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Tesla Unveils Radical Cybertruck.

seanreisk said:
P.S. When Tesla introduced the Model 3 they did away with the 'grill' - the Model 3 has always had a flat front. People didn't like it. Then Tesla did away with the grill on the Model S and Model X. After a few years on the road people have changed - they no longer like the 'grill', and prefer Tesla's with the blank face. Perceptions change.
Click to expand...

I totally remember this one. A lot of people flipped out over the naked Model 3 grill and insisted it had to be changed for production. It was hilarious.

I always liked the naked grill. It seemed very Porsche like.

Cybertruck shocked me initially, so I didn't instantly like it, but it quickly grew on me, especially after reading about the functional reasons why it looks that way.

If you get one of these you are going to have to like attention. I am sure if you parked next to a Bugatti Chiron, the Chiron would get ignored while the Cybertruck would draw a crowd.
 
T4rd said:
They need to add an optional lift kit, fake exhaust stacks, and "roll coal" option (maybe keep a reservoir full of black chalk dust or something in the fake exhaust stacks) for it to hook the rednecks in my home state (KY). Would be hilarious to see a Tesla truck roll coal on a hicked'out diesel truck too, haha. I guarantee it will be on Youtube soon after the truck launches.
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Put a diesel in the bed and have at it ;)

Snowdog said:
Agreed. If you ignore the sharp edges, the overall shape is as close to teardrop as road cars get. Shots from above reveal the sides taper gently and consistently from front to back: perfect.

Now when considering the edges, there is really only one edge of concern, and that the roof peak where it transitions from windscreen going up, to the rear trailing down. This is potentially where they air-stream detaches, if it stays detached in this large area, then it's going to significantly hurt aerodynamics. If it stays attached, or reattaches without much turbulence, it's going to have really good aerodynamics. I am betting they have at least modelled they are getting reattachment with minimal turbulance.

Also I don't think that edge will be sharp. Seen from side it looks pointy where the stainless edges join, but seen from above, it isn't a stainless join. It can be more gentle curve.

View attachment 202292
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Edges are a very good point that others have mentioned elsewhere, but adding a small spoiler or laminar-inducing hump there in final version (or optional/for the top model etc) would reduce that but as per your other find it doesn't look so bad. If anything, a retractable lip or splitter or foil the front...
How would you solve the rear though? Tail down I don't see helping..
Edit: Maybe some sort of tail bodykit to give it more of a raindrop shape... would be interesting to see what difference it makes to range. It's so flat that attaching it wouldn't be too hard, even super strong magnets or suction with some backup could work there.

Snowdog said:
CFD attempt looks pretty good:
https://electrek.co/2019/11/25/tesla-cybertruck-aerodynamics-cfd-rendering/
View attachment 202418
Click to expand...


Fremunaln said:
LOL, "Best Work truck ever"

Yup didnt know best worktruck ever also was priced over what a typical work truck starts at...
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Have you priced a compressor, a generator (zero emission/indoor use one too.. now that's getting REALLY expensive) and lack of rust repairs and ICE components/service/wearing out into that figure?
 
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N4CR said:
Put a diesel in the bed and have at it ;)

Have you priced a compressor, a generator (zero emission/indoor use one too.. now that's getting REALLY expensive) and lack of rust repairs and ICE components/service/wearing out into that figure?
Click to expand...

I assume you will eventually get around to posting those figures, since it is YOUR Point to make not mine?
 
As a home owner, this is a poor choice for me. I use my truck to haul landscape material and the slopes of the bed make it impossible to get mulch out without climbing in. The unibody is cool though.
 
Fremunaln said:
I assume you will eventually get around to posting those figures, since it is YOUR Point to make not mine?
Click to expand...
Good compressor will be in the 1-3k range depending on capacity. Maybe more for real serious stuff. A zero emission genny is basically a giant battery pack, which comes with the truck. And that's expensive standalone. They don't really exist in any large volume, so I'd say ~$10k range and it still won't have 1/3rd of the cybertruck capacity in top model.

So if you need those functions, add that to the price and now it's a lot more competitive. Even the base model is only what 10k more than a ferrrd and add that extra stuff in and you are already losing on the ferd with lifetime ownership. Tesla posted figures for the comparison showing;
upload_2019-11-26_16-27-0.png


As I said earlier, I'm not a tesla fan. This could be built by Mahindra and I'd still love it. IF they had a track record of delivering (mostly) reliable electric vehicles already.
 
