Tesla Model 3 Outsells BMW and Mercedes Models

Wierdo

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 2, 2011
Messages
1,817
Why aren't you looking at the Bolt?

Oh yeah that's right, we did like the Bolt but the seats were pretty cramped and its system wasn't as integrated as the Model 3 for planning long trips, a big selling feature in our case**.

I think I just forgot about it because it was kinda in a tough niche between the more affordable Leaf and the entry level luxury sedan segment - while packaged as an economy hatchback. It's a good car though I agree.

The Nissan Leaf was more comfortable to ride in by comparison to the Bolt, but for range the Bolt is a better option.

At around $37.5k I'd say it could top the Leaf unless you're set on paying closer to $30k or care more about seat comfort than range on a trip.

Worth test driving both for sure.

** have to pull out third party apps and spend time planning trips and figure out which chargers to go to etc, and then hope they are well maintained by various entities running them, and the charging speed was something like a third so half an hour to top off would end up being one and a half. On the model 3 you just tell it where you wanna go in the dash itself and it handles all that, planning the trip, listing the chargers and how long it would take etc, saving half an hr of fiddling with various apps.
 
Last edited:

wizzi01

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
3,725
No - I would argue that it wasn't. Design flaws typically aren't fixed once a vehicle is sold. A QC error like forgetting brake pads while embarrassing can - and was fixed.

Tesla isn't going to fix the fact that the Model 3 has pieces of trim stuck together with double sided tape. They aren't going to fix massive panel gaps, etc.

2 sided tape is used to hold on trim pieces all the time. We get you hate Tesla, but at least try to search through your bias.
 

Biznatch

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
2,224
Instead you can look forward to replacing the battery, electric motors, cooling system, main control unit, and the giant touch screen that every feature is depedent on for control.

Funny that you mention transmission flushes, filters, plugs, and belts. These are all typically items covered under the standard warranty period. Most manufacturers include the first three oil changes / services now as well.

Sure - When your electric motors fail on the Model 3 (Which they will) those will be covered under warranty - But the point is that all the things you mentioned on the ICE vehicle are covered under warranty as well.

The only point that matters here however is that at least on the ICE vehicle doing those things is far cheaper then replacing the stuff on the Model 3 out of warranty. A Tesla out of warranty will be a giant money pit - Most ICE vehicles on the other hand will be FAR cheaper to maintain in the long run once they are out of warranty compared to the Tesla.


Any sources to back up those facts on failing parts on the tesla? Because there are some model S out with a few 100k miles, which still have around 90% battery life and still on stock motors. Plus batteries/motors are covered under warranty for 8 years, unlimited miles. Show me an ICE with comparable warranty.... You don't think an ICE will be a money pit after warranty? Ever owned an Audi and tried to get repairs after it expires? That's a money pit. Hell I had to replace the engine on my stock subie at 140k miles, which cost half the value of the car at the time..... So all your confused hate about tesla applies to pretty much any mass produced car in that price range.....

And items like fluids/oils are NOT typically part of the manufacturers warranty. That's considered maintenance, and typically requires a separate maintenance plan from the dealership to be covered. Some manufacturers have been adding maintenance plans to new cars (bmw i believe), but it's definitely not part of the standard warranty.
 

Accursed

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
498
Instead you can look forward to replacing the battery, electric motors, cooling system, main control unit, and the giant touch screen that every feature is depedent on for control.

Funny that you mention transmission flushes, filters, plugs, and belts. These are all typically items covered under the standard warranty period. Most manufacturers include the first three oil changes / services now as well.

Sure - When your electric motors fail on the Model 3 (Which they will) those will be covered under warranty - But the point is that all the things you mentioned on the ICE vehicle are covered under warranty as well.

The only point that matters here however is that at least on the ICE vehicle doing those things is far cheaper then replacing the stuff on the Model 3 out of warranty. A Tesla out of warranty will be a giant money pit - Most ICE vehicles on the other hand will be FAR cheaper to maintain in the long run once they are out of warranty compared to the Tesla.

Ohh please, Like I haven't had ICE cars before. Here are my experiences and costs. I know exactly what it's like to buy performance cars that want full Moble-1 synthetic oil every 3k, so fist 3 "Free" oil changes would last 9k, after that it's $100-120 a pop. Then all wheel drive Getrag transmissions that need $1k-1.2k transmission flushes every 30k (but they recommend every 10k), and many more examples.

