Sweden Bans Hauwei from 5g Networks nationally

Even if there is no proof, their business history, and close ties to the government are enough to raise red flags. China's long-standing reputation for IP theft and industrial espionage does not help here either, the world is being forced to start dealing with what has been a blatant two decades of illicit activities from the Chinese tech sector. Many countries are being pressured by their industrial core to close off China's access because they fear their processes being stolen, duplicated, and having their entire business undercut. Which is a legitimate fear, outside of maybe India no other country can match China for low wage workers.

True story, back in the late 80's, early 90's Rio Tinto built an Aluminium smelter in China, it was behind schedule and over budget. The contractors were having problems where the workers would be there for a week or 2 then never come back, so it was causing huge delays, they eventually finished and all was well. Fast forward a few years and Rio Tinto starts getting reports from their equipment suppliers that their Chinese facility is calling them all the time because of failures and that they have exceeded their support contracts. Now Rio Tinto doesn't know what they are talking about the facility is running perfectly so they sent a team to investigate, turns out that China Aluminium had been poaching those missing contractors and used them to duplicate their work on the Rio Tinto site to build themselves a pair of new smelters. And they were calling for support on their cloned hardware trying to pass themselves off as the original.

Edit:
May have been Alcan, not Rio Tinto. But they merged so.... same difference?
 
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Lakados said:
May have been Alcan, not Rio Tinto. But they merged so.... same difference?
Click to expand...

You can literally replace those two names with tens or hundreds of thousands of names across every industry around the world. The Chinese have no shame about ripping off everything and making their own copies, they even do it for their domestic products in their own domestic market, often to the detriment of their own people. Just take the tainted infant milk powder scandal in 2008 with melamine.
 
Lakados said:
Even if there is no proof, their business history, and close ties to the government are enough to raise red flags. China's long-standing reputation for IP theft and industrial espionage does not help here either, the world is being forced to start dealing with what has been a blatant two decades of illicit activities from the Chinese tech sector. Many countries are being pressured by their industrial core to close off China's access because they fear their processes being stolen, duplicated, and having their entire business undercut. Which is a legitimate fear, outside of maybe India no other country can match China for low wage workers.

True story, back in the late 80's, early 90's Rio Tinto built an Aluminium smelter in China, it was behind schedule and over budget. The contractors were having problems where the workers would be there for a week or 2 then never come back, so it was causing huge delays, they eventually finished and all was well. Fast forward a few years and Rio Tinto starts getting reports from their equipment suppliers that their Chinese facility is calling them all the time because of failures and that they have exceeded their support contracts. Now Rio Tinto doesn't know what they are talking about the facility is running perfectly so they sent a team to investigate, turns out that China Aluminium had been poaching those missing contractors and used them to duplicate their work on the Rio Tinto site to build themselves a pair of new smelters. And they were calling for support on their cloned hardware trying to pass themselves off as the original.

Edit:
May have been Alcan, not Rio Tinto. But they merged so.... same difference?
Click to expand...

Rio Tinto doesn't seem to care. Guess who is Rio Tinto's largest shareholder and partner in their biggest project.

Businesses are not stupid. They are in China because the profit they gain is worth the potential IP loss.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
You can literally replace those two names with tens or hundreds of thousands of names across every industry around the world. The Chinese have no shame about ripping off everything and making their own copies, they even do it for their domestic products in their own domestic market, often to the detriment of their own people. Just take the tainted infant milk powder scandal in 2008 with melamine.
Click to expand...
It is in part a cultural issue. While cheating is frowned upon in Western society, and cheaters shamed, in China it is the cheated that are shamed for not being savvy enough. And its not just in industries, its pretty much universally expected that Chinese students will try to cheat on their exams, and its the responsibility of the schools to put in sufficient measures to stop it, but even that doesn't always work as recently Chinese students rioted en masse when anti-cheating measures were put in place with the students all openly chanting that they have a right to cheat. US university ethics committees have likewise reported a hugely disproportionate amount of cheating with foreign students from China. Lastly, this culture has even permeated their love lives, with an infidelity epidemic in China, with 60% of Chinese men cheating on their wives per tencent.

They are aware of the weakness of Western culture where they can exploit the "baizuo" which is what they call our left-wing population that are sensitive to any recognition of common cultural trends as being racist, and so can often quash any policies that recognize this issue by feigning outrage.
 
Jinto said:
Rio Tinto doesn't seem to care. Guess who is Rio Tinto's largest shareholder and partner in their biggest project.

Businesses are not stupid. They are in China because the profit they gain is worth the potential IP loss.
Click to expand...
No, asked my dad about the incident (He was one of the original project leads on the plant construction), they had expected it to some degree just not to that scale, they had planned to have their casting processes and possibly power phase designs and other procedural IP's stolen so they intentionally made sure that the plant was an older design but they never imagined that they would make a pair of cheap knockoffs of the entire facility.

Edit:
Also, it was Alcan at the time.
 
Lakados said:
No, asked my dad about the incident (He was one of the original project leads on the plant construction), they had expected it to some degree just not to that scale, they had planned to have their casting processes and possibly power phase designs and other procedural IP's stolen so they intentionally made sure that the plant was an older design but they never imagined that they would make a pair of cheap knockoffs of the entire facility.

Edit:
Also, it was Alcan at the time.
Click to expand...

I don't know how far your dad is up the food chain but management factors in the risk of IP theft and still choose to do business there. Management doesn't care and IP transfer is often an implicit part of the deal. Alcan kept investing a ton of money into China in the 90s and 00s until bought by Rio Tinto (who are investing even more). Fool me once...
 
Jinto said:
I don't know how far your dad is up the food chain but management factors in the risk of IP theft and still choose to do business there. Management doesn't care and IP transfer is often an implicit part of the deal. Alcan kept investing a ton of money into China in the 90s and 00s until bought by Rio Tinto (who are investing even more). Fool me once...
Click to expand...
China has the Bauxite... and they won’t buy Aluminum smelted out of country if they can source it in country first. Their China first policies are pretty clear cut.
 
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