Tesla disables feature after car is purchased, claims feature 'wasn't paid for'.

Dead Parrot

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The trend of not owning things you thought you bought is continuing.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/6/21127243/tesla-model-s-autopilot-disabled-remotely-used-car-update
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-removes-autopilot-features-from-customer-1841472617?rev=1580941196331
Cliff notes: Dealer buys Model S direct from Tesla at auction(previously returned lemon law car). At the time, the car had Autopilot and Full Self Drive enabled. Dealer sells car with features advertised to customer. After sale to customer, Tesla performs an 'audit' of car prior to a remotely pushed software update. After the update, both autopilot and Full Self Drive features were disabled. Tesla claims reason for disabling features was customer never paid for them.
 

Thunderdolt

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This is pretty standard for Tesla. It's a bit of a wonder how they survive so many screwups like this.
 

Grimlaking

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I bet Tesla doesn't respond and this person is SOL. If I were them I would hire a lawyer to recoup those costs. (If they have a lawyer service through their employer.)
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I hate the business model of selling software unlocks.

If you don't want to include everything with your product, then ohsycially remove it before selling it.

This ought to be law.

More than this though, this is a bait and switch.

Someone screwed up. If the consumer was advertised a feature for a given price, it should be guaranteed to them. The dealer they bought it from or Tesla need to resolve this. I'd take them to small claims court if they didn't.
 

Thunderdolt

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I bet Tesla doesn't respond and this person is SOL. If I were them I would hire a lawyer to recoup those costs. (If they have a lawyer service through their employer.)
Because this was "found" via a larger scale audit, my hunch is that there are probably going to be others who have the exact same thing happen. This may grow to class action status.
 

btgorman

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Based on replies in this thread, it would seem that software does not have value.

Just because something is not a piece of material that you can touch does not mean that someone didn’t put work into constructing that something that you find useful and valuable. Actual labor and funding goes into stuff like intellectual property you know.

I think this topic bears some actual discussion instead of knee jerking. Like, what might this cost Tesla? Rootkit their cars for free features?
 

Thunderdolt

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Based on replies in this thread, it would seem that software does not have value.

Just because something is not a piece of material that you can touch does not mean that someone didn’t put work into constructing that something that you find useful and valuable. Actual labor and funding goes into stuff like intellectual property you know.

I think this topic bears some actual discussion instead of knee jerking. Like, what might this cost Tesla? Rootkit their cars for free features?
Not sure if you posted in this thread on purpose. This is a thread about Tesla removing a feature that the customer had paid for. Which thread were you looking for?
 

Meeho

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Based on replies in this thread, it would seem that software does not have value.

Just because something is not a piece of material that you can touch does not mean that someone didn’t put work into constructing that something that you find useful and valuable. Actual labor and funding goes into stuff like intellectual property you know.

I think this topic bears some actual discussion instead of knee jerking. Like, what might this cost Tesla? Rootkit their cars for free features?
False advertising, and bait and switch also have value. For the assholes that do them.
 

Lakados

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Story is a little more complex than not but it looks like the used car dealer in question didn't do his homework and the buyers of the cars are the victims as a result.
Tesla sold car with features, car lemon lawed so tesla bought back car with all features, car then sold at auction auction showed original sticker which had those extra features that Tesla had since purchased back. Used car dealer sees feature go away after update, assumed it was a software bug and sold car to person, person later finds out it was not a software glitch but a proper removal because Tesla had since pulled that feature off as it was no longer registered to that vehicle but the new one the lemon was originally replaced with. This is a case of used car dealers being used car dealers, and not knowing how to deal with software licenses.
 

Jagger100

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I hate the business model of selling software unlocks.

If you don't want to include everything with your product, then ohsycially remove it before selling it.

This ought to be law.
It would be more expensive to set things up like this. It's possibly cheaper to put sensors in all cars and turn them on in half the cars than have sensors in only half the cars. Counter-intuitive but mass production is wacky like that.
 

Meeho

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This is a case of used car dealers being used car dealers, and not knowing how to deal with software licenses.
How was it their fault? Tesla sold them the car with the features advertised.
 

Meeho

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The used car dealer didn't buy it from tesla they bought it at auction.
An auction by Tesla!!!


