Stop Paying For Anti-Virus

next-Jin

Supreme [H]ardness
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It was never ending...just too different for her. Couldn't get her online puzzle web site game to work (I'm guessing a flash plugin problem)... didn't like the free office alternative (i forget which one, libre maybe), wifi kept disconnecting and couldn't figure out anything because it was different. etc etc. But she's old and resistant to change... oh she cried her eyes out when her win 7 upgraded itself to 10. But at least she can (mostly) use 10. Couldn't get her printer working, scanner, etc. Also I can remote support that with teamviewer etc but not so much on linux. Her much beloved Hoyle card/board games didn't work...etc.

If someone in the linux world could come up with something that looked just like win 7 with same menus etc that would be great, but then MS would sue them into oblivion. (and yes I am aware of a build that looks sorta like Win 7 but I forget the name)

The short answer is, don't set elderly parents in front of a linux desktop and expect miracles to happen. If you're reading this forum, we could probably find a workaround to most problems/issues/compatibilty. Trying to walk my 70 yr old mother through anything in linux on the phone made me want to kill myself.

I've tried to get them all to buy macs (which I won't support, LOL) but they cost too much, even old used ones

edit - this is all off topic anyway, I'm sure there's a forum for why the elderly can't use linux
Eh it’s not all that off topic, my parents had the same deal, I gave them a Linux NUC and for just email/web it worked fine. I was just curious.
 

nilepez

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When they've solved the false positives, I'll give it a go, but I remember using Kaspersky about 12 years ago and it was the most miserable experience I ever had. I uninstalled it after a few months.

I'll add, the idea that you have to pay 60 bucks for AV softare (even for Symantec AV) is ridiculous. Most of the time, I've gotten it for free from Fry's (AR), but even now, you can get a 10 seat license, at least a few times/year, on Amazon for under well under 30 (maybe under 20...didn't buy it the last time Camel sent a notification, because I've got 2 or 3 unused Symantec licenses that I got for from Fry's a year or 2 ago. If you're buying a 1 or 5 seat license, I'm it's even cheaper when on sale. Also, if you're stuck with Comcast, then Symantec AV is free for up to 5 seats (I think...I'll probably use that this year, since it's free)

But again, if MS solves the false positives (the june report looked encouraging), I'd give it a call.
 

SmokeRngs

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2008
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I think quite a few people are overlooking something. Anti-virus program results are far from static. Within even a three month or so time frame the rankings can change quite a bit. Most anti-virus programs tend to have somewhat extreme ups and downs and the "best" anti-virus this month may be at best mediocre a few months down the road in comparison to the competition.

I specifically remember when MS came out with Microsoft Security Essentials that it was rather good and at some point was considered the best or up there with the best of the anti-virus programs. It also wasn't that much later that it was the worst or close to it. Windows Defender has also had some major ups and downs since it replaced MSE.

I think it was just a few months ago when I was looking at anti-virus rankings that Windows Defender was at best in the middle of the pack. Two of the big problems with it at the time were false positives (which I think has always been an issues with MS AV products) and the performance hit from its real time scanner which was the worst out of the 15 or so products reviewed at the time.
 

MaZa

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I use Comodo Internet Security free version simply because of its highly customisable firewall. And so is the antivirus. I want to be in full control of what gets into the internet and what does not, as well as what gets removed, quarantined and what is simply let be. Defender and stock firewall are too simple set-it-and-forget-it solutions for me.
 

Ranger101

Weaksauce
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We all know the best av is your finger. If you don't click the link, read the email or open the attachment you're probably safe. But for those times when your finger does something it's not supposed to do there are Anti-Virus programs, both free and paid, that are supposed to stop bad things from happening. This article says the default av that ships with windows is more than sufficient.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3434097/why-you-can-stop-paying-for-antivirus-software.html
Last time I paid for AV was Norton years ago, been using Avira free since then without any issues. I read that Windows defender was good enough somewhere recently so this serves as confirmation. Thanks for the link.
 
