Tabletop Tablets Are Putting Waiters’ Jobs at Risk

[Joust]

So, I always tip with the sole exception being if my service was so fundamentally bad - and I don't mean just not great, or only medicore - that I feel the need to voice my opinion. The alternative is talking to a manager or something. Out of the many, MANY times I eat out in the course of a year, that might happen once or twice.

Most these guys are just trying to live like everyone else. It's funny how many people that are all rah rah rah about idealism fail to extend a hand to the person immediately in front of you, working for you just trying to make you happy.

I guess it's easier to get behind that banner when taking no personal responsibility for making lives better.

 

[nutzo]

Between those 2 factors I don't see any reason tipping would change in the USA for a very long time the consumers aren't even in the equation.

Tipping will likely end when the waiters are replaced with robots.

Of course then there will likely be a different form of tipping

 

[Joust]

Tipping will likely end when the waiters are replaced with robots.

Of course then there will likely be a different form of tipping

"Prioritize my order, and I'll leave you 10cc of the good stuff - pure Dino. Undiluted."

 

[Staples]

I give 2$ max per person regardless of the bill. Their service is worth nothing to me so I think I am generous. The dishwasher and the cook deserve my tip and I wish I had the option to tip them. I stick to places that are self serve since I think tipping waiters is such bullshit.

 

[termite]

I give 2$ max per person regardless of the bill. Their service is worth nothing to me so I think I am generous. The dishwasher and the cook deserve my tip and I wish I had the option to tip them. I stick to places that are self serve since I think tipping waiters is such bullshit.

There used to be a fantastic Chicken and Waffle restaurant in downtown Columbus Ohio called Double Comfort where you could send a beer back to the cooks. Not a money tip, but I thought it was awesome.

 

[N4CR]

Oh, the stories I could tell you.

Please, pretty please do. I saw some amazing ones from there on the old /r/FPH and /v/FPH lol.
One being that calling it a 'corral' is highly accurate to describe many of the patrons' size..

As a non-burger, hearing you have things such as pic related (the hallowed golden deity) was staggering to say the least.. holy crap, I didn't know these existed, let alone the things that could be done to it by children and disgusting people.

On the subject of tipping, I've been lucky enough to visit over 20 countries in my life. Asia, EU, Oceania, etc and 90-95%+ of them do not tip. If staff is particularly good, depending on country and place I will from time to time tip (where not required or recommended), although I hate the idea of forced tipping (that's just management being cheap fuckers - gosh the costs must be lower in USA for food service employees..), using it in cases where it's well deserved I see no problem.

 

[Olle P]

... The problem is that at the end of your meal the devices are used to rate the waiters, and if you give a waiter anything less than 5 stars out of 5, e.g. 4 which is "very satisfied", but not "completely satisfied", then the scoring system considers the waiter to be HITLER, ...

Exactly! Misuse of the gathered feedback is the problem, not the tech.

I see this tech being a huge win for all involved if used correctly.
* Guests that know what they want to eat can place their orders swiftly.
* Waiters can spend more time helping other customers decide what to order.
* The feedback, when used properly, will help showing areas of problem. (Less tasty dishes, slow service, etc.)

The tech used by one restaurant in my town is to have an app for smartphones that the customers are supposed to use for ordering and payment. To me that's a reason not to go eating there...

 

[haz_mat]

The managers already know who the bad waiting staff is, this just makes it easier to cut them loose.

I am far more concerned by the fact that every table in the restaurant has a surveillance device.

 

[Cherub]

The complaint about the survey system has nothing to do with using tablets, as written surveys would not work any differently.

Every time I read about some automated system supposedly putting people out of work, it strikes me as anti-progress or even regressive. First of all, there are plenty of new (and better) jobs created in the tech sector, including upkeep and upgrades, when systems are automated, and efficiency is almost always increased.

