System76 To Ship Pop!_OS on Future Products

And this is a HORRIBLE idea. This goes right back to my thread about forks of forks and shit.

This is completely unnecessary and they're not even doing it correctly which makes it even worse.

Look at this commit: https://github.com/system76/pop-gnome-shell/commit/10b75ae7d89a188a94517c72ef92c6d7b71a8f7b

They forked GNOME Shell to replace the built-in theme. WTF? Why? OMG...WHY!?

What they should be doing is enabling the GNOME Shell User Theme extension by default and configuring it that way.
 
Vermillion said:
And this is a HORRIBLE idea. This goes right back to my thread about forks of forks and shit.

This is completely unnecessary and they're not even doing it correctly which makes it even worse.

Look at this commit: https://github.com/system76/pop-gnome-shell/commit/10b75ae7d89a188a94517c72ef92c6d7b71a8f7b

They forked GNOME Shell to replace the built-in theme. WTF? Why? OMG...WHY!?

What they should be doing is enabling the GNOME Shell User Theme extension by default and configuring it that way.
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Well one positive is that you could always wipe the drive and install whichever distro you like. That's what I would be doing regardless as I prefer Mint with Cinnamon.
 
Simmonz said:
Well one positive is that you could always wipe the drive and install whichever distro you like. That's what I would be doing regardless as I prefer Mint with Cinnamon.
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And now that more information has come out from System76, because of the backlash against them doing this, we now understand what they are trying to do overall. Communication, Communication, Communication. They have to be very open and communicative about what they're plans are if they want the community to accept yet another fucking Ubuntu fork.

For the commit I posted earlier they're not forking Gnome Shell itself to theme the desktop as the commit implies. They're forking it it order to theme GDM as there is no extension in order to theme the login manager by default. For those who don't understand why that's needed: when you use Gnome and GDM you actually have two gnome shell sessions going. One session runs the login screen and one session runs the desktop. Stupid but that's just how it is.

So hopefully from here on out System76 is a little more communicative with what they're planning and why they want to do it. System76 also needs to be very mindful of scope creep. They are a hardware company first so scope creep could crush them.
 
Wipe > Ubuntu MATE. Done.

Forks are just noise, you filter noise.
 
auntjemima said:
What if that voids the warranty like most other computer manufacturers?
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Technically I'm still using the same distro, I doubt it'll be an issue unless I specifically demand software support on an OS other than the distribution recommended by System76. Unlike Dell, who won't warrant a headphone jack because the user wiped Windows for Ubuntu - And that's no joke, they completely voided the warranty for a faulty headphone jack over the OS used and developer edition laptops aren't available globally.

Otherwise I can just install the DM of my choosing.

Having said that, considering the price of System76 laptops, I'll just stick with my heavily upgraded Presario CQ42.
 
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auntjemima said:
What if that voids the warranty like most other computer manufacturers?
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I don't see any part of their warranty it would void. If anyone sees otherwise feel free to correct me.


https://system76.com/warranty


BulletDust said:
Technically I'm still using the same distro, I doubt it'll be an issue unless I specifically demand software support on an OS other than the distribution recommended by System76. Unlike Dell, who won't warrant a headphone jack because the user wiped Windows for Ubuntu - And that's no joke, they completely voided the warranty for a faulty headphone jack over the OS used and developer edition laptops aren't available globally.

Otherwise I can just install the DM of my choosing.

Having said that, considering the price of System76 laptops, I'll just stick with my heavily upgraded Presario CQ42.
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I think the idea of a System76 laptop is that you're not paying a "Windows tax" where with many other brands you are. At the end of the day to each their own.
 
Simmonz said:
I think the idea of a System76 laptop is that you're not paying a "Windows tax" where with many other brands you are. At the end of the day to each their own.
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Don't get me wrong, I think what System76 are doing is fantastic and if I ever have a client that demands a Linux based laptop with warranty System76 is my first recommendation. Personally however, my needs surrounding a laptop aren't that demanding, in fact I really don't like using the damn things. I have my CQ42 that I've tweaked to hell and back, it gets dragged to and from jobs where I use it for work and apart from that I never turn it on.