"Alec (I’ll withhold his last name for privacy reasons) bought a 2017 Tesla Model S on December 20 of last year, from a third-party dealer who bought the car directly from Tesla via auction on November 15, 2019. The car was sold at auction as a result of a California Lemon Law buyback, as the car suffered from a well-known issue where the center-stack screen developed a noticeable yellow border.

When the dealer bought the car at auction from Tesla on November 15, it was optioned with both Enhanced Autopilot and Tesla’s confusingly-named Full Self Driving Capability; together, these options totaled $8,000. You can see them right on the Monroney sticker for the car:"

xgf198y8hdt4ewiaku2y.png
 

vegeta535

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Not sure if you posted in this thread on purpose. This is a thread about Tesla removing a feature that the customer had paid for. Which thread were you looking for?
The customer in question payed for the feature sure. Just didn't pay Tesla for it. I agree it is bull shit and Tesla needs to fix this. The dealer needs to take responsibility and talk with Tesla. They have too cause this will hurt the dealership bin the long run when it happens again. Since it is Tesla it is very likely they will do it again. I honestly don't get the love for Tesla's to begin with. They are ugly and expensive to repair outside the warranty. Sure the performance is there if you spring for the performance models but nothing beats the rumble of a V8.
 
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Thunderdolt

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Story is a little more complex than not but it looks like the used car dealer in question didn't do his homework and the buyers of the cars are the victims as a result.
Tesla sold car with features, car lemon lawed so tesla bought back car with all features, car then sold at auction auction showed original sticker which had those extra features that Tesla had since purchased back. Used car dealer sees feature go away after update, assumed it was a software bug and sold car to person, person later finds out it was not a software glitch but a proper removal because Tesla had since pulled that feature off as it was no longer registered to that vehicle but the new one the lemon was originally replaced with. This is a case of used car dealers being used car dealers, and not knowing how to deal with software licenses.
You're leaving out a couple of important details here:
1) the auction was run by Tesla. This was not a third party auction.
2) Tesla presented the original sticker to the dealer prior to the sale. The dealer then paid for the car based on the stated feature set.

Regardless of whether or not Tesla defrauded the dealer, the simple fact remains that the car had the features when it was sold to the dealer. At this point, Tesla no longer owned the car. If they remembered that this car had gold bricks in the trunk, too bad - they don't own the car any more.

This is no different than your GPU maker disabling half the cores in your card because, after you have bought the card used, they decided that they still own the card and can do with it as they please.
 

Lakados

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You're leaving out a couple of important details here:
1) the auction was run by Tesla. This was not a third party auction.
2) Tesla presented the original sticker to the dealer prior to the sale. The dealer then paid for the car based on the stated feature set.

Regardless of whether or not Tesla defrauded the dealer, the simple fact remains that the car had the features when it was sold to the dealer. At this point, Tesla no longer owned the car. If they remembered that this car had gold bricks in the trunk, too bad - they don't own the car any more.

This is no different than your GPU maker disabling half the cores in your card because, after you have bought the card used, they decided that they still own the card and can do with it as they please.
United Traders purchased the car after the repairs were done by tesla, United traders then put the car up for action where the used car dealer purchased it.
 

Meeho

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United Traders purchased the car after the repairs were done by tesla, United traders then put the car up for action where the used car dealer purchased it.
No, the United Traders purchased the car at an auction held by Tesla and then resold the car to the current owner.
 

Lakados

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No, the United Traders purchased the car at an auction held by Tesla and then resold the car to the current owner.
Well then I completely misunderstood this and WTF Tesla...
I'm sure it will get rectified eventually but that is a bitch, somebody at sometime fucked up somewhere and Tesla should just eat this for the bar PR alone.
 

Meeho

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Well then I completely misunderstood this and WTF Tesla...
I'm sure it will get rectified eventually but that is a bitch, somebody at sometime fucked up somewhere and Tesla should just eat this for the bar PR alone.
Yeah, the story (as reported!) looks like a really scummy move by Tesla.

