Tesla Unveils Radical Cybertruck.

Snowdog

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Ah yes, an inefficient generator to recharge your 70k truck just to do what a 25-30k truck could do.... that definitely sounds like the truck of the future to me! :rolleyes:

Dollar to dollar, the cyber truck is a horrible proposition, terrible functionality with the bed design, bland interior and exterior styling, and to top it off, a large price premium.
It's a fringe option, for a fringe use case.

Most people would never really be outside the radius of somewhere to charge in all their normal activities.
 

Nimisys

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Yeah, a Jerry can should you want one is like $15/ 5 gallon.
167 kw hour in 5 gallons of gas. Average generator is 18-20% efficient. So approx 25 gallons to fill 150kw pack. 5kw genset has a burn rate of 18 gallons per 24hrs on average. So 31hrs to fill if done continuously.

Not impossible, but a lot of effort to make a square peg for in a round hole.
 

matt167

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167 kw hour in 5 gallons of gas. Average generator is 18-20% efficient. So approx 25 gallons to fill 150kw pack. 5kw genset has a burn rate of 18 gallons per 24hrs on average. So 31hrs to fill if done continuously.

Not impossible, but a lot of effort to make a square peg for in a round hole.
right, a 5 gallon can would get a gas/ diesel truck to a gas station.. TFL did a thing with a Tesla on a generator and the car wouldn't even charge without a homemade grounding adapter plugged into the genset
 

Verado

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Jesus christ the amount of reaching you guys are doing you could jerk me off across the atlantic. The cybercrap is going to work out just fine, just like the other Teslas has worked out just fine despite all the FUD.
 

ymer

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Jesus christ the amount of reaching you guys are doing you could jerk me off across the atlantic. The cybercrap is going to work out just fine, just like the other Teslas has worked out just fine despite all the FUD.
Not at the adverticed price point/delivery time
 

Jagger100

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Jesus christ the amount of reaching you guys are doing you could jerk me off across the atlantic. The cybercrap is going to work out just fine, just like the other Teslas has worked out just fine despite all the FUD.
Is Tesla still collecting $50,000 in subsidies per vehicle? It's not working out if they are still be subsidized by CARB credits.
 

Verado

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Not at the adverticed price point/delivery time
Yeah, Teslas timetables are always aspirational. I have mixed feelings about this. Both the model 3 and X were delayed and there was an uproar of grumpy people, but it died down very fast both times.

Is Tesla still collecting $50,000 in subsidies per vehicle? It's not working out if they are still be subsidized by CARB credits.
Every country handles this differently. In my country EV's have a hidden cost to society because they are exempt from any and all kinds of tax and fees. This causes Teslas, that are obviously luxury vehicles, to be price competetive with the upper mid range.(meaning Toyotas and Nissans)
As a result almost 50% of vehicles sold here in 2019 are EV's and Tesla has about 21% of the total car market so far in 2019.
 

Snowdog

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Is Tesla still collecting $50,000 in subsidies per vehicle? It's not working out if they are still be subsidized by CARB credits.
I think it's great that legacy car makers are helping subsidize Tesla because of failure to adapt.

Tesla sells it CARB credits on the open market. They have a Maximum value of $5000 each, because companies short credits will pay that much to CARB directly. As more companies start producing their own EVs, the value of CARB credits on the open market has fallen.
 

Verge

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Is Tesla still collecting $50,000 in subsidies per vehicle? It's not working out if they are still be subsidized by CARB credits.
I'd hope not, they lose money on just about every car sold.
 

Jagger100

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I think it's great that legacy car makers are helping subsidize Tesla because of failure to adapt.

Tesla sells it CARB credits on the open market. They have a Maximum value of $5000 each, because companies short credits will pay that much to CARB directly. As more companies start producing their own EVs, the value of CARB credits on the open market has fallen.
It's a hiddenTax on Gasoline vehicles disguised as an unrealistic standard. And if you need to Tax X to make Y possible. Y is the one having problems adapting.
And they were $5000 each and a normal EV gets 5 for $25,000. Tesla gets 9 because of the automated battery swap scam for $45,000.
 

Snowdog

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It's a hiddenTax on Gasoline vehicles disguised as an unrealistic standard. And if you need to Tax X to make Y possible. Y is the one having problems adapting.
And they were $5000 each and a normal EV gets 5 for $25,000. Tesla gets 9 because of the automated battery swap scam for $45,000.
You do know that fossil fuels are supported by massive subsides, right?

