Tesla Model 3 Owners Vent about Polar Vortex Affecting Cars

kju1

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It was freaking cold out people of course batteries lost charge. I bet you some gas cars didnt start due to dead batteries. As for the door handles...no shit. Mine was frozen also...on a gas guzzler.
 

Ididar

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Admittedly, the door handle design and issue needs to be rectified.
The door handle design is seemingly all the rage in more expensive vehicles. More complicated than it needs to be as far as I'm concerned, but several manufacturers use the whole flush door handle design element now.
 

kju1

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The door handle design is seemingly all the rage in more expensive vehicles. More complicated than it needs to be as far as I'm concerned, but several manufacturers use the whole flush door handle design element now.
IMO its fracking stupid. Way to take something that was easy and intuitive to use and make it obtuse. Some designer or engineer didnt check with their UX person...
 

Ididar

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IMO its fracking stupid. Way to take something that was easy and intuitive to use and make it obtuse. Some designer or engineer didnt check with their UX person...
Yep. Lexus has them these days which pop out electrically. I hope there's a manual override. Nissan has them on the GTR. They also show up on tons of higher end stuff. Gah. It is bad enough opening a regular door in icing conditions but these things make it worse. I can't fault Tesla specifically, though, because this is all the rage with designers.
 

SomeoneElse

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I have problems with my door handles icing over as well. I drive a Nissan Maxima, These problems are not unique to Telsa. The design might not be optimal but ice gets on everything and make it hard to open. This is bitching just to bitch....
 

kju1

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To be clear I was not ragging on Tesla for it. Just the design in general.
 

gunbust3r

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Heck, GT-R's have had that design on the door handles for a while and it seems to have never caused any complaints.
Because people with a $100K 600HP GT-R monster keep it in a garage and away from the snow, muck, and salt.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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I spray my stuff with a silicon based lube and so far so good...no iced up doors or handles
 
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kju1

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Because people with a $100K 600HP GT-R monster keep it in a garage and away from the snow, muck, and salt.
I dont keep my ~$65k vehicle in a garage...because I dont have one to keep it in. Oh and its a truck so theres that too ;p
 

Megaslug

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Pretty sure this issue is lessened a lot if you put it in a garage that has any form of warmth.
Exactly what I came here to post. Last thing I would do if I had to park outside and/or on the street all the time would be to buy a $60K+ car. OK, I lie, I probably wouldn't buy a $60K car period - I DRIVE a car that cost that much new, but I bought it used for less than half that. It's cold and there's been salt and all that crap on the roads so now until Sprig it sits in my garage and I drive my $3K old truck. Know what, in the extreme cold after sitting in the parking lot at work all day, I had to really yank on the door of that truck to get it open because it was partially frozen shut. It was cold and snowy, that shit happens. That shit has ALWAYS happened. I haven't had any battery problems, but overnight the truck sits in my garage, not outside in the cold. But back in those days when I was lucky if the car I had ran for 6 months without a major repair and I had no covered parking - yeah, cold kills battery capacity. Doesn;t matter what battery chemistry. Add to that the oil thickening in the cold and an IC car has a LOT more issues in cold weather. On those single digit days - there was a noticeable difference in my truck idling after startup in neutral vs putting in the clutch - very noticeable, until the transmission lube warmed up.
SO, your all-electric car loses range when it gets below 0 out? The doors get hard to open? Welcome to every car, always.
 
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I love how these pompous pricks call everything they don't like a "flaw".

This is just how the technology works and one of its shortcomings. They should have known this before buying.

Traditional internal combustion engines struggle in the extreme cold too, being more difficult to start, and a lot less fuel efficient until they warm up (and when we are talking -40 degree temperatures, reaching nominal operating temperature range takes a LONG time.)

There is no news here. Just a bunch of whiny crybabies who didn't do their research before buying.

I've always said that whenever you buy anything, especially a large pruchase like a car, you should have researched it to the point that you know more about it than the person selling it to you. If you didn't, it's all on you.

