Steve Jobs: 'We're Having a Little Problem Here'

phide said:
The EVO has an inferior display (~217 ppi versus the 326 ppi of iPhone 4) and fairly poor battery life, however, especially with 4G enabled. Apple claims the battery in the new model could last 40% longer than the battery in the 3GS. The EVO's heavier as well: 170 grams versus the iPhone's 137 grams (a hair heavier than the 3GS).

It isn't so cut and dry.
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Most people would consider the HTC EVO superior in spite of such things considering everything else.

No phone is ever best for everyone, that's simply impossible to do even in spite of Apple's consistent marketing gimmicks that would have you believe otherwise.

Personally, I find the HTC HD2 to be "superior" to both the iPhone 4 and the HTC EVO myself - it's got what I want in a device in spite of the other two being "superior" in their own respects for those that choose to look at them as such.

PPI is far from "the ultimate judge" in terms of display quality. In my experience, every time someone complains or whines about a 4.3" or larger display does so based on no hands on experience - but get that person a device with such a screen size and let them actually use it for a period of time then you'll get something like this:

"I thought it would be too big, originally, but after having used it, I can't really see myself using anything smaller ever again."

Increasing the resolution of the iPhone is fine but it's not the end-all-be-all. I love the additional market gimmick of "Retina Display has a resolution that is so high the human eye can't even see the pixels" which is such utter absolute bullshit it's not even funny.

I can see the pixels.
 
phide said:
The EVO has an inferior display (~217 ppi versus the 326 ppi of iPhone 4) and fairly poor battery life, however, especially with 4G enabled.
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How long does the battery of the iPhone 4 last with 4G enabled?

If ppi is everything then all 1920x1200 24 inch monitors are exactly the same quality right? Of course ppi will only be important once the iPhone 4 is out and is not important for the almost 8 months since the Droid has had a huge advantage in PPI. Then the talking point is that having more than one resolution will splinter the app market and Apple is better since they only have 1.
 
Bahamut said:
Increasing the resolution of the iPhone is fine but it's not the end-all-be-all. I love the additional market gimmick of "Retina Display has a resolution that is so high the human eye can't even see the pixels" which is such utter absolute bullshit it's not even funny.

I can see the pixels.
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You mean my old 480P projector isn't just as good as my 720P one and both arn't as good as a 1080P one because from most seating positions I couldn't see each individual pixel? You mean that 1080i isn't always better than or as good as 720P and 1080P because I can't always see the individual scan lines?

If some people are bothered because certain displays(mostly oleds) have difference in the different colors (Red, Green, Blue layer in most cases) that is much smaller than a pixel difference then not being able to see the pixels is not the ultimate end of display quality.
 
Bahamut said:
Most people would consider the HTC EVO superior in spite of such things considering everything else.
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That's great. But even a consensus is not hard-and-fast. A given thing isn't better than another given thing because a lot of people happen to believe it is.

Bahamut said:
PPI is far from "the ultimate judge" in terms of display quality.
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All other things being equal, a display with a higher pixel density than a comparable display is going to exhibit greater quality UNLESS there are some apparent design flaws which would prohibit that (like poor backlight uniformity or severe color shifts). The type of TFT panel utilized in the EVO is unknown, but even if it is an IPS display like the iPhone 4's, it doesn't beat the iPhone's pixel density. It is larger, yes, but the size of a display and its quality with respect to all quality metrics are unrelated.

Now, an OLED display is going to have some advantages over a backlit TFT, notably better blacks, but the EVO doesn't have an OLED/AMOLED display.
 
Funny video. So the iPhone was basically the worst device in the room for wi-fi.

I can't wait to see the Apple fanboys asking everyone in a wi-fi hotspot to turn off their devices so the iPhone will work.
 
