Student Arrested For Classroom Texting

[ordovician]

Those Laws are Unconstitutional and are in blatant, direct violation of the Bill of Rights. I have no fucking clue how public schools get around doing stupid shit like this.


Public school isn't free. Her parents paid to send her there through both state AND federal taxes. And most (as in >50%) of cops DO have bad attitudes and do far more bad than good.


I agree 100%. She didn't harm a damn soul.

Um, you're f-bombing like this and you're criticizing anti-government people, like myself, who support your inalienable right to do so 100%.

Finally a fellow libertarian.

 

[PeteLightning]

Wow... arrested for using a phone in class, that's just ridiculous. I don't think anyone should be arrested in school for anything short of assaulting a student/employee, they have detention and Saturday school for a reason. At this rate we'll have the national guard patrolling our schools for kids cutting class by 2010!

 

[Manaknight]

Wow... arrested for using a phone in class, that's just ridiculous. I don't think anyone should be arrested in school for anything short of assaulting a student/employee, they have detention and Saturday school for a reason. At this rate we'll have the national guard patrolling our schools for kids cutting class by 2010!

we already have cameras, armed security guards, and military drills... 2010 sounds about right

 

[NKDietrich]

Then why go to school in the first place? They removed her from the class and the police got involved because of her attitude.

You live by the rules or you leave making your own rules. She wanted to live but without the rules.

Last I checked having a bad attitude isn't illegal. Unless she assaulted a teacher, the police have no business showing up. All this does is make the kid spiteful and want to break more rules. I remember exactly what I was like when I was 14. If some shithead teacher had called the cops on me for something stupid, I'd have given them a real reason to call the cops. Admittedly that was before the age of kids having cell phones. The only time the police showed up at any school I attended is because some kid got caught with booze or drugs, or because some kid got a beating and couldn't take it like a man. Every time the police got involved, the situation invariably got worse.

Police are bad with kids. The justice system does nothing for kids. They should be kept out of it in all but the most extreme of circumstances. (When harm is coming to others.) Involving the police for every little infraction doesn't help. Hell, I wasn't even involved in this situation, and have never had a run in with the cops in my life more serious than a speeding ticket. Yet I am steaming pissed just thinking about it.

Police simply have no business showing up at a school unless serious crimes have been committed. Everything else needs to be handled the proper way. With the involvement of teacher, counselor, and parents. There is no justification for having some cop yank a phone out of someones underwear, and then cuff them and haul them off unless they were beating someone with the phone.

It seems like no one here sees the writing on the wall. The police have become the first resort for student discipline in our public schools, instead of the last resort. There is nothing to indicate the student was violent. She simply did not want to give up her phone. They simply should have said "Okay. Have it your way. But we'll have to talk to your parents."

Lets use our brains for a second instead of being Holier Than Thou Internet Hypocrites. Yeah, texting is illegal and worthy of arrest, but your rampant software/media piracy is fine and legit. By that logic you should all be executed by the government. Anyway... here's how I believe this situation should have been handled, given the available information.

Situation: A teacher believes a student is being disruptive in class.
Goal: Remedy the disruption.
Solution: Tell student to stop the disruptive behavior.

Situation: Student does not cease disruptive behavior.
Goal: Still to remedy the disruption.
Solution: Give student a choice of ceasing behavior, or sitting out in the hall/being sent to the office.

If they said they'd stop, and didnt, then at that point you don't give em a choice. Send em to the office. At that point, their having the phone or not having the phone is immaterial. If they continue to lie or deny wrongdoing, then you meet with the parents.

This seems like a very reasonable course of action for such a minor infraction.

At this point, the situation should be resolved. The goal here is to maintain a productive classroom environment. Nothing was being harmed except perhaps the learning environment of a few kids. But things obviously escalated at this point. I doubt the student would have refused to leave the classroom.

Obviously there was no attempt to resolve the matter with the parents, since clearly enough time did not elapse for a meeting to be scheduled and take place. That's where the mistake happened. (Again, given available information.) In the event a student becomes unruly, it is because you are pressuring them. Your responsibility as an educator is to back off. You aren't there to punish or convict them of a crime. You are there to ensure a stable learning environment.

The problem is that educators these days are frustrated because of their high stress underpaid jobs. They treat children and students as if they are adults. They antagonize students and exacerbate situations. They get the idea that they are right, and the student is wrong, and they are going to escalate the situation until the student gives in or the situation gets out of hand.

