Thanks Elon you screwed us

Sergius648

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It blows my mind that people still have the same shallow arguments against Bitcoin that they had in 2013, as if nothing has changed since then. I guess that's what happens when you don't take the time to understand something new - you miss out.

Ok, what exactly do you "miss out" on? An investment "opportunity"?
 

blade52x

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What changed ?

Since institutions and Elon are now involved - I honestly no longer care to explain. You're on your own at this point - either do it yourself or continue to take the same 7-year old shallow opinions as compelling reasons to continue to be against it. I don't care. I just couldn't help but to point out my previous comment.
 

LukeTbk

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Since institutions and Elon are now involved - I honestly no longer care to explain. You're on your own at this point - either do it yourself or continue to take the same 7-year old shallow opinions as compelling reasons to continue to be against it. I don't care. I just couldn't help but to point out my previous comment.
It got more popular with everyone and since the beginning everyone said it will be valuable by how much popular it is, that reality seem to be constant. Why insinuate that anyone is against its ?
 

x509

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Like him or not History says don't underestimate Elon Musk, he pretty much wins at everything he does.
Maybe he will figure out a way to do mining on Tesla cars. LOL.

Everything Elon has done up to now has been with companies he controls, and micro-manages. BTC is completely different.
 
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Hmmm. I wonder how much ebay will buy a RX590 for...

Edit: Ehhhh... only $100 more than I paid. Might as well hang on to it.
 

IcePickFreak

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It blows my mind that people still have the same shallow arguments against Bitcoin that they had in 2013, as if nothing has changed since then. I guess that's what happens when you don't take the time to understand something new - you miss out.
What, we gonna move away from fiat currency to crypto and our accounts will sometimes increase 5% overnight, just because? We'll still be able to just get some computers to run for 6 months to somehow be able to pay an entire crew of other people to work for 12 months building us a house?

Cryptos only value is it's wild speculation against those evil fiat currencies that actual work and creation of wealth is paid in. You get rid of them and move to crypto then either the crypto party is over, or things are about to go south really quick.
 

bigbluefe

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It blows my mind that people still have the same shallow arguments against Bitcoin that they had in 2013, as if nothing has changed since then. I guess that's what happens when you don't take the time to understand something new - you miss out.

Since institutions and Elon are now involved - I honestly no longer care to explain. You're on your own at this point - either do it yourself or continue to take the same 7-year old shallow opinions as compelling reasons to continue to be against it. I don't care. I just couldn't help but to point out my previous comment.

Blows my mind that anyone would take a transparent pyramid scheme seriously because some dweeb who said Covid would be gone by last summer is speculating on it.
 

M76

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You all know that this is bigger than GPUs right? If crypto keeps growing it will threaten much more than gamers and their precious GPUs. Crypto is basically taking resources and dumping it in a landfill and not showing anything for it.

Maybe this way I can get it trough:

Imagine being in a desert with limited water supplies. And the crypto guy is using it to shower all day long, letting it seep into the ground, it's only a matter of time before we all stand around with perched lips, including the crypto guy.

And no, the water is not an analogy for GPUs, it is an analogy for every resource that is dumped into mining monopoly money, including the electricity used, the facilities bogged down to generate that electricity, the resources that go into building mining rigs, all utterly wasted for nothing. This is not insanity, this is much worse than that. This is the doomsday weapon of capitalism. Turning resources into money directly without the byproduct of providing services or creating goods.
 

noko

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I see Elon has vision, one day Bitcoin will not be compared to the dollar but the dollar compared to the Bitcoin :D. Now it is hard for me to believe Bitcoin will be the one Crypto coin or king long term, other coins are way more advance and useful. Anyways any two people can transfer Bitcoin to each other anywhere in the world where you have Internet access, do that with the dollar. Tesla can totally bypass the banks, financial institutions, currency exchange, be utterly discreet, go straight company to company without any middle guy and the record would be kept perfect for the transaction.