Second, people will use whatever they prefer--if the automated, non-human version is sufficiently better than the human version for a large portion of users, then the human version needs to adapt. Especially in the U.S., there are many weird, antiquated, and backward ways of doing things in restaurants, supermarkets, etc. that just waste time and energy, mostly to keep people employed doing things that I suspect most people don't want but are forced to deal with. I know there are some people, particularly the elderly and people who like to feel "waited on", but most of it feels like forced inefficiency to maintain low-end jobs artificially. In restaurants, simply offering a way to summon waitstaff is a huge improvement. Instead of interrupting me for no reason and making me find or flag waitstaff when I do need something, just let me tell them when I need something--everyone wins in that scenario. There are plenty of things that real people are needed for, but definitely not everything, including ordering and paying the bill.

 

[raz-0]

Normally I'd say "well do a better job then" but it is true that a lot of people will blame the server for things completely out of their control like the kitchen staff being completely incompetent.

You don't even need to go that far. A customer can be completely satisfied and just not parse the concept of a 5 point scale in the same pathological way that all these survey metrics companies presetn them.

To most people, there are at least three levels of performance. Bad, good enough, and exceptional. Fromt he survey companies' perspective theres, adequate and utter failure.

At this point I refuse any of these surveys with the exception of buying cars. At which point I'll simply promise fives across the board if we can speed this bullshit up and reach an amenable conclusion.

 

[Gweenz]

And yet they still will receive minimum wage per the law. No one is forcing them to have a serving job. They chose this profession for the chance of a better wage. This is the reason it is more coveted than say a fast food job. I'm sure some will make the argument that's the best job they can get. Ok, but how is that anyone else's problem but their own? Is it the business owners fault for creating the job? They did not force anyone to apply for the job but when they did I'm sure they signed something, before ever starting the job, stating what the wage would be. The job will only be there as long as it is profitable for the owner. If the minimum wage jumps to $15, or whatever people are asking for now, and causes the business models to become unprofitable do you believe these owners are going to keep going out of the goodness of their hearts to provide jobs? I doubt it.

Lol, JUST LOL if you think any restaurant has ever made up for them not making minimum wage. I've never ever seen it happen. Know what the restaurants do? They enter tips that never happened to get that employee up to minimum wage.

Just go on keep justifying your shitty attitude (no one has a gun to their head hurr durr) and being a cheapass. They are just people and they are being taken advantage of. Take it out on the business and the owner, or STAY HOME. Trust me, you've already got the reputation as a non tipper and servers remember that. I bet you get really bad service.

 

[Gweenz]

Also stop lumping all servers together. GOOD servers at fine dining places make shitloads of money. Some deserve it, some don't. Poor servers who get stiffed and verbally abused by patrons at shit chain restaurants don't make that much and wind up alcoholics.

I've been watching Kitchen Nightmares lately to remind me why I got out of that industry and will never go back. I can tell you from working at several restaurants that the business owners on that show are typical. They are the norm. Restaurant owners are by and large some of the worst people on the planet.

 

[1_rick]

Lol, JUST LOL if you think any restaurant has ever made up for them not making minimum wage.

Thanks! I am glad to get an answer on this. Frankly, it's what I expected, but having never been a waiter, I had no idea. Also, I figure it would be a bad thing to ask while out eating, and I don't know any waiters I could ask away from their jobs.

 

[BB Gun]

Data mining done wrong by corporate chain management, whodathunkit?

I LOL at the outrage at tipping culture - "HOW DARE YOU ask that I pay the person DIRECTLY providing me service any DIRECT payment. MAKE ME PAY THE MIDDLEMAN!" smh...

From a friend who runs a place in St. Louis, when we were talking about tipping on another (closed) board:
TLDR: no tipping = higher food prices, fewer employees, lower employee wages, and worse service

There's a TON of other posts where he talks about regulations, pay, shady restaurant/bar owners, frustration at the laws he follows and the lack of enforcement on others that don't follow the law, but the one below is the best summary of the tipping issue.