That's what people on this forum don't understand. A lot of people around here are a bunch of unrealistic bastards. We spend so much time sitting on the net that we forget how reality works. Everything sounds great from your chair in between your Mountain Dew Castle and your Pirated Music Tower. Arrest everyone for everything! That'll learn 'em! Yeah, okay. Tell that to your teenage daughter who gets hauled off to jail for having a cell phone and lying about it. All without any input from you, or a chance to resolve things conventionally.

The fact is that educators aren't here to enforce every law, to the letter of the law. They are here to educate our children. They are the adults. They are responsible for making sure situations don't get out of hand. Often our children spend more time with their teachers on a given day than they spend with us. Too often teachers make situations worse by over-reacting. Once the disruption to the classroom has been solved, their responsibility ends. Anything beyond that is up to the parents.

Anyone who tries to justify police involvement here, based on the available information, is not using their head. Yeah you can make up some "what ifs" but none of the available information says anything that justifies skipping any parental involvement and going to the police.

 

[NKDietrich]

TO all the nut jobs here that are trying to blame the schools or the gov't or what not, I ask you this, will you get into a dialogue with me involving only those involved?

CAST

The 2 or so police officers (we'll use one male one female for this test)

What I would have done differently: Told the school officials to take it up with the kids parents.

The teacher

Wouldn't have made a a big deal out of someone quietly texting someone. Anything I do as a teacher in this situation would only cause more disruption, which harms learning.

The principle

I would have sat the girl out of class for the day, called her parents, and set up a meeting to discuss the issue. I certainly wouldn't have demanded she hand over the phone. If she's sitting in the office she cant disrupt anyone with it anymore anyway.

The girl's parents (who shouldnt even be playing because obviously they havnt done shit to parent this girl, but I know if I dont put this here you'll whine and bitch that this isnt fair)

Obviously they haven't done shit to parent the girl? How do you figure? If the worst thing my kid was doing was texting in class, that would make me a world class parent. This statement you made is proof positive that you do not have children, and should not ever have children.

Pick a role (obviously, anyone but the girl) and tell me what you would have done differently in this scenario and I'll tell you why it wouldnt work.

Go for it. Explain to me why pulling the kid out of class and calling her parents would not have worked.

Try me, I dare ya, and you'll see 3 things
1: The girl is to blame. PERIOD.
2: The cops were a last ditch effort.
3: The schools are POWERLESS

The girl is to blame, period? The girl is a kid. It's the responsibility of the teachers and parents to responsibly handle situations. A minor situation ended with police involvement. That's a failure on the part of the school.

Cops were a last ditch effort? This all happened within the space of a single school day. Probably within the space of a couple hours. Obviously the parents were not involved at all. That's not a last ditch effort. Sorry but short of someone being assaulted, there is no reason for a situation to escalate from a teacher warning to the police showing up within a few hours.

The schools are powerless? They obviously have the power to have your child searched and arrested on some retarded technicality without you even being informed. That's a lot of power.

Just fucking try me, this is getting beyond stupid with the shit some of you are spewing, and on a side note, personal thanks from me and my brothers in arms to all the law enforcement or related jobs that have posted here, you keep us going!

Yeah. Keeping you safe from all those 14 year old girls with their texting. You're ridiculous and need to read what you've posted.

 

[ordovician]

The problem is that educators these days are frustrated because of their high stress underpaid jobs. They treat children and students as if they are adults. They antagonize students and exacerbate situations. They get the idea that they are right, and the student is wrong, and they are going to escalate the situation until the student gives in or the situation gets out of hand.

I agree 100% with your post, as you can see below. Very eloquently written, by the way.

They are incapable of "backing down" when a 14 year old tries to escalate a, quite frankly, ridiculous scenario. They are incabaple of seeing the ridiculousness of the offense, and instead concentrate on the fact that someone DARE to challenge their rules. This wasn't about a cell phone, people. If they REALLY wanted to bust her THAT badly, the school could have just talked to the girl's friend, or parents, and gotten her cell phone number. They then could have tried calling her phone, and when she rings, she's busted. No police involved. Then, she should be punished at school, NOT with the law.

 

[ordovician]

Obviously they haven't done shit to parent the girl? How do you figure? If the worst thing my kid was doing was texting in class, that would make me a world class parent. This statement you made is proof positive that you do not have children, and should not ever have children.

I think one of the roots of the disagreement here is the base assumption of the nature of the 14 year old. I think the people who agree with the punishment probably assumed she's a "bad" kid, a f- up, and probably comes from a low-income broken family.

People who think the punishment was ridiculous may think she's a typical 14 year old, decent student, middle class girl who might have just been too emotional that day.