What are the energy cost of all the banks, central banks, employees traveling to and fro, endless printing and reprinting of money, counting, storing, movement using vehicles money from one place to another, production of coins, the metal mined, machinery built to make the money as well as the cost of all the buildings and energy used to build them and run them? hmmmm.

There are some very solid arguments against crypto currency, I just don't see them mentioned.
 

Andrew_Carr

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Tesla announced in an SEC filing Monday that it has bought $1.5 billion worth of bitcoin.

2020 will never end.


I will not be able to get rid of this 2080 for octane render till 2022 it seems.
No one has really used GPUs for bitcoin mining for many years. ETH or some shitcoins maybe, but not bitcoin.
 

edo101

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I really wish I had bought a 2080 Ti right when the prices dropped. So little did I know. My 1080Ti is grasping for breath trying to play new games in 4K
 

Mystique

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I see Elon has vision, one day Bitcoin will not be compared to the dollar but the dollar compared to the Bitcoin :D. Now it is hard for me to believe Bitcoin will be the one Crypto coin or king long term, other coins are way more advance and useful. Anyways any two people can transfer Bitcoin to each other anywhere in the world where you have Internet access, do that with the dollar. Tesla can totally bypass the banks, financial institutions, currency exchange, be utterly discreet, go straight company to company without any middle guy and the record would be kept perfect for the transaction.

What are the energy cost of all the banks, central banks, employees traveling to and fro, endless printing and reprinting of money, counting, storing, movement using vehicles money from one place to another, production of coins, the metal mined, machinery built to make the money as well as the cost of all the buildings and energy used to build them and run them? hmmmm.

There are some very solid arguments against crypto currency, I just don't see them mentioned.
1) People already compare the BTC to the BTC. It's futures are traded and CNBC won't stfu about it. Still, that doesn't stop it from having 0 intrinsic value, as it is backed by less than nothing. It will always be useless trash that has no value outside of speculation. It is often compared as a substitute for gold, except at least gold has physical value, not just speculative value.

2) There's no doubt we'll be heading towards a digital coin at some point. I doubt it will be mineable though. I don't see paper money or coins going anywhere for a while, until America decides the tipping phenomenon is unethical and stupid; so it will just be in addition to. That being said, the current GPU shortage, and power spent to mine bitcoins actually doesn't help anyone at all, whereas fiat is a instrument of the market in a society, so it's needed. BTC is literally not needed, and nobody would miss it if one day you woke up and forgot it existed.

3) Nothing is inherently wrong with cryptocurrency, just bitcoin and its ilk. Crypto is the future of payments, but BTC is not. BTC is a gambling instrument that accelerates the decay of our planet for no good reason.

One thing worth understanding is that Tesla may have BTC, may allow purchase in BTC, but I would almost guarantee that when you pay for a car with cryptocurrency, they are then going to exchange that to $USD almost immediately, if not already done at POS. No company with a brain accepts a volatile currency otherwise you're just speculating with your products then. If that's what they're doing, then Musk is not using his brain and the shareholders will send him a loud message one day.

P.S. Anyone saying "BTC will go up, you're old and stupid and missing out". Sure I can buy a winning lottery ticket too. I don't gamble, sorry.
 
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sk3tch

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"Mineable" is the core element that is important - the decentralization. If you adopt a cryptocurrency that does not have a public digital ledger (blockchain) that is verified independently by other operators on the blockchain - then good luck to you. May as well just use the dollar.

It's never too late to get into crypto and invest. I started in December after many years of being involved by on the sidelines (I am very risk averse). Read up on it and learn about it before you use terms like pyramid scheme and pump and dump (and yes, there's such a thing as "bad" crypto - DOGE, as an example).

Get yourself the Coinbase app, get $10 in free BTC. It's easy and fully FDIC insured. Check it out...learn about different projects...find one you believe in. This is what got me started: https://www.helium.com/.
 

Archaea

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I just don't understand why he'd invest that much into in now vs say earlier last year. Seems an odd time to be putting that much in.

"Hmm Bitcoin is at an all time high, think I'll buy now."