On Tipping:

Many view tipping as subsidized wages (why don't them thar greedy owners pay their people MOAR!). As tipping culture exists now, it is actually subsidized food prices, not wages. The reality is that all costs of a business are the burden of the customer (if they aren't you are now out of business, congratulations).

Why tipping culture is bad:

1) Discriminatory: It depends upon the establishment. If your joint is OK with women pushing their sexuality for tips then big tittied flirtatious blondes are going to make higher percentage tips. Our highest hourly tipped rate employee is actually male, in his mid 30's and bald as fuck. His hourly take with wages is around $40 an hour. If you are in the industry long term your goal is to build the skills (and yes, it's skilled work) to move up the ladder into better establishments.

2) Confusing: How much do I tip. Am I an asshole for not tipping (no, you are not. more on that in a second)

3) Low wages: Again, this depends upon where you work. If you work in a bad place, you aren't going to make much money. However, labor law dictates that if you make less than minimum wage in tips, the employer must make up the difference. So yes, all tipped employees are guarenteed at least minimum wage.

4) Demeaning: If you're working in a breastaurant (Hooters and the like) yup, it's demeaning. You are a soft porn food server. If you are good at what you do and skilled then tips are confirmation of that if you work at a decent place.

Why tipping culture is good:

1) Subsidized menu prices. The menu items are cheaper because of the tipping model. Some patrons don't tip, some grossly over tip. All together the average gratuity rate in my business is a tad over 19%. Because of the model, that burger and fries cost one patron only $9.50 and another patron $12.50. The value was determined by the patron. Patron B subsidized the cost of Patron A's meal. This increases the size of the market that can now afford to patronize your business.

2) Sales tax savings: Because menu prices are offset by tipping, you pay less sales tax.

3) Employer payroll tax savings: FoH staff doesn't report all of their tips. We encourage them to (ever want a loan? good credit rating? buy a car, a house?) but they just don't. That reduces payroll tax (which would ultimately be passed down to the customer).

4) High Wages: You might start out in a dive joint making jack shit, but you picked up skills and if you're good can climb the ladder into a better establishment.

5) Pay based on performance: Not all of my staff is equal. I've got staff members that can handle twice the volume of others on staff. Those staff members are obviously put on the busiest shifts and make more money. Don't feel bad for the off shift staff. Our lowest FoH employee's average hourly tip rate + wages is $25 an hour. They aren't stuck there either. They can move into the premium shifts by demonstrating that they can handle the volume while providing the same level of service.

30% of my FoH staff have bachelors degrees. Two have full time careers (That bald as fuck mid 30's guy? He installs enterprise servers during the day) the other is a social worker for distressed families w/ the state. Coincidentally, degreed bartenders are among the top volume FoH staff I have. I'm already not far off of $15 an hour with my BoH staff either. Pay range is currently $12-18 an hour in the BoH. The lowest paid employee in the business is me at around $7 an hour.

If tipping were abolished and minimum wage bumped to $15 an hour:

1) I would immediately lose my top 3 bartenders
2) The rest of the FoH staff would take a significant paycut
3) my customer base would shrink at higher menu prices
4) I would move less volume impacting my suppliers.

 

[SuperSubZero]

The tablets at the Olive Garden by me have a zillion stupid not-free games and junk on them. That stuff bothers me so much I don't use it for the practical things like paying the bill or calling the server. At the *very* least give me free solitaire or something. $4.99 for a few minutes of trivia? -Nooooooope-

 

[Gweenz]

Thanks! I am glad to get an answer on this. Frankly, it's what I expected, but having never been a waiter, I had no idea. Also, I figure it would be a bad thing to ask while out eating, and I don't know any waiters I could ask away from their jobs.

I've never actually seen anyone get reimbursed up to minimum wage, but have watched managers enter tips that never happened to avoid it. But even someone did get reimbursed it's still minimum wage which here in Wisconsin is a whopping $7.25...to have to deal with asshole customers and coked up incompetent ass-grabbing managers and a kitchen staff that is underpaid and ready to murder someone if they don't get their cigarette break.

