Stop Paying For Anti-Virus

[IdiotInCharge]

MS built-in has been good enough for fricking years, who the hell still pays for extra AV(spyware)

More of a multiple-vendors thing. Make systems harder to fingerprint etc.

 

[Shoganai]

I don't trust Microsoft because of their crap updates and BS with telemetry so I'm in the market for a different AV program. Paid if necessary....

How much do I have to pay in order to NOT be spied on?

I’ve been using BitDefender for years and it’s pretty great, honestly.

 

[OutOfPhase]

I use ESET, and have had unknown (new, no sigs yet) malware flagged by its heuristics a couple times on kids' machines over the years (in addition to normal nasties detected and avoided). Also, it's blazing fast and you can configure it to completely shut up in normal operation. It's slower than nothing, but in my usage, dramatically faster than defender - especially for development.

Yes, we're working on "things to not do" with the teens, but they don't always use the best judgement - which is why we don't let them vote yet. If some site shows an icon of a boobie or a free game, well, better hope ChromerFox doesn't have any current zero-days, because that icon is getting clicked.

And then of course these machines are in an untrusted subnet, cannot see adults' machines. As IdiotInCharge said, defense in depth.

 

[Jim Kim]

I like Eugene, at least what I know of him.

I also know that his company is one FSB visit away from becoming a state espionage organ, if it isn't already.

And Norton is totes safe?

https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
We can go down this road all day long, difference being you won't like the destination.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

And Norton is totes safe?

https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
We can go down this road all day long, difference being you won't like the destination.

You can go down the road where you argue against points that I did not make all you like, on your own.

 

[B00nie]

Probably Lindows. I've not played with it, but I used Linux Mint through a few versions, and it was horrible on the network. Could not see anything on the Windows machines. So, no more Linux for me.

LOL so due to Windows being uncapable or you configuring it wrong, no more the better system? Your logic is marvelous.

 

[IndyJoe1977]

Windows was more than capable. It could see shares on the Linux Mint machine, but not the reverse. Home group/workgroup was configured right. My logic works. The versions of Linux I have tried have always been poor to integrate in to a Windows network. I used it for the security of it alone. But, now and then, shared files were nice. Windows did its job just fine. Seriously, I wish the opposite had been true. I like Mint.

 

[B00nie]

Windows was more than capable. It could see shares on the Linux Mint machine, but not the reverse. Home group/workgroup was configured right. My logic works. The versions of Linux I have tried have always been poor to integrate in to a Windows network. I used it for the security of it alone. But, now and then, shared files were nice. Windows did its job just fine. Seriously, I wish the opposite had been true. I like Mint.

Nevertheless it's Microsofts fault for not making the file sharing compatible.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

LOL so due to Windows being uncapable or you configuring it wrong, no more the better system? Your logic is marvelous.

...and I'm over here running ZFS on CentOS sharing SMB to Windows 10 like it's going out of style...

I'm not even a script-kiddie-level Linux user yet, and I can figure it out? Do people here really give up that easily?

 

[Rockenrooster]

I haven't used any antivirus on my machine for about a year now, I even have defender disabled.
It just got annoying, defender trying to scan everything I was doing slowing things down. Copying files from SSD to SSD wouldn't be full speed because defender just had to scan it while copying. Also causing my dedicated server to be slow to start up for whatever reason. Apparently my extensive exclusion list including the entire E: drive (where all this stuff takes place) isn't enough so I freaking disabled it entirely. And what do you know, everything runs faster now! Now the only thing I have left to figure out is why large self extracting archives take forever to even open on my machine while to the exact same archive opens INSTANTLY on a Win 7 Potato with an SSD. Consent UI for adminis.....exe apparently is scanning something even though UAC is also disabled on my machine. Its a Win10 only issue and is super annoying....
I have it this way because no one else uses my computer, if anyone else used my computer I would need to at least turn Defender back on lol.

 

[Jim Kim]

https://threatpost.com/thousands-of-pcs-affected-by-nodersok-divergent-malware/148733/

 

[Jim Kim]

Nevertheless it's Microsofts fault for not making the file sharing compatible.

It's Honda's fault for not making their pistons compatible with Toyota.

 

[B00nie]

It's Honda's fault for not making their pistons compatible with Toyota.