I guess assuming it will reach much higher prices, but just seems rather irresponsible to me as well.
Institution money is going to start coming to Bitcoin, as a hedge against the existing world fiat inflation. Because there is almost no institutional money now, even a little bit, say 1%, will make BTC soar. Musk is good at reading tea leaves. He’s boarding the proverbial train before it has even arrived at the station. From an institutional perspective he’s a very early adopter. As world currencies continually inflate, BTC becomes more valuable against those currencies since it’s a finite amount.
Two things to note that I’ve read recently. If only 500 companies in the world, the S&P 500 put in 1% of their cash to BTC it would jump another ~ $40K per coin. If BTC had parity to gold it would be worth $300k to $400k per coin(depending on source you read). As more companies take a very cautious and minimal interest and adoption to BTC, that will spread like wildfire. Musk sees the writing on the wall, as typical, before the rest.

Watch this, it’s a recent CEO conference that speaks plainly to the coming adoption of BTC by institutional money.

original link:
https://www.microstrategy.com/en/bitcoin/videos/bitcoin-macro-strategy

Also on YouTube
 
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Aegir

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I've always been in the "crypto scene," although I've never gotten rich.
Instead, I found Steem and Hive, which is a writer's paradise. Upvotes = mining.
And the primary content is writing.

The mining hardware itself, or rather, the "witness nodes," only process what they need to process.
I don't really know how it all works, but when it comes to a blockchain that doesn't waste resources like electricity and graphics cards, I have to give a solid approval towards Steem, or what is now Hive.
Apparently there was some political fork, where the "true community" switched to Hive after Steem got bought by a private entity. I don't care much for politics, but it is what it is.
 

Balzac

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You all know that this is bigger than GPUs right? If crypto keeps growing it will threaten much more than gamers and their precious GPUs. Crypto is basically taking resources and dumping it in a landfill and not showing anything for it.

Maybe this way I can get it trough:

Imagine being in a desert with limited water supplies. And the crypto guy is using it to shower all day long, letting it seep into the ground, it's only a matter of time before we all stand around with perched lips, including the crypto guy.

And no, the water is not an analogy for GPUs, it is an analogy for every resource that is dumped into mining monopoly money, including the electricity used, the facilities bogged down to generate that electricity, the resources that go into building mining rigs, all utterly wasted for nothing. This is not insanity, this is much worse than that. This is the doomsday weapon of capitalism. Turning resources into money directly without the byproduct of providing services or creating goods.

propaganda.jpg
 

Andrew_Carr

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I don't even get the value in bitcoins. Seems like they're just used for shady stuff.

I'll try to answer this in two parts:
1.) Is bitcoin a currency?
2.) Is bitcoin a store of value?


Part 1: Is it a currency? Yes
If you review any basic definition of a currency you'll probably find it needs to have attributes like the following:
1.) Durability: Your money doesn't fall apart or die of a disease easily
2.) Portability: ease of movement/transfer
3.) Divisibility: You can subdivide it for smaller purchases
4.) Uniformity: 1 unit of currency = 1 unit of currency
5.) Limited Supply: The quantity of the currency won't double overnight or something
6.) Acceptability: Trust between a group of people that it is worth something


Items 1 through 4 are pretty much solved problems across the world. You can print coins, difficult to counterfeit notes, etc. of varying denominations and they're all pretty durable and generally easily moved around. With the advent of phone lines, internet, etc. virtual transfers of money between distant places becomes even easier. But throughout history we keep running into problems with items 5 and 6. Currencies have faced regular problems with devaluation by political leaders (usually it seems to be caused by an attempt to solve some crisis such as funding for wars, etc.). Coinage that originally was 1oz of 99% pure silver would become 1oz of 50% silver, sometimes secretly, and without any change to the face value of the coin. This causes issues with Acceptability or trust. Eventually people realize that the new coins are worth less than the old coins, so they require more of the new coins vs less of the old ones, but holders of the old coins are still screwed to an extent because their currency has been devalued by half and they weren't compensated. Fiat currency brings in an additional layer complication, because now there is even less of a tie to a physical store of value. Your currency is still valuable so long as people believe is is (Acceptability), and you still have to pay your taxes in it which gives it some value, but there is now no physical limitation to your politicians printing as many bank notes as they wish (you can really go off the rails when it comes to point #5 and reach hyperinflation). If your country goes "bankrupt" like Zimbabwe then your money is now worth zero; you can't even melt it down and sell it for some other currency. In short, you're at the mercy of the poor decisions of others.

