Streaming MKV's, how are you doing it?

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EndersShadow

[H]ard|Gawd
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Dec 27, 2008
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So right now I've got a WD Live TV w a attached 3 TB USB HDD. Its almost full, and of course my library will continue to grow, if slow at times. The "original" goal of this setup was a proof of concept on how a HTPC could work, and how nice it would be to have my entire library ripped to it for easy access. I know I could just attach another one since it its got 2 USB ports, but that gets a little wonky....

Im curious how others of you are streaming your ripped MKV's, and what you've used and didnt like etc....

I've thought about building a small HTPC with the ability to connect up to 4 HDD's but its gonna run about 500 bucks to build a decent one, a cost which isn't "horrible" since its expandable as I run out of space up to about 12 TB's which is more than I would ever need anytime soon.

I could just put a 4 TB HDD in my main computer and set it up as a network share for my WD Live TV to see, but I'm concerned about the possibility of lag given my network is entirely wireless. Its wireless N, but still wireless. I could also get a 5 GHz capable router, but at that point, I'm at ~200-300 and then why not build a standalone HTPC...

Thoughts, suggestions, etc appreciated.

I should mention my library is all UNCOMPRESSED MKV's ripped with the DTS-MA and True-HD soundtracks ONLY, hence using the WD Live which can do lossless audio. Im not interested in compressing the movies either.
 
I run Plex on a dedicated server. It can handle streaming MKV and HD audio straight through to another htpc, but most little set top boxes force it to transcode on the fly down to standard DD5.1. The automatic transcoding is probably my favorite feature so I don't have to handle multiple copies of the same file for multiple devices streaming.
 
I use Plex also. Server runs on an older MacMini (2.4 C2D, 6GB RAM), and it transcodes 1080p just fine, as well as serving up Plex Home Theater app via HDMI.

As for endpoints, I've used Xbox One, Roku, iPad, and web streaming through the Plex website when I'm away from home. It's all been flawless.

I have the content served up on a QNAP 4-bay NAS with a Raid-5 array (4x3TB).

I have a lot of other friends who use Plex also, and it's nice to be able to share libraries with each other.
 
Another soon-to-be-Plexster here.

Just filled out my 8TB external on the htpc, so am building a 40TB Freenas/plex server. Absolute overkill, but will allow plenty of concurrent HD/UHD streams. Endpoints will be HTPC/laptops/tablets/etc throughout the home, haven't considered Sling-like functionality, but could probably set that up at some point.
 
Ok, so you guys are saying that your movies get compressed when sent to your source devices correct?

I'd prefer to avoid dealing with that (actually thats a deal-breaker). I'm really wanting to make sure I get a solution that ensures I'm getting a 1080p lossless audio.
 
1080p mkv streams fine with my qnap nas over a gigabit network and also over my unifi ap 2.4ghz network without issues.

i dont see any loss of frames or lag.

it plays fine with vlc player and on my xbmc PC :D
 
EndersShadow said:
Ok, so you guys are saying that your movies get compressed when sent to your source devices correct?

I'd prefer to avoid dealing with that (actually thats a deal-breaker). I'm really wanting to make sure I get a solution that ensures I'm getting a 1080p lossless audio.
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The streams only get compressed when streaming to a device that can't handle the full stream (older roku's, phones, usually anything remote across the internet and such). If your network and end device can handle the source, Plex will send it straight through.
 
EndersShadow said:
Ok, so you guys are saying that your movies get compressed when sent to your source devices correct?

I'd prefer to avoid dealing with that (actually thats a deal-breaker). I'm really wanting to make sure I get a solution that ensures I'm getting a 1080p lossless audio.
Click to expand...

As others have mentioned, it only compresses (transcodes) if the pipe / endpoint can't handle it. Keep in mind, a really high bitrate UHD stream (something like Timescapes) is in the 500Mbps neighborhood, so you'll want to make sure your home network is up to it (or go local to whatever device you want to use).
 
Gotcha. See I don't have a NAS yet and if I go with a NAS then that's another cost and then add another for a device capable of streaming it plus likely a new router.....

For right now we don't stream (play may be a better word) movies anywhere but in one room where this would be... In the future we "might" stream to our bedroom (quality I longer a factor) and maybe maybe maybe our daughters room in 3 years meaning it doesn't really matter...

So maybe I just need to build a HTPC since I mostly need a single room situation that I can add more than 1 hard drive too....
 
