Tesla Model Y Production Starts November 2019

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by DooKey, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. DooKey

    DooKey [H]ard DCOTM x4

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    There's hope for those of you that were holding out for a Tesla SUV according to Reuters. Two sources told them that Tesla is going to begin production of the Model Y SUV in November of next year. Of course we all know about the problems Tesla is having with production of the Model 3 and I'm surprised they would try to ramp up production on a new model when they haven't worked all the bugs out of current production. Regardless, November of next year is a long way off and a lot can change between now and then. Good luck, Tesla.

    The two sources said suppliers could be estimating an annual production of 500,000 vehicles in the United States, with much lower volume in China, likely in the tens of thousands. Building 500,000 Model Ys per year would be the equivalent of what Musk has planned for total production in Fremont by the end of this year, although the company is nowhere near that volume.
     
  2. PantherBlitz

    PantherBlitz Limp Gawd

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    Investors: "Will this company survive without pumping in tons of cash?"
    Tesla: "Well, umm you see its like this ...look - a SUV!"
     
  3. DocNo

    DocNo Gawd

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    Crap, they can't even get the Model 3 out the door and they are going to ramp up another line?

    I love the idea of Tesla. For the most part I really like the cars (some more physical controls for AC, radio, etc would be nice however) but lately it's become obvious that they may not have what it takes to survive. Which is a shame.

    I'm now glad I didn't bite on a Model 3 reservation :/
     
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  4. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, the flip side is this criticism: Tesla has nothing new planned, they are dead in innovation, and the product line is stale
     
  5. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Still waiting on a half-ton pickup from them.
    But still not sure about their overall outlook.
     
  6. mothandras

    mothandras n00b

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    Tesla will be sold off to another car company, who will sell them as luxury cars in their brand lines. Elon is too busy trying to get to Mars to worry about making cars faster.
     
  7. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    If they aren't ambitious, they wouldn't survive, your typical American quarter to quarter bullshit CEO is exactly how they would have been dead years ago.
    They will not die, Model 3 will ramp up.. I don't know WTF people expect, they are lifting up to scale to a mayor industry.. Yes I know he said this, and that and they are behind.. but truth or the matter is, car production is an monster undertaking, and many countries don't even try.
     
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  8. visionviper

    visionviper [H]ard|Gawd

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    They think assembly automation is going to be their savior but I think they are still struggling on the normal car company stuff. As far as I can tell, they have 2 years to figure it out. Almost everyone is bringing out their big guns in 2020, so if Tesla can't compete by then in quality, service, and features then they will start seeing all their sales slip away. At that point Tesla better hope for fleet sales on autonomous cars because I don't really feel like Tesla builds cars for being driven by people. Perfect example is the insane single display solution in the Model 3, and they've basically admitted it themselves by saying Autopilot would make [insert missing/weird/whatever thing] ok.
     
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  9. thejokker

    thejokker Gawd

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    Unless a new battery technology appears that uses commonly available raw materials electric cars for the foreseeable future are a dead end. Pyramid scam anyone?
     
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  10. gamerk2

    gamerk2 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, people seem to think it's cheap setting up a manufacturing base from nothing, or setting up a nationwide network of high-capacity superchargers isn't necessary for success. Worst case they cut back on building supercharging stations for a year or two while things ramp up. Tesla's losses are largely due to expenditures, not anything structural.

    Tesla is going to be just fine; all the hard work is done, all they have to do is ramp production.
     
  11. RussianJ

    RussianJ [H]Lite

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    Model Y? A smaller SUV perhaps?
     
  12. carnageX

    carnageX Limp Gawd

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    Model S
    Model 3
    Model X
    Model Y

    iseewhatudidthere.jpg
     
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  13. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    You dont have to be first to market to make it big. You just have to do it better.
     
  14. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It didn't help that they fired a ton of people (rumors were, the highest paid went even though they cited "performance") and can't get their assembly line working correctly.

    That's the issue with announcing a new model, if you can't even get your other models made. How do they expect to fix the assembly line issues while also tooling for the next car? You're doing double the work (found bottleneck/issue with assembly line A, apply corrections to line A and B).

    They have a massive factory and plenty of space, but I think they should have probably fixed the issues with the assembly line they have before building another one for a new model.
     
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  15. DocNo

    DocNo Gawd

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    They obviously don't know how to build cars at volume with the Model 3. They are burning through their cash at a furious pace and are in a real danger of running out of money. Standing up a new line (and additional cash drain) will help with this how?

    I hope you are right, but they haven't shown they know how yet. When pressed all we get is finger pointing and hand waving.

    And they most certainly can easily die. Just look at their financials right now. Other than marketing to try to lure more investment and stave off their running out of money, I don't see the benefits of starting up another production line for them right now.
     