Some people think that fiat currency inevitably trends towards hyperinflation so they set out to solve this problem with bitcoin (read the famous "Genesis" block). It's durable, it's portable, it's divisible, and it's uniform. So just like coinage or historical currencies it will work, but what about devaluation and the hyperinflation problems it's trying to solve? Well it's also fixed to a limited supply of 21 million coins and it's decentralized so no one person or group can change it or control it, while being virtually unforgeable/fakeable. This means that in theory, it will be stronger than fiat currency or coinage when it comes to items #5 and #6. Your 1 bitcoin will always be worth 1 bitcoin.

Anyway, we know the supply is limited and you can sell 1 bitcoin for about $47,000 right now and its value has trended upwards for about 12 years so I would say it has pointed 5 and 6 covered as well and is, in fact, a currency. The greatest point of contention is with requirement #6 due to the amount of volatility in how much it is actually worth.


Part 2: Store of value (Acceptability)
But what value does it have? A currency needs to store a value that other people recognize and accept, and bitcoin is just digits on the internet somewhere, so why is it worth anything? Well fiat isn't inherently worth anything either really, but I'll try to explain why bitcoin has value. And remember, people just need to think something has value for it to be valuable.

The concept of proof of work (dedicating computing power to the bitcoin system via 'mining') means the cost of producing a bitcoin gives it an inherent value related to the real world (electricity costs, capital costs like ASICs, faciltiies, etc. all contribute to a total cost to 'mine'). It costs something to make, so you can either pay someone for the money they dumped into creating their coins or you can try your own hand at creating them, but either way the energy cost is basically the same as long as you're both equally efficient. In fact, instead of thinking of bitcoin as some ethereal virtual currency, think of it as a ledger documenting people's contribution of computing power / electricity and giving them something in return. In 2011 if I dumped 1 kilowatt hour of power ($0.10) and 1 hour of computing time with a high end GPU (let's say $0.01) into creating 1 bitcoin, then you could say a bitcoin is worth approximately $0.11 because that's what it would cost you to reproduce my results or buy it from me at the lowest cost I would sell it at. Now that everyone is in on the game, it might cost me $47,000 of combined electricity, ASICs, business permits, etc. to produce a single bitcoin. So let's say the price jumps to around $47,000. But we're talking about this in terms of U.S. dollars, which inflate at a different rate. At the end of the day, the bitcoin I produced in 2011 at the cost of $0.11 and the bitcoin I produced in 2021 at the cost of $47,000 are worth the same: 1 bitcoin. My creation of new bitcoins isn't destroying the old bitcoin's value via unpredictable inflation.


Summary:
The appeal is that it provides an alternative to fiat currencies and the dangers of hyperinflation due to political screw-ups or economic crises (examples: 1920s Germany, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, etc.). You also won't be beholden to VISA, Mastercard, or banking institutions for how you are allowed to spend your money. I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but the idea behind bitcoin I think is inherently political because it's an attempt to take the power over the money supply away from politicians and bankers (or else it's a really clever ploy to track everyone's spending habits online). If we look at the situation in the United States right now, the currency supply of U.S. dollars has gone from an estimated $15.34 Trillion at the beginning of 2020 to over $20 Trillion today and counting. I don't know about you but I haven't gotten a 33% raise in the last year to make up for that, I haven't been given money to cover the devaluation of my liquid cash, and I do foresee myself paying 33% higher prices for many things (or getting 33% smaller candy bars, bags of chips, etc. like has been happening for years).