But I'm past that for the moment, I would love to hear your experiences on replacing motors and their related costs. How often did your electric car need a cooling flush? Did your touch screen go out often?

But it's my guess that you're just speculating. Fears of the EV boogie man.
 

Unter Dog

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
136
modernized controls, they're more comfortable with tablets and phones, bomber cockpit knobs are for grandpa lol

You need to look at tablets and phones to use them well. Touchscreens may be easier to use when you are parked, but tactile buttons and knobs are easier to use and still look at the road. Since they already have the screen there, it is probably a cost reduction to just make it bigger and not include buttons.

I am not a Tesla hater and want them to succeed, but am also not afraid to criticize them for things i think are poor design choices.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
618
Chiming in as an S owner who just sold it last week to take delivery of a 3 next week.

No issues in 120k miles other than tires. In the beginning there were a couple of quirks that were quickly fixed. My wife has a 2017 Honda CR-V. It has already had 2 recalls, tons of panel gaps, and oil consumption/fuel dilution issues.

I'm happy with sticking to Tesla from here on out, but I will say the 3 has had it's fair share of issues so far but no more or less of a headache than the CR-V.
 

SomeoneElse

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
1,941
I don't give a shit about GM. I would have been fine if they never received government funding.

What exactly does this have to do with the discussion?
You are chastising a company for taking government funds.............GM received a much larger amount. So your you argument against them is extremely weak, just point that out to you to think about.
 

travisty

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
815
https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model...la-model-3-monthly-update-for-april-2018.html

As more and more idiots receive their Model 3 and realize the thing won't work as a daily driver the car sales will slow down.

You don't see these quality issues on the cheapest cars available from any other manufacturer, and IMO the resale value on these things will be horrid given that you'd be crazy to own one out of warranty.

Many of the listed issues have already been addressed in the continual updates.

Also the fist 1k Model 3s (of which Edmunds got theirs) did have quality issues. My Model 3 was somewhere between 8k-10k and it's an amazing ride. They've made a lot of improvements and the suspension is smooth (not air smooth though)

The main issue now is Android key functionality losing connection. IPhones work fine.
I've worked around it by putting my card key in a sleeve in the back of my phone.
 

Accursed

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
498
You need to look at tablets and phones to use them well. Touchscreens may be easier to use when you are parked, but tactile buttons and knobs are easier to use and still look at the road. Since they already have the screen there, it is probably a cost reduction to just make it bigger and not include buttons.

I am not a Tesla hater and want them to succeed, but am also not afraid to criticize them for things i think are poor design choices.

The car isn't without it faults but things like volume and other commonly accessed controls are done via the steering wheel buttons/scroll wheel or voice commands. Once you get used to it it's actually pretty neat. Still getting used to the AC controls.
 

Shodin10k

Gawd
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
619
I picked up my Model 3 this past monday. Yea the interior isn't the best, and everything is done through the steering wheel or the touch screen which isn't to much of a problem

But with my job and my wifes job that pays for my milage, the car just pays for itself. Free car over ten years is pretty nice.
 

Wierdo

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 2, 2011
Messages
1,817
I picked up my Model 3 this past monday. Yea the interior isn't the best, and everything is done through the steering wheel or the touch screen which isn't to much of a problem

But with my job and my wifes job that pays for my milage, the car just pays for itself. Free car over ten years is pretty nice.

Yeah same for us, not as drastic but still nice, something like $1000/year saved from charging at home according to our spreadsheet, but we don't drive as much as you guys do, mostly just commuting between jobs and some weekend trips.
 

travisty

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
815
The car isn't without it faults but things like volume and other commonly accessed controls are done via the steering wheel buttons/scroll wheel or voice commands. Once you get used to it it's actually pretty neat. Still getting used to the AC controls.

I'm beginning to wonder if people see the single screen and are scared by the change. Change in general to some can be disconcerting and anything not the status quo should be avoided.

The AC did take some playing around with to get it just right. If you have the defrost toggled and you want the air going to your face the center point is much lower i've found.
 

Shodin10k

Gawd
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
619
Yeah same for us, not as drastic but still nice, something like $1000/year saved from charging at home according to our spreadsheet, but we don't drive as much as you guys do, mostly just commuting between jobs and some weekend trips.