If the need for max-quality playing is at a single location and cost is a limiting factor, I'd go the HTPC route (direct-connect to the display device).

I'm sure you know, though, that a noise increase in the living room tends to reduce the WAF of any streaming/playing solution ;) (that's why I ended up going with a passively-cooled NUC + external that I can turn on/off when we just want to stream)
 
I mentioned earlier I also use my Mac Mini's HDMI out to display the Plex Home Theater app on my main TV/theater and it goes through a HDMI receiver. It just plays the native MKV from the mac app.

I know that there's transcoding going on when sent to my Roku 3, but I also have that one on a 60" 1080p, and don't notice any discernible lack of quality. From what I've seen, when streaming to the XboxOne Plex app, that does seem to bring through the DD/DTS 5.1 signal from the MKVs that have it.
 
A few months ago I read about the chrome box and installing Kodi on it, so I got one and its been fantastic. I stream from a couple NAS's on my network, but if you don't have a NAS you can plug several external hard drives into the chrome box and stream from them locally, great little box.
 
Machupo said:
If the need for max-quality playing is at a single location and cost is a limiting factor, I'd go the HTPC route (direct-connect to the display device).

I'm sure you know, though, that a noise increase in the living room tends to reduce the WAF of any streaming/playing solution ;) (that's why I ended up going with a passively-cooled NUC + external that I can turn on/off when we just want to stream)
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Yup that's why I'm trying to find a build with the fewest fans and heat buildup.

nullvector said:
I mentioned earlier I also use my Mac Mini's HDMI out to display the Plex Home Theater app on my main TV/theater and it goes through a HDMI receiver. It just plays the native MKV from the mac app.

I know that there's transcoding going on when sent to my Roku 3, but I also have that one on a 60" 1080p, and don't notice any discernible lack of quality. From what I've seen, when streaming to the XboxOne Plex app, that does seem to bring through the DD/DTS 5.1 signal from the MKVs that have it.
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Does the Plex app do DTS-MA and True-HD. That's my biggest concern. My library is largely blu ray rips. From what I remember I thought the Macs couldn't do that, and they had a problem w 1080p, but it's been a bit.


ashman said:
A few months ago I read about the chrome box and installing Kodi on it, so I got one and its been fantastic. I stream from a couple NAS's on my network, but if you don't have a NAS you can plug several external hard drives into the chrome box and stream from them locally, great little box.
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You mean like a chromebox laptop? Or are you talking about something else?

That COULD be an option if I can ensure my network can handle streaming that much data...

I am going to try and stream from my WD live one of my blu Ray rips and see how that works.....

I've heard rumors the Fire TV And maybe even the chrome stick thing can but haven't verified it....
 
I just use an HTPC with XBMC with MPC-HC with MadVR.
 
I'll still take Universal Media Server over Plex any day but I use HTPCs more. I used to use UMS with my PS3 but not so often these days.

Plex might work if it would actually be compatible with media files. I've tried multiple versions on multiple PCs over the years (most recently around 6 months ago) and it always has problems with a LOT of my files. To me, Plex is completely useless and it boggles my mind how you guys have positive experiences with it. PS3 Media Server (which Universal Media Server is based on) used to have problems with some of my files but never as badly as Plex and they seem to have fixed the issues with every single file I previously had issues with a while back.
 
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Used to use XBMC and have a central file server. Now moved to purely PLEX. It will bit stream DTS-HD and TrueHD. When using the HTPC application on the client it will give you full quality no transcoding. But the ability to sync media to your devices for offline playback. Steam anywhere in the world.

Seriously give the free version a go youll be impressed. Only issiue for me is the lack of open source make it harder to tie everything together.
 
Yes, Plex will pass through HD audio. It'll pass through anything you give it actually. It's up to the end device and what it reports that it can play as to IF Plex passes it though. If you do Plex on a HTPC then it will play what you have on the HD just like any media player.

If you are not going to stream to other locations and only play on a local HTPC though, I'd try out the free alternatives as you won't need the features of services like Plex really.
 
wdeydwondrer said:
Yes, Plex will pass through HD audio. It'll pass through anything you give it actually. It's up to the end device and what it reports that it can play as to IF Plex passes it though. If you do Plex on a HTPC then it will play what you have on the HD just like any media player.

If you are not going to stream to other locations and only play on a local HTPC though, I'd try out the free alternatives as you won't need the features of services like Plex really.
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I will be using my computer upstairs to house all the media, and then at least one device to stream in my HT room, and likely use the Roku to stream in my bedroom....