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CURRCIR
fed money supply 2020 pre biden.jpg
 

Mystique

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Messages
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"Mineable" is the core element that is important - the decentralization. If you adopt a cryptocurrency that does not have a public digital ledger (blockchain) that is verified independently by other operators on the blockchain - then good luck to you. May as well just use the dollar.

It's never too late to get into crypto and invest. I started in December after many years of being involved by on the sidelines (I am very risk averse). Read up on it and learn about it before you use terms like pyramid scheme and pump and dump (and yes, there's such a thing as "bad" crypto - DOGE, as an example).

Get yourself the Coinbase app, get $10 in free BTC. It's easy and fully FDIC insured. Check it out...learn about different projects...find one you believe in. This is what got me started: https://www.helium.com/.
You do realize that the central bank isn't going to turn our currency into a speculative asset. Mining doesn't help stability. Not every coin is minable, most stablecoins such as Tether, aren't. An economy doesn't work with volaility as a currency.

I was on the crypto wagon many years ago, and bought XRP through many cycles. I don't need to read about bitcoin to know that 45k is way overvalued, for something worth 0$. I don't chase stocks like $TSLA, which is just as overvalued, so why would I ever want to do that with something even more speculative?

No matter how much you read, there's 2 facts: 1) it's gambling and 2) it is worth absolutely nothing.

Pass. Bitcoin could shoot to 100k and I wouldn't have missed out. It's a lottery ticket. Gamblers gonna gamble. Might as well buy $GME or do options.
 

Andrew_Carr

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I know more than enough about crtyp

You do realize that the central bank isn't going to turn our currency into a speculative asset. Mining doesn't help stability. Not every coin is minable, most stablecoins such as Tether, aren't. An economy doesn't work with volaility as a currency.

I was on the crypto wagon many years ago, and bought XRP through many cycles. I don't need to read about bitcoin to know that 45k is way overvalued, for something worth 0$. I don't chase stocks like $TSLA, which is just as overvalued, so why would I ever want to do that with something even more speculative?

No matter how much you read, there's 2 facts: 1) it's gambling and 2) it is worth absolutely nothing.

Pass.
The entire stock market is gambling as well. If you think TSLA and Bitcoin are overvalued then just short sell them and get rich.
 

Mystique

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The entire stock market is gambling as well. If you think TSLA and Bitcoin are overvalued then just short sell them and get rich.
At least some of the stocks there, on a normal day, have a real company, with moderately fair valuations there.

It may "feel" like gambling, and the results are unclear, but you at least, are investing in a company, in theory, and the share price eventually will match that investment. There's rewards such as dividends, which are real, and companies have earnings reports. With Bitcoin, you're investing in speculation alone.

Also, I don't short. Calling the top of stuff is next to impossible, and unlimited losses is for suckers. Want the stock market to feel less like gambling? Stop buying volatile instruments, and learn about growth stocks, or recovery plays, etc. Your 401k is an example of the stock market's intent; before Robinhood had you micromanaging multi-legged option trades every 5 minutes during work.

Compare 20Y SPY to 20Y BTC. One might be a FOMO YOLO SWAG, but I want the one that isn't that, tyvm. It tanked 75% before, and it may well do it again, or worse, who knows when. Probably not soon, but I don't gamble so I really don't need to care.
 
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Andrew_Carr

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At least some of the stocks there, on a normal day, have a real company, with moderately fair valuations there.

It may "feel" like gambling, and the results are unclear, but you at least, are investing in a company, in theory, and the share price eventually will match that investment. With Bitcoin, you're investing in speculation alone.

Also, I don't short. Calling the top of stuff is next to impossible, and unlimited losses is for suckers. Want the stock market to feel less like gambling? Stop buying volatile instruments, and learn about growth stocks, or recovery plays, etc. Your 401k is an example of the stock market's intent.

Unless you're investing in stocks that return dividends how is it different than gambling? You're placing a bet ($) on a guess (stock goes the direction you want) in the hope for a future payoff. It doesn't matter why it goes up/down (good "fundamentals", hype for future business, memes like DOGE) all that matters is that it goes in the direction you want it to go in and you sell out in time. My 401k functions the exact same way, except it's more intelligent and well-connected people doing the betting on my behalf with better access to information and generally on less volatile stocks.
 