Those battery Swap credits are long gone. It's unclear how much Tesla benefited. It only every applied to Model S, and there was a proposal to significantly gut it in 2014.

Currently Tesla only receives a max of 4 credits/car from info I saw. These have unknown market value, but definitely under $5K, and the impact to business of selling CARB ZEV credits in 2019, appears fairly insignificant:

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459019012758/tsla-ex991_6.htm
"In Q1, we recognized $15 million in revenue from ZEV credit sales compared to less than $1 million in Q4 2018. "
 

CombatChrisNC

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I'd hope not, they lose money on just about every car sold.
Tesla has good margins on their cars. The company was in the red for so long because they have huge CAP-EX and OP-EX while getting product lines up and running. It's less of an issue now that the model 3 is being produced full tilt, followed by the Y.

But GF1 expansions, GF3 construction and further expansion, and GF4 building from scratch aren't free exactly.

Point being, just because the company loses money, it doesn't mean its losing money per-car sold. Key distinction, that's all.
 

odditory

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Tesla has good margins on their cars. The company was in the red for so long because they have huge CAP-EX and OP-EX while getting product lines up and running. It's less of an issue now that the model 3 is being produced full tilt, followed by the Y.

But GF1 expansions, GF3 construction and further expansion, and GF4 building from scratch aren't free exactly.

Point being, just because the company loses money, it doesn't mean its losing money per-car sold. Key distinction, that's all.
It reminds me of the short-sighted, doom and gloom nonsense we'd always read about how Amazon was "losing money" in earlier years. And it was all by design - they were quietly and carefully exexuting a long game to take over the retail world.

I have a feeling the headlines about how terrible and "unprofitable" Tesla is as a company will be hilarious to revisit one day in retrospect.
 

N4CR

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The word "probably" I used each time, is clear indication this is a guesstimate.

But pulling massive trailers across the continent, is almost certainly a LESS than 1% use case.

I have been an EV fan for many years, and this is starting to look like the same phenomena I have seen on the Arstechnica forums. As EVs have gotten progressively better, the attacks have gotten progressively more ridiculous. When they had 80 mile range, people would claim, they had 100 mile commutes, when they had 200 mile range, they had to visit their Aunt every weekend that lived 300 miles away.

There was one guy who started stacking more and more ridiculous conditions, like having to drive a repair part, with no delay to someone in a city 500 miles away.

The "Emergency Trombone Repair Man" is now a meme on the forum.

Now that Tesla is planning a 500 mile range truck, we have 4 solid pages, about towing massive loads, very long distances, like this is suddenly the most important thing people do with Big3 trucks.

It's the same kind of bullshit, focusing on an extreme niche that barely anyone does, like it will disqualify the EV truck from all consideration.
That's called the oil industry able to spend a few billion a day on shills and they still can't lose because as long as that happens they make 5.5 billion a day, every day Tesla or any other EV company is kept from being the top automaker. Why else do you think the big (((media))) attacks them as much as possible? Most of them said CT would be a fail and wouldn't sell. 200k+ pre-orders in a few days says enough.
SUVs are the tipping point in this equation. 2022... when the CT launches, there will be more options in this product area.

48700238-15422501377430449.png

Source: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4225153-evs-oil-ice-impact-2023-beyond (also a good article)

Reminds me of the 'most qualified candidate in history' and 'it being their turn' and '99% sure to get in' all over again, when the media is told to do something, they do it and they repeat it enough that they actually believe it.


This video and article say enough on this.
The Tesla Conspiracy: By Jack Rickard, the guy who was making EVs when musk was smoking bud in highschool...


Article here
http://evtv.me/2019/08/the-tesla-conspiracy-or-am-i-a-dead-whistleblower/

So just because your EV now only has a pathetic 500 mile range, superchargers are blocked everywhere, plus your work is 12 hours away uphill both ways with a 50 tonne trailer in hurricane winds, it still ain't going to stop Tesla or EVs from taking over.
 

seanreisk

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It reminds me of the short-sighted, doom and gloom nonsense we'd always read about how Amazon was "losing money" in earlier years. And it was all by design - they were quietly and carefully exexuting a long game to take over the retail world.
Musk is very aware of the bottom line, and he's very aware of startup costs. He used to talk about these things, they are the big factors driving his business decisions.

