Tesla Downplays Danger of 'Bricked' Battery

Off topic but has anyone seen this? Soooo fucking cool.


features-motorhead1.jpg


Johnathan Goodwin can get 100 mpg out of a Lincoln Continental, cut emissions by 80%, and double the horsepower. Does the car business have the guts to follow him?


http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html
 
NoOther said:
What are you trying to prove Jay? That isn't at all what we are talking about. We are talking about unplugging a battery so it has no current, then draining it fully so it has no charge. That is not at all the scenario you are presenting. Just charging a battery and running it til it no longer powers the laptop is not the same as fully draining the battery. If you then took that battery when it could no longer boot up and leave it connected to something that was still using some of its power for months, it would fully drain and then be inoperable.
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You can't be reading my posts. Let's try this.

I AM RUNNING THEM DEAD, LEAVING THEM DEAD FOR MONTHS AND RECHARGING THEM.

My point is if Dell, Asus, and HP can all get their hands on batteries that can survive a handful of low voltage passes, Tesla should be able to as well.
 
toffty said:
Come back to me when you can drive your car 100 miles for $2.75 - actually free for me with solar on my roof. We're at (if not past already) peak oil and gas is not going to get cheaper.

I've owned a Nissan Leaf for 3 months now and hate driving a gas cars, so ancient. (funny that electric cars are as old :D )
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The solar panel on your Leaf doesn't charge the batteries that move your car :rolleyes:
 
CharonPDX said:
Really? :rolleyes:

I was comparing the electric parts, if you didn't read.
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I did read, but not all cars are equal and hybrid cars are a lot different than full electric cars. My uncle owns an electric golf cart which is actually classified as an electric car. It suffers from the same problems as the Tesla. Fortunately in the design of his car, the batteries are connected in some kind of serial fashion so he can replace individual batteries when they die (consequently another symptom he has is losing his top speed as they start to die out). Perhaps the Tesla's system relies too much on the batteries operating in parallel. I am not completely sure. But the system is a lot different than the Prius. And perhaps they will institute some kind system to prevent that. My guess is that it is much harder than you think. And again...Toyota has huge amounts to budget for these kinds of things compared to Tesla which is an extremely small company. Almost all car manufacturers when they start out end up having many flaws in their first designs until they get their system perfected.

Besides all that, you are still comparing disparate electric systems with disparate batteries.
 
BigJayDogg3 said:
You can't be reading my posts. Let's try this.

I AM RUNNING THEM DEAD, LEAVING THEM DEAD FOR MONTHS AND RECHARGING THEM.

My point is if Dell, Asus, and HP can all get their hands on batteries that can survive a handful of low voltage passes, Tesla should be able to as well.
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First of all, no need for yelling. Secondly, I did read that is why I asked because what you said in the post that i quoted and let me requote here to refresh your memory, does not make sense compared to what we were talking about:

BigJayDogg3 said:
This is a laptop that charged, and then had the power cord removed leaving it running off the battery.
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Charing a battery up, then running on that battery is not the issue. That was my point and I was asking why you were even bringing that up because it didn't make any sense and is not at all running off a dead battery. If you had said you charged a battery, took it off AC power, ran it til it was dead and then let it sit for a few months and then charged it up again, that would make sense. But that wasn't what you said, so I wanted clarification.

BigJayDogg3 said:
If we're talking leaving the car unplugged for like a year then ok. I'll accept that as being at least moderately acceptable. But many of the Lithium ion powered devices I own have not been on a charger for quite some time...they charge and run on battery power without any obvious problem. I know eventually due to the abuse I've given these batteries they'll eventually refuse to take a charge. But that hasn't happened so far.
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So what is the difference between a year and 4 months? Batteries for laptops are completely different that batteries for cars. A car requires far more electricity than a laptop. Comparing the 2 is completely ridiculous. And I can prove your theory wrong about those batteries being able to come back from the dead just recently in using my phone. Where it depleted a 2200 mAH battery in just 2 days. From brand new and fully charged to completely drained and inoperable....2 days. Another barry they tested it with died in 2 weeks. It took it 4 months from the previous 3200 mAH battery and the original is still kicking, The original I left it sitting around for a year, but it had a full charge when I first took it out and put it in storage. They gave me a new phone and that phone with the original battery works fine now.