If the WD doesnt drop out all the time, I may just stick with that downstairs, otherwise will look for either a Kodi or Plex alternative that will get TrueHD or DTS-MA...

Or I may move the box down there if I have to, not my preference as I'd have to build another computer upstairs, but not totally out of the realm of possibility.
 
dandragonrage I am curious what kind of codecs your stuff is encoded in because other than the occasional file, I have had very little problems from plex to: roku 2xs, roku 3, ipad, android, iphone : both locally and over the internet. I am talking about maybe a few episodes out of 250+ tv series or 1000+ movies.
 
rhansen5_99 said:
dandragonrage I am curious what kind of codecs your stuff is encoded in because other than the occasional file, I have had very little problems from plex to: roku 2xs, roku 3, ipad, android, iphone : both locally and over the internet. I am talking about maybe a few episodes out of 250+ tv series or 1000+ movies.
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Mostly x264 (generally high profile - some are 10-bit "hi10p" and many are not - and every single one of them play on my PC and with Universal Media Server just fine) in Matroska (MKV) and MP4. I would literally say Plex does NOT work with more of my files than it does work for. It's awful! Honestly the worst media server I have ever tried because of this.
 
You have some other problem if Plex won't play that many files. I've actually not had a single file screw up. It's PRIMARILY down to what the end device can play.
 
WDTV Live most of the time right now. I have a ROKU3 with PLEX server setup on my main PC however I find some stuff just won't stream at all when it works perfectly fine on my WD...
 
dR.Jester said:
WDTV Live most of the time right now. I have a ROKU3 with PLEX server setup on my main PC however I find some stuff just won't stream at all when it works perfectly fine on my WD...
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I've heard of folks having LAG when using a network source with a WD Live TV... have you had that happen at all, and if so what did you do to overcome it?
 
I can stream MKV BD rips with Roku 3 using Plex or through the Oppo BDP 103 player. Which one I use depends on whether I start by watching movies on the Oppo or streaming with Roku 3. I prefer the simple directory-based navigation on the Oppo vs. Plex since I haven't gone through and organized my library into movies and series. I have my stuff scattered over 4 disk arrays ( 20TB Oyen Digital Mobius 5, 15TB Synology DS1513+, and two 6TB AMS Venus, so it is a bit harder to organize using Plex.
 
in my experience: WD TV, roku, and other similar boxes are not better than a raspberry pi with xbmc. and there are more powerful xbmc boxes than raspberry pi. so my advice to any geek wanting a video player is.... get an xbmc box.

they're available at every price point. ARM is cheaper but less powerful and mature. intel is best, but more expensive. the CHROMEBOX (dell/hp/etc sell the same thing) is hackable into the most perfect XBMC box. it's a secret that people apparently don't want to talk about because it's so damn good. it's basically stealing from google and friends, who seem to subsidize this stuff to get you into the google ecosystem, which you promptly blow away when you install XBMC/kodi. not very much money is being made by anyone on chromebox... and so it's the best deal for the geek consumer.
 
dandragonrage said:
Mostly x264 (generally high profile - some are 10-bit "hi10p" and many are not - and every single one of them play on my PC and with Universal Media Server just fine) in Matroska (MKV) and MP4. I would literally say Plex does NOT work with more of my files than it does work for. It's awful! Honestly the worst media server I have ever tried because of this.
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Is your info dated? I found Plex buggy 3 or so years ago, its vastly improved.
 
I concur, the Chromebox is a fantastic setup and plays everything, totally worth the money and you can control it easily with a PS3 remote since the Chromebox has bluetooth built in.
 
bAMtan2 said:
in my experience: WD TV, roku, and other similar boxes are not better than a raspberry pi with xbmc. and there are more powerful xbmc boxes than raspberry pi. so my advice to any geek wanting a video player is.... get an xbmc box.

they're available at every price point. ARM is cheaper but less powerful and mature. intel is best, but more expensive. the CHROMEBOX (dell/hp/etc sell the same thing) is hackable into the most perfect XBMC box. it's a secret that people apparently don't want to talk about because it's so damn good. it's basically stealing from google and friends, who seem to subsidize this stuff to get you into the google ecosystem, which you promptly blow away when you install XBMC/kodi. not very much money is being made by anyone on chromebox... and so it's the best deal for the geek consumer.
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I will look into that, thanks....

