tf2 update will have crafting. lol

gentoo said:
You do realize that these are likely two completely different teams.



I'm with you on this. I think the game is and has always been great despite what Valve does with it. I'll keep playing as I'm sure the rest of the raging community will be doing as well.
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I agree they need to halt the updates and get done or get working on Episode 3...I know they are a small company and don't have tons of people working on it but still...
The difference between episode 1 and 2 was 1 year, 4 months, 9 days, So far the difference between episode 2 and episode 3 is 2 years, 2 months, 4 days and counting...

(I do like the updates though but could do without them)
 
I really don't understand why people are bitching about this update, specifically the crafting part. It in no way changes the core gameplay. It just allows a different way of obtaining items besides random luck. You don't even have to use it if you don't want to. Seriously, what's so horrible about it? Besides the fallacious (and ridiculous) slippery slope argument of it turning into an MMO.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
Yes annoyed with lack of teamwork, but the problem stems from the fact that a single engineer can put up a defence that multiple people need to assault. That's not balanced when you need multiple people taking on one sentry, it doesn't even scale linearly, 2 sentries in the same area aren't twice as hard to kill, all of a sudden spies become useless and assaulting is even harder.
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Sentry Guns aren't that hard to take down. A gun is really pretty stupid- you can attack it freely as long as you're not in its line of sight, and I've seen pistol wielding engies and scouts take down L3 guns. (I popped one with a syringe gun once)


PrincessFrosty said:
It just means defence is a lot easier than assault, in so much that one requires way more teamwork and teamwork is scares on most servers, sure there are "good" servers where good players regular but if I just want to pick the game up and have a dos about that's not helpful.
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Defense is NEVER easy against coordinated numbers. You can't simply just sit there and tank your gun/dispenser against an Ubered demo. And there's this class called spy who can ruin your day in a heartbeat. And even the worst pub servers have people playing medics and engies working together. Even the most disorganized servers have players calling threats over voice like "Spy-Engie ramp room" or "Kritz-Demo sewer-stairs"

It really sounds as if you object to the "TEAM" aspect in Team Fortress 2. If you just want to "pick up and have a dos" play CS or MW.
 
Saturn_V said:
Sentry Guns aren't that hard to take down. A gun is really pretty stupid- you can attack it freely as long as you're not in its line of sight, and I've seen pistol wielding engies and scouts take down L3 guns. (I popped one with a syringe gun once)

Defense is NEVER easy against coordinated numbers. You can't simply just sit there and tank your gun/dispenser against an Ubered demo. And there's this class called spy who can ruin your day in a heartbeat. And even the worst pub servers have people playing medics and engies working together. Even the most disorganized servers have players calling threats over voice like "Spy-Engie ramp room" or "Kritz-Demo sewer-stairs"

It really sounds as if you object to the "TEAM" aspect in Team Fortress 2. If you just want to "pick up and have a dos" play CS or MW.
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I don't personally find it that hard to kill sentries single handedly, just take a demo and pop some stickies and boom, dead. The only time its a trouble is when there's multiple sentries in hard to reach places, all getting repaired by engineers and theres spam coming at you constantly, which is the case a lot of the time actually.

I don't object to the "team" in team fortress 2, I just think that the defence requires WAY less team work, engineers just dump down a single sentry in a reasonably decent spot which requires little or no team work due to round set up time, and then all of a sudden you have little defensive line that most newbs cannot pass, it requires people working together to take it down, so it's lop sided one team requires teamwork but another doesn't, the defenders can just spam rockets and grenades and set up sentries more or less willynilly.

Thats why I think the engineer needs an overhaul, maybe you need 2 engineers working on 1 turrent to get it to level 2, and 3 to level 3 etc, right now it's easy to camp in a pub server behind a L3 sentry and just out-repair any damage you take.
 
The game is fine but why do there have to be goofy things like hats and also some of the weapons- Sandvich, Bonk, Jarate, as well as some of the other weapons. The game becomes goofier with each update. For some reason, it just takes away the fun from me.
 