Morale of the story, the simple fact is when your devices don't fully shut off and still take a charge from the battery, it will eventually fully deplete the battery and leave it useless. This is the case with the Tesla. Eventually all laptop batteries will die based on the drain on the batteries, even if you consistently charge them.
 
not Teslas issue
i fly model Helicoptors we use the same batteries called Li-pos
if you over discharge them they will die forever its pretty simple
if you want them to last you need to ever use more then 80% of rated capacity

only issue i see here is not shutting down EVERY THING once it gets close to this or alerting the user in some way
 
The other issue people forget is that a plug in vehicle still has to get power and that power ultimately comes from coal a fired plant, etc. While there is some novelty now such that you have places providing free charging I expect to be short lived once it starts costing too much

There is also way too much politics involved with solar and electric vehicle tech.. Tax payers should not be forced to subsidize certain players in the business.
 
mzs_biteme said:
Electric car = the dumbest fucking idea since burning food for fuel!!!! /thread
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Yea, using a power supply that can be created by all sorts of technologies (wind, solar, nuclear, coal, etc) that already a built in infrastructure to power vehicles is just crazy talk.
 
NoOther said:
First of all, no need for yelling. Secondly, I did read that is why I asked because what you said in the post that i quoted and let me requote here to refresh your memory, does not make sense compared to what we were talking about:
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Had you gone back and read, you would have seen that I was replying to a post asking for clarification. Between the first post and the second, that information was disseminated.


So what is the difference between a year and 4 months?
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Much larger battery should leave much more capacity in reserve. Longer "runtime" before hitting the absolute bottom of what the battery will hold.

Batteries for laptops are completely different that batteries for cars. A car requires far more electricity than a laptop. Comparing the 2 is completely ridiculous. And I can prove your theory wrong about those batteries being able to come back from the dead just recently in using my phone. Where it depleted a 2200 mAH battery in just 2 days.
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You can't have it both ways. If I can't compare a laptop to a car, you can't compare a phone to a laptop. Sorry.
 
no..he is correct. the reason for the price of gas being so high is because of hedging. The biggest culprit is the USA. The actually world demand for fuel is not high, and hedging on the crude oil has what made the farking price per barrel go sky high.
And because of this, alternatives like growing food to extract bio-fuel causes food prices to rise. For example, the larger percentage of corn is used for extracting bio diesel more than being used for livestock. I assume you can work it out that feed for livestock will go up and the chain reaction will come down to us consumers. I believe the long term solution is to make vehicles run as efficient as possible and hybrid with small engine capacity is the road to go. Full batteries is not the route to go at this point because the manufacturing and disposal of the batteries is extremely detrimental to the environment. The only plus point is that it produces no carbon emission when using it which is a weak advantage when put up against producing and disposing of these batteries.
 
Tekara said:
That actually has more to do with the cut off, basically where the internal circuitry of the battery no longer allows the battery to discharge. This same circuitry also has a cut off where it will no longer allow a charge because lithium gets unstable past a certain point.

Laptop and phone battery manufacturers have known about this problem for some time and combat it by putting a rather large range in the heuristics of the cut off voltages so that those batteries will almost never have this problem.

However, those heuristics downside is that about 10-15% of the overall charge of the battery is basically non-usable because the battery always have enough juice to take a proper stable charge within the full operating spectrum (temperature, etc) of the battery.

You can force this described bricking problem by taking a dead lithium battery from anything, opening it up and placing a load directly across the lithium cells to deplete it past the circuit's tolerances and you will get the battery to a point where the charging circuit will no longer charge the battery. And yes, you can directly power the cell to revive it, though at the risk of causing an explosion.

As far as portable electronic batteries having this issue, it's something that plagued OQO and their batteries. Leave the device dead for too long and the battery would be toast; however, they were a small company with a niche product, so few ever hear about such things. So this is nothing new, just uncommon.

Anyway, by reducing the heuristics, Tesla batteries will have provide power for longer, but this comes at the risk of causing the batteries to deplete past their acceptable range and stop taking a charge.
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Some of this info I knew, some I didn't. +2 internets

I'll admit inaccuracy on specifics, but the overarching point of my argument is (in my opinion anyway) still solid. Tesla should have provided battery firmware that gave the false zero earlier and just taken the hit that comes with that.
 
lchan said:
no..he is correct. the reason for the price of gas being so high is because of hedging. The biggest culprit is the USA. The actually world demand for fuel is not high, and hedging on the crude oil has what made the farking price per barrel go sky high.
And because of this, alternatives like growing food to extract bio-fuel causes food prices to rise. For example, the larger percentage of corn is used for extracting bio diesel more than being used for livestock. I assume you can work it out that feed for livestock will go up and the chain reaction will come down to us consumers. I believe the long term solution is to make vehicles run as efficient as possible and hybrid with small engine capacity is the road to go. Full batteries is not the route to go at this point because the manufacturing and disposal of the batteries is extremely detrimental to the environment. The only plus point is that it produces no carbon emission when using it which is a weak advantage when put up against producing and disposing of these batteries.
Click to expand...

