Suspected Illegal "Largest" Ukraine Crypto Mining Farm was actually a FIFA bot farm on PS4s

kirbyrj

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https://gamerant.com/ps4-warehouse-fifa-ultimate-team-bot-farm-ukraine/

As it turns out, the crypto haters were wrong. Last weeks seizure of a suspected "crypto mining" operation was incorrect as no one was actually mining crypto.

The evidence suggests that the facility in Vinnytsia could have been a gaming bot farm rather than a crypto mining one. According to an investigative report by the Ukrainian business portal Delo.ua, the bot farm may have been used for grinding. That’s when gamers employ software to perform repetitive tasks in gameplay that reward the player with something valuable in the particular scenario like gaining experience points, for example, or raising a character’s level. The SBU declined to comment on the possible use of the hardware citing the ongoing investigation.

Delo is quoting an unnamed source from the SBU, who reportedly said that the Playstations were used for “pumping bots” for FIFA, EA Games’ famous soccer video game series. In FIFA’s popular Ultimate Team mode, gamers can gather a team of favorite players and compete against each other online.

They can either spend real cash on loot boxes that give them a limited chance of obtaining high-value cards, Eurogamer explains, or play for months in order to save enough FUT coins, the in-game currency, to spend on the FIFA auction house. It appears the PS4 consoles in the Ukrainian bot farm have been grinding to create accounts loaded with FUT money that can be subsequently sold to gamers, likely on the black market.
 

HeadRusch

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I picture a group of guys running an illegal FUT farm on PS4's meeting up on a cold, rainy night in some abandoned factory parking lot to square-off against the rival FUT farming club with Xboxes, calling each other cunts a lot and then brutally beating the life out of one another....because Futbol.....
 

sfsuphysics

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So something that's even more wasteful for economics, selling of virtual items in a video game. And no I don't want to get into a discussion about how if you pay for it that it's ok to do what you want.
 

DukenukemX

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To be fair, a bot farm for grinding in game crap sounds more stupid than crypto farming. Especially for an EA soccer game. If I were one of the Ukraine guys doing that operation and someone asked me what I was doing I would say crypto mining, just so the court room doesn't burst out laughing.
 
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kirbyrj

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To be fair, a bot farm for grinding in game crap sounds less stupid than crypto farming.

408884_365759483501779_1466929130_n.jpg
 

1_rick

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I picture a group of guys running an illegal FUT farm on PS4's meeting up on a cold, rainy night in some abandoned factory parking lot to square-off against the rival FUT farming club with Xboxes, calling each other cunts a lot and then brutally beating the life out of one another....because Futbol.....
You missed "faking a shot to the knee and taking a dive". Without that, it's not a good soccer analogy.
 

Ebernanut

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The original article said that they also seized 500 graphics cards and 50 processors as well so it sounds like it was probably a crypto farm too. It also only speculated(and stated as such) that was what the PS4s were being used for though they did spend a good bit of the article on that speculation.

This article is heavy in speculation too though and the basis for their conclusion is a quote from an unnamed source that they admit seems to have lost something in the translation. Personally I wouldn't put too much stock in either article.
 

M76

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Again, what are you on about? I said nothing about profits. I said cryptofarms serve a real purpose.
I'd love to hear that purpose. Sustaining the scheme is a self serving one, so that doesn't count.
 
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That's even better! I wonder if the cheating at sleazy gambling for children ROI is better than the mining ROI...
 

DukenukemX

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I'd like to know what bot tool is used on a PS4? Can you run a program on a PS4 while running a game? Is this an external tool that works outside of the PS4?
 
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I'd love to hear that purpose. Sustaining the scheme is a self serving one, so that doesn't count.
As always there’s no response. It’s a short sighted and selfish “get rich doing nothing” scheme to people in NA and EU.

Crypto does enable countries like Iran to bypass sanctions by converting energy into crypto currencies. Similarly China is poised to control over 45% of all BTC in the wild. That sure is decentralized and non-government. Of course none of the usual pro-crypto crowd here strike me as someone who even believes in the “fundamentals” of crypto - they’re just in it for the payout (no matter the cost to others).
 

M76

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As always there’s no response. It’s a short sighted and selfish “get rich doing nothing” scheme to people in NA and EU.

Crypto does enable countries like Iran to bypass sanctions by converting energy into crypto currencies. Similarly China is poised to control over 45% of all BTC in the wild. That sure is decentralized and non-government. Of course none of the usual pro-crypto crowd here strike me as someone who even believes in the “fundamentals” of crypto - they’re just in it for the payout (no matter the cost to others).
It's just their justification. "Look at all the good it can do, it's not a bad thing see!" Except they aren't using it for good but for making a quick buck without putting in work. It's not even the lack of work that bothers me, if you have a way to make a quick buck that is moral and isn't hurting anyone else, go right ahead. But cryptomining is the complete disregard for any consequences. The type of thing people used to bark at big corporations for. Except it turns out that given the opportunity the commoner is even more vicious in exploiting the environment.
 

