The AGP outlook (reopened and updated 01-19-2006)

Lol.

That's a nice lil' revision u made would work, but the Athlon XP I had at 2.2GHz was no where near as fast as my Winchester 2.2GHz.

I carried over my 9800XT from an AGP socket A board, to a 939 AGP board. The 939 AGP setup was way faster.

PCI express is useless except for dual cards, or a single card that would fill a AGP slot.
 
I think the biggest reason for phasing out AGP was stated in the first post. OEMs have pretty much given up on the format. And since most OEMs have given up on it, there isnt much insentive to retailers to stock AGP cards. I'm speaking of huge B&M retailers like Circuit City, Best Buy, Compusa, etc.

And while this might leave you out in the cold, it really does make sense financially. Hardcore gamers are a VERY VERY small protion of the overall videocard market. ATI and NVIDIA sells more mid to low end cards than any of the high end stuff. And those mid to low end cards, are sold to people buying OEM PCs not custom builds. And all OEM PCs now come with PCI-Express board. You can see where this is going.

It's much cheaper for them to focus on what sells the most. Sadly that does leave a lot of people scrwed over, but the amount of money they lose in that small segment, is nothing compared to the amount they save by not making a product line which wouldn't sell very many cards at all. Simple economics.
 
This type of post resurfaces time and time again when ever the market starts to shift. If you can get what you want get it. If you can't it's time to upgrade...I feel I waited quite enough time before adopting PCI-E myself....only been 4-5 months.....IT'S TIME guys. If you can hold out till M2 your prolly better off at this point.
 
Recent AGP product announcements from ATI and Nvidia have proven this "simple economics" theory about PCI-E is not the case, at least for now. Reality is, 80% of the installed system base -- including gaming enthusiast systems -- are still AGP.

Millions of people are not about to gut blazing fast i875/S478/etc systems just for a video upgrade, and Nvidia and ATI know it.
 
Frank DC said:
Recent AGP product announcements from ATI and Nvidia have proven this "simple economics" theory about PCI-E is not the case, at least for now. Reality is, 80% of the installed system base -- including gaming enthusiast systems -- are still AGP.

Millions of people are not about to gut blazing fast i875/S478/etc systems just for a video upgrade, and Nvidia and ATI know it.
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I am not saying they will not or are not attempting to accomidate the ENTIRE market. But I think it's fare to say there is a clear differance between a GAMING enthusiast, and a HARDWARE enthusiast. I know guys still playing on PIII systems, but I think the logic that it still performs well has long passed. Running at 800x600 with no eye candy, low frame rates, and claiming it's fine may work for some. I think it is totally silly for anyone today to consider a major upgrade to their existing AGP video card. Six months from now socket M2 and DDR2 for AMD will lock in the PCI-E transition and you will be well behind the 8 ball. If I want the latest and greatest video cards and features it simply easier to be running a PCI-E platform. It will also make the transition to M2 much easier since I will have a compatible card in my system now. My advice to anyone with an AGP card is to just hang on to what you got until M2 then make the jump. Although I really really really like how well my X1800XL performs, best card since my 9800 Pro (-:
 
I've spent a year and nearly $2000 assembling a near perfect Northwood P4 system (3.8GHz, 250FSB 1:1 etc) that blows the doors off most AMD systems. And AGP8X is just fine thanks with eye candy maxed and res's up to 1600x1200x32.

There are other considerations as well. I literally can't upgrade from an AGP system because I need at least 5 PCI slots (2xSCSI controllers, MPEG encoder etc). How many PCI-E mobos are there with 5 PCI slots?

Come hell or high water I'll be holding on to this system for at least the next 2-3 years. The 7800GS/X1800/etc AGP's will be very happily received.
 
Frank DC said:
I've spent a year and nearly $2000 assembling a near perfect Northwood P4 system (3.8GHz, 250FSB 1:1 etc) that blows the doors off most AMD systems. And AGP8X is just fine thanks with eye candy maxed and res's up to 1600x1200x32.

There are other considerations as well. I literally can't upgrade from an AGP system because I need at least 5 PCI slots (2xSCSI controllers, MPEG encoder etc). How many PCI-E mobos are there with 5 PCI slots?

Come hell or high water I'll be holding on to this system for at least the next 2-3 years. The 7800GS/X1800/etc AGP's will be very happily received.
Click to expand...

Understood about the PCI slots, however you could use more external SATA, or USB products if needed.

PS: I will put my $1000.00 AMD system against your $2000.00 P4 system anyday I bet I can do well or better then your box in most instances (-; hehe...but keep in mind I am running an X1800XL, two Raptors in Raid 0, and a 3200 Venice clocked in at 2600MHZ.
 
the new 6800GS CO seems to be a good card on the AGP.

Has higher clocks then the 6800GT that still cost around $250~300

400/1100, at 35.2GB/s bandwidth.
And overclockable (stable) to around 450/1200...
Hell, that almost good as the PCI-e version :D

The bandwidth at 35.2GB/s is awesome, the clocks are set pretty high
and seems to be pretty descent considering the alternative nvidia cards that
are out there right now for AGP.

I tried out one at work, and they are a good upgrade for AGP system users.