This is less about speculation and more about our corrupt Fed showering the world with cheap money. Gas and a whole lot more are going up in price.
 
lchan said:
no..he is correct. the reason for the price of gas being so high is because of hedging. The biggest culprit is the USA. The actually world demand for fuel is not high, and hedging on the crude oil has what made the farking price per barrel go sky high.
And because of this, alternatives like growing food to extract bio-fuel causes food prices to rise. For example, the larger percentage of corn is used for extracting bio diesel more than being used for livestock. I assume you can work it out that feed for livestock will go up and the chain reaction will come down to us consumers. I believe the long term solution is to make vehicles run as efficient as possible and hybrid with small engine capacity is the road to go. Full batteries is not the route to go at this point because the manufacturing and disposal of the batteries is extremely detrimental to the environment. The only plus point is that it produces no carbon emission when using it which is a weak advantage when put up against producing and disposing of these batteries.
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Fuel cells
wind / hydro / fission / fusion to make H2 from sea water
 
The traditional battery powered car is a stepping stone to a better technology. Possibly hydrogen powered electric cars or super capacitors to power electric cars.

Personally I think Tesla is a promising company. The roadster is pretty much what they had to build as a first car. It had to be small and light weight to get a good range (~250miles) for technology at the time and because of the cost of the technology it had to be a sports car to be marketable in that price range. An economical sedan is a pretty hard sell at $100k-120K. Now the Model S looks great and I think it would be desirable even if it wasn't electric, which is more than I can say about the Leaf, Prius, Volt, and etc. It also isn't cheap though at $50-$80K, but at least obtainable.
 
What I want to know is what in God's name is drawing that much power that it can kill the Roadsters battery in 11 weeks.
The thing has 53kWh of capacity "A fully charged ESS stores approximately 53 kWh of electrical energy at a nominal 375 volts". At idle, I could leave my PC and monitors on for nearly a month with that. Why not just turn it all off? What could possibly need to be running constantly that could kill such a massive battery in less than 3 months?
 
 
toffty said:
Come back to me when you can drive your car 100 miles for $2.75 - actually free for me with solar on my roof. We're at (if not past already) peak oil and gas is not going to get cheaper.

I've owned a Nissan Leaf for 3 months now and hate driving a gas cars, so ancient. (funny that electric cars are as old :D )

P.S. To everyone: To better understand how growth works when related to gas consumption (and all other consumption problems) do yourself a favor and watch this 8 part video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL6A1FD147A45EF50D
Click to expand...
Damn, you have what I want. Electric car with solar powered home. You could drive your car for nearly free.
 
toffty said:
Come back to me when you can drive your car 100 miles for $2.75 - actually free for me with solar on my roof.
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The Tesla's battery stores 53 kwh of energy, so if it would only cost you $2.75 to charge, you would have to be paying an extreamly low price of only 5 cents/kwh.

Out here in Southern California, we START at 13 cents/kwh, and as you use more, it quickly rises to 16 cent/kwh and then to 24, 28 and eventually 31 cents/kwh. At 24 cents/kwh, it would cost $12.72 to charge the battery and drive 100 miles. My standard 4 cyl Camry gets 35 MPG on the highway at around 75 MPH. At $4/gallon for gas, my cost for 100 miles would only be $11.42, or about 10% less

As for it being free electricity from your solar panels, unless you got the panels for free, the electricity is costing your something. Take you cost for the panels, divided by how many kwh's they deliver over thier life time to get you bas cost. Make sure you also include all the money you won't have 20 years from now if instead you had invested the money instead.

If electricity is really that cheap where you live, then you will likely never even break even on the solar panels.
 
Tekara said:
You are definitely correct in that Tesla could have done better!

I can't help but to wonder if there even is a discharge cutoff point in the batteries due to the engineers never even considering the notion that a person would not charge the car when it's not in use and especially not charge the vehicle when the car warns of a low battery and / or the subsystems no longer allow using the car.