The thing is, though, that the question of whether the girl is "good" or "bad" has no bearing on this situation. She was arrested for texting in class, and being argumentative and uncooperative. Find me a 14 year old girl who isn't like that!

What kind of message are we sending the "good" girl by allowing her to be arrested? If I were her, I'd be so indignant at the situation I wouldn't know what to do. I'd be disillusioned with the whole system.

If I were the "bad" girl, deep down I'd feel even more hopeless than I did before. I'd know that they just think of me as trash, and I'd hate them for it.

Typical authoritarians tend to have a good guy/bad guy mentality, and approach anyone they perceive as being out of line as a "bad apple" to be dealt with. I disagree with approaching this scenario with that mentality, because after all, she's just a 14 year old.

 

[NKDietrich]

What kind of message are we sending the "good" girl by allowing her to be arrested? If I were her, I'd be so indignant at the situation I wouldn't know what to do. I'd be disillusioned with the whole system.

Good post. When I was that age I was sort of like that as well. If I felt I was being treated unreasonably, I stopped being reasonable myself. Like you said, she is a 14 year old girl and should be treated as such. Expecting adult reactions out of a 14 year old is unreasonable.

Most kids know when they have done something wrong. They also usually have an idea of what a fair outcome is for their wrongdoing. Lets say a kid stays out too late one night, and their parent yells at them that they are grounded for 3 months. The kid is going to be upset at such a severe punishment for one slip up, and probably make a scene. It's a natural response, since teenagers first and foremost don't know when to just shut up.

On the other hand, the parent should KNOW that an empty threat of a severe punishment is going to cause problems, and avoid it. Who is at fault here, the kid, or the parent who should have damn well known better? The parent.

It's like you said, it isn't just black and white, wrong and right. The burden of responsibility is on the adult to act like an adult. The burden is on the adult to know when to stop escalating a situation. A kid who acts like an adult should be the GOAL, not the expectation.

 

[LstBrunnenG]

...or maybe it will just discourage texting in class?

Not everything is class warfare, you know.

 

[Syndicated_Death]

Students are entitled to a safe
atmosphere, free from noise and distractions.

man I remember that one time someones walkman made the slightest noise outside of his hearing range. I nearly died. I'm thankful for laws like this

 

[ordovician]

Thing is, kids text in my class occasionally, and I don't have an issue with it. When I started teaching, I was under the impression that they'd respect me more and follow the rules if I was a little more of a hard ass. That just made them not like me, and made them resist. You push them, they push back. Human nature, I suppose. A teacher should be nice, reasonable, and yet still respected. Believe it or not, I think that even a 14 year old girl can be reasoned with in a rational manner. Maybe the best way for the teacher to deal with this scenario was to let her text during class, and then confront her politely, after class, in a non-authoritative way. I might explain to her that while it isnt THAT big of a deal, it can distract other students. I'd ask her nicely if she could please keep it to a minimum in the future. I've found that if you have a good repotoire with your students beforehand, they usually respect you and do as you ask. Not as you DEMAND. Most people react negatively to another individual exerting direct control over them, or if they perceive that an authority figure has negatively judged them. At least for me, it's easier to convince them they WANT to actually follow the rules, and that I am there to help them and guide them. Maybe a root issue was that the teacher didn't know how to conduct themself so that students both respect you as their mentor and like actually you. (Or at least tolerate you).

 

[Manaknight]

Thing is, kids text in my class occasionally, and I don't have an issue with it. When I started teaching, I was under the impression that they'd respect me more and follow the rules if I was a little more of a hard ass. That just made them not like me, and made them resist. You push them, they push back. Human nature, I suppose. A teacher should be nice, reasonable, and yet still respected. Believe it or not, I think that even a 14 year old girl can be reasoned with in a rational manner. Maybe the best way for the teacher to deal with this scenario was to let her text during class, and then confront her politely, after class, in a non-authoritative way. I might explain to her that while it isnt THAT big of a deal, it can distract other students. I'd ask her nicely if she could please keep it to a minimum in the future. I've found that if you have a good repotoire with your students beforehand, they usually respect you and do as you ask. Not as you DEMAND. Most people react negatively to another individual exerting direct control over them, or if they perceive that an authority figure has negatively judged them. At least for me, it's easier to convince them they WANT to actually follow the rules, and that I am there to help them and guide them. Maybe a root issue was that the teacher didn't know how to conduct themself so that students both respect you as their mentor and like actually you. (Or at least tolerate you).

careful, thats too rational for the armchair hardasses and neocons around here. Unless you are tazing you aren't doing your job.

btw, excellent posts.

