is believed to be his first incarnation in this second regeneration cylce. Given the body snatching bit, this makes Missy his 18th incarnation but only the third in his second cycle of regenerations. Supposedly, the John Simm version killed her in a way that would prevent Missy from regenerating. We do actually see her die on screen. Her clever way of making it look like she's vaporized in earlier episodes wasn't available to her, but I'm certain that another version of the Master will pop up. He or she always does. Cheating death is what the character does.
 

nutzo

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The problem is that Doctor Who has a history of pushing the agenda's of whomever has control over it at the time. During the Russel T. Davies era, they practically shoved an LBGT agenda down everyone's throats as the showrunner at the time is a homosexual. Still, Russel T. Davies knew his audience and knew how to keep things in check. When he left Doctor Who to work on it's spin-off Torchwood, this was taken to far more extremes given that it wasn't a family friendly show. Basically every character on the show was bisexual and they filmed sex scenes with both genders for about everyone to prove it.


And yes, the Master regenerating into a female did cause some fan outrage from a few people. Personally, I had no issue with the gender change as much as I disliked Missy's personality. She was a bit too crazy and over the top. You hit the nail on the head with regard to the gender change. If they don't make a big deal about it, then it's not really an issue. If they make it a statement about feminism, then it's going to be nothing but cringe worthy every episode. Worse yet, if the show does badly as a result of that, men will get accused of not being able to accept a female lead, when in reality it might not be well received if the show becomes too political and preachy. Doctor Who is supposed to be fun, nothing more, nothing less.

And that is the larger problem, pushing the LBGT agenda.

Have the master appear as a female distracted from the character. It was a negative for the show not a plus.
Having the Doctor become a female is going to be used to push that agenda, and will also detract from the show.

Guess we will just have to wait and see what happens to the ratings to see who is right.
 

ecktt

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The doctor companion was always his moral compass. Does this change?
Male Travelers have been mostly neutral ever since. Does this change also?
I'm betting that all the female viewership they gained with young doctors (not the the australian soap opera) was lost mostly because Capaldi is an older man. A shit story line and a female doctor is not going to bring back that crowd.
Stan Lee said it best:
“Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it’s so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to. Hell, I’ll do it myself.”
 

MavericK

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Amy and Clara were actually my favorites. Especially Amy.

Looking forward the female doctor. I think.

I honestly think they were two of the worst. They were attractive but as a companion, meh. Donna Noble is my favorite of the newer companions.
 

daglesj

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People who believe that it is a children's show clearly do not, or have never watched it. It's family friendly, most of the time. I'll agree with that, but it's not really targeted at young children.

So what are kids aged 7 to 13? Ah yeah...children.

Quit making excuses for loving a kids show.:rolleyes:;)
 

naib

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I honestly think they were two of the worst. They were attractive but as a companion, meh. Donna Noble is my favorite of the newer companions.
Really. You can't be British cause that actress is annoying as fsck....
 

MavericK

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Really. You can't be British cause that actress is annoying as fsck....

I am not, but I found her to be hilarious. Also, she didn't take any shit and wasn't madly in love with the Doctor unlike several of the other companions.
 

Derangel

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It's a children's show. Grown men (I use that term loosely in this instance) are getting upset over a program made primarily for kids.

That's like calling Pixar movies kids movies. While technically true, when it is well written it covers material that makes it work for all ages from kids to adults. Doctor Who moved on from being exclusively a kids show ever since it returned from hiatus. Moffat's writing, at times, geared it towards being more kid oriented, especially during the Matt Smith years, but Davis' stories tried harder to have something for all fans young and adult.

A woman Doctor?! Why isn't she in the kitchen where she belongs!?



My previous comment illustrates why Agent Carter focused on that. The 1950's had the 'American Housewife'. Leave it to Beaver (A little rough on the Beav', weren'tcha Ward?), etc.. Agent Carter was a strong woman that beat that stereotype. Wonder Woman as well. That's how it was.

For the new Doctor. I'm good. Shake things up. Bring the story as well, though. Don't make it about a woman Doctor. Make it about the story and have a woman Doctor.

Agent Carter had a reason to focus on what it did, the problem is the writing was really poor and it felt ham-fisted and like they were shoving it down your throat versus being clever about it. Season 2 was better about it, but the writing still didn't improve a whole heck of a lot.

