Texas College Hacks Government Drone

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After the U.S. government challenged researchers from the University of Texas to hack its drones they found that, not only did those crazy Texans succeed, they did it for under $1,000. :eek:

A group of researchers led by Professor Todd Humphreys from the University of Texas at Austin Radionavigation Laboratory recently succeeded in raising the eyebrows of the US government. With just around $1,000 in parts, Humphreys’ team took control of an unmanned aerial vehicle operated by the US Department of Homeland Security. After being challenged by his lab, the DHS dared Humphreys’ crew to hack into their drone and take command. Much to their chagrin, they did exactly that.
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I want a drone too, everyone is doing it. People are not people from my computer room and with the drone at that altitude. It's just a game, all a game. It's called blow up the terrorists before they blow something up.

Who's the terrorist you ask?

Anyone that disagrees with our imperialism of course, duh!
 
Im confused i thought there were 2 different bands of gps. Civillian and millitary use. I read at some where the millitary can shutdown the civillian side of gps while still using the millitary side. Why are these drones using the civillian side
 
Impressive and they did it without any Iranian exchange students too. lol
 
I'd like to build a drone some day just for fun. Would be cool to cruise around town with that thing. Make it look like really "alien like" and have people give second looks. :p
 
Red Squirrel said:
I'd like to build a drone some day just for fun. Would be cool to cruise around town with that thing. Make it look like really "alien like" and have people give second looks. :p
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That's pretty nuts, Mister Squirrel! :p You might scare someone.
 
Ug, this is why you do a Scotty. You tell the captain it will take 7 days, when in reality it takes 4.
In the government case, it is never.
 
Filter said:
Im confused i thought there were 2 different bands of gps. Civillian and millitary use. I read at some where the millitary can shutdown the civillian side of gps while still using the millitary side. Why are these drones using the civillian side
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The only real difference is the civilian side includes some error (most of which is intentional, not sure if there are corrections beyond that). That error had been turned off before the Gulf War (1990s war in Iraq), and maybe turned off afterwards. No idea what the status is now.

All the military side gives is a correction on the civilian side. Overpower the civilian GPS, and you control the Drone. Breaking the encryption on the military side might give you a much better chance of hitting the exact runway you want to land the drone on, but you can certainly take full control with just the civilian.

Our modern major general may have been told that the accelerometers overruled the GPS. It never does (and won't work unless you have Apollo mission quality accelerometers and not iPhone level ones) and expect it all through the code. I seriously expect that the military can either send up a new improved encrypted spread spectrum GPS or give up entirely and use accelerometers and other navigational means.
 
Fail said:
I understand what you just said :p

This is a pretty good story. DHS really believes they are top notch and underestimated the value of young minds with something to prove.
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It has nothing to do with DHS aside from them being the ones to present a target to the University. The drones are contracted from a 3rd party company. In all probability, they're just civilian models of existing military drones which may mean bad things about other drones and the corporate contractors who designed and built them.
 
What the article failed to mention is that Dr. Humphreys and the entire Radionavigation Laboratory have been detained and flown to Guantanamo, Cuba for questioning. Their story of being hired by the Department of Homeland Security to hack into one of its drones was flatly denied. DHS says no such agreement ever existed. :D

A group of researchers led by Professor Todd Humphreys from the University of Texas at Austin Radionavigation Laboratory recently succeeded in raising the eyebrows of the US government.
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Vengance_01 said:
Thats very scary! For 1000$ in parts no less :eek:F the world we live in!
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You would be suprised what every country can do in the electromagnetic spectrum for $1000.

But I would ahve to say that when these things don't turn out well, its actually a good thing, find whats broke, hopefully fix it!
 
Trimlock said:
You would be suprised what every country can do in the electromagnetic spectrum for $1000.