 

[Vaulter98c]

The 2 or so police officers (we'll use one male one female for this test

What I would have done differently: Told the school officials to take it up with the kids parents.

Fail. First of all, the school couldn't reach the parents because all the contact numbers the girl gave were false, as was the numbers on her record ( which she probly filled in false, but we'll assume they change numbers often so I dont hurt your feelings). Second of all, by contacting the police, he at least had to make an appearance (his dispatch sent him there after all) to fill out a report, and upon making his apearance he seen the girl in the hall (before he even asked any administration about what happened) and she lied to him and he seen her hide it. Third, which you can argue if you want, but obviously this girl has no respect for a) RULES or b) AUTHORITY to enforce those RULES (which she knew damn well of the rules.

Once they finally got a good number, her mother was brought in. She lied to everyone, including the cops, before she fessed up to her mom. Her parents obviously havent hit the head on the nail because she has no respect at all and lied to the police. If she had told the truth to the cops, like you should teach your kids to, I bet the cop would have thrown the whole thing out, but I cant prove that so I wont use it. But she lied to the cops, and I know thats not something a responsible parent teaches their kid to do. If this kid has no fear of lying to the cops, then she's obviously had a few examples or reasons at home for why she thinks like this, because most kids would realize this is not a time to lie.

So, that one is a fail. Whats next?

The teacher

Wouldn't have made a a big deal out of someone quietly texting someone. Anything I do as a teacher in this situation would only cause more disruption, which harms learning.

Bif fail. Fail at your job for not enforcing a rule that keeps her from learning, its not about her disrupting the class at this point, its about her not learning, and thats what our tax dollars are for, for her to learn. She doesn't need to be texting in class, she is breaking a good rule that she agreed to obey, she should be paying attention and learning, or she should at least look like she's not waisting my tax dollars.
A kid is sleeping in your class. He's not disturbing anyone, but your as a teacher are failing him if you dont wake him up so he may learn an ounce of what you did that day, not to mention its VERY disrespectful. So, you as a teacher have failed your student by not correcting them, but letting them slack off and you let it happen. Where I come from, if a kid is being a twat, you help them by correcting them, because if you dont, sooner or later someone will, and I'd rather be corrected in school by a teacher than at my good paying job getting fired by my boss because im a twat.

And, I doubt the first few attempts to correct the problem were disrupting the class. Its much more likely that he asked the girl to turn it off or give it to him, which would take like 5-10 seconds max. I doubt as soon as he seen her texting he started throwing tables and DESTROYING THE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT , I bet he tried a few times for a few seconds to resolve it quietly, actually, ya I know, because I didnt see CHAOS in the police report anywhere. Then she lied to him, which led to this whole mess.

So, no, that didnt work, either because you failed the student by letting them ignore the class. whats next?

The principle

I would have sat the girl out of class for the day, called her parents, and set up a meeting to discuss the issue. I certainly wouldn't have demanded she hand over the phone. If she's sitting in the office she cant disrupt anyone with it anymore anyway.

Ok, explain to me when she is resisting everything you do how you will get her to the office. She will just go on her day without giving the slightest damn about you or your rules. Ok, grab her arm and lead her to the office , FAIL, LAWSUIT. You wouldnt demand her phone, so she'd go on right about her day knowing you cant do a damn thing to stop her, and she'd have her phone in other classes, so she'd probly do the same thing again in that class. She knows you cant do a damn thing, and she played the system thinking that was as far as it would go, and it went farther. no sympathy from me. You can't do a thing now a days and she knows it, so you fail.

The girl's parents (who shouldnt even be playing because obviously they havnt done shit to parent this girl, but I know if I dont put this here you'll whine and bitch that this isnt fair)

Obviously they haven't done shit to parent the girl? How do you figure? If the worst thing my kid was doing was texting in class, that would make me a world class parent. This statement you made is proof positive that you do not have children, and should not ever have children.

