Suggested LGA 1151 for gaming and VR?

[The Internal]

Howdy all.

So, on an impulse, I picked up a new 6700k through the Intel Retail Edge program for a great price. I'd rather get a LGA 2011 chip (like the 5820k), but more than a 50% discount is crazy hard to pass up when you're running a 3570k and are thinking about trying to get a VR / gaming rig up to speed and are sometimes dropping below 30fps in QHD gaming on your dual 670 GTX cards in modded out Skyrim and Fallout 4.

With rumblings of the newer x99 chips coming out, would it be wise to aim for a mid-range board now and (hoping I get a job that pulls me out of the "working poor" demographic) going all fancy-pants with a X99 later on... or is there enough performance in the 6700k to justify going with a $400 board and building it out balls to the wall and riding it for four years? I'm leaning towards either a big-arse easy to work in case, or going with a small foot-print build that I can do SLI in.

My must haves:

- Good audio (5.1 surround capable, minimum)
- full M.2 support
- 2 x SLI support at full 16x speeds (unless I opt for a mini-itx build)
- 32 GB RAM support

My nice to haves:

- thunderbolt (ideally 3.1)
- USB C
- high end gaming NIC
- Intel WiDi support

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Still very early on in the build research. The decisions I've made so far:

- Intel Core i7 6700k
- Samsung 950 Pro M.2 512 GB for OS / some programs
- large HD for media
- 2 x Geforce 1070 or 1080 cards (probably Gigabyte Windstream series or equivalents)
- full tower case
- gold or platinum rated PSU
- 16 to 32 GB RAM

Though I've seen some good reviews on the GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 (rev. 1.0)... wow, that is one ugly board The Asus Maximus VIII is pretty sweet looking and has all the features I'd ever want, but is really high in cost and I worry about the M.2 over heating. More research to do

 

[RanceJustice]

I would probably stick to Asus (usually my first choice), Gigabyte, and MSI when it comes to motherboards. There will be plenty of Z170 chipset boards that satisfy your requirements, but before that lets talk X99 / Socket 2011-3 .

As I'm sure you've noticed, the X99 - and any Enthusiast platform from Intel - is expensive at every stage of the game. However, there are times when they'd be a good value - I personally started on X58 (which is still my current rig, though I have X99 hardware ready for install when I pick up a new case) and it has lasted for ages, though it was an anomaly of sorts. I think the Haswell-E chips and X99 are another worthy leap forward, and we're very close to the Broadwell-E chips arriving. Now, for those who already have Haswell-E , Broadwell-E is not a meaningful upgrade. There's a very minor benefit to clock for clock improvement (though some suggest that Haswell-E is a better overclocker). Cost wise, it doesn't seem to change very much - most of the relatively affordable parts are 6-core, with the 8 core being $1000 - the same price point it occupied as the 5960X - and the new 10-core extreme edition supposing to cost an unheardof $1500. Most current X99 boards can be updated in BIOS/UEFI to support Broadwell-E hardware. There will be some updated X99 motherboards coming out, like a new Asus ROG Rampage board that ads a couple of nice features compared to the Rampage V Extreme (similar to a Black Edition upgrade in the past) such as RGB backlighting and native USB3.1, according to leaks. However, we won't know for certain until it releases properly, but I assume it will be another $400-500 board, expected of the Rampage Extreme series which pretty much rule the gaming/overclocking roost for years now. If you think you can afford, will really use, and are interested in the enthusiast platform you could sell your Skylake 6700K fora tidy profit to help defer the cost of the new hardware, but only you will know if X99 is a good plan for you or not. If you decide it is, it may be worth it to buy a new X99 board released for Broadwell-E chips, but then pick up a less expensive Haswell-E (used or otherwise) to lower the cost if you're worried about that.

Now on to Z170 if you decide to keep the Skylake. There are plenty of mid-range boards between Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI and it will be relatively easy to compare them on features and price. Most boards will have your Must Haves, and some of your Nice list will be available on higher end offerings. Unfortunately, one option - Thunderbolt 3 (and you do not want any lower-than-3 Thunderbolt, as it will lack a lot of features) is basically not included on any motherboards right now, highest end or otherwise. However, much of the rest can be included. You mention the Maximus VIII having what you want, but are worried about cost. While the Maximus VIII "Extreme" and "Formula" versions will be the most expensive, Asus has done a great job adding some more affordable ROG boards under the "Hero" suffix. I'd personally look for the updated "Hero Alpha", which is newer than the "Hero" and has a few improved board features as well as some fluff, while not costing much more than the older version. Last I checked Hero boards were around $200-250 or so, so well below the typically $300+ seen of Formula and Extreme models of Maximus offerings, so maybe this is a good compromise? ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO ALPHA - Overview . If these are too expensive, you may want to check the Maximus VIII "Ranger", which is the new lowest cost ROG board, but is still high quality. Compare and see what you prefer.