 

[motomonkey]

most places that have these things don't let you order anything from the menu on them. its a limited thing like appetizers or reorder a drink refill.

I DO like being able to pay on these things. Sometimes you wait around forever to get the person to come back and take the check.

And you don't have to give a server your CC and have it leave your sight.

 

[Redleader]

Lol, JUST LOL if you think any restaurant has ever made up for them not making minimum wage. I've never ever seen it happen. Know what the restaurants do? They enter tips that never happened to get that employee up to minimum wage.

Just go on keep justifying your shitty attitude (no one has a gun to their head hurr durr) and being a cheapass. They are just people and they are being taken advantage of. Take it out on the business and the owner, or STAY HOME. Trust me, you've already got the reputation as a non tipper and servers remember that. I bet you get really bad service.

The law is the law. If they are not following it then someone, ie the employees, should report it. No one elses problem if they don't. How is it an attitude with understanding each person that took a server job understood how the wages worked up front and if they did not like it, why take the job? Please explain "take it out on the business and the owner".

 

[Deleted member 204526]

Humans seem intent on eliminating all interaction with other humans, which is strange considering we evolved as social creatures. Perhaps that's one reason mental illness is on the rise. We need those interactions, even the unpleasant ones.

 

[Staples]

Humans seem intent on eliminating all interaction with other humans, which is strange considering we evolved as social creatures. Perhaps that's one reason mental illness is on the rise. We need those interactions, even the unpleasant ones.

You are right. I don't mind cashiers. In fact I prefer them. I hate self serve checkout. Something never works and it takes longer usually.
I hate those kiosk at McD that they force you to use and their mobile app sucks (but I use it because there is always a $2 off $10 coupon). (both always take much longer to order from).
I hate waiters because you are expected to tip for something I'd rather do myself.

Not everyone wants to eliminate human jobs to avoid interaction. In fact, when people even state this is the reason they hate cashiers, I do a double take. I find it a shitty reason just like changing into a non believer because God took your relative. Terrible reason for your stance.

 

[DejaWiz]

Since these came to a few restaurants a few years back in my area (like Red Robin), I've seen the good restaurants utilize their waitstaff more effectively...taking care of other tables for things like prompt drink refills, appetizer deliveries, extra napkins, etc WHILE customers at other tables are using the Ziosk tablets to do things like order appetizers or pay their bills.

I've also seen poor restaurants utilize their waitstaff to constantly run over to tables after customer use the tablets to keep checking "just wanted to make sure you ordered that and it's what you want", which takes up a lot of time away from taking care of those refills and deliveries...

 

[1_rick]

If they are not following it then someone, ie the employees, should report it.

That's easy to say, not so easy to do. I've been in a situation where people I know were injured due to company negligence, and refused to contact OSHA to report the company. Instead, in one case, she let herself be semi-crippled because she was afraid the company would get shut down temporarily or permanently and "it would be her fault" all those people would be out of work.

 

[rudy]

That's easy to say, not so easy to do. I've been in a situation where people I know were injured due to company negligence, and refused to contact OSHA to report the company. Instead, in one case, she let herself be semi-crippled because she was afraid the company would get shut down temporarily or permanently and "it would be her fault" all those people would be out of work.

You are right, people do all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. But we cant be all running around assuming the worst. Cause on the flip side their are also a million employees that a filing law suits, going on workmans comp, disability and everything else to game the system. I will also throw this out there, if you don't make enough tips to cover minimum wage, then every one involved is going to be happier if you don't work there. The owner probably isn't happy with your ability to sell food, you aren't happy with your wages, and the customer is likely not happy if they aren't tipping well. If this is happening to many people waiting then the business is probably headed for failure as the food or atmosphere or something else must be lacking in the establishment. In that case you should be looking for a job before all your coworkers are looking at the same time. The customer cannot and does not know which restaurants are being fair and which are abusing their employees, it is the employees job to report illegal activity. It cant work any other way.