Network sharing standards are not comparable to different engines but nice try. You know very well that Microsoft is knowingly making its systems incompatible with the competition.
It's more like having a dominant market position and making your engines run on fuel that's not compatible with other brands - and only you know the recipe.

 

[Deleted member 134608]

I don't understand why this is such a big deal anymore.

I managed to train all my completely hopeless friends and family to avoid infection.

If you have a Windows computer:

1) Google whatever you are looking for or check email
2) Hover over every link or image before click it. Always. Fail to do this and you will pay dearly.
3) If the browser pop up / status bar is www.wehavetruckloadsofmoneytohiregoodITpeople.whatever, (msn.com, cnn.com, walmart.com, ebay.com, etc.) go ahead and click. If you can't find what you want from massively recognized name (watch pirate moovies on stream website, visit some unknown or local business page for example), go to next step 4

4) Use an iPad, Mac or PS4 or some other locked down (no Windows or even Android!) thing to do your questionable surfing / streaming.

Once this is drilled in their heads, I rarely or never hear from them again.

If you are really desperate because they just don't listen, check out Elemental OS. Its basically Mac linux with its own app store for dummies.

 

[Hatriot]

Network sharing standards are not comparable to different engines but nice try. You know very well that Microsoft is knowingly making its systems incompatible with the competition.
It's more like having a dominant market position and making your engines run on fuel that's not compatible with other brands - and only you know the recipe.

Geez you guys. Come on man. Did you ever work with Novell? When MS LAN manager and netbios came into being there were no "network sharing standards". To say they are going out of their way to make it incompatible just shows your limited experience. More like linux at the time was even less of the market share than it is now, so it was not even on their radar. There was more interest in IBM OS2 than any Linux outside of the basements of houses who no other kid ever visited. Hell there were more UNIX and Solaris systems back then in the enterprise than linux. In fact, MS is now going out of their way to attempt to play nice with Linux more than they ever have. Bottom line is that the users of Linux don't want it to be popular.

Back on topic. Anyone ever worked for an organization that has been hit by ransomware. Worse than any virus or malware and it is not even close. The monetary damage is about as bad as just having your business burn down.

 

[sharknice]

I recently read that Microsoft's built-in anti-virus/anti-malware is one of if not the best solutions out there right now.

The crazy part for me too is that Dell still includes shit like McAfee with every computer they sell... it always surprises me when I see it because I keep wondering how they are still in business when there are so many free solutions that are not only better but don't screw up the performance of your system. But I know that the majority of people who buy retail never install Windows fresh to get rid of their bloatware. Lots of people I am sure still think they need that stuff though.

Yep. McAfee pays Dell to include it and the people buying Dells think they need it so they pay for the subscription when the "included 60 day free subscription" runs out and they get all sorts of scary warnings they'll be unprotected.

 

[The Mad Atheist]

My go 2s are MSE, Spybot S&D, SpywareBlasters, and common sense, no problems as to date.

 

[B00nie]

Back on topic. Anyone ever worked for an organization that has been hit by ransomware. Worse than any virus or malware and it is not even close. The monetary damage is about as bad as just having your business burn down.

So I guess you worked for an organization that made several huge mistakes like having Windows workstations and no off-site backups lol.

 

[B00nie]

Yep. McAfee pays Dell to include it and the people buying Dells think they need it so they pay for the subscription when the "included 60 day free subscription" runs out and they get all sorts of scary warnings they'll be unprotected.

McAfee is in reality malware. It slips in through many freeware installation packages if the user is not careful and it taints many factory installations also. How sweet is it to get a new computer that has low level system hooks placed by a hack-job AV suite.

 

[Uvaman2]

It was never ending...just too different for her. Couldn't get her online puzzle web site game to work (I'm guessing a flash plugin problem)... didn't like the free office alternative (i forget which one, libre maybe), wifi kept disconnecting and couldn't figure out anything because it was different. etc etc. But she's old and resistant to change... oh she cried her eyes out when her win 7 upgraded itself to 10. But at least she can (mostly) use 10. Couldn't get her printer working, scanner, etc. Also I can remote support that with teamviewer etc but not so much on linux. Her much beloved Hoyle card/board games didn't work...etc.