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zamardii12

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that's odd I have 13 laptops/tablets from Dell consumer and business side and not one of them came with any av software installed. latest\ purchase was a inspiron 7577which offered a 12month mcafee sub but was not installed
I know. Our company along with myself personally order a lot of Dells, but the Dell laptop in my sig which I only got very recently came with a bunch of bullshit. I only turned it on once to look and then put in a different NVME anyway, but it was interesting to see.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

Death Incarnate
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I know. Our company along with myself personally order a lot of Dells, but the Dell laptop in my sig which I only got very recently came with a bunch of bullshit. I only turned it on once to look and then put in a different NVME anyway, but it was interesting to see.
the only thing installed on the Dells I get from the business side is dell support assist (a tool I actually like) and the 2 machines from the home side... cane bare bones windows 7 and 10 respectively. but then again I do go through and select none for all software options during the config stage.
 

d3athf1sh

Gawd
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Dec 16, 2015
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i have been using ESET NOD32 for years and think it's wonderful. ever since i put it on my moms computer they haven't had a virus problem since and it's probably been 3 years now. (knock on wood) they use to have a prob at least once a year before that.

plus you can get keys for the whole suite off of https://www.bonanza.com for like $5 and you would be surprised it how much junk it catches. i still run malwarebytes from time to time to make sure nothing has slipped through and all they're all clean as a whistle.

bonanza also has windows keys for dirt cheap and you can get enterprise version if you don't like the way win10 handles updates and telemetry and want a more fine grain control over that kind of stuff. :sneaky:
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
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We all know the best av is your finger. If you don't click the link, read the email or open the attachment you're probably safe. But for those times when your finger does something it's not supposed to do there are Anti-Virus programs, both free and paid, that are supposed to stop bad things from happening. This article says the default av that ships with windows is more than sufficient.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3434097/why-you-can-stop-paying-for-antivirus-software.html
buy 14 antivirus packages...

click every link in your email....


You will be inundated with viruses. They really don't work as advertised.
 
Joined
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keep your software up to date, don't let ads load (except trusted websites like the H of course), dont let java or flash touch your computer, build a router using sophos for cheap, and dont go clicking links.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
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I used to pay for Kaspersky but now I only use Windows Defender/Security...plus I do a clean install twice a year when Microsoft releases their 2 major updates
 

Zepher

[H]ipster Replacement
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We all know the best av is your finger. If you don't click the link, read the email or open the attachment you're probably safe. But for those times when your finger does something it's not supposed to do there are Anti-Virus programs, both free and paid, that are supposed to stop bad things from happening. This article says the default av that ships with windows is more than sufficient.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3434097/why-you-can-stop-paying-for-antivirus-software.html
I beg to differ. My dad likes to "try" various pc games and ends up with trojans that Windows built in AV can't get rid of. It detects it, deletes it but it doesn't get the main trojan because it just keeps coming back.
It's happened quite a few times now, and sometimes he'll have to do a complete reinstall, or I'll hook his drive up to my PC and use ESET to clean the drive.
 

DoubleTap

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I've been using the MVPS Hosts file list for about 15 years. It straight up shunts tons of ad networks and known shady sites right to 127.0.0.1

It has some downsides - it blocks google ads and most websites think I'm using an ad blocker and I need to white list them (I don't)

It's not perfect, but it massively reduces your personal attack surface and if there is something you need to enable, you can just go in and edit the HOSTS file.

That, plus being smart plus Windows Defender has worked very well for me.

http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm (ignore the circa 2000 web design)
 
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Jim Kim

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I beg to differ. My dad likes to "try" various pc games and ends up with trojans that Windows built in AV can't get rid of. It detects it, deletes it but it doesn't get the main trojan because it just keeps coming back.
It's happened quite a few times now, and sometimes he'll have to do a complete reinstall, or I'll hook his drive up to my PC and use ESET to clean the drive.
He desperately needs Malwarebytes.org and enlightenment.
I have actually raised my voice at customers telling them that they are not allowed to Install Anything on their own systems. it works
 

KarsusTG

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While it is true that windows built in AV can do the job if you don't click that email or install that toolbar, we all know that most people are not that disciplined and/or have the basic understanding that it is a problem. I have had at least a dozen c-level people in large corporations over the last few years ask me for help only to have a half dozen or so tool bars and malware/spyware on their systems. Heck, more than one still had aol...

