Surface Pro - Coming in January - 64GB @ $899 - 128GB @ $999 - Cover optional

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heatlesssun

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http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsof...amily-surface-with-windows-8-pro-pricing.aspx

Looks to be priced in line with what most people were probably expecting. My concerns are battery life, how well the Windows desktop works with touch on such a small and hi-res screen and how well the pen works, especially pressure sensitivity in things like Photoshop.

On a 11.6 1366x768 I'm able to drive the Windows desktop with touch pretty well and with the enlargement of system text fonts a lot of apps are actually quite usable with touch on the desktop. Of course there's the desktop scaling that can help but that can cause some odd side effects in certain programs that I've noticed. But this will be my next I think.
 
But we all know 1920x1080 is a much better resolution! That and the pen are the two features I'm most interested in. Since the keyboard's cost so much, I'm actually wondering if not having you would be a big deal - I don't think I'd actually use it much anyway.

I take it the 4gb of ram is a hard limit and that there are no chance of upgrade? That seems quite low, as most ultrabooks allow double that.
 
Premium pricing for a premium product - I wonder how this will sell. There should be a number of competing products by that time. They really should bundle the keyboard with the Pro, it makes no sense to sell a device running x86 apps with no keyboard.
 
MrCrispy said:
Premium pricing for a premium product - I wonder how this will sell. There should be a number of competing products by that time. They really should bundle the keyboard with the Pro, it makes no sense to sell a device running x86 apps with no keyboard.
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I agree that it should be bundled with a keyboard but it does have a pen digitizer and that's a great input method for a device like this, of course other devices have pens as well.

The thing that could set this apart from other Core tablets is the cooling solution, it looks to be one of the most innovative I've seen.
 
So I have an unopened surface RT, which I'll likely return for MS store credit towards the surface pro.

It would be fantastic to play 720p videos on the pro, or gasp, even 1080p on that 1920x1080 screen.

My concern is around playback of either HD / 1080p quality videos on these machines, either as flatfile videos or playback through youtube/vimeo, etc.

I played a few 720p videos on YT on the RT, and there was some choppiness there.

The Pro has an i5 + Intel HD Graphics 4000, will that overcome most graphic usage?

- Surface RT: NVIDIA Tegra 3 T30

- Surface Pro: Intel Core i5 (third-generation, “Ivy Bridge”) with Intel HD graphics 4000
 
The surface pro was really the device I wanted from the minute they announced it. However, I am too happy with my Surface RT to even think about buying the pro :p
 
blinx said:
The surface pro was really the device I wanted from the minute they announced it. However, I am too happy with my Surface RT to even think about buying the pro :p
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Thought about getting Surface RT but the lack of third party video/audio codec support is a deal killer. Surface Pro should have 0 issues with this.

Not to mention the dual digitizers. I'm just hoping it's comparable to a Wacom digitizer.

I'm also curious about battery life. I'm hoping for 7-8 hours.
 
maverick777 said:
Thought about getting Surface RT but the lack of third party video/audio codec support is a deal killer. Surface Pro should have 0 issues with this.

Not to mention the dual digitizers. I'm just hoping it's comparable to a Wacom digitizer.

I'm also curious about battery life. I'm hoping for 7-8 hours.
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I'm expecting 6 max.
 
rflcptr said:
Yup. Two of my systems have HD3000s (Sandy) that play 1080p easily. Ivy's HD4000, even if throttled, will do fine.
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Yeah same here, even Sandy Bridge HD3000 systems can handle this pretty well, even my SB ULV Samsung Series 7 Slate from last year can do it while driving the native screen.
 
maverick777 said:
Yea. Based on what an Ivy bridge MacBook Air gets (with a 50whr battery vs 42whr on the Surface Pro), I'd say you're right on the money. I'm just hoping for more somehow.
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I think 6 to 7 would be about the best that could be expected. That's not great for a mobile OS tablet but for x65 based PC that's under 2 lbs. that's not bad at all. It would be great if someone build a dock with a batter in it if that's possible for the Surface design.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think 6 to 7 would be about the best that could be expected. That's not great for a mobile OS tablet but for x65 based PC that's under 2 lbs. that's not bad at all. It would be great if someone build a dock with a batter in it if that's possible for the Surface design.
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Interesting. I would assume the keyboard connector on the bottom of the device could be used as a dock connector and also provide charging but I am not sure.
 