Obviously, they have missed a few key points, like RESPECT and FOLLOW THE DAMN RULES. Plus, she has a known history with the school AND the cops, so she's no shining star. and this is the last time I'm going to say this, ITS NOT ABOUT THE FUCKING TEXTING, ITS ABOUT HER LYING, BREAKING THE RULES, AND DISRESPECT TO ALL INVOLVED. As for that last point, I'm not a perfect parent, neither are you, neither is anyone, but I've done a much better job than these idiots, my family understands the value of respect and honor, probably 2 of the most important qualities if you ask me. My kids break stupid little rules here and there, but they dont try and lie their way out, and certainly wouldnt lie to the police. That and in the report it says that the mother said either the school keep it, or give it to her husband, so she completely avoids getting involved with this situation, and she tells them to make that decision. She is abandoning her kid when she should step up and take charge to try and help her daughter become someone with atleast a shred of respect, not pass the buck off to the schools (which is what she is doing). So, obviously the parents are divided on how to raise the kid, which they shouldnt be, and at least the mother doesnt want any part to do with it. Since the girl was texting dad and the mom wanted nothing to do with it, Id assume the family is pretty split already, with the girl leaning towards dad's side because he lets her be like this (what dad would text a conversation with their kid when they know they should be in school?) I know you'll come back with saying, it could have been important, yes, it could have, but if it was really important, he'd text it? If it was something important, I bet he'd call her or call the school.

Now what? This is getting kinda fun, I didnt figure anyone would actually try and shift the blame when I layed it out so clear.

Go for it. Explain to me why pulling the kid out of class and calling her parents would not have worked.

Well, I think I just did, because they couldnt pull her out of class. If she would have volunteered to go to the office, Im sure this never would have gotten this far, but you all seem to be missing the fact she was resisting everything the school did. Only way to get this ♥♥♥♥ to the office would have them swimming in liability issues. Schools have no power beyond word, and if the kids dont respect the word, then your shit out of luck.

The girl is to blame, period? The girl is a kid. It's the responsibility of the teachers and parents to responsibly handle situations. A minor situation ended with police involvement. That's a failure on the part of the school.

Yup, she's a kid, but a kid still knows right from wrong. She's 14, not a damn 7 year old. How can a teacher handle it? Their hands are tied. The parents, yea, they should have instilled a few values in her to prevent all of this, so a little goes to them, but nothing would have happened if the kid did the right thing. Lots of minor things end with police involvement, because there is nothing anyone else can do legally. This is a failure on her part, you cant sit there and tell me it's the schools fault she broke the rule. I dont care if she agrees with it or not, its the rules, and she said she would follow them. PERIOD.

Cops were a last ditch effort? This all happened within the space of a single school day. Probably within the space of a couple hours. Obviously the parents were not involved at all. That's not a last ditch effort. Sorry but short of someone being assaulted, there is no reason for a situation to escalate from a teacher warning to the police showing up within a few hours.

Obviously you didnt read the article, parents were involved (ok, parent, but good enough), which makes you an idiot. It only takes a few minutes for a girl to tell her teacher to bite the big one, and a few more minutes for the principle to realize, hey, we CANT DO SHIT here, so we have to call in someone who can handle this so we aren't liable for any crazy shit this girl may try to pull.

Actually, both parents were involved, because the dad and girl were texting back and forth during school hours, he should know better. So you have 1 parent partaking in it another avoiding all responsibility for it.

The schools are powerless? They obviously have the power to have your child searched and arrested on some retarded technicality without you even being informed. That's a lot of power.

Again, you didnt read the article, quit showing us how ignorant you are. And yes, the schools are powerless. Tell me what they can do? NOTHING. Beyond words (and only some words, because words can get you sued to if the kid can sound convincing enough to a judge) they can't do anything . Even if you get into a physical altercation, they are advised to stand down and call the cops because of liability issues, and I dont know if you heard, but rumor has it schools dont have big gobs of money to throw away at lawsuits.

The cops did the search because the ♥♥♥♥ lied to them and the cop seen where she hid it. Thats not the school, thats the cops. You take a gun in a bank and a banker calls the cops, the cops do the search, its their responsibility, not the bankers.

and finally

Yeah. Keeping you safe from all those 14 year old girls with their texting. You're ridiculous and need to read what you've posted.

I said that to show support for the cops which you are demonizing here. Im not saying Im afraid of little teenyboppers with cell phones, not sure how you got that, thats a hell of a stretch, but then again, so has everything else you've said.

Thanks for playing, better luck next time.