If someone in the linux world could come up with something that looked just like win 7 with same menus etc that would be great, but then MS would sue them into oblivion. (and yes I am aware of a build that looks sorta like Win 7 but I forget the name)

The short answer is, don't set elderly parents in front of a linux desktop and expect miracles to happen. If you're reading this forum, we could probably find a workaround to most problems/issues/compatibilty. Trying to walk my 70 yr old mother through anything in linux on the phone made me want to kill myself.

I've tried to get them all to buy macs (which I won't support, LOL) but they cost too much, even old used ones

edit - this is all off topic anyway, I'm sure there's a forum for why the elderly can't use linux

Zorin OS is a good one, you can get a distro with tons of software (open source I assume) for 40$ to support them (all other liter versions are free).

The biggest hurdle with linux is the fucking console... Yes very powerful... If you know how to use it... No I don't know, ( i can go about it as if blinfolded in a maze... Searching for help and whatever, but is a tremendous pain) and the learning curve is super steep (saying other wise is a lie). Destop linux needs the effin console dead, they need a visual OS/ interface just for the console, one that actually works.

 

[nilepez]

I don't understand why this is such a big deal anymore.

I managed to train all my completely hopeless friends and family to avoid infection.

If you have a Windows computer:

1) Google whatever you are looking for or check email
2) Hover over every link or image before click it. Always. Fail to do this and you will pay dearly.
3) If the browser pop up / status bar is www.wehavetruckloadsofmoneytohiregoodITpeople.whatever, (msn.com, cnn.com, walmart.com, ebay.com, etc.) go ahead and click. If you can't find what you want from massively recognized name (watch pirate moovies on stream website, visit some unknown or local business page for example), go to next step 4

4) Use an iPad, Mac or PS4 or some other locked down (no Windows or even Android!) thing to do your questionable surfing / streaming.

Once this is drilled in their heads, I rarely or never hear from them again.

If you are really desperate because they just don't listen, check out Elemental OS. Its basically Mac linux with its own app store for dummies.

There are attacks on plain old web sites (often ones i"ve been on many times before) that AV software catches and if you didn't have it, you wouldn't know it happened. In the past, I've seen it on H and anandtech, to name but 2 instances. Not everything is controlled by the site you're on and shit happens...and I block most java script by default.

I'm fine paying virtually nothing for a year of Norton. Even if I bought it in the next few weeks, I'd probably find a 10 seat copy (and I could go down to 5 these days) for under 30 bucks. With patience I'll find it for under 20 and if I'm really lucky, free (AR).

But hey, if doing nothing works for you, go for it. I use to do that up until 10 years ago. Now, I'd rather not mess with it. If MS gets the false positives down to almost 0, I'll switch, but false positives are too annoying.

 

[DrLobotomy]

Just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.

 

[Staples]

While we are on the subject of internet security, is it possible to run Windows defender scans while you are running an instance of MS Sandbox? Not many things are available working MS sandbox unless you install them. I’d like to install programs and then scan whether there are any viruses installed within the sandbox.

 

[Jim Kim]

While we are on the subject of internet security, is it possible to run Windows defender scans while you are running an instance of MS Sandbox? Not many things are available working MS sandbox unless you install them. I’d like to install programs and then scan whether there are any viruses installed within the sandbox.

Windows Defender Antivirus has hit a new milestone: the built-in antivirus capabilities on Windows can now run within a sandbox
https://www.microsoft.com/security/...-defender-antivirus-can-now-run-in-a-sandbox/

 

[IdiotInCharge]

While we are on the subject of internet security, is it possible to run Windows defender scans while you are running an instance of MS Sandbox? Not many things are available working MS sandbox unless you install them. I’d like to install programs and then scan whether there are any viruses installed within the sandbox.

Sandbox is cool, but it needs more time in the oven. Primarily the ability for 'persistent' instances. Need to be able to build it up to a point and have that be a selectable starting point so you're not constantly reinstalling stuff.

 

[Deleted member 134608]

There are attacks on plain old web sites (often ones i"ve been on many times before) that AV software catches and if you didn't have it, you wouldn't know it happened. In the past, I've seen it on H and anandtech, to name but 2 instances. Not everything is controlled by the site you're on and shit happens...and I block most java script by default.

I'm fine paying virtually nothing for a year of Norton. Even if I bought it in the next few weeks, I'd probably find a 10 seat copy (and I could go down to 5 these days) for under 30 bucks. With patience I'll find it for under 20 and if I'm really lucky, free (AR).

