The Anti-Cheat System Is Broken in Battlefield V

cageymaru

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 10, 2003
Messages
19,990
Rogue-9 on YouTube has released a video that details the cheating that is going on in Battlefield V. He detected the cheaters in the video by entering matches as a spectator and recording video footage of the aimbots and wall hacks in use. He predicts that Battlefield V will be completely unplayable in a few months.

Battlefield 5 has had probably the roughest start it could possibly have had. No proper marketing, an insulting political crusade and then a rushed launch of an unfinished game. But now, to add insult to injury, it appears that the cheating communities have discovered that BFV is significantly compromised at this point and I am seeing suspicious players pretty much every day. Here are some of the guys I have spectated and if this rise in brazen cheating continues, BFV will be unplayable within the next couple of months.
 

Gideon

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
2,720
Wow that was pretty obvious, one would think the Devs would take a closer look at fixing that.
 

bsbllclown

Weaksauce
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
67
Wow that was pretty obvious, one would think the Devs would take a closer look at fixing that.
They have no intention of fixing it. They have been called out time and time again since BF1 because of the lack of anti cheat.
 

Nytegard

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
3,256
Wow that was pretty obvious, one would think the Devs would take a closer look at fixing that.
Cheating is an arms race between the developers and cheaters. Until real time AI is in use to determine cheaters, there's never going to be an acceptable fix. Every PC game I play in has too many cheaters for my taste, and it's only gotten worse since devs decided player run servers are no good.

This is partially why I want mouse and keyboard support for games on consoles. At least in a closed ecosystem, it's harder for cheaters to flourish.
 

niconx

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
2,946
I didn't get this game because EA are pushing rapid release schedules now. That means EA is going to abandon the game and not provide fixes. Activision does the same thing with COD. They rush to patch stuff right after launch then a short time later it's abandoned.
 

niconx

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
2,946
These days there are mods to make games like this run in extremely low graphics mode, basically it makes the game look like Fortnite on a phone. That lets you see through things because those things aren't even there with the hack on.
 

viper1152012

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
1,025
I remember getting bf5 on release because a buddy realllly wanted to play but I didn't really get aroubd to joining him until last month and I get it now. Being sniped through a railcar and nailed through dense cover from across the conceivable engagement range is just ridiculous .
 

piscian18

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
11,021
its pretty rampant, especially the esp style hacking and terrain cheats. I took a break. battlefield at least 2-4 and bc2 had at least a couple solid competitive maps that are go to's like dust2 or train is to csgo. This one none the maps in any mode particularly standout, what maps there are it all feels very recycled This lacks a good karkland or dragon rising. between the monotony and 1in3 maps being polluted with hackers im burned out. ill come back in a month or two and see if they take spectator feedback seriously and start cleaning up the game.

One of things that was great about old school shooters where you could run private servers. You end up playing with guys you know, and admins can ban cheaters.
theres a certain feeling of helplessness in this when you join a server 2 maps in and the top frag is 100-4 with clearly no admin enroute to save the day. Big fuck up on EAs part. Theres no one running the ship in BFV.
 
Last edited:

ZiggyDeath

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Messages
222
One of things that was great about old school shooters where you could run private servers. You end up playing with guys you know, and admins can ban cheaters.
Yeah those days...

"Really" good headphones and putzing about with the interp settings...

Which actually translates into lots of wallhacks, prefiring, and netcode exploitation.

Luckily aimbots were terrible.
 

NukeDukem

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 15, 2011
Messages
2,329
Phew! Glad I got $20 for my BFV code, back when the game was worth that much.
 

Tbird761

n00b
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
8
Soooo, less of a problem playing in Linux now eh?
As it would happen, yes. I play it on Debian and have yet to be banned. It runs alright when the state caches are built up, but it's pretty miserable until then (ie extremely choppy, even resulting in disconnects). EA hasn't announced any official prohibition of playing through emulation fortunately.
 

Crotan

Gawd
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
930
I don’t know I feel that the new TTK just has the normal solo players hurting more than usual. I play pretty much only with a squad on discord and never solo, same group of guys from past battlefields. We play nightly, and nightly there are hackusations. I can say we’ve only run into two or three blatant cheaters since release. We have a blast, so I see this post and the posts on reddit and I’m actually having the opposite experience.

I played each battlefield since BF2 and in my experience the earlier battlefields with so called real anticheat had way more cheaters. With the lower ttk playing with a squad in coms is just that much more important to your survival than past games.
 

Quad

n00b
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
22
Cheating in a Battlefield game ------who wouda thunk it. I will not be buying any more Battlefield series games . Got so sick of the cheaters I have switched to single player games like Far Cry series.
 

FearTheCow

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
5,106
I just quit any server where someone is far above anyone else in k/d after 2 maps, if it's a lower rank player I leave after 1 game.