Technical details matter. Learn them.
So true if you didn't know of the effects weather have on EVs before buying one you are a fucking idiot I knew full well when I bought my bolt my range could be cut in half in - 25 Temps and it is precisely the reason Nissan can fuck off with their leaf till its rocking a 60+kw battery pack. It's astounding to me that someone will lay down 60+k on a car without doing due diligence
 
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Because it only uses 18 gauge aluminum wire? ;)
True, there's some cheap-bastardness in the manufacturing that plays into it. :D However, I rarely see home owners using 12ga extension cords for their driveway needs, so I'm willing to bet their cars are getting choked. At least a block heater is a low-draw.
 

Wierdo

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Just turn the beefy EV heater on by cellphone 5-10 minutes prior to leaving and it will melt the ice away. That's another thing that can help.

Having said that, -50f weather is a bit much, I feel for Chicago, having to deal with the polar vortex getting pushed down by the shifting pacific jet stream.
 

Monkey God

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Couple of things here if people aren’t familiar with Teslas... The cars use the battery to keep the battery warm during cold weather. So the issue isn’t the battery getting cold, it’s the amount of energy being used to keep the battery warm. Also if you plug a Model S in to a 110v outlet, this isn’t power enough to offset the amount of energy being used to keep the battery warm. So running extension cords and shit to the car isn’t going to maintain range, unless it’s coming from a 220v outlet. The cars will still lose range even when plug in to 110v during really cold weather.

And sure people should be using dedicated charges and such, however they don’t think about this when traveling and visiting people. During three seasons of the year, a slow 110v charge is fine to keep the car charging. During the winter, not so much... People are figuring this out now.
Do you have a citation for this? Basic math says a Tesla using 110V X 10A = ~1KW continuously to heat the battery and still lose its charge seems unreasonable to me. Just charging a battery causes it to warm up.
 

kju1

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True, there's some cheap-bastardness in the manufacturing that plays into it. :D However, I rarely see home owners using 12ga extension cords for their driveway needs, so I'm willing to bet their cars are getting choked. At least a block heater is a low-draw.
I can virtually guarantee you they arent. 9/10 homeowners dont understand wire gauges and why some are not appropriate for certain applications. Hell I have seen neighbors using inside only extension cords to run things like electric trimmers etc. Add to that that wire gauges are "confusing" for the uninitiated and you have a recipe for disaster. I would bet real money that the average person would tell you that a 14 gauge wire could provide more amps than a 10 gauge.
 
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Ocellaris

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Do you have a citation for this? Basic math says a Tesla using 110V X 10A = ~1KW continuously to heat the battery and still lose its charge seems unreasonable to me. Just charging a battery causes it to warm up.

Now keep in mind a Model 3 battery is 1000 pounds and a Model S battery is 1200 pounds. When you park that battery outside in cold temps with high winds, 1000 watts isn’t actually a lot to keep that much thermal mass warm.

If you park in a garage or use a dedicated charger, this isn’t much of any issue.
 
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raz-0

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Heck, GT-R's have had that design on the door handles for a while and it seems to have never caused any complaints.
GT-Rs are bought by people who love cars. They understand it isn't a do everything design and if they DO use it to do everything, they expect it to be sub-optimal sometimes.

Teslas by and large are bought by people who think of cars as an appliance, and they just bought a $60,000 toaster.
 

/dev/null

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GT-Rs are bought by people who love cars. They understand it isn't a do everything design and if they DO use it to do everything, they expect it to be sub-optimal sometimes.

Teslas by and large are bought by people who think of cars as an appliance, and they just bought a $60,000 toaster.
Pretty much this....

I hear all kinds of non-techie people who want a tesla so they don't have to buy gas. No way they are going to understand battery issues like this.
 
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CombatChrisNC

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Teslas by and large are bought by people who think of cars as an appliance, and they just bought a $60,000 toaster.
Sure, lump the 10's of thousands of people all into the same ignorant group. Yea, that's productive.

There are dumb people in all subsets of the population no matter how you slice it.

No, I don't own one. Maybe in 5 year or so when it's time to get another car.
 

Darunion

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I like the idea of being able to leave my garage on a full 'tank' every morning. Nothing sucks worse than putting off filling it and then it's the worst weather possible and you need gas to get to work. Likely pay much more for electric but the convenience is nice. Would like them to have a bit more years under the belt first before I dive in but I am interested in them. But I also live where a gas station is 15 minutes away and country roads are probably not the idea place for one.
 

kju1

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Pretty much this....