It dual boots Windows 7 and Kbuntu 17.04, Windows 7 is rarely used except where absolutely necessary.
 
Simmonz said:
I think the idea of a System76 laptop is that you're not paying a "Windows tax" where with many other brands you are. At the end of the day to each their own.
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Windows brings only about 20 bucks extra cost to the machine so it's not really about money. The taxing part is just using windows and getting exposed to all the attacks.
 
B00nie said:
Windows brings only about 20 bucks extra cost to the machine so it's not really about money. The taxing part is just using windows and getting exposed to all the attacks.
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That's still $20 that is next to impossible to get back and buying a Linux laptop sends a message as well as help support those who contribute to the Linux community. Not saying I think people should have to buy a laptop that ships with Linux but I will when buying one.
 
Simmonz said:
That's still $20 that is next to impossible to get back and buying a Linux laptop sends a message as well as help support those who contribute to the Linux community. Not saying I think people should have to buy a laptop that ships with Linux but I will when buying one.
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You used to be able to get it back until MS changed their EULA.

Fact is, based on personal experience as a reseller for certain makes of laptop, wiping Windows completely and installing another OS entirely causes all sorts of issues with warranty even when obvious hardware issues are the cause of the problem - Personally, when selling devices to clients with their prefered OS installed, it's a risk I just cannot take without full support of the manufacturer.

When it comes to System76, the device already comes with Linux installed and based on what I read regarding System76 it's unlikely you will encounter any ridiculous cop outs regarding hardware warranty concerns, especially if you stick to an Ubuntu variant of your chosen OS.
 
Simmonz said:
Well one positive is that you could always wipe the drive and install whichever distro you like. That's what I would be doing regardless as I prefer Mint with Cinnamon.
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That kinda defeats the point of buying it though doesn't it? You buy the system 76 to have a good working experience out of the box. Other distros should run well but system76 could tweak an install(I haven't used one). I can only speak to the dell developer system. I have the current gen xps 13 one. It has a pretty stock ubuntu install and dell has been pushing their fixes back into the linux community so other distros should run fine on it and should have all of their fixes, just a little later. They do have some custom apps on the system to be able to pull down drivers if needed and for restoring it. I think on my xps 13 all of the drivers are the open source ones though. In theory though the dell updater could update firmware and other things if needbe. I know people in the past had issues running some non ubuntu based distros on their system 76 laptops as they needed to tweak them to get stuff working, my understanding is this isn't as big of an issue now.

KarsusTG said:
I would rather them just ship it with debian.
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Debian with a few custom changes to let it pull from non free sources and an app or two of their own like the dell ones about could be good. Ubuntu has gone off the rails a few times(good or bad). Sounds like they are worried about them. I think going to debain, mint, or even something like redhat would be a better choice.

Personally I think system 76 seems to be wanting to become an apple type company in a way. They have talked about 2018 coming out with custom hardware on the desktop side with laptops coming later. On one side I can see this as them trying to stand out which can be good. It could be very bad too. I kinda understand it as you don't want someone buying the exact same hardware cheaper using you as an example. On the notebook side it could mean nicer looking notebooks compared to the basic premade ones they have. I know there have been a lot of complaints on the build quality.
 
swatbat said:
That kinda defeats the point of buying it though doesn't it? You buy the system 76 to have a good working experience out of the box. Other distros should run well but system76 could tweak an install(I haven't used one). I can only speak to the dell developer system. I have the current gen xps 13 one. It has a pretty stock ubuntu install and dell has been pushing their fixes back into the linux community so other distros should run fine on it and should have all of their fixes, just a little later. They do have some custom apps on the system to be able to pull down drivers if needed and for restoring it. I think on my xps 13 all of the drivers are the open source ones though. In theory though the dell updater could update firmware and other things if needbe. I know people in the past had issues running some non ubuntu based distros on their system 76 laptops as they needed to tweak them to get stuff working, my understanding is this isn't as big of an issue now.
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I guess that would depend on the buyers reason for buying it. My reason for buying it would be so Microsoft wouldn't get one penny of my money so in my case how would wiping a System76 laptop and installing Mint defeat my purpose ?
 