But I would ahve to say that when these things don't turn out well, its actually a good thing, find whats broke, hopefully fix it!
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Also when you do something like this on a battle field you light up like a Christmas tree! While drones are neat tech we can still send a 155 round through a window when it is GPS guided. Unguided munititions have an accuracy rate of less than 20 meters. Go ahead paint yourself up in fancy tech we have tradiditional ways to kill you too. :D
 
No one needs to forget that the UAV's that the military was using during the Iraq War were transmitting unencrypted video which the enemy easily decoded using <$50 hardware and software.
 
what about capt video and what he did , i wonder who he was hmmmm. he took control of a satilite and had lots of fun changing channel and posting messages.:D
 
SkribbelKat said:
That's pretty nuts, Mister Squirrel! :p You might scare someone.
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Squirrel could always go for this type of crazy drone build:

images


Go out on the side of the road and get yourself an armadillo carcass or something, haha :D
 
All UAV's should be shut down. Security is crap and this proves it. The BS that our drone crashed in Iran is only a fairy tale that gullible fools believe in. I fear the day we arm these UAVs and have them hacked and used against us... that is just waiting to happen.
 
BettiePage said:
All UAV's should be shut down. Security is crap and this proves it. The BS that our drone crashed in Iran is only a fairy tale that gullible fools believe in. I fear the day we arm these UAVs and have them hacked and used against us... that is just waiting to happen.
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I personally don't think they even need to be hacked to be used against us. I mean that's exactly what they're using them for now in the US. Certain police department requested armed versions as well lately.

FYI, the Pakistanis are accusing the US right now of killing 35,000 civilians in drone attacks. For this reason, three out of four (according to the person reporting it) sees the US as the real enemy.
 
I'm not surprised, the Iranian military did this very thing not too long ago. The Iranian military sent it bad GPS cords and made the drone believe it was landing at its home base.
 
Domestic UAV surveillance is basically here. Since it is the right of the people to arm themselves against government, where the hell are the civilian surface -> air weapons?
 
I hope the UT hacking team didn't have any Chinese people on it. Because if so, guess what, they just phoned home and spilled the beans. :eek:
 
And now they have taken all the joy out of the story with this little factiod:

Correction: this story has been modified to clarify that the drone used in the U of T experiment was not a government drone, but a UAV owned by the university. :rolleyes:

Professor: "Well, it wasn't really a DHS drone, in fact it wasn't really a drone, so much as it was Timmy's remote control doorknob, but we still hacked for less than $1000!" :eek:
 
^ Yeah, that is a pretty major correction. Looks like a non-story now in comparison.
 
ashaman99 said:
And now they have taken all the joy out of the story with this little factiod:

Correction: this story has been modified to clarify that the drone used in the U of T experiment was not a government drone, but a UAV owned by the university. :rolleyes:

Professor: "Well, it wasn't really a DHS drone, in fact it wasn't really a drone, so much as it was Timmy's remote control doorknob, but we still hacked for less than $1000!" :eek:
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Damn factual information ruining fantasies
 
It looks like I am going to have to correct a ton of misconceptions some of you have about RPA's. As far as I know, I am the only one on these boards qualified to answer them as I am a MQ-1 Sensor Operator.

First regarding the article.

It's misleading. They didn't provide any details about this "drone" (I hate the media's use of that word!) such as size, purpose, cost, sophistication, etc. Spoofing the GPS on a $20K research "drone" (just guessing since it's a university's drone and again, they didn't provide any details) isn't the same as hacking a Predator as this story would have the general public believe.

Here are two great quotes from another forum I'm on:

Not quite. GPS is actually transmitted with two codes. The Coarse/Acquisition (C/A) and the Precise (P) codes. The C/A is what the commercial and military uses and is accurate to about 100m. The P code is the encrypted code (which can be turned on and off, which Clinton did in the late 90's) which the military uses for precision down to about 8m. When the P code encryption is off, commercial devices then can use that code also bringing their accuracy to about 8m also.
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Jason Evens (unregistered) June 29, 2012, 06:04
This isn't a UAS issue, it’s a GPS issue. Anything using GPS is susceptible to an errant GPS signal. Also important to remember that unmanned aircraft have real, behind the stick pilots just like manned aircraft do. An errant GPS is not enough, they would also have to break the link between the aircraft and the pilot. Of course, what’s not mentioned here is that these type of aircraft use INS which makes the entire argument pointless.
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Even if you were able to jam the aircraft and it lost link with the satellite. It would immediately execute it's pre-programmed emergency mission and RTB. INS would take over if GPS was jammed.

AnonymousUser said:
I want a drone too, everyone is doing it. People are not people from my computer room and with the drone at that altitude. It's just a game, all a game. It's called blow up the terrorists before they blow something up.

Who's the terrorist you ask?