Only thing I am worried about was its extra pipes. As many people know the
6800GS has unlockable pixelpipes. The original 6800GS agp and pci-e seem
to work fine with the pixelpipes unlocked. But when I tested the 6800GS CO,
it worked ok for a while then started to mess up my screen with green/white
lines, artifacts, etc. So I locked the pipes and it worked just fine. It may well
be just that card, but Im not sure.

Anyways, until they come up with better cards for AGP users, 6800GS CO
seems to offer best 'bang for the buck'.
 
Frank DC said:
I've spent a year and nearly $2000 assembling a near perfect Northwood P4 system (3.8GHz, 250FSB 1:1 etc) that blows the doors off most AMD systems. And AGP8X is just fine thanks with eye candy maxed and res's up to 1600x1200x32.

There are other considerations as well. I literally can't upgrade from an AGP system because I need at least 5 PCI slots (2xSCSI controllers, MPEG encoder etc). How many PCI-E mobos are there with 5 PCI slots?

Come hell or high water I'll be holding on to this system for at least the next 2-3 years. The 7800GS/X1800/etc AGP's will be very happily received.
Click to expand...

No offense, but it seems as if you've climbed to the top of the ladder only to realize you've climbed the wrong one (not necessarily a reference to AMD/Intel).
 
The more you invest, the more you stand to lose. Every situation is different. For users still with 6600GTs, 9800 Pros, and Ti 4200s, there is quite a bit of life left in AGP. People with X850XTs don't have much room to grow.

I am glad to see vendors step up to the plate and take a chance on making current generation AGP cards. The yare incurring quite a bit of cost up front, as they have to develop their own design rather than simply copyign a reference board. Hopefully everyone who ahs been clamoring for them will make it profitable :)
 
I am still milking everything possible out of my socket A/AGP system. My 6800 is fast getting run over by newer games. Its done me well, but I won't be spending any more money on any upgrades . Other than case mods of course ;)
 
No offense, but it seems as if you've climbed to the top of the ladder only to realize you've climbed the wrong one
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Sorry, I didn't climb up the wrong ladder. What happened is that a cabal of hardware manufacturers collectively (and suddenly, in relative terms) decided to tell 80% of the computing world to go whistle. I have a number of talents but freaking fortune telling isn't one of them.

I would not have done anything different even had I seen this coming. The P4/S478 Northwood system I built outbenches all Prescotts and most AMD systems, and support for every component has been fine, and looks to stay that way for at least the next 2-3 years -- EXCEPT for a video card upgrade. Unfortunate, but certainly not the end of the world for me. I'll just do with a 7800GS or whatever the cabal allows to fall from the table over the next few years.
 
Ditto, Frank DC!!! :) My Northwood C's are still unparalled among the Intel offerings in terms of power to watt ratio (for desktop chips). Only the future Conroe chips will outperform the C's - which apparently won't be available until Q3-Q4 of '06. But, sadly, the CABAL and marketers rule. :mad:
 
GOOD PEOPLE: Please stop arguing over PCIE vs AGP - this is not the subject or purpose of this thread. There really should be ZERO mention of PCI-E. This thread is about the "OUTLOOK OF AGP BASED GRAPHIC CARDS"



DISCLAIMER: I'm not a forum moderator, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn a few years back...
 
He does have a point. However, PCI-E (and the forces behind its adoption) is the single most important factor affecting decisions on what AGP products will be offered going forward.

People moving to PCI-E have reasons for doing so. People sticking with AGP have reasons for doing so. There simply isn't one blanket one answer that applies for everyone. If you are unable or unwilling to understand reasons members may have for sticking to AGP, posting in this thread may not be a good idea.

If you are unable or unwilling to understand why the industry has moved to PCI-E, then I wouldn't be complaining too loudly about PCI-E exclusive parts.
 
I read on a couple websites that 55% of all Video cards sold are still AGP flavor ....so, there is still alot of money to be made by ATI & Nvidia by releasing newer AGP Cards ...especially if they would quit overpricing the AGP Cards when compared to the PCI-E versions.
 
seanmcd said:
[
DISCLAIMER: I'm not a forum moderator, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn a few years back...
Click to expand...
OH MAN.. thats sig material!

good shit
 
I read on a couple websites that 55% of all Video cards sold are still AGP flavor
Click to expand...

55% of new video cards sold in 2005 were AGP. If one takes into account used card sales, that number is a lot higher. How much higher is anyone's guess, but I'd say it's easily 80% or more.

Anyway I've already whined too much about this issue. I just wish PCI-E advocates and related AGP bashers would keep in mind three points:

1) No one's claiming PCI-E isn't a superior technology. The issue here is timing. Very, very few current games fully utilize even AGP8X, let alone PCI-E at resolutions most people run at, so the claim that PCI-E is needed right now is pure unadulterated BS.

2) Gutting high-end AGP systems right now is a very dumb idea, as AM2 and Conroe will entail yet another mobo/CPU replacement sometime within the next six months; and

3) Many millions of high-end system owners are more heavily invested in AGP than just a mobo, CPU and video card. Nvidia and ATI should continue to allow these people to get more return on their sizeable investments.
 
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