Simmonz said:
I guess that would depend on the buyers reason for buying it. My reason for buying it would be so Microsoft wouldn't get one penny of my money so in my case how would wiping a System76 laptop and installing Mint defeat my purpose ?
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So this is the kind of thing that really grates me. You're always posting stuff about Steam's Linux efforts. Fine. So since Christmas with the Summer Sale going on I just topped $1k in Steam purchases since last Christmas. And gee, virtually none of what I bought was natively Linux compatible. And I get that I'm the fringe and all of that, but all I wanted to do was use my fucking computer and it seems like folks like you are more against that than Microsoft.
 
heatlesssun said:
So this is the kind of thing that really grates me. You're always posting stuff about Steam's Linux efforts. Fine. So since Christmas with the Summer Sale going on I just topped $1k in Steam purchases since last Christmas. And gee, virtually none of what I bought was natively Linux compatible. And I get that I'm the fringe and all of that, but all I wanted to do was use my fucking computer and it seems like folks like you are more against that than Microsoft.
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Go away.
 
I see no evidence that System76 are weary of Ubuntu, I believe they're just trying to market their lineup as more of a System76 'experience'.
 
Simmonz said:
I guess that would depend on the buyers reason for buying it. My reason for buying it would be so Microsoft wouldn't get one penny of my money so in my case how would wiping a System76 laptop and installing Mint defeat my purpose ?
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Why not just buy the notebook from the OEM maker or someone else reselling them and get it without windows? To be fair it has been a while but I know in the past you could buy the notebook cheaper elsewhere as a whitebox.

Windows is cheap enough to oems that the machines from a lot of vendors has been cheaper with it than with something else. So unless you are really that anti MS I don't know why you wouldn't price shop more to find something either cheaper or better quality.
 
heatlesssun said:
LOL! It's hypocritical how folks like you will praise Steam when so much of its money is derived from folks like me, there'd be no Steam without Windows users, but make sure Microsoft doesn't get a dime.
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Microsoft alienated Valve with its unfair business practices and made Valve worki constantly to break out of Microsoft dependency. So there, that's Steam for you.
 
heatlesssun said:
So this is the kind of thing that really grates me. You're always posting stuff about Steam's Linux efforts. Fine. So since Christmas with the Summer Sale going on I just topped $1k in Steam purchases since last Christmas. And gee, virtually none of what I bought was natively Linux compatible. And I get that I'm the fringe and all of that, but all I wanted to do was use my fucking computer and it seems like folks like you are more against that than Microsoft.
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What does that have to do with not wanting to buy software and their by support the company making it when you have zero intention of using that software ?

How does what he said have anything to do with your steam sale purchasing habits ? lol

IMO there are 2 very important reasons to buy a Linux pre-installed system regardless if you plan to stick to that specific distro

1) everything is linux tested and working.... if it works with the current LTS Ubuntu its going to work with the current LTS RHEL / SLES... of a rolling install of tumbleweed ect ect ect. Your not going to run into some piece of crap Wi Fi card or touch screen controller that was custom made for a windows only OEM and has some odd hardware ID or something that causes issues. (their are some windows oems like MS themselves that like to order X number of specific card from a company that is identical save for one reversed hex in a hardware header somewhere that makes the mfgs standard drivers a no go even in windows.... its BS industry politic stuff that you bypass by simply buying a Linux designed machine)

2) Ya why in the hell do I want to buy software I'm not planning to use and pay even $1 for it... never mind that the company selling it is likely one I hate with a passion. :)
 
swatbat said:
Why not just buy the notebook from the OEM maker or someone else reselling them and get it without windows? To be fair it has been a while but I know in the past you could buy the notebook cheaper elsewhere as a whitebox.