N4CR said:
Edit: Maybe some sort of tail bodykit to give it more of a raindrop shape... would be interesting to see what difference it makes to range. It's so flat that attaching it wouldn't be too hard, even super strong magnets or suction with some backup could work there.
Click to expand...
Considering SpaceX is making & using austenitic alloys like inconel, and it would make sense to be using a austenitic stainless for strength & corrosion resistance for the truck...
3hk8ob.jpg


I'll refrain any snarky comments like..
N4CR said:
People have mentioned aero who have no business discussing aero.
Click to expand...
;)
 
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N4CR said:
Good compressor will be in the 1-3k range depending on capacity. Maybe more for real serious stuff. A zero emission genny is basically a giant battery pack, which comes with the truck. And that's expensive standalone. They don't really exist in any large volume, so I'd say ~$10k range and it still won't have 1/3rd of the cybertruck capacity in top model.

So if you need those functions, add that to the price and now it's a lot more competitive. Even the base model is only what 10k more than a ferrrd and add that extra stuff in and you are already losing on the ferd with lifetime ownership. Tesla posted figures for the comparison showing;
View attachment 202505

As I said earlier, I'm not a tesla fan. This could be built by Mahindra and I'd still love it. IF they had a track record of delivering (mostly) reliable electric vehicles already.
Click to expand...

So what your saying is compare whats available to what doesnt exist?

I said this earlier, this truck is great for folks who want a "Tesla Truck" as an a lifestyle addition (evident by the 200k numbers show most folks are going for the dual motor variant which is even more expensive then the base 39k.)

Heck, I even believe that whatever "Ferrdd" and "Raaam" are going to be launching soon will be on par or below what this Cybertruck is. These Version 0.1 trucks are fun and exciting for folks like MKBHD and others who just want the future now. Folks whose office exists in the confines of truck there gonna need to wait for v1.0 in a bout a decade for the insane solid state batteries and rapid charging tech which obsolete combustion engines.
 
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odditory said:
To you


Totally. Because there's no middle ground, you can't get excited about new tech without it meaning YoUrE jUsT BlOwInG MuSk
Click to expand...

Most folks dont get middle ground or are rational when it comes to being objective.

Its either Tesla sucks and will fail any second now OR Tesla and Musk can do no harm+any objective criticism means you are a Tesla Bear/Luddite...
 
IcePickFreak said:
Considering SpaceX is making & using austenitic alloys like inconel, and it would make sense to be using a austenitic stainless for strength & corrosion resistance for the truck...View attachment 202506

I'll refrain any snarky comments like..

;)
Click to expand...
LOL fair call, I didn't realise it was austenitic stainless. I'm not a metallurgy guy so yes, idiots like me who don't do non aluminium stuff should STFU xD. Figured it was good ole normal stainless.
There are existing products which stick to steel bodies that protect 4wds already and they are on the sides, not back, so the concept is there already.

Fremunaln said:
So what your saying is compare whats available to what doesnt exist?

I said this earlier, this truck is great for folks who want a "Tesla Truck" as an a lifestyle addition (evident by the 200k numbers show most folks are going for the dual motor variant which is even more expensive then the base 39k.)

Heck, I even believe that whatever "Ferrdd" and "Raaam" are going to be launching soon will be on par or below what this Cybertruck is. These Version 0.1 trucks are fun and exciting for folks like MKBHD and others who just want the future now. Folks whose office exists in the confines of truck there gonna need to wait for v1.0 in a bout a decade for the insane solid state batteries and rapid charging tech which obsolete combustion engines.
Click to expand...

That's the point exactly, a comparable truck doesn't exist and a similarly fitted (aftermarket one) costs more and that gear takes up half your bed already or more... and weighs more. Apples - oranges and the usual.

Maybe on par with ICE but not with electric, no one is going to catch Tesla any time soon. Might be mid-20s or later by the time they are getting close, probably longer if the marketshare tips away to Tesla.. Tesla is that far ahead and that far invested to remain ahead. It's like AMD trying to catch Intel in marke tshare, that's going to take a long time, even with superior products in a vast majority of situations.
Basically it's going to come to a crossroads. Tesla is poised to dominate the auto industry if they keep this up. ICE and shitty electric designs from competitors are not going to be up to scratch. They're already far ahead of the Rivan and other competitors in both price and functions/spec.

People have estimated with fully loaded towing (based on Model-x figures) that it'll be about half the range... so 250 miles per day towing in a work truck if you get the top model and completely load it up? If you have to drive 4-6 hours a day to get to work, you aren't getting to work for very long.... so I feel that range is enough for most users. Unloaded you can drive almost entirely across Texas. Again, that's not relevant to working unless you are a towie or something where you are driving all day and hauling stuff. Then an ICE would definitely have an advantage when it comes to refueling. But as soon as your cities have more of that emissions bullshit, then you'll need electric.. and Tesla will be waiting for you.
 
