Tesla Model S Hits 300,000 Miles in Two Years, Saving $60,000 on Fuel Costs

Megalith

24-bit/48kHz
Staff member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13,000
Transport company Tesloop has reached 300,000 miles on one of their Model S vehicles and estimates that they would have spent between $70,000 and $86,000 in fuel costs and maintenance if a comparable gas-powered car was used for their service. Thanks to electric technology, it only had to spend $10,492 over two years, with a total of 12 days in the shop.

“…we have seen that electric, supercharged vehicles can be deployed at utilization levels unheard of with gas vehicles. And while saving over $60,000 on fuel and maintenance is a substantial economic win, we feel the bigger win is that this car is ready for another 900,000 miles over the next 6 years under its current warranty. A gas car with 300k miles would be near the end of its useful lifespan. This means that the economics for mobility services on electric is more attractive than non-electric vehicles by a multiple, and when combined with autonomous driving features, the economic advantage in cost per mile will create unprecedented disruption in the overall automotive industry.”
 
I am assuming the $10,492 includes the cost of their electric. I have had two chevy volts and my electric bill went up $15 a month -- i can assume its even less for a business that pays a lot less per KWH then residents do.

My 2012 Volt has 75,000 miles, orginal battery still holds nearly the same charge as new.
 
I am assuming the $10,492 includes the cost of their electric. I have had two chevy volts and my electric bill went up $15 a month -- i can assume its even less for a business that pays a lot less per KWH then residents do.

My 2012 Volt has 75,000 miles, orginal battery still holds nearly the same charge as new.

10492 was maintenance and repairs. They claimed the charging was "virtually free". If you were to do this at home, it would be several thousand in electricity FYI.
 
How much were the Tesla Model S cars initial purchase price compared to a normal IC vehicle? Add that to maintenance and fuel charges and compare them now. Last I checked you could get a full size nicely equipped IC car for about $20-30,000ish vs. the cheapest Model at $87,780 (for base Model S 75D according to tesla.com).
 
10492 was maintenance and repairs. They claimed the charging was "virtually free". If you were to do this at home, it would be several thousand in electricity FYI.

Of course it's virtually free; commercial pays on the peaks (really, the PFC ratio) so an intermittent charging load wouldn't have much of an impact on cost. It wouldn't look as good for residential. We'll probably need 'charging parks' to do this in residential neighbourhoods until our infrastructure is upgraded.
 
Assuming all the numbers don't hide anything, this really does put it into perspective. I'm not sure I'm ready for an electric car, but it's nice to see progress being made.
 
Looks to almost be a wash in the long-term. Almost.

However, given that I - as a private citizen - do not get free electricity, would (as M76 said) prefer to save my money up front and pay for the gas a little bit at a time over the life of the vehicle vs. paying $$$$ upfront for the vehicle and saving money on "fuel" over life of the vehicle (as I would with a Tesla).

Oh and in the long term replacing the electric battery pack is no where near as cheap as say a transmission or even a blown motor in an IC car (which if properly maintained, you wouldn't ever even need to do).
 
Assuming all the numbers don't hide anything, this really does put it into perspective. I'm not sure I'm ready for an electric car, but it's nice to see progress being made.

It'll be interesting to see if it ever does take off. Range still sucks and if you're idling in traffic on your commute at -30 you're running down the battery for heat. Ditto for border crossings where it's still possible to sit for 5 hours and not move. None of these articles ever cover seem to cover the practical parts of transport.
 
Cool, but how much did it make their power bills rise? Was this taken into account on top of the "savings" or were they strictly fuel related?
10492 was maintenance and repairs. They claimed the charging was "virtually free". If you were to do this at home, it would be several thousand in electricity FYI.

Let's do the math.
Model S w/ 75 kW battery can go ~250 miles. 250/75 = 3.33 miles / kWh
This seems reasonable from the 3.1 to 3.5 numbers I saw on the tesla forums.
Average cost of electricity in the US is $0.12. (.12 / 3.33) = 0.036 $ / mile
They drove 300,000 miles. 300,000 * 0.036 = $10,800

If their electricity is cheaper - say 0.08 (what mine is) - then it would go down to $7,200

So their $10,492 could very well include the electricity.
 