But hey, if doing nothing works for you, go for it. I use to do that up until 10 years ago. Now, I'd rather not mess with it. If MS gets the false positives down to almost 0, I'll switch, but false positives are too annoying.

Almost every single computer someone payed me to clean infections from, and I have done countless thousands, had a current up to date Norton installed. If you are developing malware, you are going to make sure that the biggest AV provider in history can't see or stop it. You couldn't pay me to use it.

 

[d3athf1sh]

I haven't used any antivirus on my machine for about a year now, I even have defender disabled.
It just got annoying, defender trying to scan everything I was doing slowing things down. Copying files from SSD to SSD wouldn't be full speed because defender just had to scan it while copying. Also causing my dedicated server to be slow to start up for whatever reason. Apparently my extensive exclusion list including the entire E: drive (where all this stuff takes place) isn't enough so I freaking disabled it entirely. And what do you know, everything runs faster now! Now the only thing I have left to figure out is why large self extracting archives take forever to even open on my machine while to the exact same archive opens INSTANTLY on a Win 7 Potato with an SSD. Consent UI for adminis.....exe apparently is scanning something even though UAC is also disabled on my machine. Its a Win10 only issue and is super annoying....
I have it this way because no one else uses my computer, if anyone else used my computer I would need to at least turn Defender back on lol.

well be careful if you use that machine to surf the net. I don't have AV start with windows because i don't use it when i am gaming but when on the net (i use ESET NOD32) every once in a while it catches things here and there on sites where you wouldn't normally expect to catch an infection. who knows maybe they have poor security and someone hacked their site to infect computers for them? idk. maybe give them (eset) a shot. it's pretty light on resources. was the first "gaming av" because of how light it was. and still actually has a gaming mode buried in the settings.

 

[Deleted member 134608]

well be careful if you use that machine to surf the net. I don't have AV start with windows because i don't use it when i am gaming but when on the net (i use ESET NOD32) every once in a while it catches things here and there on sites where you wouldn't normally expect to catch an infection. who knows maybe they have poor security and someone hacked their site to infect computers for them? idk. maybe give them (eset) a shot. it's pretty light on resources. was the first "gaming av" because of how light it was. and still actually has a gaming mode buried in the settings.

If you are going to use something, I do believe that smaller vendors are the way to go. NOD32 or Emsisoft tend to be lean on resources and aren't popular enough that malware coders would bother to test against them.

 

[snowcrash]

This is why malware is such a huge business. The more articles that tell you windows defender is good enough, the happier they are. They should all band together and make a concerted effort to get everyone to use Defender only.

 

[Jim Kim]

Almost every single computer someone payed me to clean infections from, and I have done countless thousands, had a current up to date Norton installed. If you are developing malware, you are going to make sure that the biggest AV provider in history can't see or stop it. You couldn't pay me to use it.

We exist in a multi threat world. That means you need multiple programs for protection and I don't mean having 2 av programs.
Choose whatever free or paid av program you like combined with Malwarebytes Pro.

 

[cybereality]

well be careful if you use that machine to surf the net.

Yeah, I agree 100%. I've gotten malware attempts blocked by my anti-virus from just visiting a site from a Google search. And these were not pirate sites or anything like that. You can never be too safe.

 

[clockdogg]

Yeah, I agree 100%. I've gotten malware attempts blocked by my anti-virus from just visiting a site from a Google search. And these were not pirate sites or anything like that. You can never be too safe.

And Google is the largest, richest, provider/distributor of malware. Although FB is right up there. Microsoft, despite their OS telemetry advantage, is late to the game. Again.

 

[Deleted member 134608]

And Google is the largest, richest, provider/distributor of malware. Although FB is right up there. Microsoft, despite their OS telemetry advantage, is late to the game. Again.

Chrome is the new IE. All the malware add ons I have seen reminds me of the toolbar days lol

 

[dark_reign]

Can't remember the last time I had a virus, but I haven't used torrents in ages. Windows Defender, Malwarebytes and SuperAntispyware (free versions) is good enough.