I hear all kinds of non-techie people who want a tesla so they don't have to buy gas. No way they are going to understand battery issues like this.
I laugh at them when they say that and then show them how little a Tesla would actually save you per year in gas. HINT: Its not what the loan payment will be. Even with me driving my big ass 3500HD the cost savings isnt that great - about $100/month which is nowhere near the extra $500 the loan payment would be...

Dont get me wrong I like the Model X and S (having driven both) but I would never buy one as a way to save money. I am not dumb enough to fool myself into thinking that. If I ever get a Tesla it would be because I want it not because of saving money (it wont) or saving the environment (it wont).

People just have no idea of the cost to operate any vehicle let alone an electric one.

I like the idea of being able to leave my garage on a full 'tank' every morning. Nothing sucks worse than putting off filling it and then it's the worst weather possible and you need gas to get to work. Likely pay much more for electric but the convenience is nice. Would like them to have a bit more years under the belt first before I dive in but I am interested in them. But I also live where a gas station is 15 minutes away and country roads are probably not the idea place for one.
You pay less for charging it at home (assuming you dont get free supercharging) than you would if you paid for it at the charging station. About a 3rd less on average if the recent article about the cost being rolled back somewhat is any indication.
 
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Can't say I have much sympathy. Anyone who snow skis knows that the cell phone batteries die very quick when they get cold.
 

/dev/null

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Can't say I have much sympathy. Anyone who snow skis knows that the cell phone batteries die very quick when they get cold.
I think most (non-techie) people are expecing a $70,000 device to be a lot more fool proof & better engineered than a "free"* (with 2 year contract) cell phone.
 
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DocNo

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The door handle design is seemingly all the rage in more expensive vehicles. More complicated than it needs to be as far as I'm concerned, but several manufacturers use the whole flush door handle design element now.
Keyless ignition. Another problem that didn't need to be solved and created theft issues since most car manufacturers are not electronic security experts and didn't think to consult any.

Moving to all touchscreen for controls - no thanks!

Stupid shit for the sake of design alone. Would love to just throttle some of these "designers" with some of this shit.
 

/dev/null

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Keyless ignition. Another problem that didn't need to be solved and created theft issues since most car manufacturers are not electronic security experts and didn't think to consult any.

Moving to all touchscreen for controls - no thanks!

Stupid shit for the sake of design alone. Would love to just throttle some of these "designers" with some of this shit.
Don't even get me started on automatic transmissions on cars under 200hp and costing under $30k....
 

matt167

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This is my DD and kind of an icon of my community because of it and everyone knows me. It's got a 660cc 3cyl HEMI, 5spd trans with 4x4 rated for a little over 1/4 ton load in it's 50"x6'6" bed ( just as capable as S10/ Ranger ).. People don't really get it until I tell them it gets 39 mpg. I put the 14" wheels on it with Nokian snow tires since the 12" golf cart tires are no good in the snow.. I'm working on adding EFI since it's carburated and that should further improve MPG, since the carb is actually still tuned for Japan so it's actually a little rich. I have a JA11 Jimny ( Samurai ) coming from Japan right now. Has the same 660cc engine but EFI and turbocharged. That will probably replace this as a DD as it has more creature comforts and the turbo will make it more enjoyable

These kinds of cars should be legal in the USA as they are in most every other country. But they only become legal once they turn 25 years old

carry.jpg
 

kju1

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This is my DD and kind of an icon of my community because of it and everyone knows me. It's got a 660cc 3cyl HEMI, 5spd trans with 4x4 rated for a little over 1/4 ton load in it's 50"x6'6" bed ( just as capable as S10/ Ranger ).. People don't really get it until I tell them it gets 39 mpg. I put the 14" wheels on it with Nokian snow tires since the 12" golf cart tires are no good in the snow.. I'm working on adding EFI since it's carburated and that should further improve MPG, since the carb is actually still tuned for Japan so it's actually a little rich. I have a JA11 Jimny ( Samurai ) coming from Japan right now. Has the same 660cc engine but EFI and turbocharged. That will probably replace this as a DD as it has more creature comforts and the turbo will make it more enjoyable

These kinds of cars should be legal in the USA as they are in most every other country. But they only become legal once they turn 25 years old

View attachment 139712
I still have my 91 s10. Dont drive it much anymore though. I need to replace some body mounts before its really safe again. Used to get a solid 30+ MPG on the highway with that. It could probably use an engine overhaul by now as well.
 
