Tesla Launches $35,000 Standard Model 3

refraxion

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
8,422
I've driven a tesla and actually love autopilot. Frees me to text and drive lmao.

But seriously I love autopilot. Not a fan if regen braking on highest settings, too rough.

I am probably going to get a model 3 performance awd this or next year not sure. Waiting to see how Tesla plans to handle current defects in craftsmanship.

I've owned sports cars, a 640whp 2004 wrx STI, and others. Big power is nice but in all honesty short of paying track fees and a weekend spent at the racetrack big power gets you lowered reliability and longevity. More maintenance and more expense. I'm approaching 38 and have no desire for a 900whp v8 blown Corvette or any of that nonsense. Tesla electric torque is amazing for getting up over and around douches on the highway. That's all I desire.
This right here. If I can get up over and around douchebag truck drivers where I live, that is all I care about. I'm too old for rice rockets and the like.
 

Wierdo

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 2, 2011
Messages
1,782
Their numbers are completely wrong for me, say I'll save 65%.
Yet when I use actual number based on what I pay today for Gas and electricity, I would actually LOSE about 15% by switching to electric.

Their either using much higher gas prices, much lower electric prices, or both.
(FYI: They treat California as all the same price, even though the price for electricity and gas can vary significantly from city to city.
That's true, it's a general estimate.

It does sound like you're getting screwed down there on power generation costs though. Usually it's either cheap gas and electricity or expensive for both, but there are exceptions.

Back in WV I was paying (iirc) $0.08 vs $2.50, and down here in Cali it's $0.24 vs $3.50 around now.

Model 3 is estimated to use roughly 27 KwH for 100 miles based on source below:
https://www.corporatemonkeycpa.com/2017/12/09/how-to-calculate-your-ev-cost-per-mile/?cn-reloaded=1

The base model with single motor is probably a bit more efficient but lets go with that figure.

So for 100 miles it would be:

WV:
EV $0.08 * 27 = $2.16
Hybrid $2.50 * 100 miles / 35 mpg = $7.14

CA:
EV $0.24 * 27 = $6.48
Hybrid $3.50 * 100 miles / 35 mpg = $10

In your case it sounds like you have a decently efficient vehicle, don't travel as much, and your electric rates are pretty high:
EV 0.28 * 27 = 7.56
Hybrid $3.03 * 100 miles / 35 mpg = $8.65

So if you travel, say, 2000 miles a month, then that would add up to $100/month in WV and $70/month CA, in your case it would only be around $20. So if we go with 10 years of vehicle ownership, then fuel savings would translate to $12000 in WV, $8400 in CA, and only around $2400 in your scenario.

So unless the other benefits - safety, performance, features, maintenance etc - don't add up to something worth paying for, then it may not make sense in your case yeah.

For us it's just a night and day experience, so I'm sure in a few years the technology will catch on once people start test driving them and more models are available on the market, it's hard to get back to an ICE after getting used to one of these.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
220 miles of range
.

Nope. Why the F would I ever buy something that limited in range for that much money when I can get a car with more features and a 350+ mile range with 5 minute refueling stops, vs hours? Again I think EV's are super neat, but until their range and charge time justify the added costs, they are novelties for those with money to burn or who don't actually drive very much.
 

travisty

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
815
I have yet to encounter a car with satisfactory automatic windshield wipers. Half the time I actually leave the windshield wipers off when at speed, Rain-X makes the water roll right off.
When i first gor the Tesla the auto wiper was not nearly as good as it is now after a few over-the-air updates

You can also tap the button at the end of the left stalk to have the wipers wipe once.
 

travisty

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
815
<good stuff>
Good post but save your breath. I've already tried to show Nutzo that he can save money by installing solar in CA and how it's cheaper to drive an EV even with expensive electricity.

At this point all he want's to do is QQ

Until he wants to face reality it's best to just let him whine like a child
 

Zarathustra[H]

Official Forum Curmudgeon
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
29,613
I think Tesla is thinking future though not past. Do not need a tactile button if the car self drives 100%.

Well that's just it. While I do want an electric vehicle, I don't want a self driving car any more than I would like to have a chauffeur. Not now, not ever. Why do the two have to go hand in hand? I want a car that's just like my mid 90's era Volvo's. Staid, boring, practical, but electrical. I'd buy that.

I don't want an alien spaceship looking thing, with creative LED lighting and self driving technology. Hard pass on that.

I don't now and will never trust AI. It is too much of a black box. Even those who make it usually can't explain how it arrives at a conclusion. If I don't understand something, I don't trust it. I insist on being in complete personal control of my vehicle, and will not cede control to any AI, no matter how advanced.

Especially since the a self driving systems shorten range due to using electricity.

I do really want an electric vehicle though.
 
Last edited:

Dayaks

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
7,676
That's true, it's a general estimate.