For me the screen size is too small. 13" is the minimum I expect for a proper pc, as opposed to a tablet. a 13" Ultrabook with detatchable keyboard would be perfect, i.e. a 13" Surface Pro.

If the primary usage is tablet apps, i.e. WinRT, then weight and portability are important. The moment you cross the $500 mark, add support for full pc apps, then I'm willing to compromise on them to get a better experience - 3lb and 13".

I'm not the target market for this I guess.
 
I am pretty sure I will pick one up. I have the Surface now and I love it. I also have an Acer W510 coming in on Monday, lol. IMO for an extra $200-$300 dollars the Surface Pro looks to be awesome. First and foremost it is a tablet but it could honestly be a college students only computer.

Not surprised at all about the pricing or battery life. Just get it in my hands! haha

I just wish/hope Microsoft lets 3rd parties use the dock they made for touch cover. Some type of actual keyboard dock would be awesome
 
I would get this in a heart beat if I could afford this, guess that gives me the advantage to save and wait to see OEM offerings.
 
maverick777 said:
Thought about getting Surface RT but the lack of third party video/audio codec support is a deal killer. Surface Pro should have 0 issues with this.

Not to mention the dual digitizers. I'm just hoping it's comparable to a Wacom digitizer.

I'm also curious about battery life. I'm hoping for 7-8 hours.
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Not going to happen
 
Wiseguy2001 said:
If they knew things were that bad I don't see why they didn't hold off for a few months and wait for Haswell, it makes no sense.

If that's true then it's going to be a failed product from the get-go.
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This product uses a ulv that is pretty strong, why would they wait for a new atom soc that is just as slow as the last atom?
 
Trimlock said:
This product uses a ulv that is pretty strong, why would they wait for a new atom soc that is just as slow as the last atom?
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And woops, I confused haswell with clovertrail.

I don't think haswell, that is releasing in 2014 will be competitive with the current ulv cpu other then power consumption. Even if it it releases and is competitive why would they wait 2 years?
 
Trimlock said:
And woops, I confused haswell with clovertrail.

I don't think haswell, that is releasing in 2014 will be competitive with the current ulv cpu other then power consumption. Even if it it releases and is competitive why would they wait 2 years?
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I thought Haswell was slated for Apr 2013? That would only be an additional 3 month wait. In my opinion, if it meant the difference between what they have now and having a passively cooled unit with even 2 or 3 hrs more battery life... it would be well worth the extra 3 months to me.
 
Haswell is 2013 ~Q2. It'll cost more than Ivy Bridge but it's TDP drops down to 10W.
 
Deinos said:
I thought Haswell was slated for Apr 2013? That would only be an additional 3 month wait. In my opinion, if it meant the difference between what they have now and having a passively cooled unit with even 2 or 3 hrs more battery life... it would be well worth the extra 3 months to me.
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Has well can't be passively cooled, and I doubt it will give 50 percent more battery life. It won't hurt, but it is painfully obvious this needs a larger battery. I was all set for the surface pro but this battery life might be a deal breaker for me.
 
The poor battery life kills the surface pro, hopefully the refresh mid 2013 will make this better. I was holding off waiting for the pro but it seems that i'll have to wait even longer.
 
Trimlock said:
And woops, I confused haswell with clovertrail.

I don't think haswell, that is releasing in 2014 will be competitive with the current ulv cpu other then power consumption. Even if it it releases and is competitive why would they wait 2 years?
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Umm, Haswell will be out in mid-2013 AFAIK, and will have a TDP as low as 10W... Down from 17W on current ULV parts.

Deinos said:
I thought Haswell was slated for Apr 2013? That would only be an additional 3 month wait. In my opinion, if it meant the difference between what they have now and having a passively cooled unit with even 2 or 3 hrs more battery life... it would be well worth the extra 3 months to me.
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As others have said, Haswell systems still wouldn't be passively cooled... They'd probably have to cut the TDP in half for that to be even remotely possible. Haswell will have a much better GPU tho, and a significantly lower TDP will make system design easier nonetheless, should help w/battery life too.