When it comes down to your planned builds, you are clearly putting a lot of money into your system; especially with 2x 1080 cards. If you really intend to build that way, going multi-GPU, maybe its worth swinging for Haswell-E or Broadwell-E instead? Though you are trying to be budget conscious and get a good value, so I'd advise to wait to see how Polaris 10 does compared to the 1070 (earliest benchmarks show it being equal or slightly less, for what could be an extremely low price in comparison), and if AMD Vega will arrive this year and with what specs. I personally would not invest in Nvidia's 1080 (or probably 1070), as it seems that the GPUs this year (unless Vega really smashes expectations and arrives before the end of the year HBM2 intact). are kind of "placeholders". HBM2 wasn't ready at price points either company wanted, so they rolled back - AMD focused on the mid-grade hopefully great value Polaris cards, but Nvidia basically tossed out another $600+ card that isn't even "really" a card made to dominate 4K resolution. If you're interested in VR, Polaris 10 (ie 480X or 490X whatever it is called) may be a great option for you, and with 2 of them in crossfire may give near 1080 performance or better for a lot cheaper.. AMD has targeted their cards at value, power saving, VR, performance at 1080p and 1440p etc...while we wait for their high end Vega. So just something to think about; unless you have no qualms spending for a multiGPU setup again next year etc.. I wouldn't buy the Nvidia top tiers, especially until the competition debuts and value is established. Picking up something mid-grade from the newest generation this year may help you last until the heavy hitters with HBM2 arrive next year.

Hope that helps!

 

[The Internal]

Thanks for the thoughts, Xaeos. Unfortunately, Intel SUPER frowns on folks selling their retail Edge discounted processors and actively boot folks for doing so. I'm thinking I don't want to incur the wraith of Intel.

I do agree with you on the X-99 being the more appealing route. I built my old man a bad-ass gaming rig based on the 5820k and dual 970 GTX cards, so I was jealous the whole time.

You make a good point on Vegas. I'm a longtime AMD fanboy, but have continued to be disappointed in lots of the benches I've seen on their CPUs and GPUs for the last few years (though I have both and AMD FX-8320 and Intel i5-3570k system... very similar performance ratings on those two chops). Though I sincerely hope the Vegas can give the Geforce a good run for the money, I'm a bit skeptical that they'll pull off a big win there (though I'd love to see it).

After 6 hours of research on parts / options, I have been finding myself leaning towards a moderately portable VR / steam machine build based on a mini-ITX motherboard and single GPU solution. It'd be cheaper, still be a good improvement for the interim, and probably do a better job than my current dual 670 GTX rig.

If I wanted to go the super cheap-o route, I could just buy a nice motherboard and RAM and slap my other parts in there, then filter down my parts to my other systems. I'm still really curious to try a new GPU (my two 670s are 4 years old as of this month!) and a full speed M.2 drive tho.

So many choices. Arghle Bleargle.

 

[RanceJustice]

You're welcome. Ahh, I wasn't aware of the specifics of Retail Edge being monitored so closely, though unless there's something I missed, I can't imagine how they'd know about a low profile person-to-person transaction like FS/WTB as opposed to Amazon/Ebay etc.... but still, you have to do what you're comfortable with and if you think its better to keep it, then certainly do so.

Your dad must be quite a gamer with such a powerful system, glad he's enjoying it; I'm actually getting ready to build mine a Skylake based kit because his old AMD Phenom II X4 BE has just about had it!

I suppose we'll all have to see what arrives. In theory the "Vega" cards , were originally supposed to have been pushed to next year, when both Nvidia's and AMD's HMB2 high ends would debut. Later came a rumor that Vega could come as early as this October and if that were the case, and it hasn't been watered down (ie lost HBM2) then it could have really caught Nvidia off guard. However, I am not holding my breath that we'll see new HBM2 high end cards this year from anyone. Still, I'm eager to see what the rest of the year brings.