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  16. DocNo

    DocNo Gawd

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    lol

    Might as well be "insert magical item here"

    All they have to do indeed...
     
  17. NAXDON

    NAXDON Limp Gawd

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    Really. but, Y?
     
  18. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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  19. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I thought the Model X was their SUV?

    I don't know what they are doing.

    I requested a refund on my Model 3 reservation last week.

    I have no idea what's going to replace my aging Volvo daily driver now.

    I had hoped it would be a Model 3, but they can't seem to get their production together, and I don't care for the minimalist interior anyway.

    Then I was thinking Polestar, but they seem to have given up on competing with Tesla, and besides, who knows how much of it is built/designed in China. Can't trust that Chinese shit.


    142K miles and counting. Hopefully it lasts a bit longer.
     
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  20. deadlift1

    deadlift1 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Dyson, yes the vacuum guy, is investing nearly $3B to build an electric car to compete with the model 3. It is due in 2020 but we all know how likely that will be.
     
  21. cjcox

    cjcox [H]ard|Gawd

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    Model 3
    Model X
    Model C
    Model U
    Model S
    Model E
     
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  22. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    Inventing new technology and scaling it to worldwide availability never comes without its hitches. Companies like ford or chevy that have been around for ever are clearly more suited for delivering stopgap electronic vehicles in the meantime. While Tesla may take some time to iron out some production woes, don't be as nearsighted to think that they don't have that market by the balls.
     
  23. mynamehere

    mynamehere [H]ard|Gawd

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    I thought it was their minivan.
     
  24. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    In the end, apart from a few inches of ground clearance, what really separates a minivan from an SUV these days?

    Silly people buying vehicles based on image, rather than on actual practicality.

    I'd drive any minivan before I bought an SUV. I don't give a shit if people think I look cool in my car or not. I guess I don't have pathetic self confidence issues :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
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  25. SLee

    SLee Gawd

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    It's on the big and heavy side; the Y will probably be somewhere CRV/RAV4 size (180-185" long, 73" wide).

    North American minivans have also gotten really big, all over 200", much larger than the wildly popular compact and mid-size crossovers.
     
  26. Term-X

    Term-X 2[H]4U

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    This is pretty much a no-win for Tesla. It doesn't matter what they do or don't do, it will never be enough. I'm not sure if there is another comparable company that has been under this kind of scrutiny at every turn. I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with lobbyists from a particular industry drumming up any horseshit they can.
     
  27. krotch

    krotch [H]ardness Supreme

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    Second generation Nissan Leaf?

    Do you expect your Volvo not to last much longer? I'd assume a Volvo with regular maintenance could reach 300k miles.
     
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  28. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    Minivans are less cool than SUVs because they are the worst thing you can drive. They are heavy, gutless and lack any style. They aren't fun and signify that you've given up on life and your just going through the motions, waiting to reach an age where you can live with your kids or die in a retirement home. SUVs can provide versatility and can at least look good and make decent enough power to be fun in SOME situations. Mini-vans? Nope.
     
  29. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Minivans are typically more practical than SUV's. And life isn't defined by what vehicle you drive.

    In the end, I'd argue that we would all be better off if everyone were more pragmatic and less image conscious when it came to their vehicles. IN car forums I often here the term "grocery getter" used in a derogatory fashion, but that makes no sense to me at all.

    Why were the roads made? To get us to and from work, to drop the kids off at school, to haul the family for vacation, and yes, to get the groceries.

    Its the people who try to turn driving into some sort of lifestyle statement who are the problem :p
     
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  30. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    To some people, vehicles are nothing more than tools. For people like you, something purely practical has appeal. To others, driving is fun. Some of us have a passion for cars and trucks. Vehicle ownership isn't the same thing for those of us with a passion for such things.

    As a pure driving machine, a mini-van is the antithises of what we enjoy in other types of vehicles. They aren't good at anything but carrying people. The driving experience is like a prison sentence or going to a Celine Dion concert and listening to that fucking Titanic song. It's like being forced to go to a week long insurance seminar or fuck Azureth's she beast. The thought of it alone is unpleasant.

    And I disagree, a vehicle can very much be part of our identity. It's not necessarily important in the grand scheme of things but if we have to spend a lot of time in a metal box or wedge on wheels, we should at least enjoy the experience as much as we can.

    If you can't understand that then I don't know if I should feel envious of you for not caring about driving or feel sorry for you because you don't see the experience as anything other than a routine task that's about as interesting as taking the trash out it doing dishes.
     
  31. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    The Volvo is damned near bullet proof as long as I keep up with maintenance. My mechanic has several in his loaner pool with 300-400k miles on them, still running well.

    While it was 100% problem free for the first 130k miles, maintenance after 130k has been expensive enough that a monthly payment on a new car would have been less. I'm still holsing on though, hoping that once I get through this stretch, it will go for another 100k miles mostly problem free :p


    Yuck.