How dice hasn't banned the guy running around headshotting people with a mmg really shows how much they don't give a shit.
 

knowom

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
425
It's easier to lower the bar than to raise unfortunately. Hacking will only get worse which is why AI is scary as hell as you know it'll put to nefarious use.
 

likeman

Gawd
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
723
If they would allow a overwatch like system, but have it so games are attempted to be watched within 5 minutes of been reported

Aprox 75% reviewers get standby qued to be watched by say 20 people at same time (15 vote = temp ban) and if it can't be viewed within 10 minutes it goes into qued review 25% of reviewers see older game reports (not temp banned)

People who have been temp Banned will need a majority of 90 of 100 people need to vote for permanent ban (they will be mixed with 25% but will have slightly higher priority to get there cases seen to sooner be banned permanently or temp ban removed)

5 minuets of replay if game is active as you want to review games as fast as possible when game is live (75% of qued mods) or whole game if its finished game, 25% of mods in que (playback controls for both)

If a person is temp Banned more then say 3 times they will not get a temp ban again if they are picked up incorrectly again (they will still be placed in the second stage review but at lower priority for review, like cs:go overwatch)

Once you know there is a chance to be banned in game within 10 minutes of been reported it will reduce cheaters a lot (also players with abnormal stats compared to everybody else on the server should automatically be queued for second stage review for people who have not been reported enough but at lower priority then temp banned players as they need to be seen to first )
 
Last edited:

knowom

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
425
The thing to would be upon death for a certain interval of time show players recent death recaps of other random players and have a report function built into it if they suspect foul play. Instead of then having the developers look into each one reported like that replay it more than once to other players and the more often it is reported the higher up on the priority list it goes. That way obvious hacks which are more easy to spot get bumped up retroactively by the player base to be looked into. Perhaps they can train AI to do that where is Google when you need them for something practical to train AI in relation to video games.
 

iRevert

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
468
If they would allow a overwatch like system, but have it so games are attempted to be watched within 5 minutes of been reported

Aprox 75% reviewers get standby qued to be watched by say 20 people at same time (15 vote = temp ban) and if it can't be viewed within 10 minutes it goes into qued review 25% of reviewers see older game reports (not temp banned)

People who have been temp Banned will need a majority of 90 of 100 people need to vote for permanent ban (they will be mixed with 25% but will have slightly higher priority to get there cases seen to sooner be banned permanently or temp ban removed)

5 minuets of replay if game is active as you want to review games as fast as possible when game is live (75% of qued mods) or whole game if its finished game, 25% of mods in que (playback controls for both)

If a person is temp Banned more then say 3 times they will not get a temp ban again if they are picked up incorrectly again (they will still be placed in the second stage review but at lower priority for review, like cs:go overwatch)

Once you know there is a chance to be banned in game within 10 minutes of been reported it will reduce full on blatant cheaters (also players with abnormal stats compared to everybody else on the server should automatically be queued for second stage review for people who have not been reported enough but at lower priority then temp banned players as they need to be seen to first )

The issue with that is the vast majority of players don't know what makes a cheater and only identify at their own skill level.

What do you do when you watch an overwatch video of Relaaa?


They would report him as a cheater as we've seen time and time again on Reddit and other places.

Take a look at sites like BF4DB where it's a community reported, stat based ban site. Not only did they encorporate PBB (prior to them launching false ban waves) and ACI as well as FF, but they took data from some of the best players and used that as a baseline on where to flag people for manual review. The result is you have day 1 sometimes even game 1 detection rates of cheaters playing on servers using the plugin and those that don't are caught via community reporting and manual inspection of the data of the game. (EDIT - I'm not saying it's perfect and has a 100% rate of success nor is it a 100% perfect and accurate thing that doesn't mess up)

Overwatch is great and all but you vastly underestimate the lack of skill that you see in players with ~1000+ hours in the game, when you are a sub 1 KDR player with the reaction time of a potato and the aim of Stevie Wonder you shouldn't be allowed to touch an overwatch report with a ten foot pole. You need a balance of stat based baseline, community that knows what they are doing in review (in a non-biased form), and private servers where you can remove cheaters or problematic people before you start moving into the overwatch realm. Don't put all your faith in one system because it can and will fail, it has been shown that the MOMENT a new game comes out all of the FF staff applying manual bans abandon past games and let the automated system take over, this automated system takes weeks to months to ban cheat accounts if they even catch them at all. There still are accounts playing BF4 that have active PBB/ACI/BF4DB bans that FairFight hasn't caught or removed...some of them with over 2k hours.
 

5150Joker

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
4,316
I have an innovative solution to bf5 hacking epidemic--allow community run servers where admins are given the server side files and can host the server with the provider of their choice. Back in the day when I ran a server I'd spectate potential cheaters and ban them immediately as did other admins. But corporate greed took over and now their microtransaction cluster fuck game is failing and rightly so.
 

iRevert

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
468
I have an innovative solution to bf5 hacking epidemic--allow community run servers where admins are given the server side files and can host the server with the provider of their choice. Back in the day when I ran a server I'd spectate potential cheaters and ban them immediately as did other admins. But corporate greed took over and now their microtransaction cluster fuck game is failing and rightly so.
Nah then people would want server tools to disable certain weapons for when a patch messes up the damage values and it takes ~3 months for DICE to figure out how to patch it.
 

