Tesla Employee Writes of Low Wages, Poor Morale

[Megalith]

In this week’s episode of “I work for a famous tech company, but it’s not as great as it sounds,” a Tesla production worker has sounded off on the injury-prone working conditions of its plants and how the company is paying wages that are not consistent with industry averages. When I think of Tesla, I picture a company whose practices are on the cutting edge, so the former complaint is particularly peculiar to me—was none of that forward thinking applied toward minimizing liability? Musk has already claimed that this is all a bunch of crock, while others are suggesting that the disgruntled employee doesn’t even exist. Bloomberg, however, managed to get Mr. Moran on the phone, who reveals that he is being supported by the United Automobile Workers labor union…

A few months ago, six out of eight people in my work team were out on medical leave at the same time due to various work-related injuries. I hear that ergonomics concerns in other departments are even more severe. Worst of all, I hear coworkers quietly say that they are hurting but they are too afraid to report it for fear of being labeled as a complainer or bad worker by management. Ironically, many of my coworkers who have been saying they are fed up with the long hours at the plant also rely on the overtime to survive financially. Although the cost of living in the Bay Area is among the highest in the nation, pay at Tesla is near the lowest in the automotive industry.

 

[Ducman69]

The UAW is full of crap, and that type of bully mafia tactics to prevent normal people from applying for and getting jobs is nonsense. They are one of the primary reasons for the failure of domestic vehicle manufacture, producing low quality work at exorbitant wages, with low efficiency and accountability for their work, creating a culture of poor work ethic. Remember, these were the guys busted for smoking weed in the work parking lot on their lunch break.

One of the hurdles we will face in bringing back manufacturing to the US is to eliminate these criminal enterprises that leach off of the American people and businesses, and bring back regular employment opportunities with right-to-work laws.

It is ridiculous that we allow these unions to picket, bully, and physically harm others attempting to compete for their jobs, and we need to get back to promoting people based on their work ethic and skillset and not just who they are friends with and who has been there the longest.

The second biggest problem we have to face is the dealer union, which is preventing vehicle manufacturers from selling their vehicles directly to the customer, removing an unnecessary middle-man, or at least allowing the manf. to partner with non-dealer businesses to resell their vehicles if they choose. They are also the group responsible for increasing taxes paid on private car sales and removing the ability to use the tax credit of a private car sale towards a new car purchased within a reasonable period of time, because that competed with their profits in used car sales.

For example, there's no reason that with minimal overhead, you couldn't shop on Amazon for a vehicle and have it white-glove delivered to your door with zero miles on it loaded off the truck straight from the factory, and pre-approved financing today is simpler than ever and easy to do online. The only need for dealers then would be for used vehicles, which can be done in those mega-resellers like Direct Auto.

 

[Twisted Kidney]

Of course people doing this repetitive crap are miserable and injured, that's why robots are so much better for menial labour.

The sad truth is that the unskilled, uneducated general labourer is less and less in demand and is going to make less and less money. No politician or CEO on earth is going to stop the process.

Hell, baby-boomers grew up in a world where just showing up to a job got you paid, looking busy was more important than getting shit done. Those days have mostly gone, times change.

It just sucks to be the first generation(s) to have to deal with the get skills or get pogie post-industrial world.

These changes will bring about massive economic transformation in the next fifty years. My great grand-kids will most likely grow up in a world where capitalism is either dead or unrecognisable because most of the need for a general work force is gone.

 

[Eickst]

The UAW is full of crap, and that type of bully mafia tactics to prevent normal people from applying for and getting jobs is nonsense. They are one of the primary reasons for the failure of domestic vehicle manufacture, producing low quality work at exorbitant wages, with low efficiency and accountability for their work, creating a culture of poor work ethic. Remember, these were the guys busted for smoking weed in the work parking lot on their lunch break.

One of the hurdles we will face in bringing back manufacturing to the US is to eliminate these criminal enterprises that leach off of the American people and businesses, and bring back regular employment opportunities with right-to-work laws.

It is ridiculous that we allow these unions to picket, bully, and physically harm others attempting to compete for their jobs, and we need to get back to promoting people based on their work ethic and skillset and not just who they are friends with and who has been there the longest.