Maybe we'll find out, someday. :p
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Tesla said there is and that it is aggressive about warning the driver. Newer versions apparently even phone home to Tesla so that they can follow up.

This whole thing is a total non-issue. Someone ignored the maintenance on their exotic car, left it sitting for months without doing any prep, and was surprised at seeing a repair bill. Same shit would happen with a gas-powered car, just the repair costs would be different.
 
Damn, you could get a whole new electric car for the 40 g's it costs to replace the battery, albeit one that's probably not as sporty as the Tesla. This is definitely not the car for a forgetful owner.
 
What I think this article highlights is the fact that these companies are building these electric cars with massive profits in mind and not electric cars that are priced for the average family. The Leaf, the Volt, etc, this model and others that have been announced are just way way over priced. Remember the Metro Geo that was a V3 engine that got 50mpg on gasoline? Yeah, someone locally pulled the engine from one, put in an electric motor and battery pack and he is getting 400 miles per charge. And the cost per charge was around $4 dollars. He said that if car manufactures wanted to, they could replicate the same design, body style, AC along with safety features and put that car in driveways of Americans for under $14,000. But he said they never would because the profits are too small.
 
kllrnohj said:
Someone ignored the maintenance on their exotic car, left it sitting for months without doing any prep, and was surprised at seeing a repair bill. Same shit would happen with a gas-powered car, just the repair costs would be different.
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That's true. I've seen pics of some guy's M3 after he didn't change the oil for 100k miles. They basically had to strip the whole engine to clean out all this golf ball sized clods of muck.

It boggles my mind that someone would buy an M3 and not bother to change the oil. I buy motorcycles for two thousand bucks and baby the hell out of them.
 
BigJayDogg3 said:
You can't be reading my posts. Let's try this.

I AM RUNNING THEM DEAD, LEAVING THEM DEAD FOR MONTHS AND RECHARGING THEM.

My point is if Dell, Asus, and HP can all get their hands on batteries that can survive a handful of low voltage passes, Tesla should be able to as well.
Click to expand...

My own experience with this. An uncle gave us a new 15" laptop as a present. However, we didn't have much use for it because the desktops we had were much more comfortable to use, so we only managed to use it for a short while before putting it in its carrying case and left alone in a corner for about a year.

One year later my father was going on a trip and I remembered the laptop and brought it out so he can use it.

Battery was dead and would no longer hold a charge longer than 2 minutes. I'm considering getting it replaced but decided the netbooks were plenty portable enough.
 
Sorry hipsters, but all electric cars are not the future. So, if you were expecting a hug from a polar bear you're gonna have to wait until hydrogen gets its shit together.
 
NoOther said:
First, the Prius is nothing at all like the Tesla. You are comparing apples and oranges. A hybrid is not the same as an all electric car. The Prius has a gasoline engine as well as the electric engine. It has a very complicated system to prevent bricking. But it can definitely still be bricked. The R&D budget of Toyota completely dwarfs that of Tesla as well. Secondly, being as the Tesla is an all electric super car, it has to have enough batteries to fully power the car. The Prius relies on its gas engine to do accelerating and provide the most power, the electric engine kicks on for cruising, it also has systems to recharge the traction battery through braking. The Tesla cannot afford to put as many of these things in place as Toyota since 75% of the car weight is battery. They also don't have the benefit of having a gas engine to help charge up the battery while running.

There are many more things to consider as well besides just these few blatant differences. Using a 12V accessory battery may not be enough for some of their systems. Remember that the 12V batteries are used to kick over an alternator that then relies on a gas engine to initiate starting the car. Starting your vehicle uses the most amount of electricity in a gas car, but it is still only a fraction of the total energy needed to get it going. An all electric car relies on its battery source for this energy and a standard 12V car battery may not nearly be enough to provide it. So that is just one more thing to consider among a ton of things that make a modern car go vroom vroom.

As for this "flaw", I don't see the flaw. In this day and age of electronic devices and Li-Ion batteries we should all be used to the depleted state of batteries and bricking them. I literally just had my last phone go schizo and brick 3 batteries in a row when it ran out of juice. I do feel perhaps Tesla is not doing enough to inform their customers ahead of time, but really, what sales person wants to tell the horror story of how the customer's car may not start and need $40k to replace a dead battery...
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A lot of inaccuracies in this post about the Prius. It does not rely on a gas engine to start the car, you can go straight to all electric and drive for a few miles. The electric motor can also put out about a third of the total horsepower and helps greatly with accelerating & braking, not just cruising.

