Steam Play Evolves as Valve Adds Tools for Windows to Linux Compatibility

[ChadD]

Well for the one millionth time. Wine / Proton is NOT an emulator it is NOT a wrapper.

The DX -> Vulkan stuff is also not really a wrapper in the way people are used to talking about. I mean it is but it also has a massive advantage. DX 11 and 12 to Vulkan doesn't require the wrapper to change the way things work. Its mostly just changing headers ect. The performance hit is there but its not the type of performance killer DX to OpenGL would be. (technically speaking if your machine has lots of CPU horsepower there should be ZERO performance hit) Vulkan supports much the same methods of doing things in terms of shaders, shader caches even. With OpenGL wrappers the issue was getting OpenGL to do things it wasn't designed to do. DXVK and VKD3D are translation layers, not wrappers.

Wine is not emulating anything. It is simply inturperting windows API calls in the EXACT same way windows itself would. Windows software doesn't talk directly to the hardware or something... it has a translation layer that translates the API calls to machine code. Wine translates the "windows" API code in the same way... hooking into the OS systems like networking GPU sound ect. There is no need for Wine to be slower at all.

For anyone that wants proof... go and benchmark actual Vulkan games. A windows game that uses Vulkan runs within a hair (or faster in some cases ) under Linux and wine (and I would assume proton would be at least as good as wine). Wine isn't introducing performance loss when it comes to running windows software. Performance loss has almost always come from wrapping DX to OpenGL. Translating to Vulkan is better.... simply running windows vulkan code is even better to the point where Linux superior sub systems can in some cases actually show better performance vs windows.

This is a YEAR old... Vulkan API + Wine. Its clear Wine isn't the issue with performance. OpenGL wrapping is sure. (in this example it seems just converting from windows opengl implementation to Linux is an issue) The more games that switch to Vulkan the better. If a AAA studio wants to just put out windows software, and just uses Vulkan. Steams proton solution is going to offer = performance on steamos and linux.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Missing the point. “Portal 2 runs faster on Linux!” No PC gaming review site uses something as old as Portal 2, something that runs well on something as anemic as a Surface Go, for benchmarking purposes. When you put those kinds of games on higher end hardware they get crushed anyway, well beyond the ability of any monitor to deal with the insane framerates.

Not all gamers are solely interested in what's being benchmarked in review sites.

I’m not doubting the ability of Linux to perform as well or better in games compared to Windows. That’s not going to happen with wrappers around native Windows games though.

If Vulkan adoption grows it won't matter.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well for the one millionth time. Wine / Proton is NOT an emulator it is NOT a wrapper.

It's the same concept as the Windows Linux Subsystem, translates in real time calls from the app to native OS calls. The closer the calls map one to one or even where the host OS is more efficient than the native app host, the better. Thus I get it Vulkan over DX 12 as the calls map directly.

This is a YEAR old... Vulkan API + Wine. Its clear Wine isn't the issue with performance. OpenGL wrapping is sure. (in this example it seems just converting from windows opengl implementation to Linux is an issue) The more games that switch to Vulkan the better. If a AAA studio wants to just put out windows software, and just uses Vulkan. Steams proton solution is going to offer = performance on steamos and linux.

Doom is pretty optimized though. And this demo is shit at that resolution. Curious, I've looked around time to time for Doom Linux under 4k and have never found anything, have you?

 

[heatlesssun]

Not all gamers are solely interested in what's being benchmarked in review sites.

You don't need something like Proton and targeting to Vulkan otherwise.

If Vulkan adoption grows it won't matter.

Probably not overall. I was curious when I saw Doom VFR on that initial Proton compatibility list. Vulkan is pretty much required for Linux VR games but so little is said about Linux VR these days. I have no idea about how well it performs. Don't underestimate sites like this or social media. They can be very good guides.

 

[Mazzspeed]

You don't need something like Proton and targeting to Vulkan otherwise.

I don't believe that's the case at all. Most gamers are casual gamers, I see no evidence that their gaming needs necessarily center around what's currently being benchmarked in reviews. As stated, the idea is that support for an open API such as Vulkan grows and if that eventuates there will be a performance parity between Windows and Linux.

As it is I'm finding the performance between Windows and Linux considering Steam Play really isn't as much as most may imagine, Proton is actually very impressive and if it wasn't for overzealous DRM systems I honestly believe ~60%+ of the Windows library would run fine under Steam Play out the box on Linux.

What we don't need anymore is an API lock in like Direct X, Windows supports Vulkan just fine as do many other platforms so it's time DX took a bow.

 

[ole-m]

If anyone wants to know more about gaming on Linux, do let me know. I'll help you out

I'm working on a YouTube series demonstrating it in realistic ways.

Awesome,

You're using AMD gpu or nvidia ?
I found that AMD works a lot better, I've had so much issues with nVidia however once a native game in linux runs on nvidia it's usually flawless unlike amd but that's the only strong point i found.
Bought my Vega just cause I was sick and tired of adding a script, and another and another to fix issues in DE with nvidia.