There's a reason for employee protection laws. If corporations/employers actually cared for their employees and were good social citizens then maybe we wouldn't need them. Are unions bad? Sometimes, just like companies are. Since some unions are bad, and you advocate getting rid of all of them, does that mean since some companies are bad we should get rid of all of them as well? Of course not, as that would be silly. You shouldn't deal in absolutes.

 

[Nukester]

These changes will bring about massive economic transformation in the next fifty years. My great grand-kids will most likely grow up in a world where capitalism is either dead or unrecognisable because most of the need for a general work force is gone.

Hope for everyone's sake, it doesn't get that bad. If I wanted to live in Russia or China I would move. Capitalism drives innovation. Why do you think everything is stolen from the US and reproduced in China.

Manual labor will be needed for many tasks. I hope that never changes, because there are a LOT of people not smart enough to do anything else. We would be one hell of a welfare world.

Oh Yeah, the UAW is losing power and is pretty much paying people so say shit like this.

 

[Ducman69]

There's a reason for employee protection laws.

Uhm, yeah, there are. You don't need unions for employee protection laws. The vast majority of jobs in the US are non-unionized, and we are perfectly safe with OSHA etc.

If corporations/employers actually cared for their employees and were good social citizens then maybe we wouldn't need them.

Wouldn't need unions? We don't. Unions are not a pre-requisite to government laws protecting citizens.

Are unions bad? Sometimes, just like companies are. Since some unions are bad, and you advocate getting rid of all of them, does that mean since some companies are bad we should get rid of all of them as well?

Uhhh wtf? Explain yourself, using a quote of mine to support your assertion. I have stated, and maintain, that the UAW is a corrupt organization, with mafia ties, that uses violence and bullying to prevent the regular population for competing for the jobs that they have a right to work just as much as anyone else. But thanks to the UAW, you have to be related to or a friend of a friend to get the special invite, your work is then divorced from your compensation, and collectively they then extort unreasonable demands from the businesses or shut them down. That harms the American people and prosperity of our nation to the benefit of only a select few.

Anything that makes the United States, as a whole, weaker needs to be eliminated.

 

[Twisted Kidney]

Hope for everyone's sake, it doesn't get that bad. If I wanted to live in Russia or China I would move. Capitalism drives innovation. Why do you think everything is stolen from the US and reproduced in China.

Manual labor will be needed for many tasks. I hope that never changes, because there are a LOT of people not smart enough to do anything else. We would be one hell of a welfare world.

Oh Yeah, the UAW is losing power and is pretty much paying people so say shit like this.

China is vastly more capitalist than the United States has ever been. Russia is also more capitalist than the United States, their government is an oligarchy like the US system.

The day we can build a versatile android that can replace menial labour our "economy" will cease to exist. What replaces it will be fascinating to see, I hope I get to witness the day for pure curiosity.

 

[cyclone3d]

There's a reason for employee protection laws. If corporations/employers actually cared for their employees and were good social citizens then maybe we wouldn't need them. Are unions bad? Sometimes, just like companies are. Since some unions are bad, and you advocate getting rid of all of them, does that mean since some companies are bad we should get rid of all of them as well? Of course not, as that would be silly. You shouldn't deal in absolutes.

UAW is the scum of the earth. I worked at a plant that had the UAW there and it was an absolute insane asylum.

1. Some union workers would refuse to do their job, and then when somebody else was forced to do it, they would file a complaint and get extra pay for not doing the work.
2. Some union workers would sabotage the production lines. Not a single one ever got in trouble for it.
3. Some union workers would sabotage the products. Chicken bones and the like would get put inside automotive stereos.
4. The union bosses onsite would conspire with the union workers to make stuff take longer and also badmouth the actual people that owned the plant.
5. The union kept demanding more and more pay/benefits for these piece of filth "workers".
6. To get stuff done properly and in a timely fashion, we would have to sneak around and do the work that certain union workers were supposed to be doing. They either refused to do the work or had absolutely no clue what they were doing.

After that experience I vowed to NEVER work at a union shop again.