Yeah, haven't played TF2 since a little before their latest patching spree. Used to play it so damn much too, but it just lost it's appeal to me.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
Thats why I think the engineer needs an overhaul, maybe you need 2 engineers working on 1 turrent to get it to level 2, and 3 to level 3 etc, right now it's easy to camp in a pub server behind a L3 sentry and just out-repair any damage you take.
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Heh, and while we're at it. If you want to use 8 stickies at once as a demoman, you need 7 other demoman. Otherwise you're limited to 1 sticky. Soldiers can't rocket jump unless another soldier shoots at their feet. Scouts can't double jump without another scout to jump on. Medics can't heal one target unless two medics are healing him, and can't uber unless there's 3 medics on the team with uber charge ready. Spies can't backstab unless there's 2 spies, can't cloak unless there is 3 spies. Sniper's can't zoom in without another sniper, and can't hit anything unless another sniper helps them aim. Pyro's flame gun will only fire for 1 foot out per number of pyros on the team, 2 pyros = 2 feet, 10 pyros = 10 feet. Heavy guns won't actually rotate unless there's another heavy near to physically spin it.


Should lead to some fun games with all that teamwork to just play....or something.
 
veterator said:
Heh, and while we're at it. If you want to use 8 stickies at once as a demoman, you need 7 other demoman. Otherwise you're limited to 1 sticky. Soldiers can't rocket jump unless another soldier shoots at their feet. Scouts can't double jump without another scout to jump on. Medics can't heal one target unless two medics are healing him, and can't uber unless there's 3 medics on the team with uber charge ready. Spies can't backstab unless there's 2 spies, can't cloak unless there is 3 spies. Sniper's can't zoom in without another sniper, and can't hit anything unless another sniper helps them aim. Pyro's flame gun will only fire for 1 foot out per number of pyros on the team, 2 pyros = 2 feet, 10 pyros = 10 feet. Heavy guns won't actually rotate unless there's another heavy near to physically spin it.


Should lead to some fun games with all that teamwork to just play....or something.
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Ok, now that's just plain silly!:D
 
I for one can't wait to stick three of my flawless duplicate weapons into my horadric cube to make myself a perfect one!
 
veterator said:
Heh, and while we're at it. If you want to use 8 stickies at once as a demoman, you need 7 other demoman. Otherwise you're limited to 1 sticky. Soldiers can't rocket jump unless another soldier shoots at their feet. Scouts can't double jump without another scout to jump on. Medics can't heal one target unless two medics are healing him, and can't uber unless there's 3 medics on the team with uber charge ready. Spies can't backstab unless there's 2 spies, can't cloak unless there is 3 spies. Sniper's can't zoom in without another sniper, and can't hit anything unless another sniper helps them aim. Pyro's flame gun will only fire for 1 foot out per number of pyros on the team, 2 pyros = 2 feet, 10 pyros = 10 feet. Heavy guns won't actually rotate unless there's another heavy near to physically spin it.


Should lead to some fun games with all that teamwork to just play....or something.
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My point was the engineer as a SINGLE class is expected to be countered by SEVERAL of the opposing team in almost all tactics.

However the coordination for SEVERAL people to work together on a pub server is rare, which is why we see a few engineers locking down a lot of the map and the attacking team basically running against a brick wall constantly unitl the round ends despite even numbered teams.
 
Harkamus said:
Ok, now that's just plain silly!:D
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Just imagine the conversations, OK....I need 5 stickies to take out the other teams 6 engineer's two level 3 sentry guns. Probably will need an uber too. So we need 1 more medic so the two healing me can uber charge......and the rest of the team go demoman so I can get those 5 stickies. You two heavies go demo, you obviously don't know how to rotate the gun properly to kill anything.


Meanwhile on the other team. 6 people screaming over voice, I NEED METAL, SOMEONE BUILD A DISPENSER.

What do you suppose 6 engineers that can only build 2 level 3 sentries would look like.....a sentry gun circled by dispensers, circled by teleporters with the entrance one in and the exit on the outer ring, so as the spies approach they get teleported back?

Might be fun, all I know is those guns would go up fast with 3 engineers wrenching em.
 
The sandwich buff is so amazing. When I see a soldier I just start eating my sandwich because he can't kill me unless he crits me.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
My point was the engineer as a SINGLE class is expected to be countered by SEVERAL of the opposing team in almost all tactics.

However the coordination for SEVERAL people to work together on a pub server is rare, which is why we see a few engineers locking down a lot of the map and the attacking team basically running against a brick wall constantly unitl the round ends despite even numbered teams.
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Usually two people max is all that's needed to take out one engineer and his gun. Now when people complain about needing an uber to get a gun is when the rest of the team is defending in proximity to the gun. But that doesn't mean it becomes *WHOLE ENEMY TEAM* versus *SINGLE ENGINEER* simply because an engineer has a gun up, you can't just ignore the other people in that argument.