Archaea

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Mystique

watch that video I linked a few posts above. Watch it at 1.25 or 1.5x speed if you want. Report back and let’s engage in some real dialogue. You keep saying BTC is worth 0. It’s obvious that’s not true. I see you throwing a lot of negatives around, but not getting any of the positives that have allowed BTC to obtain value.

also — I see several in here saying BTC isn’t supported/administered by any government so it has no value. Umm. Think about that for a minute. It’s actually the opposite. Being an independent store of value or currency in a open source mathematically proven and unbreakable capacity — that isn’t propped up or reliant on any single government, yet can be used worldwide, and cannot be stopped by any entity (so long as you have internet) is actually a major reason why it actually does have value, and continues to gain value.
 

Mystique

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Unless you're investing in stocks that return dividends how is it different than gambling? You're placing a bet ($) on a guess (stock goes the direction you want) in the hope for a future payoff. It doesn't matter why it goes up (good "fundamentals", hype for future business, memes like DOGE) all that matters is that it goes in the direction you want it to go in and you sell out in time. My 401k functions the exact same way, except it's more intelligent and well-connected people doing the betting on my behalf with better access to information and generally on less volatile stocks.
Yeah, I mean as I said before, I do invest in dividend and growth stocks. It is a 'hope' for future pay off in some ways, but for me, it is a hedge against inflation mostly. For the recovery plays, you're investing in a real company, that's worth a significant amount of money, at a good discount hopefully. If you buy bitcoin on the dip, you're rolling out another lottery ticket sequence witrh nothing but technical analysis and memes as DD.

I avoid stuff like $TSLA like the plague, because of it's volatility and the fact it's overvalued 1000%. If you buy DOGE you're literally throwing money at something even more useless than bitcoin. Elon musk can have fun tweeting about dogs and whatever, but it doesn't change that fact.

The fact that you are comparing bitcoin to stocks makes me nauseous. There is more to the stock market than gambling, otherwise it wouldn't be a job for millions of people. The whole "well-connected" thing is more like "well educated, and goal reacher". That's why people can retire in this country. Not bitcoin.
 

Mr. Bluntman

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Starbucks, man. Starbucks... :)
Starbucks coffee has always tasted burnt to me. There's local places that serve much better coffee for half the price.

On topic, I guess the best I can hope for is finding a used 1080 Ti for way more than I want to pay, but I have a feeling that the 6GB of my current card will become an even greater bottleneck than it already is.

EDIT: I've never really had the money to invest, but part of me wishes I had pumped $20 in when bitcoin first was a thing. If I had held onto it I'd be set for life now. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Back to GPU prices, I just have to say, thanks Elon, you prick.
 
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Aegir

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People overly biased in either direction don't really appeal to my intellectual or philosophical side.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is either impassioned, but balanced, or just mildly interested, and can still easily notice when some people seem to have a religious fervor for or against cryptocurrency.

Or any topic for that matter.
If it seems obvious to you that some people have a rather intense opinion which sees only positives or only negatives, and has no room for compromise, then like and subscribe. Hit that bell icon for more cool Aegir content.
 

Mystique

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Mystique

watch that video I linked a few posts above. Watch it at 1.25 or 1.5x speed if you want. Report back and let’s engage in some real dialogue. You keep saying BTC is worth 0. It’s obvious that’s not true. I see you throwing a lot of negatives around, but not getting any of the positives that have allowed BTC to obtain value.

also — I see several in here saying BTC isn’t supported/administered by any government so it has no value. Umm. Think about that for a minute. It’s actually the opposite. Being an independent store of value or currency in a open source mathematically proven and unbreakable capacity — that isn’t propped up or reliant on any single government, yet can be used worldwide, and cannot be stopped by any entity (so long as you have internet) is actually a major reason why it actually does have value, and continues to gain value.
So, you linked me a 1 hour video, but didn't tell me it's not true.