I remember watching a presentation he made when he was starting SpaceX. He talked about the four big factors that drive the profitability of a business:

1)Cost to design + 2)Cost of materials + 3)Cost to manufacture + 4) Liability <= 5) Market Price

When he was developing SpaceX he couldn't come up with a scenario (beyond utter failure) where he wasn't below 50% of the current pricing for orbital flights. And he was right, and now SpaceX is eating everyone's lunch.
 
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Fremunaln

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I was wrong, the number isn't 90%, it's 95%.

"It's important to note a point Barta's been making for months about the Duramax figures, though. "Even though it’s nice to brag about big numbers, in reality, light duty customers are not towing that large with their trucks," and, "We do know that (95 percent) of our light duty customers don’t tow over 9,000 pounds"

Got any other data for the 1/2t market that says otherwise? Get much bigger than 9000lbs and you are getting into a price tag for the trailer that indicates the owner would have the financial means to buy into the current crop.of 3/4 diesel trucks (which can be bought into below the cost of the 3 motor CT). Those have tice the capacity as the Tesla.

Let's be honest here, at 70k (if that even actual MSRP and not the Tesla cost after "savings") the Tri-Motor is priced above the Denali, High Summit, Limited, Platinum and King Ranch trims with it's main competition. And no one pays MSRP on those either. This thing is competitive at the 40k and 50k marks, but the range at 250/300mi does become a point.

If the Model X is losing 50% range with a 5k load, that means a 150mi range if you need to tow something. Towing a boat, a car or modest camping trailer will hit 5k load. I might not be towing it everyday, but I bought a truck so I could on that couple of times a year I do.

If it can't do the job when I need it it to, no matter how infrequently, it will still play into my purchase decision. Acknowledging the limitations isn't an attack.
Thanks for actually posting numbers from a source and not guesstimates.
 

Fremunaln

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Jesus christ the amount of reaching you guys are doing you could jerk me off across the atlantic. The cybercrap is going to work out just fine, just like the other Teslas has worked out just fine despite all the FUD.
LOL, this thread is like any typical AMD vs INTEL Android VS IOS measuring contest, with folks foaming at the mouth and unable to comprehend whats being said. I get it, Elon is Steve Jobs without the turtleneck and you`d do anything for him.

But folks need to snap out of the habit of hearing what they want to hear and see what folks are saying. Most of the so-called grumpy folks are pointing out actual limitations, not foretelling that the CYBERTRUCK is going to be Tesla's flop thats gonna be the end, leave those for wallstreetbets.

If you still believe the Cybertruck is beyond the limits of reality and etc, I hope the compensation package from Tesla is at least good...
 

Snowdog

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LOL, this thread is like any typical AMD vs INTEL Android VS IOS measuring contest, with folks foaming at the mouth and unable to comprehend whats being said. I get it, Elon is Steve Jobs without the turtleneck and you`d do anything for him.
There is an Apple analogy, but it's more like when people don't understand Apple products, so they crap on them, and then when those products are successful, they crap on the buyers, for being iSheep (Now TesSheep, SheepSla?) and buying them crappy products.

The more reasonable answer, is that both Tesla and Apple, make good products, and that is why people buy them.


Most of the so-called grumpy folks are pointing out actual limitations,
We have had 5 pages of harping on the same single limitation. Range while towing. Because with 500 miles of range available, it gets much hard to claim isn't enough, so now we get the act that the most important thing for a pickup truck is towing big loads long distances, and we can get back to pouncing on the range.
 

N4CR

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It reminds me of the short-sighted, doom and gloom nonsense we'd always read about how Amazon was "losing money" in earlier years. And it was all by design - they were quietly and carefully exexuting a long game to take over the retail world.

I have a feeling the headlines about how terrible and "unprofitable" Tesla is as a company will be hilarious to revisit one day in retrospect.
Same way I started my first business. Nearly had to take a step back from it.. then got a break and then it took over and is #1 in the country.. Our competitors literally moved out of the country.
Business isn't about get quick rich schemes. It takes hard work, lot of time and perseverance. And let the haters and naysayers feed you. Don't feed them.

There is an Apple analogy, but it's more like when people don't understand Apple products, so they crap on them, and then when those products are successful, they crap on the buyers, for being iSheep (Now TesSheep, SheepSla?) and buying them crappy products.

The more reasonable answer, is that both Tesla and Apple, make good products, and that is why people buy them.
Fair points. Tesla and Apple have slightly similar repairability and walled gardens in some ways but Tesla seems much more reliable than Apple and actually is the best product in the class, without the compromises and form over function design wank (yeah fuck thermal design on laptops) of Apple. Cybertruck is what Apple would build if they truly had courage and balls to still innovate (ipod/iphone/ type revolutionary product). Apple does make good stuff on occasion but those days are getting far and few between.
 