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-removes-autopilot-features-from-customer-1841472617
"The dealership, United Traders, reached out to me to add some details and more information about the sale of the Tesla and what they knew of its features at the time of the sale:"

I saw the Tesla story blowing up on your website and a few others as well. We are the dealership (United Traders) that sold the Tesla to Alec B_____.
I bought that vehicle personally, and used the full self drive on it multiple times. It was working fine. One day, a random message popped up saying your autopilot has been upgraded after a software update. Then it disappeared. I figured it was a glitch. I already had an agreement with Alec to purchase the vehicle.
He did come and test drive it a few days later, and we both agreed it was a technical difficulty or bug that would be fixed by next software update. Since then Tesla has been of no assistance to him, and I have been doing my best to get him some help in this case.
I sell dozens of Teslas a year, and sold my father in law a Model X P90D with ludicrous speed package. 60 days after the purchase of the car, Tesla removed his ludicrous speed package. Upon complaints to them they said he never paid for it. We have video evidence and multiple pictures of the vehicle with it. They even removed the line under the P90D. I am still shocked at these acts.
 

Lakados

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So apparently the software licensing is non transferable, so if User A buys a Tesla, sells the Tesla and later rebuys a new Tesla not only does the original vehicle loose the license but User A has to buy another license for the new vehicle as well. It's supposedly in the fine print. It's shitty in the car market to be doing this, that is completely unheard of, Software world it is the new normal and I hate it.
 

Meeho

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So apparently the software licensing is non transferable, so if User A buys a Tesla, sells the Tesla and later rebuys a new Tesla not only does the original vehicle loose the license but User A has to buy another license for the new vehicle as well. It's supposedly in the fine print. It's shitty in the car market to be doing this, that is completely unheard of, Software world it is the new normal and I hate it.
That's just...wow! Do they make you peel off the optioned paint job as well?
 

Thunderdolt

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I'm sure it will get rectified eventually but that is a bitch, somebody at sometime fucked up somewhere and Tesla should just eat this for the bar PR alone.
This happens with surprising frequency with Tesla. Tesla typically does not resolve these problems.
 

Azrak

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According to the OP, this was a lemon law car. I wonder if the original software features on the lemon law car were moved from it to the new car that replaced it so the owner of the lemon law car could get the same features on the replacement car without Tesla "losing money" (ie. enabling autopilot on both cars when it was only paid for on one car). Now the lemon law car, which is the subject of this thread, no longer has the extra software features; it's just a base car again. Lemon law car gets auctioned, but someone at Tesla (so this is definitely on them) didn't remove the software features from the window sticker and auction listing, so everyone (original auction buyer, used car dealer, and customer) thought the lemon law car still had those software features (which it technically did until the software update removed them).

In the old days, a lemon law car with air conditioning would get replaced with a new car with air conditioning (so the buyer is made whole and gets what they originally paid for), but the lemon law car would not have the air conditioning removed because it wasn't worth it. But now, removing a feature is just a single bit flip in a software update, so Tesla can remove features under these conditions. I'm sure there is no law preventing it, so they do it.
 

dgz

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Can you not buy just the car without all these services?
 

Grimlaking

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Can you not buy just the car without all these services?
They covered that in the article. You should read it... but to save you from the INSANE amount of adds.

No you can't and yes they still charge you for them.
 

TheBuzzer

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so what is the license tied to?
if a person bought a tesla with all the features and want to buy a new tesla will all the features be able to transfer to the new one without having to rebuy it?

or is it the license is tied per hardware and user. so each user that uses the tesla of the same car would need to buy the features?

so like two people are driving the same car, profile 1 and profile 2 needs to buy the features?

seems so crazy and insane.
 

chili dog

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Just wait until all cars are like this. It should come as no surprise that governments are pressing high tech electric cars across the globe. Once the car is synced with your government social credit profile the possibilities are endless. Gps tracking, facial recognition of driver and passengers, monitoring the weight of driver and passengers, fingerprint locks/ignition, all monitored by the government and big tech. Didn't pay your taxes on time? Weight gain? Smoking in the car? Frequent the gun range? Visiting websites which don't stick to the approved narrative? Posting "offensive" content online? Your car's range is remotely limited like a perimeter fence, the cost of a recharge is increased for just you, or your car is remotely locked down temporarily or bricked.
 
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