 

[daglesj]

Until I see the paperwork backing ether side up...didn't happen.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

cyclone3d

been through the SAME thing when I worked at a unionized OEM PC Builder. Needless to say, they are no longer here

 

[Uncle]

The UAW is full of crap, and that type of bully mafia tactics to prevent normal people from applying for and getting jobs is nonsense. They are one of the primary reasons for the failure of domestic vehicle manufacture, producing low quality work at exorbitant wages, with low efficiency and accountability for their work, creating a culture of poor work ethic. Remember, these were the guys busted for smoking weed in the work parking lot on their lunch break.

One of the hurdles we will face in bringing back manufacturing to the US is to eliminate these criminal enterprises that leach off of the American people and businesses, and bring back regular employment opportunities with right-to-work laws.

It is ridiculous that we allow these unions to picket, bully, and physically harm others attempting to compete for their jobs, and we need to get back to promoting people based on their work ethic and skillset and not just who they are friends with and who has been there the longest.

The second biggest problem we have to face is the dealer union, which is preventing vehicle manufacturers from selling their vehicles directly to the customer, removing an unnecessary middle-man, or at least allowing the manf. to partner with non-dealer businesses to resell their vehicles if they choose. They are also the group responsible for increasing taxes paid on private car sales and removing the ability to use the tax credit of a private car sale towards a new car purchased within a reasonable period of time, because that competed with their profits in used car sales.

For example, there's no reason that with minimal overhead, you couldn't shop on Amazon for a vehicle and have it white-glove delivered to your door with zero miles on it loaded off the truck straight from the factory, and pre-approved financing today is simpler than ever and easy to do online. The only need for dealers then would be for used vehicles, which can be done in those mega-resellers like Direct Auto.

"Remember, these were the guys busted for smoking weed in the work parking lot on their lunch break." Yes a few indulging in their addiction. Just like the Educated Lawyers, Doctors, Dentists, Accountants, Politicians, etc, etc whom use alcohol to maintain their sanity ingesting small amounts of alcohol during the day, and more when they leave work and stop and get their fill during "Happy Hour". Then go home and shit on their family. They are called maintenance drinkers. How many persons do you know personally that pop barbiturates in their daily lives. They are harder to spot, no brown bag, or smell in the air. Just like some pot smokers. . Here's a simple skill testing question. How many pot smokers have killed anyone smoking pot vs how many alcohol drinkers have killed innocent people behind the wheel of a car or persons killed during a domestic dispute brought on by a drunken rage. The facts are all out there. Come back with the numbers. Thats the issue with many, labeling, then tar and feathering everyone with the large brush stroke. For your info I don't ingest any drugs including alcohol, except I do sympathize with those that do. What was the reason to bring pot into your statement. Like Unionists are all drug crazed lunatics bringing the downfall of the US. Another number you should look up. How large are the unions today vs lets say in their prime. Who are you going to blame once all unions are gone. Ah yes Utopia. Keep dreaming.

 

[Jailer]

Dude is complaining about making $21/hour......for line work........

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Uncle,

Are you or were you a union worker or broughtt up in a union family?

 

[Twisted Kidney]

"Remember, these were the guys busted for smoking weed in the work parking lot on their lunch break." Yes a few indulging in their addiction.

But.. Beep boop.. My gods in the party told me that unions are bad and I believe everything I am told to believe.

If a union member does something bad it's because they are a union member. Thing I was programmed to hate is the cause of all bad things. Beep Boop...

 

[misfitsfiend]

Dude is complaining about making $21/hour......for line work........

You do realize the tesla plant is located in one of the most expensive regions in the country, no?

I've heard tesla/space x engineers are overworked but not necessarily underpaid. Would still be an amazing experience to work at either company I bet.

 

[Semantics]

There's a reason for employee protection laws. If corporations/employers actually cared for their employees and were good social citizens then maybe we wouldn't need them. Are unions bad? Sometimes, just like companies are. Since some unions are bad, and you advocate getting rid of all of them, does that mean since some companies are bad we should get rid of all of them as well? Of course not, as that would be silly. You shouldn't deal in absolutes.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes!