Sorry to go a little off-topic, but did anyone see the apple parody video on the G4 channel last night?
Was a parody of the opening scenes of the original superman movie with someone looking like steve jobs as Kal-el, and 3 guys (Think they were supposed to represent the guy who took the iphone, the one who sold it and a guy from gizmodo) as the 3 prisoners that you saw in the spinning rings in the original movie.
Had the stockholders as the holograms and the dome was made to look like a giant apple.
Needless to say at the end the 3 were banished inside an I-Pad (Spinning like the mirror in the first)
I thought it was hilarious, but can't find it on the net atm tho to post.. :(
 
phide said:
All other things being equal, a display with a higher pixel density than a comparable display is going to exhibit greater quality
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Thanks for informing me of the obvious. All other things are never equal. All other things being equal the phone with the better volume control is better. You can apply it to any metric, by definition if all other things were equal the one part that wasn't equal would be the deciding factor. Just to be extra argumentative if the display was 1000 x 1000 pixels it could have higher ppi but would be a square display and not as useful to most people. Its pretty clear that Apple picked the resolution because they needed to start trying to catch up with Android devices and wanted it to be easier to scale old applications and other claims are pretty much just marketing. As I said PPI wasn't an important factor until Apple got a lead in that one stat and it will stop being an important factor when and Android device surpasses it. Then Steve will let you know which talking point is important. Of course we will also hear if higher pixel density is important when it comes to cameras too depending on if Apple has the lead in that one stat.



Many displays use not only the exact same technology and resolution but use the exact same panels (Sony and Samsung TV's for example) but many people prefer one over the other.
 
The problem is that there is only so much wireless spectrum space available for 802.11x usage.

Steve did say that there was a lot of users using MiFi devices which are basically little cell phone air-cards that have the ability to share with five users via WiFi. So in this case, because they had so many users using MiFi cards the wireless spectrum was so noisy that it was a wonder anything that was 802.11x was able to work in that hall.
 
I'm not big on conspiracy theories but Jobs has a history of saying something is bad right before he releases his version of it. I would totally but that he did this so that he can then say the iPhone is the best since it has N wireless or Apple has there own new proprietary wireless.

BladeVenom said:
Funny video. So the iPhone was basically the worst device in the room for wi-fi.

I can't wait to see the Apple fanboys asking everyone in a wi-fi hotspot to turn off their devices so the iPhone will work.
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Well it will give them an excuse to show off there new Apple product so I'm sure they would call that a feature also. It would be more like "could everyone in a wi-fi hotspot to turn off their devices so MY NEW IPHONE will work. I WANT TO USE ITS NEW VIDEO CONFERENCING FEATURE"
 
trparky said:
The problem is that there is only so much wireless spectrum space available for 802.11x usage.

Steve did say that there was a lot of users using MiFi devices which are basically little cell phone air-cards that have the ability to share with five users via WiFi. So in this case, because they had so many users using MiFi cards the wireless spectrum was so noisy that it was a wonder anything that was 802.11x was able to work in that hall.
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Hey welcome to the thread, the rest of use have been here awhile or have at least read the rest of it. You can't just say 802.11x either, since N and A can use a different range. Once again the popularity of MiFi like cards at a Apple convention is also not a good sign for Apple. Of course now they can claim that the Apple version of tethering that took them so long to come out with doesn't use WiFi is a big advantage even though Bluetooth is also in the 2.4ghz range and Android just gives you more options.
 
Steve said:
Those of you that didn’t catch the iPhone 4 reveal yesterday missed out on seeing Steve Jobs bumbling around on stage trying to get the iPhone to connect to the internet. Jobs even got heckled before finally asking reporters to turn off any Wi-Fi they had so he could demo the iPhone. Here is a video.
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oh look, its steve flaming apple again. :rolleyes:

dude reading your apple posts is like watching glen beck "post news" about liberals and progressives. i just cant take anything you say seriously anymore. the bias is just too ridiculous.

question for kyle.

why are you still paying this clown? isnt there like i don't know. several thousand posters from hardocp that could do his job better, without bias, and for probably less money?

im sorry but at this point, i think steve needs to be promoted back to ceo of ****************************


Click for full size - Uploaded with plasq's Skitch
 
Yes, I realize that rally9x but the majority of 802.11x stuff still only works in the 2.4 GHz range; especially the 802.11b and g devices. It's only 802.11n that has the option to work in the 5 GHz range and there are no MiFi cards that I know of that work in the 5 GHz range.