Snowdog

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. Cybertruck is what Apple would build if they truly had courage and balls to still innovate (ipod/iphone/ type revolutionary product). Apple does make good stuff on occasion but those days are getting far and few between.
Cybertruck is a bombshell.

I agree, it's a product Apple never would have done. If Apple was in the Car business, I can see them building almost anything in the rest of Tesla's lineup, but if Apple were building a pickup, it would have been something like a cross between Tesla Model 3, and a Honda Ridgeline: Blah.

People can still make the argument that they need a Fossil Fuel vehicle for serious long distance towing.

But for majority of use cases this thing is a beast, and that stainless body will be a big selling point for those who value rugged trucks, and that what all the Big3 truck marketing focuses on.

Forget Model Y. I want a CyberSUV. Serious scratch and dent protection, and serious corrosion resistance, are a big draw here in the Salt Belt.

This has to be significant blow, to the other EV Pickup efforts, including those from Ford and GM.

Cybertruck is already making me bummed out, that I can't get a small SUV with a super tough Stainless Body.
 

N4CR

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Cybertruck is a bombshell.

But for majority of use cases this thing is a beast, and that stainless body will be a big selling point for those who value rugged trucks, and that what all the Big3 truck marketing focuses on.

Forget Model Y. I want a CyberSUV. Serious scratch and dent protection, and serious corrosion resistance, are a big draw here in the Salt Belt.

Cybertruck is already making me bummed out, that I can't get a small SUV with a super tough Stainless Body.
Bang on. I too am mostly drawn by the body above all else. I am by the sea often so same thing as you in the rust belt, some cars just don't hack it out there...
And hilariously an EV is stronger than the 'muh built tough' bullshit marketing.

I too would love a steel body sprog-hauler in future. But I guess CT will have to do for now when that day comes (pardon the pun). Issue is stamping and shape won't allow melted soapbar type designs so they'll be pretty boxy and probably even uglier. If you can get over the ugly maybe Tesla will have something for you one day!
 

Verge

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It reminds me of the short-sighted, doom and gloom nonsense we'd always read about how Amazon was "losing money" in earlier years. And it was all by design - they were quietly and carefully exexuting a long game to take over the retail world..
Yea but Bezos consistantly promised and overdelivered for 20 years.


Outside of SpaceX, has Elon met a single release or production date?
 
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I really like the Cybertruck but I also own a 2013 Nissan Juke so I like different when it comes to vehicle design. That being said my next car will be a EV and right now the Cybertruck and Mustang Mach-E are at the top of my list but I won't make the decision till 2023 when my Juke is ten years old. Till then, I hope prices will come down with my EV competition while I save up my pennies :)
 

Youn

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I thought cyber truck was bullet proof. I hope that goldeneye mod is not the last we see. It'd also work great in deus ex, carmageddon (with some saw blades perhaps), or any racing game
 

griff30

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I wish there was a way to actually have an acceleration sound.
Superfluous in an EV of course but an optional safety app for pedestrians and animals.
As long as the sound was able to sych with the acceleration.
Could be a 2 cycle bike, V8 supercar, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang or the Millennium Falcon.
Just an app that allows you to have the sound of even a fictional vehicle for acceleration.

I would chose the Millennium Falcon of course.
 

Nimisys

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I wish there was a way to actually have an acceleration sound.
Superfluous in an EV of course but an optional safety app for pedestrians and animals.
As long as the sound was able to sych with the acceleration.
Could be a 2 cycle bike, V8 supercar, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang or the Millennium Falcon.
Just an app that allows you to have the sound of even a fictional vehicle for acceleration.

I would chose the Millennium Falcon of course.
The Fisker Karma did this. It was audible to about 20mph when the tire noise overcame it. You can find YouTube videos of it.

Also I can't be the only one that has noticed the horrible panel quality on the CT prototype that has been caught driving around. You going to put bare metal out there in a flat slabs, it had better be straight. This is anything but.
 

Skyblue

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Oh Elon loves to troll
Yeah. The EU made a law that EVs have to make a sound while driving below 20km/h as they are too silent. EVs mind you. Not other silent cars like a Rolls Royce or Mercedes S..

Now, Elon saysbthatbTesla will support the aound of two coconuts banged together :)

I want either porn or the ride of the valkyries :)
 
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