I've "started" my journey by buying a GD-08b case to transplant my current computer upstairs into. I will get that build handled, get a nice big 4 TB drive in it and then look at a Chromebox for downstairs maybe after ensuring my network is up to the task of streaming.... The new case upstairs has enough HDD space (and its the right form factor) for me to be able to keep adding HDD's to it.

Otherwise I do have a 3 TB drive I could use locally with a Chromebox while I work on my network....

Last question on XBMC/Kodi.... how does it handle if movies are across different drives? I've never had my movies on more than 1 hard drive. Will it list all the movies across multiple drives, or should I segment the drives (ie one for Adults, one for Kids like I have the folder structure on my current external)?
 
EndersShadow said:
Last question on XBMC/Kodi.... how does it handle if movies are across different drives? I've never had my movies on more than 1 hard drive. Will it list all the movies across multiple drives, or should I segment the drives (ie one for Adults, one for Kids like I have the folder structure on my current external)?
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You just add each drive/folder as a source, and it displays all movies across multiple drives/folders. I have 4 sources listed for my "Movies" section...all on different hard drives. When browsing my "Movies", everything is listed together and you could not tell they were on different drives.
 
jpm100 said:
Is your info dated? I found Plex buggy 3 or so years ago, its vastly improved.
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Like I said before, last time I tried it was under a year ago. I am completely baffled at how it could possibly work well for most of you.
 
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if Your 3TB is only almost full, double your storage and unload your 3TB to reduce the overall cost of investment.

at most $200 invested and you don't have to teach the family or yourself a new system.
 
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Kelvarr said:
You just add each drive/folder as a source, and it displays all movies across multiple drives/folders. I have 4 sources listed for my "Movies" section...all on different hard drives. When browsing my "Movies", everything is listed together and you could not tell they were on different drives.
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Awesome thanks!
 
SticKx911 said:
if Your 3TB is only almost full, double your storage and unload your 3TB to reduce the overall cost of investment.

at most $200 invested and you don't have to teach the family or yourself a new system.
Click to expand...

I might do that or just get a 4 TB external.... For now I don't add as many movies as I used to but I want expandability in the future. Or at least be building toward that.
 
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EndersShadow said:
I might do that or just get a 4 TB external.... For now I don't add as many movies as I used to but I want expandability in the future. Or at least be building toward that.
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At that rate, every time you need to expand there will be a bigger external to upgrade to. I'm not suggesting the WD will live forever, but going the plex route seems like a lot of work if you'll never use most of its features.
 
SticKx911 said:
At that rate, every time you need to expand there will be a bigger external to upgrade to. I'm not suggesting the WD will live forever, but going the plex route seems like a lot of work if you'll never use most of its features.
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Yup. The new case was needed regardless to put it in my stereo rack so we will see.

I'm still debating a HTPC or Chromebox to stream from my main system so I can do that in the bedroom AND HT.
 
Right now I am building my first full HTPC, but on the backend I run Nas4Free with Plex, Transmission & Sickrage all in Jails. I can stream to anything HTPC/AppleTV/Roku/Chomecast/iPad/iPhone/Amazon Fire/Android/Xbox/PS and the list goes on! Also I just went from 24tb to 36tb to 48tb without downtime other than to reboot when I switched drives out from 1tb to 2tb to 4tb. I would never use an external system.
 
Plex on a dedicated server here. Gigabit ethernet through the house, and plain old hard drives in the machine.
 
Doesn't look like anyone has mentioned it yet, but I preferred mediabrowser backend to plex when I set everything up a year ago. I'm sure things have changed and the environment is different now, but it works well for me.

OP, both plex and mediabrowser are back ends and function as library tenders for whatever media you have stored. They also both do transcoding, which is what some people refer to when they say "stream." If you transcode you most likely lose your audio format (dolby digital, DTS-MA, etc) and your video will have its quality altered. People transcode in order to get media down to a bitrate that both the end device (such as a cell phone) and the network (such as a WAN connection where you're watching a video from a hotel that's stored on your server) can handle. Most people do not transcode (that I know of) within their household. I'm unsure of how plex handles transcoding vs. simply using something along the lines of samba to read the file, but mediabrowser usually prefers to just "direct" you to the file which is shared over samba, then you can play it directly from where it is stored as though it were on the same computer as it's playing on. This is the same as simply navigating your network to the media on the other PC and playing it from there.
 
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