Verado

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As always there’s no response. It’s a short sighted and selfish “get rich doing nothing” scheme to people in NA and EU.

Crypto does enable countries like Iran to bypass sanctions by converting energy into crypto currencies. Similarly China is poised to control over 45% of all BTC in the wild. That sure is decentralized and non-government. Of course none of the usual pro-crypto crowd here strike me as someone who even believes in the “fundamentals” of crypto - they’re just in it for the payout (no matter the cost to others).
Dude have you even noticed how much btc the chynese have dumped on the market after it was effectively banned in chyna?
Btc is currently om track to being green and western-controlled, which is long term bullish. Start DCA-ing or hfsp.
 

Verado

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Just to be clear: As tech-people you have been aware of, and bearish on this asset the entire period depicted in the attached picture, and you have never traded it and are now choosing the "higher moral ground" narrative to justify you failing to capitalize on it?
JFC how do you sleep at night without heavy sedation?
Screenshot_20210719-223315_Chrome.jpg
 

M76

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Just to be clear: As tech-people you have been aware of, and bearish on this asset the entire period depicted in the attached picture, and you have never traded it and are now choosing the "higher moral ground" narrative to justify you failing to capitalize on it?
JFC how do you sleep at night without heavy sedation?
View attachment 376617
I never traded it, and never will. I'm not going to even try to capitalize on something that is basically a doomsday weapon if left unchecked. And I made a point out of not supporting any company that even touches this shit.
I hate to break it to you, but there are still people who put other things before making a profit. You'll never see me scalping either, or do anything that is a morally questionable way to make money. And that is exactly why I sleep easy.
You are just proving the point that cryptopeople are completely oblivious to the potential long term consequences. Or worse don't give a frack about them.
 

kirbyrj

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I never traded it, and never will. I'm not going to even try to capitalize on something that is basically a doomsday weapon if left unchecked. And I made a point out of not supporting any company that even touches this shit.
I hate to break it to you, but there are still people who put other things before making a profit. You'll never see me scalping either, or do anything that is a morally questionable way to make money. And that is exactly why I sleep easy.
You are just proving the point that cryptopeople are completely oblivious to the potential long term consequences. Or worse don't give a frack about them.

But I guess it's okay to bot FIFA players on PS4's. After all that is what this thread is about not your nonsensical crusade against crypto.
 

Ebernanut

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But I guess it's okay to bot FIFA players on PS4's. After all that is what this thread is about not your nonsensical crusade against crypto.
Both are essentially useless wastes of energy and hardware as far as I'm concerned.

However as I mentioned before the article you posted is mostly speculation and they also seized 500 GPUs and 50 CPUs which supports the original articles claims that it was a crypto farm that was POSSIBLY using PS4s to mine as well. This one only adds the possibility that the PS4s were used for botting a game, the specifics are rather vague on this claim though.
 

kirbyrj

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Both are essentially useless wastes of energy and hardware as far as I'm concerned.

However as I mentioned before the article you posted is mostly speculation and they also seized 500 GPUs and 50 CPUs which supports the original articles claims that it was a crypto farm that was POSSIBLY using PS4s to mine as well. This one only adds the possibility that the PS4s were used for botting a game, the specifics are rather vague on this claim though.

There were 3,800 PS4s so some seven times as many as GPUs?... It is just as speculative to say it was about crypto mining. At least there is a source in the investigation claiming it was FIFA 21 related.

The whole point of the article originally was about stealing electricity. Then the anti-crypto people go crazy and start claiming environmental concerns, get rich quick schemes, etc. It's actually pathetic because it's in every single article that even fringley touches crypto.
 

noko

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There were 3,800 PS4s so some seven times as many as GPUs?... It is just as speculative to say it was about crypto mining. At least there is a source in the investigation claiming it was FIFA 21 related.

The whole point of the article originally was about stealing electricity. Then the anti-crypto people go crazy and start claiming environmental concerns, get rich quick schemes, etc. It's actually pathetic because it's in every single article that even fringley touches crypto.
I guess everyone has a right to their opinion, how ever messed up it may be or generalized to point of being non-sensical. I wished the article, journalist found out how this one place was able to get of hold of 3800 PS4's, when etc. I get the suspicion electricity was not the only thing stolen.

People throughout history, regardless of facts, have always it seems tried to paint a blame onto something or someone or group for their problems or why the world does not conform to their sense of perfection that only they can see and know. While being hypocritical, blatantly at times and blind to it.
 

Ebernanut

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There were 3,800 PS4s so some seven times as many as GPUs?... It is just as speculative to say it was about crypto mining. At least there is a source in the investigation claiming it was FIFA 21 related.