Anyone that disagrees with our imperialism of course, duh!
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You have no fucking idea what you are talking about! I seriously hope your post was complete sarcasm. I assure you killing someone with a Predator is no fucking game. I should know as I have done it. When friendly forces are being shot at and you can hear the urgency in the JTAC's voice as he passes you a 9-line, sometimes wanting you to shoot within danger close range (meaning he could take shrapnel or worse), it is no fucking game. We have LOAC and orders to follow. No one can just shoot willy-nilly cause they feel like it. There are tons of people involved to make a decision to go kinetic and many times you don't. The most frustrating thing can be watching a known and confirmed terrorist and not being given clearance to shoot because they want to build more intel on him and maybe try for capture. Calling it a game is perhaps the biggest pet peeve I have with those who are completely ignorant of my job.


Filter said:
Im confused i thought there were 2 different bands of gps. Civillian and millitary use. I read at some where the millitary can shutdown the civillian side of gps while still using the millitary side. Why are these drones using the civillian side
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See above.

Wumpus said:
All the military side gives is a correction on the civilian side. Overpower the civilian GPS, and you control the Drone. Breaking the encryption on the military side might give you a much better chance of hitting the exact runway you want to land the drone on, but you can certainly take full control with just the civilian.
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Military RPA's are controlled for all phases of flight. You cannot "hack" and land it just by spoofing the GPS (which is why that article is misleading, at least in regards to military aircraft) GPS isn't the only navigation method either. INS has been around for a lot longer.

riot8ap said:
No one needs to forget that the UAV's that the military was using during the Iraq War were transmitting unencrypted video which the enemy easily decoded using <$50 hardware and software.
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Encrypting the video both increases transmission time and degrades the quality. It was sacrificed back then because everyone wanted info faster. The Command link has always been encrypted to prevent hacking.

BettiePage said:
All UAV's should be shut down. Security is crap and this proves it. The BS that our drone crashed in Iran is only a fairy tale that gullible fools believe in. I fear the day we arm these UAVs and have them hacked and used against us... that is just waiting to happen.
Click to expand...

You must have missed the news where the Iranian scientist claimed that they used their UFO and force fields to land it. I also love how the official picture makes the RQ-170 look like it is made out of fondant and could be on an episode of Cake Boss. This article was actually an email that was sent out at work as well. BTW, that type of RPA flies unarmed, hence the RQ designation versus MQ.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/01/iran-ufo-drone/

AnonymousUser said:
I personally don't think they even need to be hacked to be used against us. I mean that's exactly what they're using them for now in the US. Certain police department requested armed versions as well lately.

FYI, the Pakistanis are accusing the US right now of killing 35,000 civilians in drone attacks. For this reason, three out of four (according to the person reporting it) sees the US as the real enemy.
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These are the same Pakistani's who are harboring terrorists, right? The same ones who don't let neutral aid workers come in to substantiate their claims, right? (despite that we actually have footage of who and what we are targeting in Pakistan and is now oversaw by select Congress members when the CIA goes kinetic) The same Pakistani's who had no idea that bin Laden had set up a fucking compound blocks away from a police academy, right? The same Pakistani's who regularly cross into Afghanistan to attack NATO troops and then run back over the border thinking we won't go after them, right?

Even if you assume each Hellfire missile actually killed 4 people per missile (fucking hard to do since the missile was orginally designed to take out tanks, There is no way we have fired 8750 of them in Pakistan to kill 35K civilians. Google or wikipedia the missile and the Predator and read up on it. You'll laugh when you realize how absurd it is to think we could actually kill that many with an RPA. An AC-130 or any number of other aircraft would be far more effective and cost efficient.

Hopefully I've cleared up some major misconceptions the general public has about RPA's. If you have questions, I'll attempt to answer them but not at the expense of National Security.
 
Sobek

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about! I seriously hope your post was complete sarcasm. I assure you killing someone with a Predator is no fucking game. I should know as I have done it. When friendly forces are being shot at and you can hear the urgency in the JTAC's voice as he passes you a 9-line, sometimes wanting you to shoot within danger close range (meaning he could take shrapnel or worse), it is no fucking game. We have LOAC and orders to follow. No one can just shoot willy-nilly cause they feel like it. There are tons of people involved to make a decision to go kinetic and many times you don't. The most frustrating thing can be watching a known and confirmed terrorist and not being given clearance to shoot because they want to build more intel on him and maybe try for capture. Calling it a game is perhaps the biggest pet peeve I have with those who are completely ignorant of my job.
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Obviously it was sarcasm. Surprised you needed me to spell it out actually. Killing (innocent/suspected bad) people with drones is murder, simple as that. Using them on the people that are actually paying for them to be produced is fucked up too (today it's for surveillance, 5-10 years it's for blowing up the bad guys here too. Oops, his family was with him, oh well!).