 

[Vaulter98c]

Thing is, kids text in my class occasionally, and I don't have an issue with it. When I started teaching, I was under the impression that they'd respect me more and follow the rules if I was a little more of a hard ass. That just made them not like me, and made them resist. You push them, they push back. Human nature, I suppose. A teacher should be nice, reasonable, and yet still respected. Believe it or not, I think that even a 14 year old girl can be reasoned with in a rational manner. Maybe the best way for the teacher to deal with this scenario was to let her text during class, and then confront her politely, after class, in a non-authoritative way. I might explain to her that while it isnt THAT big of a deal, it can distract other students. I'd ask her nicely if she could please keep it to a minimum in the future. I've found that if you have a good repotoire with your students beforehand, they usually respect you and do as you ask. Not as you DEMAND. Most people react negatively to another individual exerting direct control over them, or if they perceive that an authority figure has negatively judged them. At least for me, it's easier to convince them they WANT to actually follow the rules, and that I am there to help them and guide them. Maybe a root issue was that the teacher didn't know how to conduct themself so that students both respect you as their mentor and like actually you. (Or at least tolerate you).

great aproach, but one problem, if you read the article, she has a history with the school AND the cops
She's not a saint like you make her out to be

Typical authoritarians tend to have a good guy/bad guy mentality, and approach anyone they perceive as being out of line as a "bad apple" to be dealt with. I disagree with approaching this scenario with that mentality, because after all, she's just a 14 year old.

I didnt say kill her, I said punish her. The end goal of all of this should be that she learns from her mistake, (not the texting) and learns a bit about respect and lying. If she learns, then she can drive on and be a usefull person to society. If we let her keep getting away with latent disrespect and lying to the cops, and she already has a record, where does she go from here? Shouldnt we try to teach her a lesson but still have her continue her life? I mean, they gave her a citation, its a glorified parking ticket, it wont follow her around for more than 2 years, its gone after 18, who cares? If she learned a lesson from this, then you should all be happy. This isnt going to do shit to effect her future except maybe give her a learning experience.

 

[ordovician]

WOW. Vaulter, you're an angry motherf**er. lol.

Bif fail. Fail at your job for not enforcing a rule that keeps her from learning, its not about her disrupting the class at this point, its about her not learning, and thats what our tax dollars are for, for her to learn. She doesn't need to be texting in class, she is breaking a good rule that she agreed to obey, she should be paying attention and learning, or she should at least look like she's not waisting my tax dollars.
A kid is sleeping in your class. He's not disturbing anyone, but your as a teacher are failing him if you dont wake him up so he may learn an ounce of what you did that day, not to mention its VERY disrespectful. So, you as a teacher have failed your student by not correcting them, but letting them slack off and you let it happen. Where I come from, if a kid is being a twat, you help them by correcting them, because if you dont, sooner or later someone will, and I'd rather be corrected in school by a teacher than at my good paying job getting fired by my boss because im a twat.

The problem, though, is that discipline cannot create such a negative feeling in a child that it completely polarizes the child against everything the school represents. That's totally counterproductive. Do you really think this girl's being arrested HELPED her in the academic career?? If anything she just hates her school now.

 

[Manaknight]

great aproach, but one problem, if you read the article, she has a history with the school AND the cops
She's not a saint like you make her out to be



I didnt say kill her, I said punish her. The end goal of all of this should be that she learns from her mistake, (not the texting) and learns a bit about respect and lying. If she learns, then she can drive on and be a usefull person to society. If we let her keep getting away with latent disrespect and lying to the cops, and she already has a record, where does she go from here? Shouldnt we try to teach her a lesson but still have her continue her life? I mean, they gave her a citation, its a glorified parking ticket, it wont follow her around for more than 2 years, its gone after 18, who cares? If she learned a lesson from this, then you should all be happy. This isnt going to do shit to effect her future except maybe give her a learning experience.

can I ask what she should learn about respect? I'm actually sort of curious. I always held the belief that no one deserves my respect until they earn it, regardless of class, position or station in life. Just as i don't expect respected until i earn it either. Thats one of the reasons i never joined the military, soon as someone yells at me, i'm yelling back or questioning anything they say.

that aside also, what constitutes useful to society? I would most certainly be considered on the fringe if i read a lot of your posts correctly, as I disregard laws that do not coincide with my personal beliefs. And i got my education in technology from nonstandard means.

This isn't particularly baiting, I'd just like a more clarified response from someone who seems on the other end of the thought spectrum from myself

 

[ordovician]

great aproach, but one problem, if you read the article, she has a history with the school AND the cops
She's not a saint like you make her out to be

So you think she's the bad kid, as I mentioned a few posts ago. In reality, who knows. We all have issues in our lives. She may not be a saint (I doubt she is), but that doesn't mean that she's stupid or an emotional brick wall.