Assuming all the numbers don't hide anything, this really does put it into perspective. I'm not sure I'm ready for an electric car, but it's nice to see progress being made.

Coal fired power plants though...so that 300,000 miles probably really bad



Also WTF kind of voodoo are they using

300000/40MPG = 7500 Gallons

80k in Fuel is $10.6 per gallon

Even 20MPG it's $5.3

Lets say 20Mpg rate @ $3 per gallon

45k in Fuel....35k in Maintenance?! Is that a new crate engine swap to a 5MPG Ford GT engine?
 
What if I purchased a 40.000 car instead of the 100.000 tesla and saved 60.000 instantly? Yeah right, and superchargers won't be free for much longer.
You would have spent about $30K in fuel, so that brings you up to $70K, and with that many miles, you may need a complete drivetrain swap as well, lets say $20K in maintenance.
So you are at $90K spent and you are driving a car worth probably $10K after all those miles, even though you have a new drivetrain, while the Tesla may still be worth $50K plus.

To be honest, I'd rather be driving a $100K car vs a $40K car that I sunk $60K into, lol.
 
I'm a big fan of electrics but the current issues for me are:

1) Upfront cost vs regular car (as per this article)
2) Electrical recharging infrastructure isn't as widespread on the east coast (where I am)
3) Slow recharging speeds vs just filling up gas

If the money works out to be equal - which if you use Tesla model S, which are on the expensive side of the electric car spectrum - I don't think they will.

Besides, people drive cars for hundreds of thousands of miles without having to replace the engine or transmission or any other major component - if it was properly maintained.

Using current battery technology, battery packs will definitely expire (stop taking / holding a charge) and have to be replaced. It's when not if.
 
Last edited:
The linked article is very short on detail, including what IC-powered automobiles they were comparing the Tesla's operating costs to.
 
The website looks like a pro-electric cheerleader website so not surprising in the bias.

The linked article is very short on detail, including what IC-powered automobiles they were comparing the Tesla's operating costs to.
 
Coal fired power plants though...so that 300,000 miles probably really bad



Also WTF kind of voodoo are they using

300000/40MPG = 7500 Gallons

80k in Fuel is $10.6 per gallon

Even 20MPG it's $5.3

Lets say 20Mpg rate @ $3 per gallon

45k in Fuel....35k in Maintenance?! Is that a new crate engine swap to a 5MPG Ford GT engine?

yeah.. using the $70K "savings" at $3 a gallon, they are comparing to a car that only gets 13 mpg
 
Yup, my 2009 Suburban has spent a grand total of 2 days in the shop in 8 years, it can haul a hell of a lot more than a Tesla (and could easily tow one in case it was desired), and it was a lot cheaper to buy and maintain. I know, I'm a caveman and causing the ocean to rise. :ROFLMAO:

And anyone that argues for the good of the planet and drives 300k miles in a couple years should be shot. Move closer to work or stay at home occasionally unless you are a long haul truck driver, of course then you wouldn't be driving an electric toy car.
 
So they had a car driving 400+ miles a day, every day, for 2 years? Requiring a full recharge every day. If nothing else, it speaks to the durability of the electrical systems.
This is the real story here. A properly maintained, modern ICE vehicle can reasonably be expected to hit 200-300k miles, but you aren't looking at much more than that without engine/transmission rebuilds. It looks like the use of this particular vehicle was essentially a long distance cab company. The longevity of the vehicle under high mileage use makes a strong case for use as a fleet, company issued vehicle for business trips. Looking to replace a traditional ICE vehicle after 200-300k miles, or looking at getting three times more use out of it, certainly makes a good financial argument as well!
 
"And while saving over $60,000 on fuel and maintenance is a substantial economic win, we feel the bigger win is that this car is ready for another 900,000 miles over the next 6 years under its current warranty. A gas car with 300k miles would be near the end of its useful lifespan. This means that the economics for mobility services on electric is more attractive than non-electric vehicles by a multiple"

This quote cracks me up. The only reason the car lasted this long is because it is built by Tesla. Its a luxury car built in relatively limited numbers compared to the likes of other Auto manufacturers. I guarantee the second you ramp up production to levels of some gasoline vehicles and then have one of the largest manufacturers make it for the mainstream, everything about the economics that he is praising will go away.
 