Not only that but there are only a few 802.11n dual-band access points on the market, the majority only use 2.4 GHz.
 
christianw said:
oh look, its steve flaming apple again. :rolleyes:

dude reading your apple posts is like watching glen beck "post news" about liberals and progressives. i just cant take anything you say seriously anymore. the bias is just too ridiculous.

question for kyle.

why are you still paying this clown? isnt there like i don't know. several thousand posters from hardocp that could do his job better, without bias, and for probably less money?

im sorry but at this point, i think steve needs to be promoted back to ceo of ****************************
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Last I checked [H] wasn't claiming to be fair and balanced...
Point is everyone here (mostly) doesn't like Jobs, this stuff generates more interest than does a story on the latest metals going into solder or something...
 
rally9x said:
You can apply it to any metric, by definition if all other things were equal the one part that wasn't equal would be the deciding factor.
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Now who's being obvious?

rally9x said:
Just to be extra argumentative if the display was 1000 x 1000 pixels it could have higher ppi but would be a square display and not as useful to most people.
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We aren't talking about how useful the display is but its quality. There are metrics that exist to define the quality of an LCD display, of which "usefulness" is not one of them. If you want to argue "usefulness", I suggest you talk to someone else.

rally9x said:
As I said PPI wasn't an important factor until Apple got a lead in that one stat and it will stop being an important factor when and Android device surpasses it.
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It's always been important for me because my phone is my PMP. When I started shopping around for other phones, of prime concern to me was the display and, primarily, how many pixels it packs in an inch. At that time, the DROID and the Nexus One were the phones to beat in that respect, and now the iPhone will be the phone to beat. In a few months, HTC's going to have a comparable display in one of their phones — I don't doubt that for a second. But, for now, the iPhone appears to be the phone to beat with respect to the quality of the display.

rally9x said:
Many displays use not only the exact same technology and resolution but use the exact same panels (Sony and Samsung TV's for example) but many people prefer one over the other.
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That usually comes down to construction quality and feature set of the monitor itself (number and type of inputs, OSD and so on). Assuming the "Retina Display" doesn't have any major issues related to its manufacturing or assembly process, I don't think there's any doubt that it's going to be the phone display to beat. These things don't have inputs or OSDs or remotes or any of that: they're just screens. Either it's of higher quality or it isn't.
 
Considering the technicalities of the WiFi network, you would think SOMEONE would have thought this could be a potential problem and done some damn thing to prevent the embarrassment. How about a .50 cent sign that says "No Laptops allowed in demo room." Bloggers can write about it later.
 
I know Jobs slammed OLED yesterday but, honestly, the OLED in the Zune HD is better - to me which is what matters in the long run, to me and my eyes - than anything on any portable device I have ever had the pleasure or displeasure to view, and that's a shitload of displays over the past 3 decades from monochrome green screens all the way up to that monstrous IBM T221 3840x2400 LCD (owned one for a short period of time but could never actually power it with enough video, ironically - the video cards at the time just couldn't cut it except the insanely expensive ones).

The interface of Windows Phone 7 (and the Zune HD) may technically be "inferior" because of lower pixel density and actual pixel resolution, but it sure as hell looks better to me than any IPS-display I've yet encountered.

And while I can see the pixels on said devices, I don't notice them on the Zune HD's OLED display anywhere nearly as easily as I do on the current iPhone/iPod touch/iPad screens, so we'll see what happens with the iPhone 4 but, again, it's simply not a buying point for me (which is pretty clear by now).
 