Windows is cheap enough to oems that the machines from a lot of vendors has been cheaper with it than with something else. So unless you are really that anti MS I don't know why you wouldn't price shop more to find something either cheaper or better quality.
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I guess you totally missed the point of sending a message? If everyone keeps buying from Microsoft (use it or not) nothing is going to change. It's completely jilted to have a market with practically no competition. People are getting literally buggered by Microsoft and they still keep buying.

I for one would never have Windows 10 unless I got it for free.

I have to make a confession: I booted up the Windows 10 a week ago saturday and played a couple of hours. Haven't repeated the mistake since though. I plead on being drunk.
 
B00nie said:
Microsoft alienated Valve with its unfair business practices and made Valve worki constantly to break out of Microsoft dependency. So there, that's Steam for you.
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I've spent close to $1k USD on Steam in just the last six months on games that are almost all only Windows compatible. If Steam doesn't want my business or that of Windows gamers, good luck to them. And to Linux gamers.
 
heatlesssun said:
I've spent close to $1k USD on Steam in just the last six months on games that are almost all only Windows compatible. If Steam doesn't want my business or that of Windows gamers, good luck to them. And to Linux gamers.
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No one cares how much you spent with Steam.

Go away.
 
heatlesssun said:
I've spent close to $1k USD on Steam in just the last six months on games that are almost all only Windows compatible. If Steam doesn't want my business or that of Windows gamers, good luck to them. And to Linux gamers.
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Thank you oh savior of the video game industry.

I bow to your greatness.

Clearly your wallet has made all the difference, praise oh thy windows user on highest.

I get your point though... I should also thank every f-face teenager that kicks the back of my seat for 2 hours every time I go to see a big budget hollywoo movie. Cause those assh*les wallets make everything possible. Without them RDJ would still be out of work, and I would be stuck watching master piece theater at home.
 
In the same way the Microsoft crusader intends to support the Microsoft gaming industry with his wallet, I intend to support the Linux gaming industry with my wallet - Why is that such a problem?

Is it because I'm capable of following my morals and the MS crusader is not?
 
ChadD said:
1) everything is linux tested and working.... if it works with the current LTS Ubuntu its going to work with the current LTS RHEL / SLES... of a rolling install of tumbleweed ect ect ect. Your not going to run into some piece of crap Wi Fi card or touch screen controller that was custom made for a windows only OEM and has some odd hardware ID or something that causes issues. (their are some windows oems like MS themselves that like to order X number of specific card from a company that is identical save for one reversed hex in a hardware header somewhere that makes the mfgs standard drivers a no go even in windows.... its BS industry politic stuff that you bypass by simply buying a Linux designed machine)
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That is not always true. I've read a bunch of complaints over the years of system 76 hardware not working correctly with other distros. Dell in the past has put their own drivers on developer systems to get them to work right. They still include an installer in case they need to replace a stock linux driver. I know someone who bought a system 76 lemur a year or so ago(not sure if it was the 2016 or 2015 model) and had to do a lot of tinkering to get it to work with a non ubuntu distro. I think it was issues with the function keys and with the wireless ac. I know the second gen of the Oryx pro(they now have a third gen where I think this is fixed) needed a driver for the touchpad. It isn't to say you can't get it to work, it is just that if you are going to tinker you can always look at other companies that have better products as far as quality.

I guess you are paying extra for an out of the box experience in many cases with system 76.