The way i look at it, either you need unions because you believe in a free market in which a unions presence is just that. It's a educated bargaining tool for semi-skilled to trade labor that doesn't specialized in work law. Because if a multi-national company can hire lawyers to pre-do all their negotiating for most of their jobs with complicated legal documents a person who doesn't want to spend a year of their life learning such things should have a way to get similar positioning. Just like you shouldn't have to be an expert in a field when you buy something in order not to get ripped off completely.

Or you have to accept government oversight to a degree. In both circumstances just come from the root that a company will do what a company wants which is make money so it wont look out for a worker if it can help it.

Union came from a time with pretty much no government oversight and increased in power in the US until government oversight(which funny enough came from union pressure most of the time) came into place. Then from careful stripping of powers from controlling party in congress over the 70's and 80's, along with opening up of cheaper labor coming from south east asia post nixon so put too much pressure on unskilled labor unions which dropped in membership.

You do realize the tesla plant is located in one of the most expensive regions in the country, no?

I've heard tesla/space x engineers are overworked but not necessarily underpaid. Would still be an amazing experience to work at either company I bet.

Depends really, some people don't mind being overworked but I often find it's a rare individual who puts up with that after 1-2 years of putting off social and personal life for work.

 

[cyclone3d]

But.. Beep boop.. My gods in the party told me that unions are bad and I believe everything I am told to believe.

If a union member does something bad it's because they are a union member. Thing I was programmed to hate is the cause of all bad things. Beep Boop...

Unions tend to attract people that are horrible workers? Why, you ask? Because they know that once they are a union member it is pretty much impossible to get fired unless they murder somebody on the job site.

They learn that they can get away with pretty much anything, and in a lot of cases, can get extra pay for being a jerk.

The teachers unions have the same exact issue. Super sucky "teachers" who demand more and more money and yet. do absolutely nothing to improve their work or actually teach the students what they need to learn. Instead they just pass the students on to the next grade, and so on and so forth.

 

[Nukester]

Telsa's fucking problem for building a plant in the most expensive places in the country, and the employee's problem for living there. They know what they are getting when they are hired.

Why not be smart and build in the southeast with the rest of the smart manufacturers. Tax breaks and affordable living. Happy employees.

California is a cess pool anyway (socialistic). One day that fault line will give them their dream and make California a sanctuary state.

 

[Semantics]

Unions tend to attract people that are horrible workers? Why, you ask? Because they know that once they are a union member it is pretty much impossible to get fired unless they murder somebody on the job site.

They learn that they can get away with pretty much anything, and in a lot of cases, can get extra pay for being a jerk.

The teachers unions have the same exact issue. Super sucky "teachers" who demand more and more money and yet. do absolutely nothing to improve their work or actually teach the students what they need to learn. Instead they just pass the students on to the next grade, and so on and so forth.

You do know it's poor management is the reason why you can't get rid of a bad union worker. Unless the work contract was poorly negotiated by the employer it's quite simple to get rid of union workers. You just can't dump them you actually just need documented reasons, it's not terribly hard to do we do it all the time in order to avoid paying unemployment to the state. If management can't get rid of actually bad or unproductive workers in a union environment that's managements fault 99% of the time.

 

[Nolan7689]

I am Union, but the UAW is crooked as shit. Especially Jeep and how they held Toledo hostage for the new plant.

I'm part of a relatively small local and we have our own crooked members of course( and the international is horrible) but our contractors have no issue being able to fire people. Failed drug screen? Gone. 3 write ups? Gone. No call no show? Gone. Write ups can be simple as you were late, or that you didn't report something you should have (such as minor collision on the job site with vehicle). Honestly they're really lenient though. You have to be a real piece of shit to get written up for being late a bunch. Doesn't hardly happen though that people get fired though.

 

[Xrave]

Telsa's fucking problem for building a plant in the most expensive places in the country, and the employee's problem for living there. They know what they are getting when they are hired.

Tesla actually bought the factory from Nummi (GM/Toyota). But yet, still in Fremont, CA.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Most Tesla production workers earn between $17 and $21 hourly. The average auto worker in the nation earns $25.58 an hour, and lives in a much less expensive region. The living wage in Alameda county, where we work, is more than $28 an hour for an adult and one child (I have two).