 

[Vaulter98c]

I never said that, I just said she is showing a pattern, not a first time offense like some are pushing towards

and Mana, I almost can relate to you, believe it or not. Im a strong believer in respect earned, not given, but my life has shown me that you cant be like that, You have to respect a person's position, not necessarily their person, but the title. I really dont jive well with Obama, but I respect his position. Partially because he's my boss, but because he made it there, so he gets my respect for him being the president. I dont like almost any of his views, but I still respect him as president. You need to respect others in the same way. And you made a good choice not joining the military, it would not work for you. But, more so in the military than any other job, the people with the title's have earned them and are there for a reason, so its not bad that you respect them. Every group in the world has a few lemons, but Ive had the least in this field than any other Ive worked.

again, ord, I didnt say burn her at the stake, but obviously whatever her parents are/are not doing isnt working, and the school is out of options, so they took the next viable step to help her out. Just because I may think shes a bad kid (I dont, a bitch, yes, but not bad, Ive worked with bad kids, murdering little bastards that feel no remorse) doesnt mean we should condemn her to something, but someone needs to drive a point across to this chick, and I bet this work'd

and can we put the whole arrest thing down? She got a citation, in this thread it sounds like we sent her to internment camp

And you are all trying to label me as something here, All I want to get across is that the girl is largely at fault, and that this wasnt as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Im not trying to say we should purge her or anything, but dont pass the buck, she's why she got into this mess. Parents didnt help her, but she's the one responsible

 

[Elios]

Those Laws are Unconstitutional and are in blatant, direct violation of the Bill of Rights. I have no fucking clue how public schools get around doing stupid shit like this.


Public school isn't free. Her parents paid to send her there through both state AND federal taxes. And most (as in >50%) of cops DO have bad attitudes and do far more bad than good.


I agree 100%. She didn't harm a damn soul.

Um, you're f-bombing like this and you're criticizing anti-government people, like myself, who support your inalienable right to do so 100%.

its perfectly legal they have been challenged may times and been up held
if your not 18 you have no rights
and by being enrolled in a public school your parents have agreed the you will follow there rules what ever they may be

 

[Elios]

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf...23825cd5d8d5693685256cca0055c0f8!OpenDocument


here is just some thing fast i found btw

Two-part Test for Student Searches

Student searches by school officials and school safety officers on public school property, school buses and at school events are justified if both parts of the following test are met: (3)

1. Search Justified at its Inception. The search must be justified at its inception, that is, there must be a reasonable suspicion that the search will reveal evidence of a crime or school rule violation.
2. Reasonable Scope. The search must be reasonably related in scope to the circumstances that justified the initial suspicion. In other words, a search is proper when the measures adopted are reasonably related to the objectives of the search and not excessively intrusive given the type of infraction and the age and gender of the student.

 

[Vaulter98c]

damn, this shits getting way too long

agree to disagree? I cant watch this any longer LOL

 

[supaspoon]

if your not 18 you have no rights

/thread

I didn't like it back in the day either, but that's the way it is. Get over it.

 

[djgizmo]

Cool!

So, how old are you and what do you do now for a living? I'd like to know...

If it's anything to do with your username, my guess is Help Desk or Level II Support and you're 23-27 making about $20-25k year.

As much as I think that computerpro3's situation is an exception and not the rule, WHO ARE YOU?

Just because you have some acronyms in your signature, and probably make decent money doesn't mean anything.

Are you king of any country? No
Are your president of any country? No
Have you cured cancer? No
Have you prevented a natural disaster? No

So what have you done in life to think you should talk down to another person because he chose a different path in a different highschool than you?

Money isn't happiness (although it does provide a person more choices in life). You need to rethink how talk about others or otherwise it could bite you back later in life. I've learned that as much as I value money, I'd rather be poor and doing something I love, than be rich and hate every minute of my job.

 

[computerpro3]

if your not 18 you have no rights

Sweet! Now that I'm enlightened with that bit of information, I'm going to just start shooting every minor I see on the street and taking their wallets.

 

[djgizmo]

And FWIW, my approach in calculus wasn't how I acted in all my classes. Half the teachers wanted to have me expelled, and I was the other half's favorite student. In classes which I deemed had little value to me, I just ignored them and learned more valuable things in that time. In classes that I deemed did have value, I enrolled in the AP curriculum, did independent studies, and got straight A's in them. My high school transcript from junior year has two grades on it - A+'s and F's.

Like I said, your situation for learning was the exception and not the rule. As for what is deemed valuable is up to each society or family. IMO, you learn more in class than just numbers / history / english etc etc. You learn how to pay attention on subjects that bore you to death. You learn how to study things that you hate at the moment. You also learn patience, empathy, and social interactivity. This is something you may have missed out on while you decided to do your own thing. I'm not saying you're a bad person for doing it, just saying you may have had an incomplete experience.