There's still no reason Tesla can't use a 12V aux battery for sustaining it during storage/power off. As another poster said, at least you brick the $40 12 volt and not the $40,000 traction battery. The only reason I can think they don't have a master relay to disconnect the traction battery is to use energy from the battery to heat the battery in cold weather.

I still think it'd be better for them to have a low power cut off to protect the battery (hell my $200 heli has this) and take my chances with the cold, ect. than to have a definitely bricked $40,000 paperweight. That's just poor engineering.
 
I would say that is the biggest design flaw I have ever heard of. This alone would keep me from buying the vehicle.
Tesla should address this and repair every vehicle A.S.A.P. or sales would most likley suffer bad.
 
Design flaw or not..all electric vehicles are a stupid purchase for people who want to believe they are doing something good for the environment. As it stands right now, someone driving a 20 year old gas sipper is being more environmentally friendly than these misguided idiots. Will EVs potentially become the best environmental choice? "Possibly". However it is going to take some serious advances in battery technology for it to happen. Frankly I believe that another alternative fuel is going to happen before that does.

Real choices if you want to be environmentally friendly, or at least as much as reasonably possible.

1) Drive an older car and maintain it. This keeps it out of the junkyard and really is the ultimate form of recycling.
2) Convert your car to natural gas

These are the only 2 "Real" choices right now. Any technology that relies heavily on large battery packs that are extremely hazardous to manufacturer and dispose of is actually less environmental than buying a new high mpg straight gas vehicle. Sorry folks, but hybrids aren't environmentally friendly and are just for hipsters who want to act superior to everyone else when they are actually doing more harm than the teen driving a honda who doesn't even care.
 
nutzo said:
The Tesla's battery stores 53 kwh of energy, so if it would only cost you $2.75 to charge, you would have to be paying an extreamly low price of only 5 cents/kwh.

Out here in Southern California, we START at 13 cents/kwh, and as you use more, it quickly rises to 16 cent/kwh and then to 24, 28 and eventually 31 cents/kwh. At 24 cents/kwh, it would cost $12.72 to charge the battery and drive 100 miles. My standard 4 cyl Camry gets 35 MPG on the highway at around 75 MPH. At $4/gallon for gas, my cost for 100 miles would only be $11.42, or about 10% less

As for it being free electricity from your solar panels, unless you got the panels for free, the electricity is costing your something. Take you cost for the panels, divided by how many kwh's they deliver over thier life time to get you bas cost. Make sure you also include all the money you won't have 20 years from now if instead you had invested the money instead.

If electricity is really that cheap where you live, then you will likely never even break even on the solar panels.
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Here in Jersey I was paying 12 cents/kwh until I discovered that we can switch energy providers. PSEG is still the company I deal with, but MXenergy are now my energy providers. Dropping the cost down to 9 something kwh. Some people may live in areas where they could get charged less at night then during the day. You really should do some research.

I wanna go solar one day, not because my electric bill is too high, but because of electric cars. One day most people will drive these cars, and electricity prices will go up. Solar makes it a cost effective.
 
And cars cost 50% more for the privilege.

toffty said:
Come back to me when you can drive your car 100 miles for $2.75 - actually free for me with solar on my roof. We're at (if not past already) peak oil and gas is not going to get cheaper.

I've owned a Nissan Leaf for 3 months now and hate driving a gas cars, so ancient. (funny that electric cars are as old :D )

P.S. To everyone: To better understand how growth works when related to gas consumption (and all other consumption problems) do yourself a favor and watch this 8 part video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL6A1FD147A45EF50D
Click to expand...
 
Dayaks said:
A lot of inaccuracies in this post about the Prius. It does not rely on a gas engine to start the car, you can go straight to all electric and drive for a few miles. The electric motor can also put out about a third of the total horsepower and helps greatly with accelerating & braking, not just cruising.

There's still no reason Tesla can't use a 12V aux battery for sustaining it during storage/power off. As another poster said, at least you brick the $40 12 volt and not the $40,000 traction battery. The only reason I can think they don't have a master relay to disconnect the traction battery is to use energy from the battery to heat the battery in cold weather.