Maybe he/she should have made better life decisions then. Sometimes it irks me wrong when people bitch and moan about the high cost of living when they are doing a job which probably can be replaced by any uneducated person off the streets, the mentality of "Why can't I live in San Francisco with my McDonald's job!!!" type of arguments is just beyond tiresome. Here's an idea, MOVE, not like McDonalds are only in this area, not like you have a skillset that is tying you down to this area. Seriously, go to Detroit then and get paid more, and have to pay less to live there.... oh wait, no one wants to living in Detroit... gotcha, I want to have a beachfront house on Maui too but I'm not bitching about how much it costs to live there.

Many of my coworkers are commuting one or two hours before and after those long shifts because they can’t afford to live closer to the plant.

Or they could maybe get a slightly lower paying job near their home 2 hours away, not have to commute, and maybe spend that extra 4 hours a day doing something else with your life.

While working 60–70 hours per week for 4 years for a company will make you tired, it will also make you loyal. I’ve invested a great deal of time and sacrificed important moments with my family to help Tesla succeed. I believe in the vision of our company. I want to make it better.

Oh so now it comes down to it, this is someone who "believed in the company" and that's why they worked under these conditions. Again... poor life making decisions.

 

[Tardigrade]

Hope for everyone's sake, it doesn't get that bad. If I wanted to live in Russia or China I would move. Capitalism drives innovation. Why do you think everything is stolen from the US and reproduced in China.

I wouldn't worry so much. Work is not part of nature, it is to some extent a man made concept. With increased technology, automation, and lower costs, it is entirely feasible that a small proportion of the population can produce enough to cater for the welfare of the rest. It's harder for americans to see such a future perhaps given your apparent hatred of such things as free healthcare but look at eg Sweden and see the potential future of: minimum income, reduced working hours / days, free healthcare, etc. I believe there will simply come a point where not everyone needs to work, and that not working is not stigmatised. I'd like to think people can use the resulting free time to get engaged in the community, charity work, etc - or simply pursue the hobbies that they love, and ideally bring joy or inspiration to others.

 

[Ducman69]

With increased technology, automation, and lower costs, it is entirely feasible that a small proportion of the population can produce enough to cater for the welfare of the rest.

On Monday, the rest of the forum and I are sleeping in and remember to work extra hard, because you're saving up to buy me a new Ducati for me and sfsu needs a swimming pool, and those aren't cheap. I don't have to remind you that I will be quite perturbed if I hear that you're not productive enough to make that happen, and I will talk to my government representatives to light a fire under your butt.

It's harder for americans to see such a future perhaps given your apparent hatred of such things as free healthcare

There is no such thing as "free" healthcare. Healthcare is expensive, but if you'd like to call it "forced taxation no-choice in provider" healthcare, by all means. But whether the money comes out of your wallet to pay for yourself, or you are stealing money from your neighbor to pay your medical bills, the bill is the bill.

but look at eg Sweden and see the potential future of: minimum income, reduced working hours / days, free healthcare, etc.

A sparsely populated white utopia, situated on massive oil reserves. Kind of like how mysteriously Dubai can afford all these Lamborghini, surely not because of the oil, but because of the industrious nature of their population that not that long ago were nomadic goat herders.

I have an alternative, lets choose a more multicultural region with the same socialist policies like Venezuela, which is on the brink of complete economic collapse and starvation. And that's a country that again should be living on easy-street, with also such massive oil reserves of easy money to pay for socialist policies.

I believe there will simply come a point where not everyone needs to work, and that not working is not stigmatised.

In my experience, the people that pine for such a future imagine themselves as the ones not having to work, eating cold hot dogs out of the fridge and taking naps on the patio while other unfortunate people still have to provide for their lethargic lifestyle... you know being inspirational and stuff.

They don't usually imagine themselves doing all the work that needs to be done, with contribution completely divorced from compensation, and demanding their personal hours of toil as an entitlement, without any thanks or accolades for their labor. If you really want to expose most socialists, just walk into their house and start helping yourself to all their stuff, or sit down next to them at a restaurant and start picking food off their plate. They generally only imagine socialism as a benefit to themselves, being the ones taking, and tend to get pretty hostile when you take away half of their stuff.