This tool isn't for those that have technical proficiency, it's for the people that don't. Or more importantly, those that we don't want to have to visit every week to "fix" their computer because they keep clicking yes/ok to everything. We all know those people.. Most of us are related to a few of them..
 

defaultluser

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Remember when you had to install Windows Defender yourself on Windows 7?

It amazes me that people re only finding out now that it's perfectly capable, while I've been running machines for ten years without a single virus. IT's gotten even better in the last few years, and there really is no reason for a consumer to run a paid AV.

The only people who should pay for AV are Corporate, and that's because their AV packages come with a lot more features, and ways to update on more closed-down networks.
 

IdiotInCharge

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I uses FREE Kaspersky never ever once had any kind of Issue E V E R
You have the entirety of the resources available to the Kremlin keeping your system (a) safe (endpoint for their devious behavior).

AV is literally a backdoor rootkit by definition, and the other end of your AV is in Russia. Congrats!
 

IdiotInCharge

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This tool isn't for those that have technical proficiency, it's for the people that don't. Or more importantly, those that we don't want to have to visit every week to "fix" their computer because they keep clicking yes/ok to everything. We all know those people.. Most of us are related to a few of them..
It's for everyone.

Defense in Depth is a very basic security concept, where layered security measures minimize your various systems attack surfaces.

The only people who should pay for AV are Corporate, and that's because their AV packages come with a lot more features, and ways to update on more closed-down networks.
Here, they usually apply Defense in Depth by making sure that all of the various potential security measures are working together in concert with one-another. ePO with HBSS installed on 'clients' is an example here, and generally you'd want that working with IPS/IDS and internal and external network infrastructure management tools as well.

For your every-day consumer, I believe that Sophos has a potential solution, but I'm not aware of a product let alone a standard that would apply to home / home office networks outside of an entirely custom configuration.
 

Skull_Angel

[H]ard|Gawd
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Eh, these days AV is more of a "final wall" kind of thing that mostly just notifies you when you've fucked up; if you're not practicing safe browsing, using a secured browser (script disablers), configured firewall, scanning what you download before executing it, and keeping software updated, you can't really blame AV software (though you might be able to blame the marketing).

Is payed AV better than free? I honestly haven't noticed any difference and tend to use a trusted AV that's light on resource usage, but this is considering it's on my personal machine and is just a "piece of mind" thing (no positives for the past 6 years ::knock on silicone:: ).
 

KarsusTG

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It's for everyone.

Defense in Depth is a very basic security concept, where layered security measures minimize your various systems attack surfaces.



Here, they usually apply Defense in Depth by making sure that all of the various potential security measures are working together in concert with one-another. ePO with HBSS installed on 'clients' is an example here, and generally you'd want that working with IPS/IDS and internal and external network infrastructure management tools as well.

For your every-day consumer, I believe that Sophos has a potential solution, but I'm not aware of a product let alone a standard that would apply to home / home office networks outside of an entirely custom configuration.
This is completely ridiculous. I don't believe anyone needs HBSS on their computer to safely play facebook games or check yahoo mail. Enterprise level networks are an entirely different matter, but that isn't what this is about. This is home use systems by regular users. Even a hardware firewall is overkill for 99% of home users. Heck, most of the cots routers (if you can call them that) in most homes are overkill for those homes.
 

IdiotInCharge

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I don't believe anyone needs HBSS on their computer to safely play facebook games or check yahoo mail.
So you'd turn even Defender off?

Enterprise level networks are an entirely different matter, but that isn't what this is about.
If it's connected to the internet, it's the same.

Even a hardware firewall is overkill for 99% of home users.
...no. That'd be a hard minimum.

Heck, most of the cots routers (if you can call them that) in most homes are overkill for those homes.
Well, you can't call them 'COTS' because they're not commercial in the slightest- and they're also underkill because they're generally left unupdated for years and full of security holes. Ideally you'd want something that's more secure by default that also receives security updates, which is extremely rare for devices marketed for home use.
 