Don't take it as me really hating on them, overall I think they have been doing good at pushing forward for linux on the desktop. I personally think dell has some better options(and bought the xps 13 developer edition). I do think the custom OS is a bad idea. I'd rather them focus on expanding their config files to other distros. For what it is worth fedora at least in the past has been pretty fast at adding the dell fixes to their releases.
 
swatbat said:
That is not always true. I've read a bunch of complaints over the years of system 76 hardware not working correctly with other distros. Dell in the past has put their own drivers on developer systems to get them to work right. They still include an installer in case they need to replace a stock linux driver. I know someone who bought a system 76 lemur a year or so ago(not sure if it was the 2016 or 2015 model) and had to do a lot of tinkering to get it to work with a non ubuntu distro. I think it was issues with the function keys and with the wireless ac. I know the second gen of the Oryx pro(they now have a third gen where I think this is fixed) needed a driver for the touchpad. It isn't to say you can't get it to work, it is just that if you are going to tinker you can always look at other companies that have better products as far as quality.

I guess you are paying extra for an out of the box experience in many cases with system 76.

Don't take it as me really hating on them, overall I think they have been doing good at pushing forward for linux on the desktop. I personally think dell has some better options(and bought the xps 13 developer edition). I do think the custom OS is a bad idea. I'd rather them focus on expanding their config files to other distros. For what it is worth fedora at least in the past has been pretty fast at adding the dell fixes to their releases.
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Swatbat. I totally understand what you're saying, the issue for me is that Dell Developer Edition laptops are not available in my country. The only Dell available with Linux preinstalled is the top of the line Precision, worth mega dollars, and the average person off the street cannot order it directly from Dell.

For some of us, boutique suppliers like System76 are our only option if we want to retain some form of warranty. Just buying a Clevo laptop direct from the manufacturer is a mission for the average consumer and quite expensive.
 
Vermillion said:
yet another fucking Ubuntu fork
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this.png
 
I didn't even mean a clevo from them, I know a bunch of vendors have sold white box ones either complete or as a barebones kit over the years. Your point is well taken though.

I do kinda wonder how well the warranty on one of the boutique builders would work in another country. They are not going to have the repair network that the big guys have and shipping it back to another country will be a semi slow process at least compared to a local repair depot.

Sadly dell doesn't just provide their custom ubuntu installer for an easy download. I guess in theory you could have a bootable usb stick with a windows install on it to test them in windows to get a warranty claim in. Hell I've done that on windows installs as companies have said I need to factory restore a machine before they will replace hardware(usually on the consumer grade hardware side, the business support generally doesn't care). That or just lie and say I did. I've also used a bootable linux usb stick before to test stuff to see if the windows install was messed up.

Personally if I was in your case I'd prob figure out a lenovo, dell latitude/xps that has good support and just go that way. At least vs ordering a boutique from the US(unless you have an in country vendor that does the same thing). I kinda personally wish I went with a latitude over the xps although for the most part the xps works well. Ubuntu really doesn't like the high res screen and the scaling messes up from time to time. I also don't like the xps track pad but it is very thin(the notebook) so I kinda give it a pass.

As far as in this thread hearing about people complaining about the cost of windows being 20 bucks I guess I question the system 76 path if you are not going to use it. Just worked it up and the system 76 galago pro which looks like it is a Clevo N130BU with a few minor changes. You get the ubuntu key instead of a windows key(which I wish dell did with my xps as I think it is kinda cool) and it looks like it doesn't have the mmc slot(although the case has it marked it looks blocked off and isn't mentioned). I played with the specs some bumping it up on both rjtech(never have ordered from them) and system 76 to make it more usable(more ram, bigger hd). I don't know what ssd system 76 uses so I just matched the speed. The rj tech had faster memory but that isn't something anyone would notice. It is also worth saying that system 76 uses 2 memory sticks when you upgrade the memory where rj tech used one leaving the second bay for expansion.