My point is, since when did the asswipes at the National Education Association suddenly become more qualified than you are when it comes to deciding on what your education should be comprised of?

Again, qualification comes from each society (in the USA, state standards). As Those that have walked the road before us have a vast amount of experience, which over time translates to wisdom in which how to best educate the next generation who have not gained that experience. As you know, you don't have the experience as your mentor/instructor does, does that make you more qualified than him to decide what your education should be comprised of?

These are answers that you need to take back with you and think about. Remember, no one knows it all, just most of us like to think we do.

 

[djgizmo]

If the parents don't discipline their kids, no private/public school is going to help short of bootcamp

I say bring back mr belt and the paddle and allow them in schools.

AMEN.

IMO, if parents that want to use the public school system to educate their children, they need to sign off that the teachers will be allowed to use almost any means needed to discipline the child, including corporal punishment.

When I was in school, I had detentions, in school suspensions, saturday detentions, out of school suspensions, and even was dragged down to juvi once (3rd grade, lot of stupid fights.) After all that, I still turn out fine.

 

[fubar569]

i said earlier...if we'd just beat children harder and more often...in the majority of cases problems would disappear almost instantly...

 

[Elios]

Sweet! Now that I'm enlightened with that bit of information, I'm going to just start shooting every minor I see on the street and taking their wallets.

fail more

rights != laws
you would still be breaking the law

 

[Cyrilix]

Sweet! Now that I'm enlightened with that bit of information, I'm going to just start shooting every minor I see on the street and taking their wallets.

Way to take a statement out of context.

 

[Manaknight]

fail more

rights != laws
you would still be breaking the law

everyone has rights.

or let me rephrase it. Everyone SHOULD have rights.

If we can bitch about aborted fetuses we can bitch about rights for children and teens. Hell african americans and women had no rights just a short time ago. How is this any different.

It's a failure of our system. It's pretty much a failure all around. Our education system is a failure. Someone mentioned why to respect the National Education Association... The bottom line is it's very hard, they DO NOT know how to best educate because everyone learns differently, instead they push a hard line approach that seeks out the lowest common denominator. So you get material that isn't useful being taught in a boring and unchallenging manner by people who are underpaid or not passionate about what they are doing to kids that are forced by law to be there. This turns into all children left behind.

Is it the parents fault that the girl is a bitch...Probably. But it still falls into a bigger picture that paints a highly outdated architecture of our society. This issue as i've said in reality was a non-issue until the police were involved. Even then its a small issue for the issue itself....It's implications and shortcomings that this issue has brought to surface. I think that is more important than what actually happened. This should be the proverbial "shot heard round the world"

 

[hophead]

The guy named Thomas was the teacher I believe. There are more pages of the police report linked at the bottom.

 

[ripken204]

this is why i loved my high school, i graduated just last year. the teachers do anything that they want to you. i often see teachers smacking kids in the head, throwing things at kids, screaming/swearing at them, dragging them down the hall, throwing them over desks. a teacher even punched a kid in the face a few years back and the kid got in trouble for it.

 

[computerpro3]

everyone has rights.

or let me rephrase it. Everyone SHOULD have rights.

If we can bitch about aborted fetuses we can bitch about rights for children and teens. Hell african americans and women had no rights just a short time ago. How is this any different.

It's a failure of our system. It's pretty much a failure all around. Our education system is a failure. Someone mentioned why to respect the National Education Association... The bottom line is it's very hard, they DO NOT know how to best educate because everyone learns differently, instead they push a hard line approach that seeks out the lowest common denominator. So you get material that isn't useful being taught in a boring and unchallenging manner by people who are underpaid or not passionate about what they are doing to kids that are forced by law to be there. This turns into all children left behind.

Is it the parents fault that the girl is a bitch...Probably. But it still falls into a bigger picture that paints a highly outdated architecture of our society. This issue as i've said in reality was a non-issue until the police were involved. Even then its a small issue for the issue itself....It's implications and shortcomings that this issue has brought to surface. I think that is more important than what actually happened. This should be the proverbial "shot heard round the world"

Exactly. Of course my statement was out of context, but I was using it to show how dumb the statement that "minors don't have any rights" is. Minors have plenty of rights. Not as many as adults, of course, but they still have them.

 

[computerpro3]

For example, minors have right to legal counsel.

 

[PeteLightning]

i said earlier...if we'd just beat children harder and more often...in the majority of cases problems would disappear almost instantly...

I remember changing my attitude instantly any time I heard "the belt" come out of my parents mouth.