Tsumi said:
You wouldn't be wrong. Those buses spend so much time parked and they always return to the same place.
Click to expand...

Yeah - they travel less than 150 miles twice a day. Stop and go traffic, which is terrible for ICE mileage and wear-and-tear. Power walls for each bus at the depot so they can buy power on the cheap at night, and maybe even solar where practical. Low center of gravity. Tesla's electronics make it easy to develop all kinds of automated safety systems, including things like the driver and the kids being monitored. Wi-Fi network on the bus. Even AWD, something most buses don't have.

I saw a demo once where the bus, when it stopped, extended a huge stop sign into the lane of following traffic, but it was on a 55" screen, and that screen showed information about kids crossing in front of the bus. That would work well.

Tsumi said:
Also imagine a bus doing 0 to 60 in 4 seconds...
Click to expand...

Maybe not for the school bus. But imagine a luxury camper that didn't slow down traffic!
 
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seanreisk said:
Yeah - they travel less than 150 miles twice a day. Stop and go traffic, which is terrible for ICE mileage and wear-and-tear. Power walls for each bus at the depot so they can buy power on the cheap at night, and maybe even solar where practical. Low center of gravity. Tesla's electronics make it easy to develop all kinds of automated safety systems, including things like the driver and the kids being monitored. Wi-Fi network on the bus. Even AWD, something most buses don't have.

I saw a demo once where the bus, when it stopped, extended a huge stop sign into the lane of following traffic, but it was on a 55" screen, and that screen showed information about kids crossing in front of the bus. That would work well.



Maybe not for the school bus. But imagine a luxury camper that didn't slow down traffic!
Click to expand...

All fair points. Today's buses rely too much on the "big is safe" and don't have much in terms of real safety.

Imagine a Class A RV built the same way as the Cybertruck... Now that would be a true luxury zombie apocalypse vehicle.
 
N4CR said:
LOL fair call, I didn't realise it was austenitic stainless. I'm not a metallurgy guy so yes, idiots like me who don't do non aluminium stuff should STFU xD. Figured it was good ole normal stainless.
There are existing products which stick to steel bodies that protect 4wds already and they are on the sides, not back, so the concept is there already.
Click to expand...
How dare you show up here without a PhD in metallurgy!

upload_2019-11-26_1-46-45.png
 
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odditory said:
How dare you show up here without a pHd in metallurgy?

View attachment 202539
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Hah, please school away!

Scoring will make production interesting in terms of tooling... may be a good job for a laser if it's scanned fast for minimum thermal transfer and doesn't weaken it. Or it has to be done cold?
I'm so spoiled with aluminium. Easy on tools.. easy to bend, easy to CNC, easy to feed in crazy dual turret automated jap lathes etc..
 
Verge said:
but it doesn't, panasonic owns and makes the batteries, TSLA just assembles the battery packs. Not sure where you are getting that info? What battery tech do they have that nobody else does exactly?
Click to expand...

See my 1st 2 posts in this thread.
 
N4CR said:
Hah, please school away!

Scoring will make production interesting in terms of tooling... may be a good job for a laser if it's scanned fast for minimum thermal transfer and doesn't weaken it. Or it has to be done cold?
I'm so spoiled with aluminium. Easy on tools.. easy to bend, easy to CNC, easy to feed in crazy dual turret automated jap lathes etc..
Click to expand...

Stainless can be done in stamping equipment but you have to use much harder heads otherwise they will flatten out very quickly. Expensive tooling is why most dont mess with it in the auto industry, aluminum is preferred as it's easy on tooling.
 
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N4CR said:
Hah, please school away!

Scoring will make production interesting in terms of tooling... may be a good job for a laser if it's scanned fast for minimum thermal transfer and doesn't weaken it. Or it has to be done cold?
I'm so spoiled with aluminium. Easy on tools.. easy to bend, easy to CNC, easy to feed in crazy dual turret automated jap lathes etc..
Click to expand...
Yeah aluminum is a dream for machining. Stainless (in general) absolutely sucks for machining. It's more tearing than cutting, kinda gummy, so it burns thru tooling like nobodies business.
 
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Verge said:
You were talking about tesla's battery production, tesla doesn't make batteries yet. Still Panasonic.
Click to expand...
Not sure what the point is or if it's supposed to be some revelation, but nitpicking mode engaged.

