Tekken Boss Blames Denuvo for Causing Performance Issues in Fighter

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Apr 14, 2018.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,204
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Producer Katsuhiro Harada has admitted that Denuvo is the cause of recent performance issues in Tekken 7: for whatever reason, the anti-tamper tech results in frame drops after certain attacks. While the problem will be patched soon, it is good fodder for those who regularly decry the middleware.

    And this is precisely why developers should avoid using the Denuvo anti-tamper tech. We are certain that both Bandai Namco and Denuvo will be able to resolve this issue, however once has to wonder whether such performance issues are also present in other, more CPU-heavy games, like Assassin’s Creed Origins, and whether these games would ran better without it.
     
  2. M76

    M76 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,957
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    There are no free meals. The more and more complex checks you're doing the more effort will it take.
     
  3. Ebernanut

    Ebernanut Gawd

    Messages:
    835
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    This isn't the first time a dev has admitted that denuvo was causing performance issues and that's not the sort of thing that they like to admit, I imagine the problem is much more prevalent than the denuvo proponents would like us to believe.
     
  4. blkt

    blkt Gawd

    Messages:
    593
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    I have a lot of respect for Katsuhiro Harada; he just leveled up in my mind. This is one those problems that are difficult to reproduce (with the exception of projectile moves) and gamers have been complaining about stuttering, frame drops etc since launch. Attempts were made to work around the problem with different settings within the game or from Scalability.ini (or disabling SLI if applicable) but I am glad the problem is being addressed for people who paid for the game. Edits are for sentence flow and clarity, additional info in parenthesis.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  5. Simmonz

    Simmonz 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,579
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Start sucking on Denuvo and you may not like what you have to swallow.
     
    Darth Kyrie, dvsman and Master_shake_ like this.
  6. trparky

    trparky Gawd

    Messages:
    629
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Um... like no shit, Sherlock. I could've told you that!
    I'm going to guess that if Assassin’s Creed Origins didn't have that garbage heap that is Denuvo behind it the game would probably run nearly 45% faster and not only that but require far less processor power to run the game. But you know... us here and at other forums like it probably already knew that.
     
  7. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ Little Bitch

    Messages:
    6,551
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    who da thunk it?

    legit owners getting fucked by bad decisions.

    i bet the pirated copy will be better.
     
    Darth Kyrie, dvsman and DrezKill like this.
  8. blkt

    blkt Gawd

    Messages:
    593
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    It is better.

    It is difficult to convince some people as they will simply criticize your setup because they do not experience the problem themselves. Blame is too easily shifted towards hardware, install of windows, drivers, background services/apps/processes, game configuration, gpu control panel settings etc. You know, the typical "no problems here must be you" mentality runs its course.

    Now that I've actually read Harada's recent tweets and the responses it seems like the problem did not become obvious or apparent to him until the most recent updates. Before I thought he was just playing silent or oblivious because of pressure from the publisher. Hm, maybe no level up for Harada. There always seems to be some sort of issue with their patches too, unrelated to performance or Denuvo, as if there isn't enough (or any) testing.

    LOL Harada just referenced Biff Tannen and now there is a discussion about adding BTTF characters.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
    SvenBent, Revdarian and Master_shake_ like this.
  9. theBrownLlama

    theBrownLlama Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    343
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    prob these companies has signed on a deal with Denuvo and VMprotect to protect their games for a 5 years package or something, considering how licensing usually works.
     
  10. Azphira

    Azphira [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,656
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    I'm finding some games lately breaking because you exponentially exceed recommended requirements. I guess you're supposed to play it on a potato pc to match the potato console the game was ported from.
     
  11. blkt

    blkt Gawd

    Messages:
    593
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    This is poor programming, even ALLEYCAT.EXE from the mid-1980's (designed for what...a 286 at 4MHz?) runs properly on a P3 1GHz. I never thought we'd reach a point in the future where, again, we would need to downclock or limit through the use of software. Report the bugs. Edit: I forgot to mention Tekken 7 arcade runs on PC hardware; you can see the Windows 7 logo upon boot. It is not a port.

    I feel Tekken 7 to be very well written in general with the exception of "Anti-tamper 3rd party middleware" (lol Harada couldn't say DRM, at least he later admitted it was Denuvo after someone tried to defend and deny). Though I do think there is a lack of QA on the patches, as there is a bit of bug whack-a-mole going on, maybe this will clear up soon.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  12. blkt

    blkt Gawd

    Messages:
    593
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    There was a 94mB update just recently; projectile frame drops (Eliza/Akuma/Geese) should be fixed now.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  13. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

    Messages:
    10,380
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Because Denuvo *isn't* DRM. It's anti-tamper.

    Steam = DRM, UPlay = DRM, Origin = DRM. Denuvo/VMProtect are designed to prevent or delay thieves from modifying the game executable so that the DRM can't be bypassed.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  14. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

    Messages:
    10,380
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Nope. Every time a Denuvo protected game has been re-issued with denuvo removed, performance and benchmarks remained exactly the same. Pirates and pro-piracy blogs would be screaming it from the rooftops if there ever were a demonstrable performance disparity.
     
  15. Armenius

    Armenius [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    13,936
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Will be? The game came out on PC June 2, 2017.
     
  16. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    15,732
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    I'm willing to believe Harada, but I wonder if its a problem with how they decided to implement Denuvo that is causing the issue. If they make the game work fine without removing Denuvo then I think I'd definitely lean towards them messing up its implementation, if they remove it and the game magically works better then that provides a fairly interesting case study,
     
    blkt likes this.
  17. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ Little Bitch

    Messages:
    6,551
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Well then there you go.
     
  18. blkt

    blkt Gawd

    Messages:
    593
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    You can't deny it, Denuvo is both and you know it. Yes I understand implementation for each game can be different and maybe Tekken is only utilizing the anti-tamper portion, but your claims are a little out there unless you happen to be buddies with the development team. Edit: We both don't know and shouldn't claim either way, so aside from Steam's additional layers this conversation is moot. I understand your point; he did only mention the anti-tamper.

    Really? Every time? Blanket statements like that are so believable. Let's ignore all the people having stutter or frame drop problems since launch, and those who have verified their performance problems went away after comparing a "clean" executable to the same version/build. Let's ignore Katsuhiro Harada too; he's full of it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018