This seems like a good idea to make use of your 6700K and hold you over until we see some of the big launches to come this year and next (ie AMD Zen, next years GPUs etc). If you're looking for mITX kit, it will be a little more expensive than mid level ATX but still shouldn't come up to top-end ATX, regarding hardware and the like. Normally I'd suggest the Asus ROG Maximus VIII Impact (Impact being their suffix for mITX boards, like Gene is their suffix for mATX) , MAXIMUS VIII IMPACT - Overview , but MSI also has a worthwhile offering in the Z170I GAMING PRO AC | MSI USA | Motherboard - The world leader in motherboard design , so take a look and see which you prefer! There aren't very many Z170 mITX boards per vendor, so it will be easy to compare. These will be a good base for a top quality mITX system. Have you given any thought to the case? It seems you prefer to build high end so if you're willing to go all in, let me suggest the following cases that are mITX compatible yet can hold a full length GPU and as much CPU cooling as possible. The NCASE M1 has been lauded as a great mITX platform - NCASE | M1, using SFX and some ATX PSUs depending, along with decent cooling options too. CaseLabs, a boutique ultra high end case manufacturer, has created a couple of new small form factor cases too. They have the Nova X2M - PC Cases and Pedestals - The NOVA Case Line - CaseLabs Store , which is ATX PSU compatible and has some of the best cooling options around for mITX. Note, for CaseLabs their "QuickShip" version typically are setup with some of the most popular customizations at a discount, so if they suit you go right ahead. The standard version takes longer to ship and starts cheaper, but they will get more expensive depending on how you configure them from the many options available. They also recently released a less expensive line of smaller form factor cases under the "Bullet" moniker - PC Cases and Pedestals - The Bullet Case Line - CaseLabs Store - The BH2 is mITX and is small as it can be, the BH4 is mATX, and the BH7 is ATX - though all of them are pretty small. The BH2 and BH4 all require a SFX power supply, so keep that in mind though, along with getting compact enough cooling. These are some of those I'd look to for making a full gaming mITX rig so maybe they'd help you! Oh, and as far as the PSUs are concerned, if you're buying one that can take an ATX (and not take up too much space, limiting your build) then the advice is the same as any other, but if you are looking for a SFX / SFX-L there are some recent releases that are Gold or Platinum 80+ at 600w or greater, last I checked.

Just having your new mITX board, DDR4 RAM, 6700K and cooler (I'm guessing you plan to go closed loop liquid, depending on which case you choose?), will be a nice upgrade. You can always bring in new things like SSDs and whatnot (the 950 Pro is pretty much going to be the best around, save for possibly Intel XPoint meeting it when it debuts), but I'd hold off buying any new GPUs at least until Polaris 10 launches (assuming Vega is not coming this year) and then you can compare Polaris 10 on price and performance to the 1080, 1070 etc.. to see which you want to hold you over until next year's HBM2 behemoths arrive. Hope this helps!

 

[The Internal]

Thanks for the additional thoughts, Xaeos. Hah. Oops on the "Vega" thing. Hard to keep track of all the new names marketing departments keep coming out with.

Unfortunately, neither the Asus Maxiumus VIII Impact nor the MSI Z170I Gaming Pro offer support for my Samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVMe 512 GB drive. The Asus would have been the clear choice for me if it did. With those out of the running, it became a three horse race:

- ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming-ITX/ac (reviews: TweakTown, Tomshardware, and Proclockers) with 8 phase power, USB 3.1, nice heatsinks, but only 3 analogue audio ports.
- Asus Z170i Pro Gaming (reviews: bit-tech, eteknix, and reviewstudio) with 10 phase power, nice heatsinks, good audio, but awful font choices for the logo.
- Gigabyte Z170N-Gaming 5 (reviews: SPCR, LanOC, thinkcomputers) great NIC, good audio, DVI port, bluetooth 4.2, USB 3.1 (type C), but only 5 phase power and wimpy heatsinks.

I was initially leaning towards the ASRock, but with the realization that it only had 3 analogue audio connectors, that knocked it out of the running since I'm a bit of an audio snob. I'm currently torn between the Gigabyte and Asus. The Gigabyte has appeal in it's NIC, bluetooth 4.2, USB 3.1 C port, audio solution, and DVI port but I'm turned off by the less robust heatsinks and power system. The Asus's wins are in it's power system, familiar UEFI / software, and heatsinks. All that being said, I'm leaning towards the Gigabyte at the moment.

As for the case, I'm leaning towards a slim form factor / console style case. The Lian-Li PC-Q19 is the closest to what I want aesthetically, but doesn't support a full length GPU. In terms of functionality, the SilverStone Raven RVZ01 is the current top (though I highly dislike the aesthetics). I'm also considering the Silverstone ML08 and RVZ02 (best bang for the buck with decent looks on both of these... if only it had 3.5" drive support with a full size GPU!) cases since they're less ugly, though I'd have to sacrifice a 3.5" storage drive to do so (a Samsung Spinpoint 2 TB 2.5" is my fallback storage option if I can't do 3.5"). The Lian-Li PC-05 is probably the best combination of function with aesthetics I want, but is about 2-3x more than I had hoped to spend and a good bit larger than I'd prefer. Fractal's Node 202 looked pretty nice, but had awful thermals and acoustics according to SPCR. If anyone has additional suggestions on slim console-like / aesthetically appealing living room cases that can fit a full sized high-end GPU, a 3.5" drive, a PSU, and possibly even a blu-ray (though not an absolute must), I'd love to hear of it. One that's quiet is a huuuuuge plus. My main point of research for this afternoon will be figuring out the case to go with.