And if there's multiple guns due to multiple engineers, it takes ages to rebuild a gun alone unless there's a big ammo box nearby or a dispenser that's been building up supply for awhile. Most servers limit engs to 2 or 3 per server. So most you're going to see per map is 3 in most circumstances. A lot of times where this leads to a team getting stuck on guns is that the they don't think of another approach to take down the guns. It's like taking the square peg and trying to force it into the circle slot, they figure if it didn't work the first time you just jam it harder....and there's a critical mass point where that works.

Then there's the "be creative" approach. Where if it's an open air section like, you can simply sticky bomb yourself above it, behind it, whatever and get the easy kill. Or just launch grenades in a steady stream until the dispenser runs out of metal and everything dies.....or kill the dispenser first. Or switch to a spy. Hell you can even use snipers to kill sentry guns, all you gotta do is get to where you can see one little part of it and 2 full power shots will kill it. 2 snipers doing full power shots against the gun can't be healed against. Out range the gun, get back and take pot shots at it outside of it's range. Hell if you use a pistol on a sentry gun, the engineer may only heal it for 2 points, but it takes 25 metal out of the dispenser everytime...can empty the dispenser that way.

Considering the time it takes for an engineer to build a gun up to level 3, a dispenser up to 3, a teleporter up to 3....and they are all stationary...can be sapped. And the guns reaction time sucks unless you walk up to it from the way it's facing. I don't think engineers are overpowered at all, and the easy solution is: If you think they are, play one. If you just want to steamroll everything in the game, engineer ain't the class to be.

I believe of all classes in the game right now, demoman is probably the strongest all-round....I mean he even has long range shots with the ability to launch stickies. I wouldn't be shocked in the least if demoman was the most played class either.

When I played a lot, I probably played engineer the most but the upgrading everything to level 3 taking so long has made me play it less. Frustrating re-building teleporters all the time and people constantly "WHERES THE TELEPORTERs?!?!?!" or Move up the teleportersssss.......blah. Then demoman. Sniper.

Don't much care for soldier, barely play it at all. Spy is a hard class for me with the stuttering, I miss backstabs often. Medic is pretty low playtime also. Pyro is probably mid-range. Heavy is probably a little below pyro, the spies wear me out on it.

So, where's all the engineer hate coming from.....what do you play? Im guessin demoman (which happen to be one of the best sentry killers).
 
PrincessFrosty said:
My point was the engineer as a SINGLE class is expected to be countered by SEVERAL of the opposing team in almost all tactics.

However the coordination for SEVERAL people to work together on a pub server is rare, which is why we see a few engineers locking down a lot of the map and the attacking team basically running against a brick wall constantly unitl the round ends despite even numbered teams.
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any spy worth his salt should be able to go in, sap the dispenser, backstab the engineer (before he gets a chance to knock it off) and allow the team an offensive push. OR at the very least, keep sapping it so your team can come in and destroy it with their weapons.

I do agree with ya though that team work is required to pull anything in the game off. If you have a team full of people wanting to do their own thing, you're going to loose (on offense or defense) unless the other team is equally as disorganized :)

If the spy can't get it done, an uber'd demo will make quick work of a bunch of sentries but again, unless people are willing to work as a team, it doesn't matter if there are sentries or not, an organized team will always win
 
veterator said:
Spy is a hard class for me with the stuttering, I miss backstabs often.
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ya know, I JUST started playing spy this weekend and so far I'm loving it :D I've had the game since release day and never liked how the spy played. It seemed like it required too much constant thought between changing disguises, running out of cloak, getting caught by pyros, etc

but the cloak and dagger has made the class a LOT more fun to play :) I'd even say that it's my new favorite class. Terrorizing medics, snipers and engineers is amazingly gratifying :D
 
Considering how my inventory is full of stuff I dont use, I dont see why people are complaining.
 