It does sound like you're getting screwed down there on power generation costs though. Usually it's either cheap gas and electricity or expensive for both, but there are exceptions.

Back in WV I was paying (iirc) $0.08 vs $2.50, and down here in Cali it's $0.24 vs $3.50 around now.

Model 3 is estimated to use roughly 27 KwH for 100 miles based on source below:
https://www.corporatemonkeycpa.com/2017/12/09/how-to-calculate-your-ev-cost-per-mile/?cn-reloaded=1

The base model with single motor is probably a bit more efficient but lets go with that figure.

So for 100 miles it would be:

WV:
EV $0.08 * 27 = $2.16
Hybrid $2.50 * 100 miles / 35 mpg = $7.14

CA:
EV $0.24 * 27 = $6.48
Hybrid $3.50 * 100 miles / 35 mpg = $10

In your case it sounds like you have a decently efficient vehicle, don't travel as much, and your electric rates are pretty high:
EV 0.28 * 27 = 7.56
Hybrid $3.03 * 100 miles / 35 mpg = $8.65

So if you travel, say, 2000 miles a month, then that would add up to $100/month in WV and $70/month CA, in your case it would only be around $20. So if we go with 10 years of vehicle ownership, then fuel savings would translate to $12000 in WV, $8400 in CA, and only around $2400 in your scenario.

So unless the other benefits - safety, performance, features, maintenance etc - don't add up to something worth paying for, then it may not make sense in your case yeah.

For us it's just a night and day experience, so I'm sure in a few years the technology will catch on once people start test driving them and more models are available on the market, it's hard to get back to an ICE after getting used to one of these.
Ten years of ownership / 240k miles is a weird metric?

You’re missing cold weather compensation (car sitting in cold weather using power just to keep the batteries warm and the much larger impact of cold weather on efficiency) and a 20% loss when charging (32.4kwh from the wall for 27kwh useable). Don’t forget your range /efficiency decreases over time.

This thread the guy mentions he observed the car using 7kwh overnight just keeping the battery warm.... https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/preheating-battery-in-cold-weather-use.115282/

I am an EE that focused on power electronics/automation. I LOVE eletric motors. I do not think batteries make sense for an all electric application yet and that this is “green” is not true.
 
Last edited:

Liver

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
4,591
Yeah, people are super bad at operating touch screens without looking at them but I guess if the Tesla lovers here are willing to pretend otherwise it's not worth arguing over.
I’ve had my Model S since 2015. I’m 45 now and I love the car. In cold weather I get less miles for sure, but its not that much to actually worry. I’m in east Texas, so I’m not getting the winters that the northern guys see, but we still have days sub 30s, and that is all I can personally comment on.

As far as the touch screen goes. I set my temp and my music when I get in the car, and I don’t really interact with it after that. For the first couple to three days (in 2015) it was like “wow, look at this screen!” Then you get over it and realize you are still driving. Any new car will take a a few days getting used to, despite the layout. After that, its good.

I understand how some people think the interior is cheap. I can see that. I do like that it isn’t so packed in there with useless amenities. I mean, I really don’t need an analog clock made out of wood in the middle of the dash.

Just like ANYTHING in life. It’ll work for some people and it wont for others. I’m very thankful I can afford one, and that we all have awesome choices.
 

Zarathustra[H]

Official Forum Curmudgeon
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
29,613
That's true, it's a general estimate.

It does sound like you're getting screwed down there on power generation costs though. Usually it's either cheap gas and electricity or expensive for both, but there are exceptions.

Back in WV I was paying (iirc) $0.08 vs $2.50, and down here in Cali it's $0.24 vs $3.50 around now.

Model 3 is estimated to use roughly 27 KwH for 100 miles based on source below:
https://www.corporatemonkeycpa.com/2017/12/09/how-to-calculate-your-ev-cost-per-mile/?cn-reloaded=1

The base model with single motor is probably a bit more efficient but lets go with that figure.

So for 100 miles it would be:

WV:
EV $0.08 * 27 = $2.16
Hybrid $2.50 * 100 miles / 35 mpg = $7.14

CA:
EV $0.24 * 27 = $6.48
Hybrid $3.50 * 100 miles / 35 mpg = $10

In your case it sounds like you have a decently efficient vehicle, don't travel as much, and your electric rates are pretty high:
EV 0.28 * 27 = 7.56
Hybrid $3.03 * 100 miles / 35 mpg = $8.65

So if you travel, say, 2000 miles a month, then that would add up to $100/month in WV and $70/month CA, in your case it would only be around $20. So if we go with 10 years of vehicle ownership, then fuel savings would translate to $12000 in WV, $8400 in CA, and only around $2400 in your scenario.

So unless the other benefits - safety, performance, features, maintenance etc - don't add up to something worth paying for, then it may not make sense in your case yeah.

For us it's just a night and day experience, so I'm sure in a few years the technology will catch on once people start test driving them and more models are available on the market, it's hard to get back to an ICE after getting used to one of these.