Ranger101

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
116
Just play the single player campaign and make sure you turn Ray Tracing On. Problem solved.
 

likeman

Gawd
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
723
The issue with that is the vast majority of players don't know what makes a cheater and only identify at their own skill level.

What do you do when you watch an overwatch video of Relaaa?


They would report him as a cheater as we've seen time and time again on Reddit and other places.

Take a look at sites like BF4DB where it's a community reported, stat based ban site. Not only did they encorporate PBB (prior to them launching false ban waves) and ACI as well as FF, but they took data from some of the best players and used that as a baseline on where to flag people for manual review. The result is you have day 1 sometimes even game 1 detection rates of cheaters playing on servers using the plugin and those that don't are caught via community reporting and manual inspection of the data of the game. (EDIT - I'm not saying it's perfect and has a 100% rate of success nor is it a 100% perfect and accurate thing that doesn't mess up)

Overwatch is great and all but you vastly underestimate the lack of skill that you see in players with ~1000+ hours in the game, when you are a sub 1 KDR player with the reaction time of a potato and the aim of Stevie Wonder you shouldn't be allowed to touch an overwatch report with a ten foot pole. You need a balance of stat based baseline, community that knows what they are doing in review (in a non-biased form), and private servers where you can remove cheaters or problematic people before you start moving into the overwatch realm. Don't put all your faith in one system because it can and will fail, it has been shown that the MOMENT a new game comes out all of the FF staff applying manual bans abandon past games and let the automated system take over, this automated system takes weeks to months to ban cheat accounts if they even catch them at all. There still are accounts playing BF4 that have active PBB/ACI/BF4DB bans that FairFight hasn't caught or removed...some of them with over 2k hours.
That was a trimmed down post I did (yes you don't just let everyone have report rights from get go) and have be able to have cases reviewed properly if you do get a player reviewed ban

But his snapping is very suspicious, but seem this with promod players I just have to play differently when some one is playing like this (like don't run out and kill everything because he might be there, have to play more careful)
 
Last edited:

knowom

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
425
The cheaters are covert as hell about it is a unfortunate truth. It's hard to detect something well masked take the TSMC wafer contimination incident for example. Apply that sort of thing and apply it to hacking and you have cheater that is harder than hell to prove or detect they are cheating due to the subtlety yet it gives them all the edge they need to win much more consistently since that's all it takes in general is a edge there isn't much middle ground especially in games that don't punish reality. He's fine he put a band aid over that handful of bullet wounds he's 100% capable of what he was two seconds ago before he was shot it's merely a flesh wound git gud.
 

likeman

Gawd
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
723
The cheaters are covert as hell about it is a unfortunate truth. It's hard to detect something well masked take the TSMC wafer contimination incident for example. Apply that sort of thing and apply it to hacking and you have cheater that is harder than hell to prove or detect they are cheating due to the subtlety yet it gives them all the edge they need to win much more consistently since that's all it takes in general is a edge there isn't much middle ground especially in games that don't punish reality. He's fine he put a band aid over that handful of bullet wounds he's 100% capable of what he was two seconds ago before he was shot it's merely a flesh wound git gud.
You be surprised how often that's not true, a lot of them are very blatant (some of them are very bad even when they have walls)
 

B00nie

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
8,445
I really loved FPS shooters and BF3 untill I got sick of the cheaters. I'm not going to waste my money to any fps game anymore because they all have blatant hackers on them and the devs do nothing about it.

And offline scripted games are so incredibly dumb IMO.

For me the fun part of online games was to try out a tactic that was too dumb or crazy to work and then succeed due to surprising the enemy.

The fps I enjoyed the most was probably Americas Army and especially the insurgent camp map. I played that hundreds of hours and I was really sad to see it go. I just loved the split second precision you needed at the start of the map, either 203ing the tower or rushing yourself to the tower and trying to headshot the opponent before the 203 traveled to the destination. I developed a pretty good accuracy with the M240.
 
Last edited:

knowom

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
425
You be surprised how often that's not true, a lot of them are very blatant (some of them are very bad even when they have walls)
I'm well aware of that fact, but my point remains the best cheaters are going to be covert about it in nature in order to evade detection basically dormant so to speak at it or at least are majority of the time. Some defiantly don't care and are very brazen about though no doubt about it others are in between. The thing is it is difficult to detect I've been server kicked in the past and accused of hacking for knifing players.I mean come on really? Of all the things to get hack accused of knifing!? You literally let me walk up and stab you and you had a gun. I know one thing lack of private servers just doesn't help it makes it worse to police and detect. I'd rather admin with hacks able to compared/spectate and ban when appropriate myself. It's extremely easy to more easily and sounding detect a hack with hack to go off of in the first place. To be the best you need to beat the best comes to mind. To beat a hacker you need to become the hacker so to speak.
 
Top