Sobek
These are the same Pakistani's who are harboring terrorists, right? The same ones who don't let neutral aid workers come in to substantiate their claims, right? (despite that we actually have footage of who and what we are targeting in Pakistan and is now oversaw by select Congress members when the CIA goes kinetic) The same Pakistani's who had no idea that bin Laden had set up a fucking compound blocks away from a police academy, right? The same Pakistani's who regularly cross into Afghanistan to attack NATO troops and then run back over the border thinking we won't go after them, right?

Even if you assume each Hellfire missile actually killed 4 people per missile (fucking hard to do since the missile was orginally designed to take out tanks, There is no way we have fired 8750 of them in Pakistan to kill 35K civilians One innocent person is fucking bad...wtf!!!. Google or wikipedia the missile and the Predator and read up on it. You'll laugh when you realize how absurd it is to think we could actually kill that many with an RPA. An AC-130 or any number of other aircraft would be far more effective and cost efficient.

Hopefully I've cleared up some major misconceptions the general public has about RPA's. If you have questions, I'll attempt to answer them but not at the expense of National Security.
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So wait, the US government doesn't commit the most terror around the world? Could've fooled me! Are we talking about the same Bin Laden that our government funded and trained in the late 1980's? Or the same Bin Laden that had bombs dropped on his people after we no longer needed him (that might piss you off too)? Or the same Bin Laden that's eroding our freedoms everyday, wait, that's not him, that's our very own government (Patriot Act, NDAA, SIPA/PIPA/CISPA,income to equality ratios, etc).

What's worse, an act of causing terror (terror? You mean war/fighting/etc?) on someone you hate or an act of causing terror (false flag) on your own people and blaming it on the guy that hates you? Just curious Mr. Freedom Fighter.



The only difference between terrorism and anti-terrorism is the person saying it - Noam Chomsky.

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune. - Noam Chomsky



 
Sobek said:
These are the same Pakistani's who are harboring terrorists, right? The same ones who don't let neutral aid workers come in to substantiate their claims, right? (despite that we actually have footage of who and what we are targeting in Pakistan and is now oversaw by select Congress members when the CIA goes kinetic) The same Pakistani's who had no idea that bin Laden had set up a fucking compound blocks away from a police academy, right? The same Pakistani's who regularly cross into Afghanistan to attack NATO troops and then run back over the border thinking we won't go after them, right?

Even if you assume each Hellfire missile actually killed 4 people per missile (fucking hard to do since the missile was orginally designed to take out tanks, There is no way we have fired 8750 of them in Pakistan to kill 35K civilians. Google or wikipedia the missile and the Predator and read up on it. You'll laugh when you realize how absurd it is to think we could actually kill that many with an RPA. An AC-130 or any number of other aircraft would be far more effective and cost efficient.

Hopefully I've cleared up some major misconceptions the general public has about RPA's. If you have questions, I'll attempt to answer them but not at the expense of National Security.
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I think the point you miss here is that it is Pakistan, a sovereign foreign nation. Not a US State or territory. It fact, it's literally on the other side of the world. Afghanistan is also not a US state or territory. I'm a little unclear on why we're hunting and shooting (aka wasting my taxes on) people doing shit in 2 countries that are not part of the US and on the other side of the planet.

If these terrorists had or were in the process of building a stealth bomber with an 8000 mile range, I could see the concern and need for preemptory strike. But they live in caves and the most advanced weapons they have at their disposal they got from us.
 
Mother Russia likes it when people log into public forums to correct misunderstandings about military weapons systems with an official, knowledgable perspective.
 
riot8ap said:
No one needs to forget that the UAV's that the military was using during the Iraq War were transmitting unencrypted video which the enemy easily decoded using <$50 hardware and software.
Click to expand...

So, they were able to watch their deaths live?
 
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