Engineer is actually very well balanced. Turrets are extremely easy to take down unless the engineer has support, and guess what that means? It means that defense is playing as a TEAM, so as offense, you had better play as a TEAM. I can take down an engi gun rather easily, but that's probably because I know all the trajectories and grenade snipe spots, and cheap sticky locations to destroy most guns.
 
prtzlboy said:
The more they pile on to this game, the less I enjoy it.
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Namakan said:
Ditto, I've stopped playing... :(

It was such a good game
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Monkey God said:
Glad I stopped playing a while ago.
Valve needs to release new content to keep the ADD types happy and draw new fans, but sometimes when you bolt on too much crap to an otherwise good game, it just gets ugly.
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gravityparade said:
TF2 just keeps getting Gayer and Gayer.
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TheResidentEvil said:
I hate most of the updates. I havent played the game in probably a year.
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TheCommander said:
The game is fine but why do there have to be goofy things like hats and also some of the weapons- Sandvich, Bonk, Jarate, as well as some of the other weapons. The game becomes goofier with each update. For some reason, it just takes away the fun from me.
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MisterSparkle said:
Yeah, haven't played TF2 since a little before their latest patching spree. Used to play it so damn much too, but it just lost it's appeal to me.
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I don't understand you people.
Not to mention no one above elaborated on what exactly made them dislike the game after updates.

Valve has been adding new stuff yet the core gameplay is really not that different at all, it still revolves around paper rock scissors so whats the turn off?
The hats and achivements linked to items could be distracting (Medic update was executed HORRIBLY) but its enough to make you quit such a great game? Really?

I honestly think you guys just got bored of the game and are looking for a scapegoat for quitting.
I'm all for the updates this game keeps recieving.
Can;t wait for the new stuff!
 
Yeah, screw Valve for adding free new content which keeps everything new and fresh without changing the core gameplay. How anybody could bitch about a game released in 2007 that constantly gets free new content is beyond belief.

Are we running out of things to bitch about? I never thought I would see free new stuff a target for harassment.
 
tyguy said:
Yeah, screw Valve for adding free new content which keeps everything new and fresh without changing the core gameplay. How anybody could bitch about a game released in 2007 that constantly gets free new content is beyond belief.

Are we running out of things to bitch about? I never thought I would see free new stuff a target for harassment.
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Maybe they just don't like the way the updates are going or the content. How about I take a free dump on the driver seat of your car? How would you like that?

On that note I like almost all of the weapons and updates but I think there are some balancing issues and bugs that should receive higher priority than new content.
 
ihira said:
I don't understand you people.
Not to mention no one above elaborated on what exactly made them dislike the game after updates.

Valve has been adding new stuff yet the core gameplay is really not that different at all, it still revolves around paper rock scissors so whats the turn off?
The hats and achivements linked to items could be distracting (Medic update was executed HORRIBLY) but its enough to make you quit such a great game? Really?

I honestly think you guys just got bored of the game and are looking for a scapegoat for quitting.
I'm all for the updates this game keeps recieving.
Can;t wait for the new stuff!
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I don't care if they add a trade or crafting option. The game is still good but when they keep adding goofy items to the game, it takes away some appeal. Adding goofy hats and goofy items changes the mood of the game to something less "serious." The way a game looks and feels is important. If you're saying that the core gameplay is still the same with these updates, then maybe Valve should replace the character models with Teletubbies- heck the gameplay would still be the same.
 
TheCommander said:
If you're saying that the core gameplay is still the same with these updates, then maybe Valve should replace the character models with Teletubbies- heck the gameplay would still be the same.
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That's actually an idea.......not so much a complete overhaul. But it would be interesting to see all the characters be "shadows", because you're supposed to be able to tell what someone is by the silhouette. So why not make everything on them changeable as long as it doesn't alter the silhouette. Have the heavy hold cotton candy in both his hands, wearing spiny hat thing, and clothes that make him look like a man child. I could find the humor in that.

But when you really consider that, people will spend more time customizing than actually playing...talking about their outfits.....talking about other peoples. Along the lines of the sprays, how many times you remember when someone comes up with something clever then everyone spends a few rounds staring at it or spraying it all over.

For me, I just play less......I guess because I like payload maps the most, and I think I've only played maybe 6-8 different ones, and only the "included ones" are usually worth the effort. The repetition gets old.
 