Yea combined we get ~$400 a month from work to pay for gas + maintenance, that gets turned around and goes to the car payment now.
 

Mchart

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
5,446
Any sources to back up those facts on failing parts on the tesla? Because there are some model S out with a few 100k miles, which still have around 90% battery life and still on stock motors. Plus batteries/motors are covered under warranty for 8 years, unlimited miles. Show me an ICE with comparable warranty.... You don't think an ICE will be a money pit after warranty? Ever owned an Audi and tried to get repairs after it expires? That's a money pit. Hell I had to replace the engine on my stock subie at 140k miles, which cost half the value of the car at the time..... So all your confused hate about tesla applies to pretty much any mass produced car in that price range.....

And items like fluids/oils are NOT typically part of the manufacturers warranty. That's considered maintenance, and typically requires a separate maintenance plan from the dealership to be covered. Some manufacturers have been adding maintenance plans to new cars (bmw i believe), but it's definitely not part of the standard warranty.

No - I won't own an Audi because of that reason.

My Syclone on the other hand is fine, along with my last gen LS3 Corvette. I purposely avoid cars that are overly sophisticated.

Plus, no one buys an Audi thinking it will be a reliable machine.

You don't think you'd need to replace the batteries and/or motors on the Tesla at 140k miles?

My sources? Do a google search. There are numerous outlets like Edmunds, etc. that are showing that their Tesla's hitting 100k miles have had MULTIPLE replacements of the motors. Have fun operating that vehicle outside the warranty period.

Finally - Sorry you bought a Subaru and expected it to last. Again, that is not a brand you buy with the expectations that the powertrain will last. The EJ motor in particular is prolific for failing.
 
Last edited:

opfreak

Gawd
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
766
Its the fact that they are the first true EV car maker that has seem some success. I for one think Telsa is a great company. They have a bad track record but my take is that it really is FORCING all other auto makers to adjust.....I welcome that any day. They have to change or they will get left behind.
Don't think the all other companies aren't trying to put them out of business to remain relevant. Telsa pushes the innovation in the auto industry and everyone hates them for it. I'm not saying they are the greatest thing since sliced bread but I want the company to succeed because its good to see the change that has been needed for a few decades now.

What innovation?
 

DuronBurgerMan

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
1,340
Why aren't you looking at the Bolt?

Don't know about that dude, but for me the Bolt is slooooooooow. At least the Model 3 has a 0-60 of around 5 seconds and a quarter mile of ~13 seconds. For reference, my '15 Mustang GT only pulls 4.3 and 12.7, respectively. So a Model 3 is not far off from a Mustang in straight line performance. A Model S will beat it, stock vs stock. The fancy Model S P100D is comparable to a Hellcat.

So Tesla gives you performance chops and EV. Not just boring econobox.

Not trying to talk up the EVs, mind you. I like 'em, but I don't like 'em @ $40k upwards to $100k. For that, I'll stick with my gas guzzler. But if Tesla got that similar performance down to a comparable price... I'd look.
 

bbqrooster

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 14, 2011
Messages
207
I am one of the 500000 people who put down $1000 to get into the Model 3 queue. I think I am at around 140K'ish. As I read more and more about the Model 3, I don't think it is wise to get one. My wife is enameled by Testa. So to her wishes, we went to a Tesla showroom to look at it before the final decision.

The Tesla models on the floor looked perfect. You could not test drive the Model 3, which I knew beforehand. The sales guy tried to upsell me the Model S. When we were looking at the Model S, we encountered a previous Model S owner who's in there with his friend. What a load of complaint he dumped on us. He said his Model S (sold now and bought an Audi) workmanship was ridiculous. A 6 figure car should not have these problems. The gap varied all over the place. The hood and the front of the car did not line up. Tesla told him that to line up the hood with the front of the car, the front of the car would be off. For the first 6 months, he had to bring the car back to Tesla for repair 8 times. Oh, the car leaked water when it rained. The biggest complaint was that Tesla would not allow him to see and test drive his car when he went in to take delivery. They just kept telling him the car was perfect, no need to test drive. He only saw the car after writing the check. By that time, it's too late. He already took delivery. The problems started immediately when he drove the car home. So for all of you who are planning to buy a Tesla, please do not let Tesla do this to you. Insist on seeing the car before pulling out the checkbook.