Zepher

[H]ipster Replacement
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I've been using ESET NOD32 for the past 10 years. Wanna see when I last installed Windows on this machine,

windows-installed-programs-chrome-window-hard-forum.jpg
 

KarsusTG

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So you'd turn even Defender off?



If it's connected to the internet, it's the same.



...no. That'd be a hard minimum.



Well, you can't call them 'COTS' because they're not commercial in the slightest- and they're also underkill because they're generally left unupdated for years and full of security holes. Ideally you'd want something that's more secure by default that also receives security updates, which is extremely rare for devices marketed for home use.
I understand what you are saying, it is just not really in any way realistic for a typical home user. Putting aside the fact that a very minuscule % of users have the technical expertise to implement and maintain such a system. The sheer cost of putting it in is overwhelmingly prohibitive for home users. How expensive is a hardware stateful firewall with a decent throughput? Like $1k on the low end assuming you could install and set it up yourself? How expensive is endpoint protection? Somewhere around $150/year per device? Your typical house has 15-20 devices ballpark? That is on the low end $3k initial with an ongoing of $2k/year easy. If you are a high profile figure or work in cyber security or some other job that makes you a target sure, but for the soccer moms surfing facebook it's just ridiculous.
 

Jim Kim

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I uses FREE Kaspersky never ever once had any kind of Issue E V E R
I also use the free version of Kaspersky Anti Virus along with the paid version of Malwarebytes Pro.
I did have to put each other in their respective "exclusion" areas, but after that they played nice.

What's not to like, Eugene hired the dude that found nsa's stuxnet virus in the wild. He can't be all bad.:LOL:
https://eugene.kaspersky.com/2011/11/02/the-man-who-found-stuxnet-sergey-ulasen-in-the-spotlight/
 
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Niner21

Limp Gawd
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I have been using Norton for quite a while. I don't pay an arm and a leg for it so that doesn't bother me. It isn't intrusive and I haven't had any issues. I will admit they do try to scare you into thinking you need all the extras including Lifelock now. It's easy enough to ignore though.
 
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It was never ending...just too different for her. Couldn't get her online puzzle web site game to work (I'm guessing a flash plugin problem)... didn't like the free office alternative (i forget which one, libre maybe), wifi kept disconnecting and couldn't figure out anything because it was different. etc etc. But she's old and resistant to change... oh she cried her eyes out when her win 7 upgraded itself to 10. But at least she can (mostly) use 10. Couldn't get her printer working, scanner, etc. Also I can remote support that with teamviewer etc but not so much on linux. Her much beloved Hoyle card/board games didn't work...etc.

If someone in the linux world could come up with something that looked just like win 7 with same menus etc that would be great, but then MS would sue them into oblivion. (and yes I am aware of a build that looks sorta like Win 7 but I forget the name)

The short answer is, don't set elderly parents in front of a linux desktop and expect miracles to happen. If you're reading this forum, we could probably find a workaround to most problems/issues/compatibilty. Trying to walk my 70 yr old mother through anything in linux on the phone made me want to kill myself.

I've tried to get them all to buy macs (which I won't support, LOL) but they cost too much, even old used ones

edit - this is all off topic anyway, I'm sure there's a forum for why the elderly can't use linux
Probably Lindows. I've not played with it, but I used Linux Mint through a few versions, and it was horrible on the network. Could not see anything on the Windows machines. So, no more Linux for me.
 

IdiotInCharge

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I understand what you are saying, it is just not really in any way realistic for a typical home user. Putting aside the fact that a very minuscule % of users have the technical expertise to implement and maintain such a system. The sheer cost of putting it in is overwhelmingly prohibitive for home users. How expensive is a hardware stateful firewall with a decent throughput? Like $1k on the low end assuming you could install and set it up yourself? How expensive is endpoint protection? Somewhere around $150/year per device? Your typical house has 15-20 devices ballpark? That is on the low end $3k initial with an ongoing of $2k/year easy. If you are a high profile figure or work in cyber security or some other job that makes you a target sure, but for the soccer moms surfing facebook it's just ridiculous.
I see it as a pretty large opportunity that companies are bypassing.
 

4saken

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MS built-in has been good enough for fricking years, who the hell still pays for extra AV(spyware)
 
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