TheCommander said:
I don't care if they add a trade or crafting option. The game is still good but when they keep adding goofy items to the game, it takes away some appeal. Adding goofy hats and goofy items changes the mood of the game to something less "serious." The way a game looks and feels is important. If you're saying that the core gameplay is still the same with these updates, then maybe Valve should replace the character models with Teletubbies- heck the gameplay would still be the same.
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Well said. If I want goofy items and crafting, I'll go back to playing WoW :p
 
TheCommander said:
I don't care if they add a trade or crafting option. The game is still good but when they keep adding goofy items to the game, it takes away some appeal. Adding goofy hats and goofy items changes the mood of the game to something less "serious." The way a game looks and feels is important. If you're saying that the core gameplay is still the same with these updates, then maybe Valve should replace the character models with Teletubbies- heck the gameplay would still be the same.
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Did I miss something? I thought the game was never meant to be taken in a "serious" tone, hence the cartoon-ish feel. From the time "Meet the Heavy" was released (the maniacal laugh still cracks me up), it was clear that the visual style was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
 
Mohonri said:
Did I miss something? I thought the game was never meant to be taken in a "serious" tone, hence the cartoon-ish feel. From the time "Meet the Heavy" was released (the maniacal laugh still cracks me up), it was clear that the visual style was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
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that's my thought as well.

It may not be for everyone, but I always enjoyed the humor in TF2. It's always been like that since it's release... I don't ever recall it being a "serious" game (maybe the original and/or TFC, but certainly not TF2). Like you said, it's the text book definition of tongue in cheek/satire.

I didn't really care for the hats or any of that crap when they first released it and actually agreed with the others here that don't like it, but after coming back to the game and actually using them, I jumped the fence. It adds so much more depth and strategy to the game... and crafting weapons will only amplify it.

I tried going back and playing my buddys copy of TF2 on the PS3 and boy am I glad that we're not stuck with that version still. I mean, it's still fun to play, but without the upgrades, weapons unlocks and other stuff that the PC got, it got stale really quick

edit: so when is the crafting system going live? I checked last night but no dice :(
 
Yeah to add on to the free updates, I'm already chuckling that Valve has the nerve to charge for PC-side update for L4D2. It's now called "DLC" and will cost money. I bought L4D2 knowing full well things were going differently...but still :( On one hand, wow, new campaign this quickly? OTOH - just how much does Valve think they can charge PC users, who haven't paid for DLC before?

TF2 may truly be the last "free update" game from Valve - and that's pretty depressing. Heck, if they started charging after the soldier/demo update I wouldn't even be surprised anymore.
 
Thats actually more of a wait and see thing on the charges for the L4D2 DLC. I'd rather wait for more information than jumping to conclusions.
 
well, to be honest, with TF2 they really can't charge for DLC if they want the community to remain as large as it is. The nature of the game doesn't really allow for it. I'm sure they could find ways around it, but it's in their best interest to keep on the track they're already on. If everyone isn't on the same page (so to speak) it will segregate the community

As for L4D2, as long as the content is high quality and abundant, I really don't mind paying for it. If anything, I'm grateful that they gave us everything they already have in TF2 (all for free) :) They have to pay the bills too... they've been EXTREMELY loyal to the PC community so I have no problems helping them out in return. It's better than no DLC at all, IMO. Nobody is forcing people to buy it either :) the game will still work ok without it
 
Mohonri said:
Did I miss something? I thought the game was never meant to be taken in a "serious" tone, hence the cartoon-ish feel. From the time "Meet the Heavy" was released (the maniacal laugh still cracks me up), it was clear that the visual style was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
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+1

If I want to play a "serious" game, I can pick up any Battlefield, Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Doom, or Quake game. TF2 is unique in that I laugh a lot during the game at the animations, sayings, etc. Did anyone play the Halloween KOTH_Harvest map and still think this game was designed to be "serious"?

I like the new weapons and crafting. The game has balance issues, but I like how Valve seems to interact with and cater to the community of players- IMO it takes the cynicism out of the PC gaming genre as a whole.
 
Updates and adding content relative to the way the game is one thing. Both design and gameplay. But adding things that are retarded is another.
 
Dallows said:
Updates and adding content relative to the way the game is one thing. Both design and gameplay. But adding things that are retarded is another.
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Not like it affects you anyway. Oh, look, I got another hat. Are you going to rage quit now?
 
Cyrilix said:
Not like it affects you anyway. Oh, look, I got another hat. Are you going to rage quit now?
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Yet another person using a term in the wrong sense. Love it. I don't give a shit about hats. Hats don't affect gameplay.
 
^ No nades or nail grenades after all this time? They should be adding the original QW CTF stuff before adding all this other fluff :(
 
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