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We had a power outage during the polar vortex and I watched equipment that has battery backup that should last about 12 - 20 hours drain the batteries about 2 - 3 times faster than it should. But then again when the batteries are well below 0F I expect that to be the case. Fear of winter driving in the Midwest has caused me to be slightly fearful of a fully electric car.



Even inside of a garage, if it isn't heated it was still really damn cold. With wind chill in places below -40F some getting as low as -60 or -70F, -20 through -40F without wind chill. This lasted for over 48 hours. So inside of a garage you would still be looking at well below zero if you didn't have anything in there to heat the garage.
Yup, the cold impact on batteries is the only reason I'm still probably going to get a Plug-In Hybrid (of the "Range Extended EV" Variety) instead of pure electric on my next car.

It bottomed out at -30 during the polar vortex here, that's going to have a . . . dramatic impact on battery life, even if it's parked in a garage a home. Especially since there isn't a garage at work.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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Tesla's are not the only cars that have trouble when the temps dip... the problem with lithium batteries is the same as with any other. as the temp drops, the available (usable) capacity declines rapidly... if you are expecting your tesla to run well at -30F without being heated up by a 240V charger...yeah, good luck...
 
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I think most (non-techie) people are expecing a $70,000 device to be a lot more fool proof & better engineered than a "free"* (with 2 year contract) cell phone.
You can't engineer out basic physics. When you convert energy to heat its expensive, a fucking hair dryer pulls more wattage than my car charging on a 120v outlet. The only way for Tesla to mitigate battery drain for the heater is to overprovision on battery capacity and only use that extra space for the heater. Electric motors are incredibly efficiency so there isn't much waste heat you can harvest to help heat the car.
 

/dev/null

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You can't engineer out basic physics. When you convert energy to heat its expensive, a fucking hair dryer pulls more wattage than my car charging on a 120v outlet. The only way for Tesla to mitigate battery drain for the heater is to overprovision on battery capacity and only use that extra space for the heater. Electric motors are incredibly efficiency so there isn't much waste heat you can harvest to help heat the car.
How about heating coils around the battery?

With that being said, you have to realize that the average person has the reading comprehension of a 5th grader. Some of those people make enough money to buy a Tesla. They are still going to expect the issue to be "solved"
 
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How about heating coils around the battery?

With that being said, you have to realize that the average person has the reading comprehension of a 5th grader. Some of those people make enough money to buy a Tesla. They are still going to expect the issue to be "solved"
I am pretty sure both Tesla and gm have their own battery conditioning systems that are a little more advanced than that. Oh and do you think heating coils are free energy? We are right back to the converting energy to heat problem. This is not a solvable problem with current technology outside of what I described. On my way to the office today it's around 40 degrees outside and with the defroster going I will get 188 miles instead of 240 on a charge. With no AC/Heat going I have gotten up to 280-300 miles with my driving patterns.
 

kju1

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How about heating coils around the battery?

With that being said, you have to realize that the average person has the reading comprehension of a 5th grader. Some of those people make enough money to buy a Tesla. They are still going to expect the issue to be "solved"
Physics and chemistry currently states there is no solution. The answer is better battery tech that is not yet invented.
 

Monkey God

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[/MEDIA]

Now keep in mind a Model 3 battery is 1000 pounds and a Model S battery is 1200 pounds. When you park that battery outside in cold temps with high winds, 1000 watts isn’t actually a lot to keep that much thermal mass warm.

If you park in a garage or use a dedicated charger, this isn’t much of any issue.
Weird - I use the built-in block heater on my 6.7L cummins last night (-2 deg F) and just 6-7 Amps out of a 110V outlet had enough power to keep the engine coolant in that monster block over 100F. This is outside, in the snow and cold and wind. I dont buy it.

People are making mountains of out molehills to justify shitting on something.
 
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Weird - I use the built-in block heater on my 6.7L cummins last night (-2 deg F) and just 6-7 Amps out of a 110V outlet had enough power to keep the engine coolant in that monster block over 100F. This is outside, in the snow and cold and wind. I dont buy it.

People are making mountains of out molehills to justify shitting on something.
Your coolant isn't explosive. Batteries are, so it's a tad more than a molehill.
 
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