    I want a car that handles like a European sedan, and in general behaves like a European sedan in every way possible except for having an electric motor and a battery instead of a fuel tank.

    I THOUGHT this was Tesla based on their Model S, but the S was always too pricy for me, and now that the Model 3 is being produced, the shift away from a driver centric cockpit with its minimalistic interior is very off putting tho me.

    My requirements are:
    - 200+ mile battery range
    - Sedan or wagon
    - Medium performance (0-60 in ~6s or so. I'm no a raceboy, but I do want to be able to safely pass and merge onto the highway)
    - Cornering stability equivalent to European "sports" sedans

    If I could get a basic late 90's Volvo V70, but as a 200+ mile electric car, that's what I would get.

    I don't care for any of these fancy new self driving technologies, or ridiculous spaceship designs, or integrated IoT I just want a solid good car that is a car, that also is electric so I can save on gas and maintenance.

    The Model 3, the Bolt, the Leaf, the BMW i3, none of these appeal to me.

    The Polestar 2 had promise, but now I'm not so impressed by it either.

    I used to be a huge car guy, but truth be told, I've lost interest in the last 15 years. Nothing new on the market appeals to me anymore.
     
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  32. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I used to feel like this back when I was a Saab enthusiast. It was like my car had a soul, and was an extension of my body.

    These days I've grown old and cynical I guess. Either that, or I've just matured. I'll let others be the judge of that.

    Now, to me, a vehicle is just something that gets me, my stuff and my family from point A to point B, and a vehicle is primarily judged by how practical it is (folding seats and luggage space, roof racks, etc. are great!) and the enthusiasts who mod their cars and drive fast just seem like silly children without perspective. :p

    I have no problem if people enjoy performance driving, but its really something that should be done on a track, not on public roads. I'm so tired of putting up with the 2fast2furious jerks dangerously weaving through traffic, and blinding everyone with their illegal aftermarket HID/LED lights.

    That being said, I disagree with your statements regarding minivans vs. SUV comparisons. I have found they have much more positive driving characteristics than most SUV's do (with the possible exception of the likes of the Porsche Cayenne, which I understand handles uncharacteristically well for a tall vehicle.)
     
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  33. DocNo

    DocNo Gawd

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    If GM could figure out how to make interior plastic that didn't feel cheaper than a Fisher Price toy I'd be all over the Bolt. It's a really, really nice car in all other aspects.

    Mazda is rumored to be working on a hybrid with a rotary as a true range extender - coupled to a generator to charge the battery only - no mechanical linkage to the drive train (what I thought the Bolt was but alas, it's more like the Prius). If they do bring it out and the pricing on it is decent it could be a nice balance between expensive battery packs and gas backup for extended range.

    The real problem here is battery tech still isn't where it needs to be on cost, charge time or longevity to effectively compete with gasoline yet :(
     
  34. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    Minivans have shit straight line acceleration and poor responsiveness. The SUV's I've driven are all infinitely better than any mini-van in almost every respect except when it comes to entrance, egress and cargo capacity. They aren't necessarily good cargo haulers either as a real truck or van does that better too. A minivan is a mediocre vehicle that's good at only one thing. From the driver's perspective, it's not even good at that. A big SUV like a Taho or Suburban can carry as many, if not more people in relative comfort and still offer a better driving experience and utility that a minivan can't, such as the ability to tow much heavier loads.

    And you can enjoy the responsiveness of a fast car as well as its other characteristics without being a total douche bag on the streets. You can leverage the acceleration and responsiveness in a variety of situations. I've seen people weaving in and out of traffic and engaging in dangerous behavior in shitty vehicles that aren't suited for it as often or more often than I have out of performance and enthusiast vehicles. I see mid-range, medium sized sedans weaving through traffic at 80MPH or more, lunging around like a drunk giraffe on bald tires every day. I see plenty of Vettes, Mustangs and Camaros that don't do that.

    Even if they did, it's arguably safer because the vehicles are more capable at speeds and the enthusiasts who drive them take better care of the vehicles mechanically. At least in theory. There are exceptions to every rule I suppose.
     
  35. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I agree on GM's interior plastics. That was one of my biggest complaints with the GM Made Saabs back when I was a Saab enthusiast. They reversed all the material choices Saab made before they were wholly owned by GM, replacing soft touch and textured materials with GM-style flat hard black plastic. Hated it.

    I don't see what you see with the Bolt in general though. Its only appealing aspect to me is that it is a 200+ mile BEV. Every other aspect of the vehicle turns me off. Its too small, the seating position is too tall (I like my vehicles nice and low to the ground).

    it reminds me of a GM made Toyota Matrix, but with the price tag of a BMW or Audi.
     