The whole point of the article originally was about stealing electricity. Then the anti-crypto people go crazy and start claiming environmental concerns, get rich quick schemes, etc. It's actually pathetic because it's in every single article that even fringley touches crypto.
Any decent GPUs are worth considerably more and are much more in demand right now so it doesn't surprise me the consoles outnumber the GPUs plus as someone else mentioned if they're stealing electricity there's a good chance those are stolen or they got a deal on some that "fell off a truck".

Also you're the one claiming that this article shows that the PS4s are being used for something besides mining. I've already pointed out twice now that BOTH claims about what PS4s are being used for are speculative.
 

M76

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But I guess it's okay to bot FIFA players on PS4's.
Why would it be okay? It's essentially the same thing. Using computational power (and thus resources) to generate revenue without producing anything of value. No wonder you don't get why crypto is a problem, when you can't even see such obvious parallels.

After all that is what this thread is about not your nonsensical crusade against crypto.
Adding an adjective doesn't actually contribute as an argument.
 

kirbyrj

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Adding an adjective doesn't actually contribute as an argument.

Maybe if this was the first thread you posted in it wouldn't, but you post in every thread tangentially touching crypto bashing it saying you don't see value, it's bad for the environment, it's a get rich quick scheme, etc. ad nauseam in EVERY thread. It doesn't matter how many people show you utility in it, you just don't care. If it wasn't for your game reviews, you would have been on my ignore list a long time ago.
 
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kirbyrj

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Any decent GPUs are worth considerably more and are much more in demand right now so it doesn't surprise me the consoles outnumber the GPUs plus as someone else mentioned if they're stealing electricity there's a good chance those are stolen or they got a deal on some that "fell off a truck".

Also you're the one claiming that this article shows that the PS4s are being used for something besides mining. I've already pointed out twice now that BOTH claims about what PS4s are being used for are speculative.

God forbid you read the fucking article. They were PS4 slims, and they had game discs in them. It's not a huge leap of logic to assume that 1). They were using it for a PS4 specific task, 2). they were using the games in some way, 3). A PS4 slim was used because it is cheaper than a PS4 pro but accomplishes the same task. 4) the source inside the investigation knows more than you do. 5). Selling FIFA profiles with unlocked players is lucrative.

So while it is speculative, it's not as if it is baseless. Using it for crypto-mining is significantly more baseless because 1). PS4's are not efficient at mining crypto vs. GPUs. The cost/benefit of using a PS4 to mine crypto is terrible. The CPU is old and slow, and you're looking at maybe 75% of a RX580 in the best case scenario with ETH mining (if were even possible) when a RX580 cost half the price. 2). PS4 slims would be significantly worse at it than PS4 Pros. 3). There is no widespread way to mine crypto on consoles (in fact, I haven't found a way to do it at all). If there was, it would likely be based on an exploit in older firmware and then you're assuming that they could "find" 3800 PS4 slims with the old firmware. 4). There is no source inside the investigation claiming it was crypto mining.

So I might be being speculative, but I'm also speculating that your anti-crypto bias is affecting your objectivity.
 
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blackmomba

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I'm actually surprised this is still a thing. In FIFA you can buy currency to build your team or you can grind the in game currency called coins.You always get a few coins when playing games, even if you quit the game early. You can automate this and I'm assuming this was the grand scheme

I'm surprised because EA has put a lot of effort into stopping coin and account selling.

In the beginning you could trade a player with another person. That was being exploited so they removed the feature

You could also sell a player for any coin amount. That allowed people to sell coins to other players for real money. EA put in price limits for each player. You can't sell a 4th division English nobody for millions anymore so you'd have to transfer your coins using either some valuable players or many, many common players.

People started automating the FIFA webapp with code. There's an auction house in FIFA that's available through the webapp where you can buy and sell players instead of having to do so on your console. EA put in captchas, rate limiting and some obfuscation to basically put an end to all poorly written webapp bots

Then people started hacking consoles to be able to reverse engineer the auction house code (and plenty other stuff) They knew that the auction house on console didn't use the same servers as the webapp but couldn't figure out which or how to authenticate. The "console login" became the fut hackers holy grail, I don't think it was ever found.

In the meantime, EA put out a companion app for android and iOS with... Auction house access. That was reversed and folks noticed that these servers didn't have the same anti automation mechanisms in place. Insta buying high priced items wrongly listed at lower prices became a thing again

It was actually a very interesting back and forth war that went on during the first 5-6 years FIFA ultimate team. Coins on the grey market were going for quite a bit, accounts stacked with coins and the best players were going for even more. Some popular YouTubers were being exposed as cheaters because they'd be banned on live streams. People were starting websites that offered full databases with all players, each card version, average prices of players per platform, rarity, mostly information you could only obtain by scraping the webapp. Some EA shut down, but some exist until today, without the pricing info of course. Fun times
 
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