How is it not true?

How is it not worth 0$?

Please explain me, without linking a one hour bitcoin echo chamber hype videos, how much a hash is actually worth, if you remove speculation?

Also, I skipped through it, and it spent a long time talking about payments. Good for them, literally every crypto can be used for payments. Every currency can have hash challenges. Why is bitcoins worth more than the next persons? Why is it worth anything at all?

You can still use BTC for payments when it's worth 1 cent. What 'amazing' tech is there? Even ethereum is better from purely a tech pov. Monero lets you do illegal stuff. So what does BTC do?

Also, it can be stopped. In India, the government is/just stopping it.
 
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Archaea

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So, you linked me a 1 hour video, but didn't tell me it's not true.

How is it not true?

How is it not worth 0$?

Please explain me, without linking a one hour bitcoin echo chamber hype videos, how much a hash is actually worth, if you remove speculation?

Also, I skipped through it, and it spent a long time talking about payments. Good for them, literally every crypto can be used for payments.

Engage your own brain.
I won’t engage with you on this until you at least attempt to watch the video. Seeing that you spent about 1-2 minutes max based for an hour long conference. It’s relevant to the discussion, and your specific stated concerns with BTC, on many fronts, and answers many of the questions you are seeking. Then why would I retype that here. I said watch it and let’s have an earnest discussion with your subsequent questions. If you aren’t interested in learning more through given resources then it’s your loss to ignore it. Not mine. Why would I engage with you? If situation was reversed would you engage with someone who clearly wouldn’t make even a modicum of effort to understand the counterpoints? After you’ve watched it, then as I said - I’m willing to fully engage.

You mentioned you like dividend stock as a hedge against inflation. Consider BTC a very clear alternative hedge against the certain coming inflation. The video clearly explains this (and other things).


edit for your edit
India’s Supreme Court overturned the ban, and the ban had no teeth anyway. If an Indian citizen had internet and a VPN connection, then they could continue to use crypto, because with crypto/BTC you can be your own bank, you don’t need any third parties or institutional exchanges. Do you understand they cannot stop it, at worst only make it go underground — unless they plan to take internet away from their citizens.

BTC has value because people have assigned it value over time. Look up historic currencies. Seashells, coconuts, rocks, chickens, soup, labor, salt, promises, paper, etc. Currency has value in that someone knows they can trust one thing they posses to have value to exchange for something else they want at a future time. Various properties can make something trustworthy as a currency (government backing, edible, beauty, scarcity, in the case of crypto integrity due to math - whatever). Humans decide what form currency takes. And Humans have decided that BTCs value over the last 12 years is increasingly not 0.

BTC has many advantages, and some disadvantages. BTCs primary advantages are, IMO, driven at its root by open source math (this isn’t closed black box source code - anyone can review how it works and all agree unbreakable - thus creating integrity and trust which gives it the ability to hold value), the inability for any government to control it - and its subsequent Worldwide adoption, the ability to be your own bank and not use third parties, brokers, money exchangers, etc, (I’ve bought a few things from China with Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash without having use a exchange service or broker), finally the ability of a common man to participate and in the independent and widespread distribution of the infrastructure and immutable open ledger. There are other tokens that do these things, and more. BTC was the first, has the widest adoption and brand recognition/mindshare. I don’t think BTC is the final single global currency, but I also don’t think it’s anywhere near peaked on its adoption cycle and value. It's still only the beginning.
 
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Mystique

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
271
I won’t engage with you on this until you at least attempt to watch the video. Seeing that you spent about 1-2 minutes max based for an hour long conference. It’s relevant to the discussion, and your specific stated concerns with BTC, on many fronts, and answers many of the questions you are seeking. Then why would I retype that here. I said watch it and let’s have an earnest discussion with your subsequent questions. If you aren’t interested in learning more through given resources then it’s your loss to ignore it. Not mine. Why would I engage with you? If situation was reversed would you engage with someone who clearly wouldn’t make even a modicum of effort to understand the counterpoints?