 

[Gorankar]

Dude is complaining about making $21/hour......for line work........

In the Bay area, that may as well be minimum wage.

 

[Ducman69]

In the Bay area, that may as well be minimum wage.

Its a shame that indentured servitude is still so prevalent in our society, that people can't simply move to where costs of living are more reasonable, which would in fact balance out costs accordingly as housing prices and the like would be more balanced.

Unfortunately, I too have no choice and will have to move from Houston to Honolulu next month, because... uhm, like reasons and stuff. I demand a 50% wage increase for my services because its expensive there. Hopefully 300 million other Americans aren't "forced" to move there too, but if they are we can just vote for a $40 an hour minimum wage and then it will all be cool! You know, economics and stuff, it'll work, trust me as the government can print as much money as is needed and then everyone can have tons of dollars!

 

[Gorankar]

Its a shame that indentured servitude is still so prevalent in our society, that people can't simply move to where costs of living are more reasonable, which would in fact balance out costs accordingly as housing prices and the like would be more balanced.

Unfortunately, I too have no choice and will have to move from Houston to Honolulu next month, because... uhm, like reasons and stuff. I demand a 50% wage increase for my services because its expensive there. Hopefully 300 million other Americans aren't "forced" to move there too, but if they are we can just vote for a $40 an hour minimum wage and then it will all be cool! You know, economics and stuff, it'll work, trust me as the government can print as much money as is needed and then everyone can have tons of dollars!

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not saying they should not move if they can't afford to live somewhere. It is just common sense to go somewhere else if you can't make it in a given area. I am simply stating the reality that $21 an hour is basically nothing in that area.

 

[Semantics]

Its a shame that indentured servitude is still so prevalent in our society, that people can't simply move to where costs of living are more reasonable, which would in fact balance out costs accordingly as housing prices and the like would be more balanced.

Unfortunately, I too have no choice and will have to move from Houston to Honolulu next month, because... uhm, like reasons and stuff. I demand a 50% wage increase for my services because its expensive there. Hopefully 300 million other Americans aren't "forced" to move there too, but if they are we can just vote for a $40 an hour minimum wage and then it will all be cool! You know, economics and stuff, it'll work, trust me as the government can print as much money as is needed and then everyone can have tons of dollars!

Well cost of moving to find work obviously is prohibited to those earning less making a choice to move much harder, which is why i find toll roads so unamerican and why i refuse to live on the east coast permanently. Hell could barely stand more then a couple months at a time there driving. Don't get me wrong people are terrible everywhere on the road but on a toll road you pay extra for the privilege; that and the honking. Plus why pay for a toll road if the toll road has a HOV lane you pay extra to use as well. Don't need to honk at every green light immediately horns should be saved for more important reasons.

 

[Nukester]

I wouldn't worry so much. Work is not part of nature, it is to some extent a man made concept. With increased technology, automation, and lower costs, it is entirely feasible that a small proportion of the population can produce enough to cater for the welfare of the rest. It's harder for americans to see such a future perhaps given your apparent hatred of such things as free healthcare but look at eg Sweden and see the potential future of: minimum income, reduced working hours / days, free healthcare, etc. I believe there will simply come a point where not everyone needs to work, and that not working is not stigmatised. I'd like to think people can use the resulting free time to get engaged in the community, charity work, etc - or simply pursue the hobbies that they love, and ideally bring joy or inspiration to others.

That "Utopian" society can only exist where people don't sit on their asses like in the US. In Sweden, people are productive. In the US, given benefits without work, I see so many lazy people who just collect and don't contribute it makes me sick. BTW, nothing is free, we pay dearly for it out of our paychecks.

 

[Grahamkracka]

You do realize the tesla plant is located in one of the most expensive regions in the country, no?

I've heard tesla/space x engineers are overworked but not necessarily underpaid. Would still be an amazing experience to work at either company I bet.

I've worked at Space X. The pay is good if you work a 40 hour week. Nobody works a 40 hour week there, and it's not by choice.