Looks to almost be a wash in the long-term. Almost.

However, given that I - as a private citizen - do not get free electricity, would (as M76 said) prefer to save my money up front and pay for the gas a little bit at a time over the life of the vehicle vs. paying $$$$ upfront for the vehicle and saving money on "fuel" over life of the vehicle (as I would with a Tesla).

Oh and in the long term replacing the electric battery pack is no where near as cheap as say a tranmission or even a blown motor in an IC car (which if properly maintained, you wouldn't ever even need to do).
Saving "up front" will also save a LOT in loan interest. That'll pay for a lot of dino juice.
 
So they had a car driving 400+ miles a day, every day, for 2 years? Requiring a full recharge every day. If nothing else, it speaks to the durability of the electrical systems.


Replaced front motor after 30,000 miles.....

replaced battery after 200,000 miles
oh and it was covered under warranty and therefore not included in cost.


“We did have a few things go wrong,” Sonnad said. At about 30,000 miles, the car was relaying messages to Tesla HQ that the motor was operating at low power. “Tesla called us up and told us that,” Sonnad said. “We didn’t notice any problems. It was super fast.” But Tesla had the company bring the car in, and it replaced the front motor.

Then, just as the car hit 200,000 miles, the range estimator became inaccurate. Though the car didn’t actually lose any range, the estimator would say it could go another ten miles—and then power down. Tesla looked into the issue, and told Tesloop that there’s a battery chemistry state that high-mileage cars go into, and the software isn’t properly compensating for that change. There will be a firmware update in three months that will take care of the discrepancy, but Tesla just replaced the battery to solve the problem. “We got our 6% range back with the new battery,” Sonnad said with a laugh. “But had the firmware been updated, we’d be fine and plugging along.”

Tesloop has paid to replace the car’s 12-volt battery for $190, and it buys sets of off-the-shelf 40,000-mile Goodyear tires pretty regularly, for a total of about $2,500 in the past year. And those are the only maintenance costs it’s had, thanks to Tesla’s unlimited 8-year warranty. “We haven’t even replaced the brakes,” Sonnad said.
 
20,270 in fuel costs.
vs
11,000 dollars in electrical costs
Saves 60,000 dollars
When the car costs $43,000 dollars more.

I would say their math is unbelievably generous. Modern 4 door sedans can pull 37MPG average. At 2.50 a gallon for 87octane on average across the timescale they refer to that is 20,270.
Electricity would cost about 11 grand for the tesla
So you saved about 9 grand ish.
But paid 43grand more for the car so after 5/6 years you break even and want a new car anyway?
Try again.

Note I based the math on living around Detroit and a combination of on and off peak charging at actual DTE edison rates. With 0 free supercharging as that won't be available anyway. (Plus Detroit doesn't have a single Tesla Supercharger so.. well)
 
Last edited:
Wonder how the battery is doing. Very cool.

It's a good question, but if I recall, Tesla batteries have better endurance because they don't charge them to capacity (studies show that charging to 80% will significantly increase the lifespan) and they also cool them using liquid.

So assuming the car gets 250miles per charge, that's 4 charges per 1k miles. 4*300 = 1,200 cycles. The 18650 cells Tesla uses (or used at time this vehicle was made) can reach around 400-500 cycles in normal to-peak charging. That can go over 1000cycles if the charge system, charge amps, temperature, discharge amps, and thresholds (e.g. charge to 80%) are fine tuned. The cells then just suffer from reduced performance.

I only know this stuff because I build my own batteries for projects (drones and such). You can get way more out of them if you don't buy the mass produced stuff.


Depends on the electricity rate. That can vary tremendously depending on location and type (residential vs commercial) as well as if it's offset by solar or not.

For example, that same 300,000 miles charged at the commercial rate (or if you apply for it, the off-peak rate) here in Vegas would be $5,000.
 
Last edited:
The $11K doesn't include electricity. That was $6,900 scheduled maintenance and $3500 to replace the headlights. Electricity is free on their planet.

Twelve days in the shop, new motor, new battery pack...I would have been close to leaving it a burning heap on the side of the road having to miss that much time from work. Fortunately, I doubt my local credit union will spot me a loan for a $100K car, so all good.
 