I was leaning towards air cooling since I've yet to find a closed loop system with adequately quiet acoustic properties. That and the price premium is hard for me to justify. I'd rather have 2-5 degrees C higher if it means noticeable improvements in acoustics. That being said, I'm limited to rather low profile coolers for the slim cases. I've mostly been eyeballing Reeven, Scythe (of which I have a lot of positive experiences with), Noctua, Be Quiet!, and Raijintek.

 

[RanceJustice]

Yes, the one downside of the Maximus VIII Impact is the lack of a M.2 slot, in favor of a U.2 . However, since the U.2 slot is electically PCIe 3.0 x4 AKA NVMe ready, then perhaps there's a converter somewhere? I see a handful of U.2. to M.2 converters, but alas I have no experience with them myself so maybe someone can tell you if that's a good idea and which to buy . Assuming that doesn't work out though, if you otherwise liked the MSI I'd definitely put it into the running as I specifically selected it because of its M.2 PCI-E 3.0 x4 / NVMe compatibility, audio upgrades, wireless and wired NIC etc.. The SSD even mounts right on the back of the board, like other mITX and it supports different sized M.2 drives as well. They talk about it a lot on its page, including the "Enjoy a blazing fast system with Turbo M.2 with speeds up to 32 Gb/s. The Turbo M.2 connector on the back of the motherboard supports 2 sizes of M.2 SSDs." but the tech specs show its a "1 x 2260 Key M(PCIe Gen3 x4/SATA on back side), 1 x 2230 Key E(Wi-Fi) " . Unless there's something I'm missing, shouldn't this work for a 950 Pro? The only issue I see discussed is the lack of "official" support for the longer M.2 drives, but from what I've read this is a space issue more than anything, nothing electrical - just be sure the card is secure. Someone mocked up what a full length M.2 looks like in comparison, which doesn't seem to troublesome to deal with 20 additional mm.

As for the other boards you mention, I personally had bad experiences with ASRock so I keep away from them, but admittedly it was many years ago. Recently, I haven't seen them do anything really to warrant trying them atop the top-tier board manufacturers, save for them offering the one mITX X99 board - have to give them props for that! I forgot about the Asus Pro Gaming and yes its not as aesthetically pleasing, but it seems a solid offering save for the lack of USB 3.1 Type C (though you do get Type A ports). The Gigabyte I was a bit disappointed in the NIC, using a Killer NIC instead of an Intel one, as Killer products used to have issues/compatibility, but maybe they've improved since being acquired by... Atheros was it? See how the MSI stacks up assuming there isn't some sort of issue with its M.2 slot, and if you liked the Impact save for the U.2 issue, see if a converter is available these days and save yourself some trouble; when it comes down to it, you'd probably be able to build a nice system off of any of those boards.

Ahh, I see. So you're for a slim case. Do you need a vertical or horizontal orientation, or can it be either? I'm a bit out of my element when it comes to the absolute smallest form factors where significant compromise must be made, but I think the best thing to do is decide what is most important to you and what you're willing to give up. Trying to get a high power PC like you've described (though a next-gen GPU will help a little due to better thermals, especially if you go for Polaris or perhaps the 1070), properly cooled and overclocked into those ultra slim cases will be a challege indeed, not to mention some of the other elements you mention. The NCASE M1 that I linked above would probably be one of the best compromises of price (not as high as the LianLi you mention, but not cheap either), and performance/features (Pretty much no problem cooling, 3.5HDDs if you wish etc), if you could stomach the slightly thicker build. Otherwise, its all down to what you would be willing to compromise. Perhaps those in the SFF forum here, and communities on other sites, could have some additional suggestions for you as well.

As far as cooling is concerned, I've used Scythe coolers for low profile work years ago (mostly mATX) and they were successful. Noctua is also a well regarded name, but I'm not as familiar with the others. Oh, it will be case-dependent of course, but Corsair is now offering a brand new, low profile self contained liquid cooler - Hydro Series™ H5 SF Low-Profile Liquid CPU Cooler . Guru3D and others tended to like it, from what I read, as it certainly eclipsed the cooling performance of other low profile coolers while remaining quiet, so long as you didn't go overboard. Of course, if you are using a larger case that can handle radiators/heatsinks at 120mm/140mm I'm sure that will be even more quiet if paired with the correct, noise-focused fans. However, it may be something to consider if you're working in a very confined space and need additional cooling.

Hope you can find some good potential components!

 

[The Internal]

The 950 Pro is a 2600mm. Too long for the MSI from pics I've seen (It bonks into the CPU backplate).

Thanks for the additional thoughts. Will try to update further when I get some time.