 

[Wiffle]

Everyone is to blame for this. Each little individual piece is the problem, because each individual piece likes to pass the blame along. It never ends, and the whole suffers. From the top paid CEO to the lowest paid worker, each tries to take more and more for themselves, and then blame others when shit hits the fan. Rather than all working together, people let entitlement get the better of them, and it all falls to pieces.

If you really want a bigger slice of the pie, make the pie bigger. This way everyone gets a bigger slice including yourself.

 

[shaggy77]

Quite frankly, I don't know why Telsa would have manufacturing in California. I would have thought it would have been more towards the South. No worries about the union due to right to work laws. Able to pay better wages while saving money on labor. So forth and so on. The only main issue would be developing the infrastructure to do it. Whether or not Tesla or Musk has the capital to pull it off is another thing. If he had the capital and didn't invest, it would make me think his long term investment in EVs is really a short term gimmick. Another possible reason, once the union got into the Auto sector of his companies, it could lead to other divisions like Solar City or the battery manufacturing.

 

[Grahamkracka]

Quite frankly, I don't know why Telsa would have manufacturing in California. I would have thought it would have been more towards the South. No worries about the union due to right to work laws. Able to pay better wages while saving money on labor. So forth and so on. The only main issue would be developing the infrastructure to do it. Whether or not Tesla or Musk has the capital to pull it off is another thing. If he had the capital and didn't invest, it would make me think his long term investment in EVs is really a short term gimmick. Another possible reason, once the union got into the Auto sector of his companies, it could lead to other divisions like Solar City or the battery manufacturing.

30 seconds of research would reveal that they bought the plant and the equipment inside of it for pennies on the dollar. Capital costs were a major barrier to Tesla early on and this plant basically fell into their laps.

 

[Semantics]

Quite frankly, I don't know why Telsa would have manufacturing in California. I would have thought it would have been more towards the South. No worries about the union due to right to work laws. Able to pay better wages while saving money on labor. So forth and so on. The only main issue would be developing the infrastructure to do it. Whether or not Tesla or Musk has the capital to pull it off is another thing. If he had the capital and didn't invest, it would make me think his long term investment in EVs is really a short term gimmick. Another possible reason, once the union got into the Auto sector of his companies, it could lead to other divisions like Solar City or the battery manufacturing.

The tesla plant isn't union to begin with afaik...that's why the worker is complaining and the press is picking it up it's likely foreshadowing union involvement. As far as wages go, cost of living in the bible belt is lower and wages are lower. Unions bargain for more than wages. Things like Benefits and working conditions, ie. discouraging forced overtime every week.

Everyone is to blame for this. Each little individual piece is the problem, because each individual piece likes to pass the blame along. It never ends, and the whole suffers. From the top paid CEO to the lowest paid worker, each tries to take more and more for themselves, and then blame others when shit hits the fan. Rather than all working together, people let entitlement get the better of them, and it all falls to pieces.

If you really want a bigger slice of the pie, make the pie bigger. This way everyone gets a bigger slice including yourself.

World is limited the idea that permanent growth is real is just stock market churn for companies to grow others have to fail, technology supplements this cycle and obfuscates the loss so it's not all bad but if you don't get something for yourself you'll never get anything. Nobody is going to give you anything that's what earning it means. It's also why corporate environments can become competitively toxic to the point of hurting the bottom line. The problems of a competitive work environment when handled poorly.

 

[shaggy77]

30 seconds of research would reveal that they bought the plant and the equipment inside of it for pennies on the dollar. Capital costs were a major barrier to Tesla early on and this plant basically fell into their laps.

OK so be it. The plant fell into their proverbial laps. However, any areas that have stronger than normal tendencies for unionization, such as the Northeast and the Midwest. Many car companies are invested in the south due to lack of union in roads in these areas. Companies like BMW, Toyota, Honda and Nissan to name a few all have plants in the south for this reason. Why do you think companies like Ford or GM would love to have plants in the south? Cause they could get rid of the unionized workforce that comes with it. If Ford decided to build trucks in Alabama, you know what would happen? The UAW would be right there with their hands out. Anyway, I wonder if Telsa had known this was coming for a long time.