The "linux or ubuntu tax" was over 50 bucks and the big difference to me was that the cheaper machine without linux was better because it leaves a memory slot open. Unless system 76 is using its own driver pack it wouldn't make a difference and even if they are swapping to another distro will give you the same problems on both. If you bought the system without the memory or hd installed I'm sure you could save more by price shopping although that goes in a different direction. Now you can argue that system 76 might handle the warranty better(they have someone else assembling their systems so who knows) and their support will be better if you run their stock os. I remember years ago it was actually cheaper to buy dells in many cases with windows instead of getting them with ubuntu or freedos instead. At that point why would I care if it comes with a windows license I wouldn't use? Hell if I decided to sell it in a year or two having the windows license would make selling it go faster.
 
swatbat said:
Personally if I was in your case I'd prob figure out a lenovo, dell latitude/xps that has good support and just go that way.
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There is no Dell or Lenovo with good support, as a reseller I've got into huge arguments with OEM's over this. The second you wipe that drive and install Linux in place of Windows, the OEM's use that as a reason to weasel their way out of supporting any form of hardware warranty.

You need a device that supports Linux from the onset.
 
BulletDust said:
There is no Dell or Lenovo with good support, as a reseller I've got into huge arguments with OEM's over this. The second you wipe that drive and install Linux in place of Windows, the OEM's use that as a reason to weasel their way out of supporting any form of hardware warranty.

You need a device that supports Linux from the onset.
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I was referring to good linux support. I've dealt with support issues in the US due to running linux and as long as it was a business machine it wasn't a big deal. You could as I said boot windows off a usb stick to test the hardware. I can't speak to your country but I can say that isn't an issue I've dealt with here in a very long time.

Also I got bored and tested another system 76 notebook. The gazelle looks like a clevo n850hz from a quick look. I threw together a matching config and it was an extra 85 bucks to get it through system 76 in the us. That's a pretty high tax to get linux preloaded if you are just going to delete it. I kinda suspect this to be a bigger issue as they roll their own and have more people that don't want to use it.
 
swatbat said:
I was referring to good linux support. I've dealt with support issues in the US due to running linux and as long as it was a business machine it wasn't a big deal. You could as I said boot windows off a usb stick to test the hardware. I can't speak to your country but I can say that isn't an issue I've dealt with here in a very long time.

Also I got bored and tested another system 76 notebook. The gazelle looks like a clevo n850hz from a quick look. I threw together a matching config and it was an extra 85 bucks to get it through system 76 in the us. That's a pretty high tax to get linux preloaded if you are just going to delete it. I kinda suspect this to be a bigger issue as they roll their own and have more people that don't want to use it.
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Don't forget, that $85.00 includes support via System76, that's pretty cheap support.

Where are you getting the prices of the Clevo's from?
 
BulletDust said:
Don't forget, that $85.00 includes support via System76, that's pretty cheap support.

Where are you getting the prices of the Clevo's from?
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rj tech(I said it in the first post comparing them). https://www.rjtech.com/

I've never used them, just knew of them(they have been around since like the 90s). I remember when sager was kinda the go to gaming laptop for many years ago there was a big argument to go with the clevo as it was just a rebrand and I think rj was where most people talked about.

As far as support I don't know how good system 76's support is going to be on a different operating system(in this case distro). I do know they will provide windows drivers if you request them but since they are just clevo white box machines with a button changed on the keyboard and their logo yea the windows drivers are there. As I said earlier I do know system 76 has released linux drivers in the past for systems so if you switched distros this could be an issue. System 76 doesn't assemble their systems or even image them now(I saw them talking about this on brian lundukes videos). Whoever they get the systems from assembles them and images them with the system 76 provided image. Now I'm not sure if all of their notebooks are clevo's or if they are going through a third party for this. Most of the notebooks look stock other than the logos thrown on the machine and keyboard. I know on the one I listed above it looks like they blocked off one of the usb card readers, they either custom ordered it without it or maybe blocked it off because it didn't work right in linux. Either way the printing on the case still showed in it their photos. I'm kinda wondering if they just go to the same repair facility as everyone else's rebranded clevo notebooks.