Last time I ran the numbers on a Model S (this was probably a year ago) I was trying to see if the added cost of a 3 year old Model S running on relatively expensive Massachusetts power (~$0.20 per KWH once all generation, transmission and fees have been added up) would pay for itself.

I structured it as a NPV calculation with an internal rate of return equal to what I might get from a used auto loan (I think I used about 2.5%). I did a comparison to several other luxury and near luxury vehicles in its size class, including both conventional and plug in hybrid vehicles.

My conclusion was that no, it didn't even come close to making sense at current gas and electric costs. If - however - gas prices were to start going up, that could change in a hurry.

In the end, buying a Tesla is not a financial decision. It can make lots of sense for other reasons (including wanting to lower ones carbon footprint, or wanting to portray an image as such) but people trying to justify their expensive Tesla purchases based on cost are deluding themselves.
 

NKD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
7,807
Last time I ran the numbers on a Model S (this was probably a year ago) I was trying to see if the added cost of a 3 year old Model S running on relatively expensive Massachusetts power (~$0.20 per KWH once all generation, transmission and fees have been added up) would pay for itself.

I structured it as a NPV calculation with an internal rate of return equal to what I might get from a used auto loan (I think I used about 2.5%). I did a comparison to several other luxury and near luxury vehicles in its size class, including both conventional and plug in hybrid vehicles.

My conclusion was that no, it didn't even come close to making sense at current gas and electric costs. If - however - gas prices were to start going up, that could change in a hurry.

In the end, buying a Tesla is not a financial decision. It can make lots of sense for other reasons (including wanting to lower ones carbon footprint, or wanting to portray an image as such) but people trying to justify their expensive Tesla purchases based on cost are deluding themselves.
You proved it doesn’t work for you. But you say everyone is delusional for buying one is not accurate. Not all states have same rate for ev. Also varies by company.
 

nutzo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
7,380
In your case it sounds like you have a decently efficient vehicle, don't travel as much, and your electric rates are pretty high:
EV 0.28 * 27 = 7.56
Hybrid $3.03 * 100 miles / 35 mpg = $8.65

So if you travel, say, 2000 miles a month, then that would add up to $100/month in WV and $70/month CA, in your case it would only be around $20. So if we go with 10 years of vehicle ownership, then fuel savings would translate to $12000 in WV, $8400 in CA, and only around $2400 in your scenario.
During the hottest summer months, I might end up paying $.34/KWH for the extra electricity so then my electric cost would be even higher.

As for saving, I only drive around 6,000 miles a year due to a short commute.
That comes out to 6,000/35mpg*$3.05 = $522 for gas.

As for your 10 year $2,400 savings, that assumed I was driving 2,000 mile a month.
Since I only drive 6,000 a year, that 10 year saving would be $600. Not even enough to pay to install a charger in the garage.

Besides, I'll never buy a car that doesn't come with a spare tire, or at least have a place to put one as an option.
I have yet to see any electric car that comes with a spare tire.

I'll consider an electric car when they build one that can charge in 5 minutes, with a 600 mile range, has a spare tire, and costs about the same as an ICE or hybrid.
 

nutzo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
7,380
Good post but save your breath. I've already tried to show Nutzo that he can save money by installing solar in CA and how it's cheaper to drive an EV even with expensive electricity.

At this point all he want's to do is QQ

Until he wants to face reality it's best to just let him whine like a child
And I tried to show you the reality that what might save some people money doesn't work for other people.

For me, insulation, new windows, led lights, efficient appliances, etc. was a more cost efficient way of saving money than solar panels.

Same with my choice of a car. My 10 years costs of a hybrid is less than my 10 year costs of an electric.
Plus I don't have to bother with the limited range or other issues with electric cars.

Luckily we still have a choice in this country, a choice to buy what works best for each person, whatever their reasons.
 

Wierdo

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 2, 2011
Messages
1,782
Wasn't sure where to put this, but this just came out, interesting stuff:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-v3-supercharging
V3 is a completely new architecture for Supercharging. A new 1MW power cabinet with a similar design to our utility-scale products supports peak rates of up to 250kW per car. At this rate, a Model 3 Long Range operating at peak efficiency can recover up to 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes and charge at rates of up to 1,000 miles per hour
We anticipate the typical charging time at a V3 Supercharger will drop to around 15 minutes.
We’re launching V3 Supercharging for Model 3, our highest volume vehicle, and we’ll continue to expand access as we review and assess the results of millions of charging events. We will increase Model S and X charging speeds via software updates in the coming months. V3 Supercharging will roll out to the wider fleet in an over the air firmware update to all owners in Q2 as more V3 Superchargers come online. Our first non-beta V3 Supercharger site will break ground next month
They just rolled out the first v3 superchargers today in California (@8:00pm). Nice!
 
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