For me, my wife and I went out the door real fast afterward.
 

kju1

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 27, 2002
Messages
3,460
No - I won't own an Audi because of that reason.

My Syclone on the other hand is fine, along with my last gen LS3 Corvette. I purposely avoid cars that are overly sophisticated.

Plus, no one buys an Audi thinking it will be a reliable machine.

You don't think you'd need to replace the batteries and/or motors on the Tesla at 140k miles?

My sources? Do a google search. There are numerous outlets like Edmunds, etc. that are showing that their Tesla's hitting 100k miles have had MULTIPLE replacements of the motors. Have fun operating that vehicle outside the warranty period.

Finally - Sorry you bought a Subaru and expected it to last. Again, that is not a brand you buy with the expectations that the powertrain will last. The EJ motor in particular is prolific for failing.

No one buys an Audi thinking it will be a reliable machine? WTF are you smoking? https://www.consumerreports.org/car...ion/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/ #4.

That LS3 engine is arguably just as complicated, if not more so, than the electric motors in the Tesla.
 

Wierdo

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 2, 2011
Messages
1,817
For me, my wife and I went out the door real fast afterward.

We had a pretty good experience in our case, the staff was helpful and knowledgeable, answered all of our questions and let us try all the models on the floor, still waiting for them to have a Model 3 to test drive though as they're currently pretty much selling every unit they produce.

Some things to keep in mind:
- Tesla consumer satisfaction rating is the highest in the auto market according to Consumer Report:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...tion/car-brands-ranked-by-owner-satisfaction/

Rated number one at 90 (percent?) with Porche in second at 85 and Genesis at 81 in third place. Chrysler's strangely in fourth place at 78 so go figure.

So the customers seem to be quite happy with the product overall.

- There's going to be exceptions like any other company, but If you find any issues in the car they are usually really good at fixing them, sometimes they even call you saying the car's system notified them of a potential issue picked up by the sensors and asking if you could schedule a visit to look at it before it becomes a problem.
- Something like 9 out of 10 issues can be resolved without lifting the vehicle, so in those cases they usually come to your home and fix it in your garage if they can't do it over the air, you don't have to wait in the shop.
- If a shop visit is required, they usually loan you a decked out Tesla vehicle as a loaner while they work on your car, that way you wouldn't be stuck without a car.

I'm sure sometimes things don't work out like with any company, but they got a pretty cool system going for them at the moment, and I've heard allot of praise from a few owners despite some minor issues they initially encountered that were resolved.
 
Last edited:

jcollett69

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
139
Even if we forget the issues Tesla is facing, if they produce at their highest projection of 5000 Model 3s per week, the 450,000 vehicle wait list could not be fulfilled for 90 weeks! Looking from when this car was first announced, it would be like a 4 year old model car. Putting oneself on the wait list now would mean no delivery til at least 2020. Many car companies promise EVs by then. There will be A LOT of competition by then and it will be interesting to re-visit this market share segment at that time.
I live in So Cal and have yet to see a Model 3. I regularly see all sorts of cars out here so I've been rather surprised myself.
 

Wierdo

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 2, 2011
Messages
1,817
Even if we forget the issues Tesla is facing, if they produce at their highest projection of 5000 Model 3s per week, the 450,000 vehicle wait list could not be fulfilled for 90 weeks! Looking from when this car was first announced, it would be like a 4 year old model car. Putting oneself on the wait list now would mean no delivery til at least 2020. Many car companies promise EVs by then. There will be A LOT of competition by then and it will be interesting to re-visit this market share segment at that time.
I live in So Cal and have yet to see a Model 3. I regularly see all sorts of cars out here so I've been rather surprised myself.

I live in SoCal now as well, we have two neighbors with Model 3s in our area, so it's starting to get there. I think the biggest concentrations of EVs are in Los Angeles and San Fransisco though.

Tesla doesn't do model years, on the software side all the cars stay up to date with over the air updates, it's a bit different from the norm where every year a model gets a slight interface touch-up that's dependent on actual hardware changes.

So on the software side the car just improves with time in terms of features. On the hardware side the interface doesn't change, everything is through the tablet and steering wheel and that's about it.

Parts under the "hood" might get incremental refinements, but since they don't make drastic changes to the platform for years, any improved parts - such as softer suspension - can be retrofitted should the need arise.
 
Last edited:
Top