I still think it'd be better for them to have a low power cut off to protect the battery (hell my $200 heli has this) and take my chances with the cold, ect. than to have a definitely bricked $40,000 paperweight. That's just poor engineering.
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A lot of inaccuracies in this post. 1) I never said the Prius used its gas engined to start the car. I was referring to the original intent of a 12V battery in conjunction with a gas engine. 2) Yes an electric car can use the electric motor to help with accelerating, but that doesn't give the best charge/mpg ratio. You use far more electricity when using the electric motor to accelerate. 3) With a traction engine, the braking charges up the electric motor, you are not really using it to brake.

4) How the hell do you know there is no reason the Tesla can't use a 12V battery. Are you a senior mechanical engineer with 15+ years of super electric car design? So how do you know what the Tesla can and cannot do? There could be a number of reasons why it doesn't have a 12V battery.

5) Comparing a Tesla to a $200 heli is just assinine. Comparing the Tesla to the Prius is ridiculous. They are completely different cars, designed for completely different purposes. I am amazed people are even trying to draw comparisons between them. If you want to compare vehicles, compare it to another completely electric vehicle.
 
nutzo said:
The Tesla's battery stores 53 kwh of energy, so if it would only cost you $2.75 to charge, you would have to be paying an extreamly low price of only 5 cents/kwh.

Out here in Southern California, we START at 13 cents/kwh, and as you use more, it quickly rises to 16 cent/kwh and then to 24, 28 and eventually 31 cents/kwh. At 24 cents/kwh, it would cost $12.72 to charge the battery and drive 100 miles. My standard 4 cyl Camry gets 35 MPG on the highway at around 75 MPH. At $4/gallon for gas, my cost for 100 miles would only be $11.42, or about 10% less

As for it being free electricity from your solar panels, unless you got the panels for free, the electricity is costing your something. Take you cost for the panels, divided by how many kwh's they deliver over thier life time to get you bas cost. Make sure you also include all the money you won't have 20 years from now if instead you had invested the money instead.

If electricity is really that cheap where you live, then you will likely never even break even on the solar panels.
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Totally agree with you on that. I find it funny how all these people are touting hybrids or electric cars and brag how they don't need the gas or how many miles they can go on their charge but fail to mention that huge extra price they pay to get such a vehicle. Same principle applies to solar panels, I like the idea but it'll take a good 6-7 years or more to just break even.
 
BigJayDogg3 said:
Had you gone back and read, you would have seen that I was replying to a post asking for clarification. Between the first post and the second, that information was disseminated.
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You weren't asking for anything in your post. You were just off saying crap again about a laptop in a thread about a car.

BigJayDogg3 said:
Much larger battery should leave much more capacity in reserve. Longer "runtime" before hitting the absolute bottom of what the battery will hold.
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And a car uses far more electricity than your laptop... Just because you have higher capacity does not mean you have the means to continuously maintain that higher capacity when it is powering something say...like a car.

BigJayDogg3 said:
You can't have it both ways. If I can't compare a laptop to a car, you can't compare a phone to a laptop. Sorry.
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Actually I most certainly can. A phone is far far closer to a laptop than a laptop is to a car. A laptop is nothing like a car, whereas a phone is very much like a laptop. Phone->tablet->laptop. They all use the same kinds of batteries and electronics. They do very similar things for similar purposes. They can even often use some of the same operating systems. So yes, I absolutely can make that comparison and it is absolutely different than comparing a laptop to a car.
 
NoOther said:
Phone->tablet->laptop. They all use the same kinds of batteries and electronics. They do very similar things for similar purposes. They can even often use some of the same operating systems. So yes, I absolutely can make that comparison and it is absolutely different than comparing a laptop to a car.
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No its not seeing as how the Tesla uses a very large Lithium ion battery pack.

What do laptops and cell phones use? Lithium ion battery packs.

Its obvious you're never going to see the parallels being drawn here. I quit.
 
BigJayDogg3 said:
No its not seeing as how the Tesla uses a very large Lithium ion battery pack.

What do laptops and cell phones use? Lithium ion battery packs.

Its obvious you're never going to see the parallels being drawn here. I quit.
Click to expand...

Oh okay...since a car uses the same battery technology as a laptop, they are totally the same... :rolleyes:

Seriously, that is what you are going with? That is is plain ludicrous. How can you honestly use that as a basis for your arguments? There are not parallels being drawn other than the batteries they use. A laptop and a car are nothing at all alike. They don't use their batteries the same, they don't operate the same, they hardly have anything in common at all. You simply cannot accurately compare them at all.
 
Can't you zap it with an Arc welder? that has worked for laptop batteries.
 
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