Im pretty amazed at this. He blames other people with there wifi for killing his internet. And than when its to slow "someone hasnt shut off there wifi", wtf...... Dont get me wrong, I dont hate Apple products, I like the ipod..... but this isnt about Apple, its about Steve Jobs....

Karma Steve, Karma

Hurts when your "standards" dont work dont they?
 
I'm happy here (after THREE YEARS?) they're finally implementing spell check.
That's as stupid as shipping a product without cut/copy/paste- oh wait, they did that one, too.
 
Apple or the Moscone people are idiots. I've seen a much more hostile network with just as many users or more at Defcon. You can design your network with multiple access points, with directional antennas, different polarity, different power etc. Maybe throw a little tin-foil in your shoes and cross your legs to give your device a cleaner shot at the antenna that should have been behind the stage etc.

Or don't lock your device down so that you can only run program A on wifi and program B on 3g.
 
You know what's funny, I recall the Win98 BSOD and Bill Gates seemed to see the humor in it despite being quite embarrassed I'm sure. Steve just looked like he was seething. :p
 
He was, and you can be quite damned sure - because this issue is still being discussed well past 24 hours later not just here but on sites all over the place - that some heads got rolled and some asses got chewed yesterday after the event.

Wasn't any reality distortion going on at that point, that was full on Jobsian stark fuckin' ravin' terror at work. ;)

Cult leaders do have that nasty ability to make everybody under 'em tremble like not much else can...
 
Bahamut said:
I know Jobs slammed OLED yesterday but, honestly, the OLED in the Zune HD is better - to me which is what matters in the long run, to me and my eyes - than anything on any portable device I have ever had the pleasure or displeasure to view, and that's a shitload of displays over the past 3 decades from monochrome green screens all the way up to that monstrous IBM T221 3840x2400 LCD (owned one for a short period of time but could never actually power it with enough video, ironically - the video cards at the time just couldn't cut it except the insanely expensive ones).

The interface of Windows Phone 7 (and the Zune HD) may technically be "inferior" because of lower pixel density and actual pixel resolution, but it sure as hell looks better to me than any IPS-display I've yet encountered.

And while I can see the pixels on said devices, I don't notice them on the Zune HD's OLED display anywhere nearly as easily as I do on the current iPhone/iPod touch/iPad screens, so we'll see what happens with the iPhone 4 but, again, it's simply not a buying point for me (which is pretty clear by now).
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I love the OLED screen on my N85 indoors. When I walk outside into the sunlight it gets completely washed out. Isn't that the one thing that LCDs still do better than OLEDs? Bright ambient lighting?
 
Didn't have issues with my Zune HD outside in direct sunlight (and I live in the desert) so... some people have nothing but issues, I'm just not one of 'em.
 
Decibel said:
I love the OLED screen on my N85 indoors. When I walk outside into the sunlight it gets completely washed out. Isn't that the one thing that LCDs still do better than OLEDs? Bright ambient lighting?
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Yes. OLED displays are, by their nature, non-reflective. TFTs are somewhat reflective, so they offer better performance in high-ambient light conditions. Super AMOLED displays address that to some extent.

The Nexus One, Incredible and other AMOLED phones suffer terribly outdoors. This is what you get with the Incredible in direct sunlight, and it isn't pretty.
 
OldPueblo said:
You know what's funny, I recall the Win98 BSOD and Bill Gates seemed to see the humor in it despite being quite embarrassed I'm sure. Steve just looked like he was seething. :p
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Agreed, I was thinking of this episode as well. Jobs´ sense of humor must have been removed along with that failing organ. He looks so much healthier now though.

I loved this clip, thanks for the link!
 
It just sucks.
:(

And Jobs constantly nagging people with turning off Wifi, didn't help much either.
 
Decibel said:
I love the OLED screen on my N85 indoors. When I walk outside into the sunlight it gets completely washed out. Isn't that the one thing that LCDs still do better than OLEDs? Bright ambient lighting?
Click to expand...

Some displays are worse than others but all displays look like crap in the sunlight.
 
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