You mentioned you like dividend stock as a hedge against inflation. Consider BTC a very clear alternative hedge against the certain coming inflation. The video clearly explains this (and other things).
No offense, but if you can't type it here, then it is not substiantive enough to put into words. You have to feel the emotion, and that's not for me.
 

Andrew_Carr

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
1,785
Yeah, I mean as I said before, I do invest in dividend and growth stocks. It is a 'hope' for future pay off in some ways, but for me, it is a hedge against inflation mostly. For the recovery plays, you're investing in a real company, that's worth a significant amount of money, at a good discount hopefully. If you buy bitcoin on the dip, you're rolling out another lottery ticket sequence witrh nothing but technical analysis and memes as DD.

I avoid stuff like $TSLA like the plague, because of it's volatility and the fact it's overvalued 1000%. If you buy DOGE you're literally throwing money at something even more useless than bitcoin. Elon musk can have fun tweeting about dogs and whatever, but it doesn't change that fact.

The fact that you are comparing bitcoin to stocks makes me nauseous. There is more to the stock market than gambling, otherwise it wouldn't be a job for millions of people. The whole "well-connected" thing is more like "well educated, and goal reacher". That's why people can retire in this country. Not bitcoin.

I made a good return on DOGE, only because I sold early like a retard and didn't make a 2,000% return instead.

"A small bitcoin addition to a 60% equity/40% bond blended portfolio significantly reduced portfolio volatility during the recent market sell-off."
https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-volatility-vs-other-assets/
https://www.vaneck.com/blogs/digital-assets/bitcoin-less-volatile-than-many-sp-500-stocks/
https://www.vaneck.com/blogs/digita...old-jumps-in-2020/?country=us&audience=retail
 

Archaea

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
10,905
No offense, but if you can't type it here, then it is not substiantive enough to put into words. You have to feel the emotion, and that's not for me.
Feel nothing.

logic is what that video is about.

can lead a horse to water, but can’t make it drink.
 

Mystique

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
271
I made a good return on DOGE, only because I sold early like a retard and didn't make a 2,000% return instead.

"A small bitcoin addition to a 60% equity/40% bond blended portfolio significantly reduced portfolio volatility during the recent market sell-off."
https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-volatility-vs-other-assets/
https://www.vaneck.com/blogs/digital-assets/bitcoin-less-volatile-than-many-sp-500-stocks/
https://www.vaneck.com/blogs/digita...old-jumps-in-2020/?country=us&audience=retail
Gain is a gain! Good trade. I appreciate the sentiment of diversity in holding assets. Even if I would hold something else, personally, this is how I would do it.

Feel nothing.

logic is what that video is about.

can lead a horse to water, but can’t make it drink.
Yeah, okay, edgelord. Thanks for the lesson on youtube videos. Really.. "logic"?? ... That's what is escaping my brain when you won't answer a simple question with a sentence. But I'll be the horse, since this well is dried up.
 
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Andrew_Carr

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
1,785
So, you linked me a 1 hour video, but didn't tell me it's not true.

How is it not true?

How is it not worth 0$?

Please explain me, without linking a one hour bitcoin echo chamber hype videos, how much a hash is actually worth, if you remove speculation?

Also, I skipped through it, and it spent a long time talking about payments. Good for them, literally every crypto can be used for payments. Every currency can have hash challenges. Why is bitcoins worth more than the next persons? Why is it worth anything at all?

You can still use BTC for payments when it's worth 1 cent. What 'amazing' tech is there? Even ethereum is better from purely a tech pov. Monero lets you do illegal stuff. So what does BTC do?

Also, it can be stopped. In India, the government is/just stopping it.
Ethereum is arguably not decentralized and the coming ETH 2.0 is going to further ruin the coin for the majority of people (IMO). I've never been a fan of Ethereum though (aside from it making ASIC mining uneconomical). I see it as a wolf in sheep's clothing, and if I were investing money I would legitimately invest it in DOGE over ETH (at least DOGE has meme potential for occasional pump & dumps).

Here's a good blog post on the issues with ETH 2.0:
 
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