  36. Miikun

    Miikun Limp Gawd

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    I've driven minivans pretty hard, they're pretty fun to drive if they have enough power (~300hp they accelerate just fine thank you. At ar), they're just a lot scarier at the limit but handles much better than truck based SUVs, and I've had just as fun canyon carving in a v6 Sienna SE as my STI (when you have enough power to exceed your traction, it's always fun, even if it's not particularly fast, it's all about the challenge). If Tesla made a minivan, i'd be standing in line for a reservation since i'm already all solar'ed up. But if the Y has removable / fold flat seats like a minivan so I can fit large furniture, that may do in a pinch. The X is pretty hopeless for hauling anything other than people and I don't have a big family. I haven't driven a model 3 yet but people say it drives like an e46 3 series, so I expect the Y to drive well since it's built on the same platform. Though you do lose the sound, the whine just isn't the same and part of the fun is listening to the engine and choosing the gear in a gas car.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
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  37. Epic|

    Epic| Limp Gawd

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    He's literally sleeping at the factory.
     
  38. DocNo

    DocNo Gawd

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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  39. DocNo

    DocNo Gawd

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    It's small, economical and utilitarian. If I was commuting every weekday still I'd have it or a Leaf. Also they are chaining HOV around here and I'd need the ability to hold at least three people since my commuting car is a Mazda Miata - it's also my fun car. It's older (a 1997) but in mint condition (only 60K miles) and a blast to drive in the twisty roads. It's cheap to own, insure, register and maintain. Did I mention it's really hard to not smile when driving on twisty roads in it? Straight line acceleration is fine for a drag strip but doesn't get you much in the real world. Other than some people obviously compensating for inadequacies in other areas of their life I never understood the fascination with it. A small car that's basically an over-sized go cart? Sign me up! Heck the only reason I don't own a motorcycle is I know I would lay it over in the corners. The Miata is more fun and far safer if you get stupid (which I probably would). But I digress...

    Oh well - I don't commute every day these days, so absolute fuel economy isn't as great a priority. My current vehicles are running just fine and should easily give me years more of service. I've still yet to own an automatic or front wheel drive car and the longer I can prevent having to so so the happier I will probably be. Once I do ditch the stick, about the only thing I would want to do it for is an electric - which is why I think the proposed Mazda with a small gas rotary engine as a range extender used only in combo with a generator appeals to me. Rotary engines are tiny in comparison to piston engines. Many of their issues with seals, torque vs. HP and such are a complete non-issue in a use case where they will be allowed to come up and remain at their optimum RPM on a continuous basis. I would love to see Mazda produce such a car - it would be a game changer and dramatically help people with the whole "range anxiety" issues without breaking the bank on battery packs that are overly expensive in sizes that can support the typical 250 mile range of a tank of gas and thus what people like me feel uncomfortable if we don't have.

    I suspect if they did produce such a car and I bought one, I would find what a lot of Bolt owners know - it's more a pain to keep gas from going bad before you get around to using it. Oh well, I'll feel better with it being there and not needing it than potentially getting in a situation where I need it and don't have it. Irrational or not :)

    Bottom line for me - automobiles could use a shake up. The complexity of todays internal combustion cars is simply staggering. Fluids alone - let's see there's windshield washer, break, clutch (brake fluid, but a separate system if you have a manual), AC refrigerant, engine coolant, power steering, engine oil, transmission fluid, differential fluid.

    Electric cars? Windshield washer, brake and AC. That's it. Moving parts? A Tesla has fewer moving parts in the entire car than just the internal combustion engines in my cars. Belts? Don't need 'em in electric car. Yes, there are some potential battery maintenance issues long term with electrics, but I will never have to spend $300-$400 just on parts to replace a timing belt, $1200 for broken welds on exhaust headers, etc. If costs around batteries can be lowered regular cars don't stand a chance.

    I do realize that the Bolt or Mazda I'm looking at don't share the same benefits - but the Mazda would be far closer by far.

    Maintenance is the big reason dealers hate electric cars. They don't really make their bank on car sales - it's the service where they make their money. Electrics stand to change that dramatically. Unfortunately maintenance is one area where Tesla are almost as big of jerks as John Deer with their DRM encumbered tractors... but that's probably a third thread at this point.
     
  40. Miikun

    Miikun Limp Gawd

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    I don't think you need to worry, with VW group's big electric push, I'm sure you'll be able to get an electric Audi pretty soon. I don't think everyone else will go with the minimalist cockpit right away. Part of the dieselgate settlement is to spend billions on an electric charging infra in the US, and Europe already has CCS so it will become practical soon. I'm also not sure if there will be such a large cost premium for RWD anymore so maybe future electric Golf and Passats might be rear wheel drive at the low end, wouldn't that be great?
     
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