Wonder Woman actually balanced that aspect really well. It made note of the time period when it was appropriate and then moved on to the plot itself and character development. That balance is what Agent Carter failed to maintain, at least in season 1.
 

Derangel

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Really. You can't be British cause that actress is annoying as fsck....

Not British, but I loved Tate in Doctor Who. Some of the other things I've seen her in have been hit and miss, but I really liked her there. Donna was such a breath of fresh air for the series. Rose was annoying and Martha felt too much like yet another attempt at Rose that failed. Donna was what the show needed at that time and she provided a good counter to Tennant's Doctor, helping drive him to the point he was before his regeneration.
 
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Ur_Mom

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Agent Carter had a reason to focus on what it did, the problem is the writing was really poor and it felt ham-fisted and like they were shoving it down your throat versus being clever about it. Season 2 was better about it, but the writing still didn't improve a whole heck of a lot.

Wonder Woman actually balanced that aspect really well. It made note of the time period when it was appropriate and then moved on to the plot itself and character development. That balance is what Agent Carter failed to maintain, at least in season 1.

True. They did keep bringing it up. She was a good agent... for a girl. :)

I loved the show, though. I think Agent Carter is a bad ass.
 

Dan_D

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Not British, but I loved Tate in Doctor Who. Some of the other things I've seen her in have been hit and miss, but I really liked her there. Donna was such a breath of fresh air for the series. Rose was annoying and Martha felt too much like yet another attempt at Rose that failed. Donna was what the show needed at that time and she provided a good counter to Tennant's Doctor, helping drive him to the point he was before his regeneration.

She was definitely different than the companions that came before her.
 

Derangel

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True. They did keep bringing it up. She was a good agent... for a girl. :)

I loved the show, though. I think Agent Carter is a bad ass.

Oh Carter herself was amazing. When early rumors were pointing to Atwell as a possibility to replace Matt Smith, and then Capaldi, I was incredibly excited. Atwell did an outstanding job in the series and is really one of the only reasons it worked as well as it did.
 

Dan_D

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Oh Carter herself was amazing. When early rumors were pointing to Atwell as a possibility to replace Matt Smith, and then Capaldi, I was incredibly excited. Atwell did an outstanding job in the series and is really one of the only reasons it worked as well as it did.

That was one choice for a potential female Doctor I liked.
 

CaptNumbNutz

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Meh... The Doctor's always been a bit asexual anyways which was always made things a little weird when the companions started to fall in love with him.

I guess you can put me in the minority group. This doctor being a woman doesn't really bother me. Keep her in eccentric but conservative clothing common to the doctor's character and things should be fine. I'm not saying they should stick her in men's clothing, just that they don't need to put her in a skin tight leather catsuit with her breasts busting out. The second they feel the need to show off her body like that... I'm out. That's proof to me that they have run out of ideas and can no longer sell the show on it's original premise. I want the Doctor to remain that goofy best friend type, not the kind you lust after. If I want to see that actress's body, I'm sure I can find plenty of other examples in other media.
 

jedijeb13

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One of the best episodes of the new era and one I agree with others is the best one to watch first for people who have never seen it before, is the episode Blink. The amazing thing is that is really doesn't show the Doctor much, but is awesome at explaining the time traveling aspect of the show. How the past, present and future are tied together is explained well.

After the Doctor is on Trensalor and is given the extra charge of regeneration energy, he makes the comment that he (Matt Smith Doctor) was supposed to be the last because he had already regenerated once and kept the same face, but now he didn't know how many more regenerations he would have. The interesting thing is after the Capaldi Doctor is trapped inside his confession dial which is considered the Time Lord's will device, he is now over a billion years old, if you take into account all the time it took him to break free, even though each time through the loop he was being reproduced by the teleport looping over and over so in his mind it was only a day or so. What wasn't clear to me after that episode was if Clara and Ashildr (aka Me) are also that old since they are there when he breaks out.

If they will never focus on the gender of the Doctor, then it doesn't matter if a woman plays the Doctor. That would be a true gender neutral representation of the character. If they push the fact of the new gender then they will have defeated everything they are hoping to gain by having the change. You can't be gender neutral if you always focus on gender and that is where these gender warriors are failing in their message.
 
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