The tesla plant isn't union to begin with afaik...that's why the worker is complaining and the press is picking it up it's likely foreshadowing union involvement. As far as wages go, cost of living in the bible belt is lower and wages are lower. Unions bargain for more than wages. Things like Benefits and working conditions, ie. discouraging forced overtime every week.

Never did I say it was union either. Oh I know the cost of living is cheaper in the south. I have to laugh at all the people from the Northeast moving there. I know many friends and customers relocating to NC or SC areas. They talk about how everything is cheaper and I even said your wages too. Many claim it as a trade off but as soon as you talk about something from home, they get all teary eyed saying yea we can't get that here. Speaking of which, I just had a call from one of my clients. He was looking to leave upstate NY for NC since he has a couple of family members living there. He took some time off from his job to look into get work down there. 10 interviews. 10 offers. I said what's stopping you during our call. He said they want to pay me way less than what he was worth. They were offering about 15K lower a year. One offer was willing to work with him for a 1 or 2 more bucks an hour but nothing more than that. He said these companies down there were out of their minds. I told him move down there and start his own company. He said he was actually looking into it. It was not in the plans but now it is. Good guy. Loads of talent within the industry. He is an operator than basically runs the shop he works for now.

 

[L0s7]

Believable.

I have interviewed multiple people that have worked on the Tesla production line in Fremont (I work in the bay area) and they've pretty much all said it sucks. From hours, production expectations, to firing you if you make one mistake, or show up a couple minutes late. The pay is not that great either, particularly for the area.

The difference is that if you work inside actually engineering teams, is when you get buttered up.

 

[Xrave]

Quite frankly, I don't know why Telsa would have manufacturing in California. I would have thought it would have been more towards the South. No worries about the union due to right to work laws. Able to pay better wages while saving money on labor. So forth and so on. The only main issue would be developing the infrastructure to do it.

Another reason is that they wanted a location their design engineers could get to easily to test/verify designs. It's very difficult if your design team is in Palo Alto but your factory is in Mexico, or somewhere in the SE.

 

[Ducman69]

That "Utopian" society can only exist where people don't sit on their asses like in the US.

 

[Rysen]

This is ridiculous. If you read a little bit of histroy you would know that the reason socialist leaders rise is due to popular movements where the people were tired of their previous system that was exploiting the crap out of them. Socialist did not fuck up the country. It was fucked already and they came in and united the people in their struggle. Is it much better now? Venezuela is a poor country so economically is not much better than what it was before the socialist rise (unless you were in the wealthy class then you are way worst and you probably now live in the U.S. but that is less than 0.1% of the population). However in terms of education and health, they actually have significantly higher educational level with the so called "socialist" regime than they did before. Their people are getting significantly mroe healthcare than they did before. There are many advantages that make people in those countries continue to select their authoritarian leaders. Don't let propaganda fool you. Venezula before its brand of socialism was a great place for very few wealthy people, the rest of the population was pretty much in the same conditions they are now.

So don't try to use a poor country that was poor before and is poor now to justify your weak argument against socialist measures.

 

[Ducman69]

Venezula before its brand of socialism was a great place for very few wealthy people, the rest of the population was pretty much in the same conditions they are now.

So your argument is that pre-socialism, Venezuela was a great place to live for some people, and post-socialism Venezuela is a great place to live for no one, where instead of just some people being cripplingly poor, everyone is! I'm sure they are loving their superior healthcare, with rolling blackouts causing fatalities across the country in hospitals that can no longer maintain generator power.

I mean, its pretty bad when your country even runs out of toilet paper for over a year.

Venezuela’s product shortages have become so severe that some hotels in that country are asking guests to bring their own toilet paper and soap, a local tourism industry spokesman said on Wednesday….

“It’s an extreme situation,” says Xinia Camacho, owner of a 20-room boutique hotel in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada national park. “For over a year we haven’t had toilet paper, soap, any kind of milk, coffee or sugar. So we have to tell our guests to come prepared.”…

Montilla says bigger hotels can circumvent product shortages by buying toilet paper and other basic supplies from black market smugglers who charge up to 6-times the regular price. But smaller, family-run hotels can’t always afford to pay such steep prices, which means that sometimes they have to make do without.