 

[d3athf1sh]

Can't remember the last time I had a virus, but I haven't used torrents in ages. Windows Defender, Malwarebytes and SuperAntispyware (free versions) is good enough.

believe it or not most torrents are pretty clean these days, well for movies and music. now you start grabbing cracked games then you're prob taking a risk? but it's your isp you have to watch out for w/ torrents these days. with cox, ever since they lost that lawsuit, they'll shut your internet down before you're even done downloading the file. and when you call up to tell them your internet's out they will say well it looks like you were downloading "such and such dot mp4" which is a copyrighted file. then you have to play dumb and they'll tell you to reset your wifi password and they'll turn it back on. But yeah, that's what made me finally get a VPN.

 

[d3athf1sh]

Windows Defender, Malwarebytes and SuperAntispyware (free versions) is good enough.

how easy is it to disable completely disable windows defender for gaming though? don't you have to use a registry hack or group policy? see i'm still using win7 as long as i can. and i like to get as many FPS as possible.

 

[Sycraft]

well be careful if you use that machine to surf the net. I don't have AV start with windows because i don't use it when i am gaming but when on the net (i use ESET NOD32) every once in a while it catches things here and there on sites where you wouldn't normally expect to catch an infection. who knows maybe they have poor security and someone hacked their site to infect computers for them? idk. maybe give them (eset) a shot. it's pretty light on resources. was the first "gaming av" because of how light it was. and still actually has a gaming mode buried in the settings.

Also computer security is about having layers of security. You don't keep yourself secure by being smart, nor do you do it by having AV, or a firewall, and so on. You do it by doing ALL those things. Have a network firewall and host based firewalls. Run good AV and HIPS. Keep your OS and other software patched and current. Use things like UAC, ASLR, and DEP. Don't go to shady places on the net and don't run unknown software. Do all those things, not just some or one. That way when one fails you, and it will at some point, you aren't necessarily fucked because there's other layers of protection.

 

[ep0x73]

Been using Avast free for 10+ years on 5+ computers and not a single virus
software updater is slick, scan tool is good
I also run MWB along side which blocks bad coded websites/searches

 

[Inacurate]

I didn't see Avast mentioned once until the poster above me, surprised no one else mentioned it unless I skipped over it.

Also an Avast user, though I have have Defender installed I never check it.
I honestly don't feel the need to use either, but it costs very little performance to take a few additional steps for security, so it's an easy justification.

My PC is used 99% for gaming/content creating, but I will launch Chrome only for sites I trust such as Amazon, Twitch, Mixer, Gmail and am almost never visiting sites I haven't already been using for years in the browser.

For ALL other sites, including the 'bow chicka wow wow' variety, I run NoScript add-on with Firefox.
Surprised I didn't see more fanfare for this add-on either!
Prevents a site from running JavaScript, Flash or Java unless explicitly allowed, plus some other goodies.

I cannot recall ever having a security issues with the Avast & NoScript combo, but as others have said...it's just as much about the best practices too.

 

[nilepez]

I didn't see Avast mentioned once until the poster above me, surprised no one else mentioned it unless I skipped over it.

Also an Avast user, though I have have Defender installed I never check it.
I honestly don't feel the need to use either, but it costs very little performance to take a few additional steps for security, so it's an easy justification.

My PC is used 99% for gaming/content creating, but I will launch Chrome only for sites I trust such as Amazon, Twitch, Mixer, Gmail and am almost never visiting sites I haven't already been using for years in the browser.

For ALL other sites, including the 'bow chicka wow wow' variety, I run NoScript add-on with Firefox.
Surprised I didn't see more fanfare for this add-on either!
Prevents a site from running JavaScript, Flash or Java unless explicitly allowed, plus some other goodies.

I cannot recall ever having a security issues with the Avast & NoScript combo, but as others have said...it's just as much about the best practices too.

I definitely use noscript. Sometimes it's a pain, because some sites require so many layers of javascript, but for the sites I go to most commonly, I allow what's needed to get them working. OTOH, I run AV 24x7. Norton uses so few resources, it's just not worth worrying about. They really got a bad name in the mid aughts, but since 2009 (give or take a year), it's been efficient, but if gaming, i guess you can turn off smart protect for up to 5 hours or alternatively set it to do so until you restart.

For me, as long as it doesn't start scanning the HD, I'm good. It typically uses roughly 0% of CPU and maxes out at 1 or 2% on rare occasions (again assuming it's not running a scan.