Dock designs w/a meatier dock that houses a battery (like ASUS') seem like a no brainer tho, dunno why no one else is mimicking that.
 
MrCrispy said:
For me the screen size is too small. 13" is the minimum I expect for a proper pc, as opposed to a tablet. a 13" Ultrabook with detatchable keyboard would be perfect, i.e. a 13" Surface Pro.

If the primary usage is tablet apps, i.e. WinRT, then weight and portability are important. The moment you cross the $500 mark, add support for full pc apps, then I'm willing to compromise on them to get a better experience - 3lb and 13".

I'm not the target market for this I guess.
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A 13" tablet is pretty unwieldy tho, have you held the Yoga 13? Even w/o the keyboard it wouldn't be terribly comfortable... I'd say 11.6"-12" might be the sweet spot for a system that can actually serve dual duty, tho either way it's a compromise. Buyers just need to decide what they want first, tablet or laptop, and focus on that imo, if the device can handle the second task capably then it's a bonus.

For certain people carrying just once device has a lot of appeal... I'm not sure I'm on that camp but I can see the appeal of a smaller laptop that can take pen input etc. I'm trading my current 10" Android tablet for something in the 7" range, much more comfortable to read with... And then I'll figure out whether I just want a regular 13" ultrabook or whether a slightly smaller convertible could work instead.
 
Impulse said:
What kinda cooling solution are they using?
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It's supposed to be some kind of directed venting cooling that can change the direction of the airflow based on the orientation of the device if have my information correct.
 
It seemed to me like it was nothing more than a vent that went all the way around so unless you put a bumper style case on it it is not likely you will block it in any way. Its actually a nice way to cool it because it looks really seamless.

When this is all done and over I think the major downfall of this device is going to be that MS did not sacrifice weight for longer battery life.
 
I dunno, if you double the weight it'd lose a lot of appeal, at that point you might as well make a regular laptop chassis with a 360 degree hinge.
 
Well I think that the appeal is already gone, so they need to go for usability. I mean 4 hours is fine for me but I am sure most people wont like that, since most laptops last that long.

Plus I dont thin it would need to double the weight. I assume the battery is not user replaceable? I mean if it is, then I guess it does not matter because someone will make an extended battery if possible.
 
It's too bad Microsoft didn't have access to this kind of tech back in the early 2000's, it could have made a huge difference in that time period.
I'm just glad they are finally able to compete with Apple toe-to-toe.
 
I don't think anything would have changed, apple hit with the iPod and everything else can be explained as the direct benefit of that success. The only thing anyone could have done is mass market an mp3 player before apple did.
 
I don't know that the iPod is really the root of Apple's success, heh... Maybe financially it set them up to do other things, but the true force behind their current success was Job's business savvy. For all the fanboy crap about their designs and ease of use it's really the big business deals that Jobs struck that pushed their platforms and services forward (and I give Jobs credit because that sorta thing would be impossible for other companies with 20 chefs stirring the pot).

I don't know that anyone else could've brought all major music labels to the table and told them to shut up, we're selling tracks at $0.99 and that's that. If it wasn't for that iTunes and the iPod wouldn't have survived in the long run. It actually took quite a while for stuff like Zune and Amazon to catch up. Without the store the iPod would've simply been an expensive player (all it ever really was).

I don't know that anyone else could've convinced thousands of developers that a centralized market approach (with dollar apps!) actually made total sense for the mobile market, even if MS had tried it first people would've scoffed at giving them a cut, somehow Apple made it a matter of fact affair.

Still, Win8 and Surface is only competing with the iPad on price point for now... Long term they're alarmingly different strategies and despite their huge tablet market share Apple's heading down the same road there as they did with phones, just took a little longer. ARM tablets are in a race to the bottom unless MS/Intel seriously screw up future x86 device pricing and execution. The iPad (or any mobile OS tablet) can't possibly live at $500 forever without a major OS overhaul or a major market share sacrifice.