Tesla has the best battery experts in the world (Maxwell), has patented features, makes the lightest/kwh , makes the machinery that makes the cells, supplies the materials. The only thing Panasonic does is buys and run the machines at the GF. They can only make them for Tesla. Tesla does make their own batteries, they just job shop the running of the plant to Panasonic.

To take over they just need to hire workers and buy more equipment. Tesla already supplies the parts, the space and makes the machinery.
The real reason Tesla uses Panasonic is $1.7B they pay for equipment up front, plus handling labor, which frees up Tesla to deal with other things.

Keep an eye out for "battery day" where Elon will formalize both the Plaid powertrain and the Maxwell infused battery advancements that are already apparent - and baked into - the Cybertruck specs (500mi model). They're keeping battery advancements intentionally quiet because they don't want to freeze sales on existing cars, obviously. One day we'll wake up and the ranges on the order pages all the models will have shot up.

Inevitable million-mile 500Wh/kg 800V is going to be glorious.
 
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Gideon said:
Stainless can be done in stamping equipment but you have to use much harder heads otherwise they will flatten out very quickly. Expensive tooling is why most dont mess with it in the auto industry, aluminum is preferred as it's easy on tooling.
Click to expand...

And that's for normal auto-body thickness Stainless. This stuff is at least 3X the thickness of normal automotive sheet steel.
 
Snowdog said:
And that's for normal auto-body thickness Stainless. This stuff is at least 3X the thickness of normal automotive sheet steel.
Click to expand...

Stamping sheet metal for automotive use is around 1.27mm to 1.59mm so its about twice as thick as steel used on normal cars. It's still not impossible like Elon tries to imply, it's just simply beyond the capability for Tesla to afford and produce at the speed they need to turn a profit. He is simply making excuses for it's over simplistic design.
 
N4CR said:
Tesla is poised to dominate the auto industry if they keep this up.
Click to expand...
They have a slim chance of dominating even the EV segment, let alone the whole industry. Unless you're not thinking of market share.
 
Gideon said:
Stamping sheet metal for automotive use is around 1.27mm to 1.59mm so its about twice as thick as steel used on normal cars. It's still not impossible like Elon tries to imply, it's just simply beyond the capability for Tesla to afford and produce at the speed they need to turn a profit. He is simply making excuses for it's over simplistic design.
Click to expand...

Normal cars don't use the body as a frame. Even in unibody designs, the exterior panels are generally not part of the frame. According to Elon, everything we see on the outside is literally the frame. A frame that needs to handle 3400 lbs payload, 14k lbs towing, and withstand collisions safely.
 
odditory said:
To take over they just need to hire workers and buy more equipment. Tesla already supplies the parts, the space and makes the machinery..
Click to expand...

So Tesla designed and made line machinery... i some phantom plant... shipped it to japan, and has Panasonic japan making additional capacity???


Oh, and they also LET toyota use the cells they own and designed according to you???

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-tesla-style-panasonic-cells-in-chinese-phevs




Ya'll gotta stop believing everything Musk says... he lies about as often as Trump.
 
Tsumi said:
Normal cars don't use the body as a frame. Even in unibody designs, the exterior panels are generally not part of the frame. According to Elon, everything we see on the outside is literally the frame. A frame that needs to handle 3400 lbs payload, 14k lbs towing, and withstand collisions safely.
Click to expand...

If your going to enter the conversation at least do some research. A Unibody is the frame of the car, the skin of the car is not the frame nor is it on Teslas truck. Tesla is using a unibody design without the use of a full frame which is normally used on trucks. SUV's are one of the few larger vehicle to be unibody but trucks have to withstand the payloads and rigors of towing which necessitated the use of a frame. Will see if he is correct or not after people abuse the hell out of them.
 
Verge said:
I doubt 99% of the people buying these abuse them, or even tow anything with them.
Click to expand...

Based on my experience in the auto industry for over 20 years I think you will be incorrect. More like half will want to use it like a truck and it better hold up or Elon will be in trouble. Will be interesting to see if Elon has indeed fixed the issues with not using a frame on a truck.
 
N4CR said:
That's the point exactly, a comparable truck doesn't exist and a similarly fitted (aftermarket one) costs more and that gear takes up half your bed already or more... and weighs more. Apples - oranges and the usual.

Maybe on par with ICE but not with electric, no one is going to catch Tesla any time soon. Might be mid-20s or later by the time they are getting close, probably longer if the marketshare tips away to Tesla.. Tesla is that far ahead and that far invested to remain ahead. It's like AMD trying to catch Intel in marke tshare, that's going to take a long time, even with superior products in a vast majority of situations.
Basically it's going to come to a crossroads. Tesla is poised to dominate the auto industry if they keep this up. ICE and shitty electric designs from competitors are not going to be up to scratch. They're already far ahead of the Rivan and other competitors in both price and functions/spec.