20,270 in fuel costs.
vs
11,000 dollars in electrical costs
Saves 60,000 dollars
When the car costs $43,000 dollars more.

I would say their math is unbelievably generous. Modern 4 door sedans can pull 37MPG average. At 2.50 a gallon for 87octane on average across the timescale they refer to that is 20,270.
Electricity would cost about 11 grand for the tesla
So you saved about 9 grand ish.
But paid 43grand more for the car so after 5/6 years you break even and want a new car anyway?
Try again.
There's $45,000 subsidy that comes from selling carbon credits to IC engine vehicle makers. So no IC engines, the car costs $45,000 more.
 
Cool, but how much did it make their power bills rise? Was this taken into account on top of the "savings" or were they strictly fuel related?
They used the superchargers, so the electrical costs were paid by Tesla instead of the taxi service due to free supercharging that was primarily used to charge the vehicle. They really didn't have to pay for "fuel". This deal is ending this year though, and it'll never be a thing for the Model 3 or anything that comes after that.

There's $45,000 subsidy that comes from selling carbon credits to IC engine vehicle makers. So no IC engines, the car costs $45,000 more.
LOL where'd you get that number? Tesla doesn't get $45k for each car on carbon credits, that's fucking ridiculous. Go make shit up somewhere else.

Anyways, this article is about a "look mom at what I did" corner case, not anything any regular Tesla buyer will experience.
 
I thought I read somewhere that the "free" superchargers weren't meant for commercial use? If so these guys were pretty blatantly violating the TOS.
 
how much did the government subsidy to tesla cover in that cost?
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this
You would have spent about $30K in fuel, so that brings you up to $70K, and with that many miles, you may need a complete drivetrain swap as well, lets say $20K in maintenance.
So you are at $90K spent and you are driving a car worth probably $10K after all those miles, even though you have a new drivetrain, while the Tesla may still be worth $50K plus.

To be honest, I'd rather be driving a $100K car vs a $40K car that I sunk $60K into, lol.

I don't get $20k in maintenance. My F150 is twenty years old and has 250000 miles on it and I might have spent $5k including oil changes, tires, two water pumps and a throwout bearing. 300000 miles / 17 miles per gallon x $2.50 per gallon = $44,117 in fuel(rarely have I had to pay that much for fuel). I bought it for $18k taxes included so as of now I have still paid less than the cost of the Tesla. Even at $30k for a newer model it would still be less than the cost of the Tesla. Even with a car instead of a truck I know people who go 300k miles without needing a rebuild of anything, if regular maintenance is performed and the vehicle is not abused.
 
Besides the fact these are coal powered cars and batteries are the worst material for the environment you can possibly imagine this is great!!

Hey if the environmentalists would allow full scale nuclear power and hydroelectric, electric cars would actually make sense. Except for the batteries having a worse half-life then plutonium....
 
There is a guy who has taken a 2000 Corvette to 700,000 miles on the original engine and second transmission. Engine and transmission replacement at 300,000 miles is bull, it all comes down to how the car was driven and how well it was maintained. I'm sure if you're aggressively accelerating all the time those electric motors aren't going to fare much better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this
Let's do the math.
Model S w/ 75 kW battery can go ~250 miles. 250/75 = 3.33 miles / kWh
This seems reasonable from the 3.1 to 3.5 numbers I saw on the tesla forums.
Average cost of electricity in the US is $0.12. (.12 / 3.33) = 0.036 $ / mile
They drove 300,000 miles. 300,000 * 0.036 = $10,800

If their electricity is cheaper - say 0.08 (what mine is) - then it would go down to $7,200

So their $10,492 could very well include the electricity.
Didn't read the article did you? Tesla has these things called Super Chargers. They're free to use and they used them.
 
yeah.. using the $70K "savings" at $3 a gallon, they are comparing to a car that only gets 13 mpg
Pretty sure gas in CA is generally a lot more than $3.00/gallon and given that they're driving people in a Model S, I'd assume they were going to buy another luxury car. Maybe a Mercedes, BMW or Audi Sedan. ON the cheap end those are probably at least 60 grand and it's pretty easy to get over 6 figures. Looking at the A7, S class and e Class the city MPG is rated not much over 13mpg and we all know those ratings are generally better than the cars actually get...so if they're fudging the numbers, it's not by much.
 
Back
Top