The Surface Pro might seem slightly overpriced or too much of a compromise between tablet/laptop to some (and it is, the latter anyway, I think the price is right); but it's the future. I don't think convergence or convertible devices are necessarily gonna be for everyone (enthusiasts more than anyone might not mind carrying smaller devices for reading, larger laptops for work, etc); but a huge chunk of the market is gonna be very well served by these things in the coming years.
 
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But that deal with itunes was part of the ipod, you are in the same line as me, take away the ipod, and just fast forward and magically release the iphone, it would have flopped. No way any carrier would have bent over to such terms.

Every one out there was trying to make app stores, the problem is no one else had the power which was granted to apple because of the ipod to force the carriers to do that. If you remember the carriers used to make those dollar apps, games and sell them, this is exactly why verizon told apple to screw off. No ipod = no such deal ever. Because of the ipod someone was going to cave and yes that would change things forever because we could finally get the carriers out of the business of app dev, which they were and still are terrible at.

The same goes for brand naming, everything thinks like you have to have business sense to do something, no you need power, you need to be able to twist someones arm, you think everyone out there doesnt want to shift profits to themself, build a universal brand name ? The phone makers all want this but they cant do it because the carriers just say screw off except when every 5 - 10 years a phone comes along that is so BIG that the power balance shifts and the carriers want to be able to say I have this phone.

Motorola RAZR was that first phone I remember to have that power, then iphone and now galaxy has built such a brand name. But trust me HTC would love to do it too, its not like they don't have business sense.

When the other mp3 players were out their bustin ass they were in the middle of the industry cracking down on them. No one would cut them a deal, you had to have some immense power. In fact I would say the real stupid players were the music industry who stupidly gave apple that monopoly and screwed over everyone else, then in the end when they thought they had control they did not. Netflix temporarily pulled off the same feat, but due to its hardware agnostic platform, the movie industry quickly found competitors to bid up and and compete with netflix.
 
Hmm, I agree the iPod did help Apple get the iPhone in the door since it gave them mass market appeal thanks to the popularity of the music store at that point, etc... But I'm not sure they were necessarily thinking app store at that point, much less pitching that idea to carriers. Remember, the store didn't show up until the iPhone 3G did, and originally they were pushing this idea of browser based web apps pretty hard...

So either that was the mother of all Trojan horses, or more than likely they quickly figured out their initial model wasn't sustainable after the initial AT&T contract expired and competition caught up so they needed the razor blades to sell the razor (not the best analogy I guess since hardware sales and large profit margins on those is what keeps their coffers stuffed)

I totally agree that getting the carriers to go fly a kite was one of Job's greatest coups tho, who knows if the carriers would've ever allowed something like Android to surface if they weren't trying to counter Apple's growing influence. The fact that he got AT&T to bend over so ridiculously over a device that was initially quite crippled is sorta amazing (no apps, no copy paste, no MMS, etc... it was basically Safari and a lot of glitz).

Totally agree with the music/movie industry thing too, a lot of these things happened without any real leverage tho, just ballsy gambles I guess. The music industry feared piracy more than Apple... AT&T only saw the immediate bump in subscriber base rather than the long term profits they gave away. In either case they could have ignored Apple and lived on, somehow Jobs turned a crack into a huge window of opportunity in both scenarios. Same with the iPad really, initially viewed as a jumbo iPhone, but there was a market to build there and by getting in early they were able to milk the hell out of it, tablets were gonna develop naturally either way... The tech just hadn't caught up.

Honestly, all the wild business deals Jobs made are gonna live on longer as big industry shifts more so than any of the devices Apple puts out, that and Pixar, we're wildly OT now tho. :p

I think devices like the Surface (only an x86 version) and Surface Pro eventually hit it big and take a huge chunk of the market, it just won't happen overnight because for all the OEM bellyaching I really don't think MS is interested in perpetually selling a halo device for their platform... Plus their marketing still sucks monkey balls (and that's the other thing that catapulted Apple's mobile strategy besides Job's business sense).

Seriously, the first round of Surface and Win 8 ads was ok, but the latest ones are doing absolutely nothing in showcasing why anyone would want one of these things instead of an iPad or even a Nexus 7. Nook ads show more of the product than MS does... :rolleyes:
 
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