People have estimated with fully loaded towing (based on Model-x figures) that it'll be about half the range... so 250 miles per day towing in a work truck if you get the top model and completely load it up? If you have to drive 4-6 hours a day to get to work, you aren't getting to work for very long.... so I feel that range is enough for most users. Unloaded you can drive almost entirely across Texas. Again, that's not relevant to working unless you are a towie or something where you are driving all day and hauling stuff. Then an ICE would definitely have an advantage when it comes to refueling. But as soon as your cities have more of that emissions bullshit, then you'll need electric.. and Tesla will be waiting for you.
Click to expand...

What point LOL? you literally are comparing real world costs of a setup that exists, to one that doesnt exist and then coming to a conclusion that its better...?
 
Gideon said:
Stamping sheet metal for automotive use is around 1.27mm to 1.59mm so its about twice as thick as steel used on normal cars. It's still not impossible like Elon tries to imply, it's just simply beyond the capability for Tesla to afford and produce at the speed they need to turn a profit. He is simply making excuses for it's over simplistic design.
Click to expand...

Every source I founds indicated it's under 1mm in modern cars. 1mm = .039 inches.

https://www.oldcarsweekly.com/restoration/sheet-metal-basics
Automotive sheet metal once ran in the range of 18-gauge, which was 48 thousandths of an inch thick (actually 0.0478 inch). 20-gauge became common in more recent times, and this meant 0.0359-inch-thick metal—still a lot to work with in-bumping and metal finishing. However, more recently, 22-gauge (0.0299-inch) has become common, and now 23- and 24-gauge (0.0269- and 0.0239-inch, respectively) have appeared on the scene under the euphemistic name, “high-strength steel.”​
 
Gideon said:
Stamping sheet metal for automotive use is around 1.27mm to 1.59mm so its about twice as thick as steel used on normal cars. It's still not impossible like Elon tries to imply, it's just simply beyond the capability for Tesla to afford and produce at the speed they need to turn a profit. He is simply making excuses for it's over simplistic design.
Click to expand...
Or.. he's trying to keep the thing at a somewhat reasonable price. Stamping dies aren't cheap.

ETA: Not to mention some metals just don't do complex bends all that well. Has there been any more info released on exactly what kind of stainless steel they're using here?
 
Snowdog said:
Every source I founds indicated it's under 1mm in modern cars. 1mm = .039 inches.

https://www.oldcarsweekly.com/restoration/sheet-metal-basics
Automotive sheet metal once ran in the range of 18-gauge, which was 48 thousandths of an inch thick (actually 0.0478 inch). 20-gauge became common in more recent times, and this meant 0.0359-inch-thick metal—still a lot to work with in-bumping and metal finishing. However, more recently, 22-gauge (0.0299-inch) has become common, and now 23- and 24-gauge (0.0269- and 0.0239-inch, respectively) have appeared on the scene under the euphemistic name, “high-strength steel.”​
Click to expand...

It depends where the steel is going and high strength steel is very new which is much thinner then what was used at one time. Hoods, trunks, quarter panels tend to be thicker while door skins and fenders tend to be the thinnest. While aluminum bodies will be be thicker. Using thinner metal has been a goal to save weight, which runs counter to why Tesla is using such thick panels. It would be smarter on their part to run 2mm panels and save the weight and increase their mileage. Also the type of vehicle plays into it as well as a Truck runs thicker panels compared to lets say a econo car will. 18 gauge was still in use when I left Chrysler in 2010
 
What’s radical about these trucks. I saw these in the first road warrior.
 
DrDoU said:
What’s radical about these trucks. I saw these in the first road warrior.
Click to expand...
Design is visually iconic, memable. Spreads. Isn't eco, isn't effeminate, can't be derided by truck owners that way. Cold rolling cut cost by maybe 10k. The look is the price point.

People expected Elon to launch a truck, instead he launched a new brand. Notice the lack of Tesla logos anywhere on it.

 
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A battery powered Delorean truck. Interesting.

OTOH, on my daily commute I deal with asshats in Teslas all day long who can't drive or drive like it's Nascar. Now we have a big, huge, steel version that will be driving like an asshat on the Dallas North Tollway. Fantastic.

I was hoping the electric revolution would lead to smaller, fast, efficient cars. This is just.......

I'm not dropping my hundred grand on this.
 
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