To me it is kinda weird to complain about paying for a microsoft os you are not going to use and then pay a vendor extra to load a linux install you are not going to use for those who don't like ubuntu or the future fork of it system 76 is doing. I just did those two price compares quickly but I'm guessing they are going to be more expensive on most if not all of them as they are pretty much just reselling a notebook someone else makes for them. I'm sure you could find some other vendors that will sell the same whitebox machine cheaper as well. If the system 76 version of the notebook runs without custom drivers than the whitebox one chances are will as well(again maybe a card reader or something the white box has will not). If system 76 was more than just a reseller(which it sounds like they are getting into with custom hardware for themselves) then sure.

Edit: I just looked at xotic pc who sells these as well. For the galago pro you could order it from them with windows home and still save 53 to 86 bucks(if you paid not using a credit card). I should have picked another model but if you drop windows it is like 150 bucks less for the same machine through them(again with 1 memory stick instead of two).
 
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swatbat said:
To me it is kinda weird to complain about paying for a microsoft os you are not going to use and then pay a vendor extra to load a linux install you are not going to use for those who don't like ubuntu or the future fork of it system 76 is doing.
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The issue is that you're very lucky to have a supplier in the US (I assume) that is willing to sell Clevo's let alone laptops with no OS installed, most of the time this isn't possible.

Personally I'd prefer to pay System76 to configure my device and provide support than pay Microsoft, it's a matter of morals and beliefs as I believe Microsoft needs some competition.
 
BulletDust said:
The issue is that you're very lucky to have a supplier in the US (I assume) that is willing to sell Clevo's let alone laptops with no OS installed, most of the time this isn't possible.

Personally I'd prefer to pay System76 to configure my device and provide support than pay Microsoft, it's a matter of morals and beliefs as I believe Microsoft needs some competition.
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I think rj tech will ship internationally. I'm sure in many other countries you could find someone that will sell them as well(or another white box). I guess I just don't get the lets not pay ms buy pay someone more for free software argument. As I pointed out earlier I could actually buy the same machine from xotic pc with windows and save money. I could save a good bit of money dropping the windows license which you can do through them. At that point you are not paying a MS tax vs someone like system 76, you are actually paying a linux tax. Now if you want to use the custom install they did great. I'm really talking about the talk earlier about paying extra to buy the machine with ubuntu from them(or pop soon) and erasing it to load something else. I fully get the paying extra for a working out of box experience, if you are not going to use that they why bother?

I'd love some good competition. I don't think system 76 is big enough to really push a custom distro to do it though. Now if they put that money into getting mint or elementary to work more with them I think they would be better off. I was kinda hoping purism was going to do better but the had goals that didn't seem doable including a free bios(although they claim to have gotten coreboot to run finally on the hardware). It is worth saying that the coreboot installer isn't available yet and still isn't the libre boot they want to get running(and they run a custom os as well).

I actually think the fragmentation of linux is one of its biggest problems. I also like the idea of ubuntu ditching their ui which I'm not a big fan of. I think a slightly modified debain install would be better or maybe mint rather than a new distro.
 
You can guarantee that System76 isn't big enough to provide any noticeable competition to MS, the fact remains that I would rather my money go to System76 and have them ensure hardware compatibility with WiFi/Bluetooth/etc. Than my money go towards a Microsoft licence. It's got nothing to do with the outlay, it's got everything to do with the fact that I don't want to support MS when I don't have to.
 
Took a look at that Pop-OS thing (yes I grabbed the ISO, praise some higher power for VMs) and my first impression is "Wow, it's the Linux equivalent of Microsoft Bob!" :D

I never though that dumbing down Linux for the masses has been or would be a good idea, now I'm absolutely certain of it, this continual fracturing and fragmentation will never actually help Linux gain traction. The only reason Linux gets most anywhere at all anymore on the desktop (or laptops) is there's more people owning computers than in the past.
 
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