However, Starcraft 2 is still a game i'm struggling with, and since I play that a lot I still do tons of dualboot :'(
Got any tips for the blizzard games ?

 

[SmokeRngs]

Missing the point. “Portal 2 runs faster on Linux!” No PC gaming review site uses something as old as Portal 2, something that runs well on something as anemic as a Surface Go, for benchmarking purposes. When you put those kinds of games on higher end hardware they get crushed anyway, well beyond the ability of any monitor to deal with the insane framerates.

Yes, most people are causal gamers. That’s why Linux fans have gone nuts over Proton. We’re well past this crap. Most PC gamers, sure casual. Proton isn’t about brining casual gaming to Linux, it’s about the latest and greatest. There were already plenty of more casual NATIVE Linux games on Linux. That simply wasn’t enough. Hell 3 of the games on the initial list are VR games. Which I find odd considering that Steam Linux VR is STILL in beta after 18 months. Or maybe not, I have no idea and even Linux gaming sites don't say jack shit about Linux VR these days. The release notes on Steams Linux VR GitHub still say that you can't update the Vive firmware under Linux. Wow.



I’m not doubting the ability of Linux to perform as well or better in games compared to Windows. That’s not going to happen with wrappers around native Windows games though.

Why are you so quick to dismiss "older" games? Shittons of people love to play those older games. And if older games aren't very popular, why are there so many of them on Steam or any of the other digital storefronts? Those games are there because people buy them and play them. A lot of people like to go back and play older games as well. It's not as if the only games played are less than a year old. Yet you go out of your way to dismiss these older games.

It's almost as bad as your insistence that 4k, VR and SLI are the most important things in the world despite the fact that it's only a tiny percentage of people who actually use those things. SLI seems to have been all but killed off already. Practically no one can afford or wants to fork out the massive amount of money to play at 4k or VR.

 

[ChadD]

Probably not overall. I was curious when I saw Doom VFR on that initial Proton compatibility list. Vulkan is pretty much required for Linux VR games but so little is said about Linux VR these days. I have no idea about how well it performs. Don't underestimate sites like this or social media. They can be very good guides.

Little is said cause no one cares. I don't want to go down the VR rabbit hole with you. Seriously VR and 4k are not major worries for the majority of gamers... or publishers or hardware mfgs.

As has just been revealed by the new RTX stuff... hardware mfgs and developers are going to target 1080p for years out. Crank the eye candy and run smooth at 1080p that is what most people care about really. Its also what we are going to get.

4k is looking more and more like a pipe dream. For the next 10 years GPU mfgs and game devs are going to be able to keep upping the realism to a point where 1080p is going to be the target. Now that it seems like Ray tracing is going to become a real thing... really who cares about VR. The day Ray tracing is possible in VR is years off.

Honestly the more I see of Nvidias Ray Tracing stuff... the more I'm actually excited by it. I hope AMD is capable of putting out a card that can do the same. Give me 1080p 60fps with ray tracing over VR or 4k any day of the week. Vulkan should be able to fully expose real time ray tracing... how that is handled by VKD3D will be interesting, I'm pretty sure it should be a direct map and mean Linux with proton should close to identical performance to win 10.

Yes its possible 3-4th gen RTX hardware will be able to push current games with traced lighting at 4k resolutions... but by then we will be seeing games that start using even more Ray tracing... and I bet the target for those games will be. Drum Rollllll.... 1080p. lol

 

[naib]

The constant naysaying

People are missing a key point here...

"No tux, no bucks" and I doubt this will change.
This helps with someone's back catalogue and also I am sure Linux users will buy some windows only games BUT don't underestimate the Linux users who will only play linix

 

[heatlesssun]

Little is said cause no one cares. I don't want to go down the VR rabbit hole with you.

Then why did Valve put three VR games on its initial list of 27 Proton compatible titles if no one cares? Apparently Valve does.

As has just been revealed by the new RTX stuff... hardware mfgs and developers are going to target 1080p for years out. Crank the eye candy and run smooth at 1080p that is what most people care about really. Its also what we are going to get.

4k is looking more and more like a pipe dream. For the next 10 years GPU mfgs and game devs are going to be able to keep upping the realism to a point where 1080p is going to be the target. Now that it seems like Ray tracing is going to become a real thing... really who cares about VR. The day Ray tracing is possible in VR is years off.

​

I've been doing almost all of 2d gaming at 4k with brand new titles for almost two years now. Sure it takes good hardware but pipe dream hardly. Ray Tracing that's brand new stuff in the PC gaming market but the new Geforce RTXs are going to crush non-RT 4k gaming.​

Give me 1080p 60fps with ray tracing over VR or 4k any day of the week.

RT and VR aren't mutually exclusive. RT can be used to enhance VR as well as conventional gaming. Real-time 3d reflections in VR only makes VR better.

Yes its possible 3-4th gen RTX hardware will be able to push current games with traced lighting at 4k resolutions... but by then we will be seeing games that start using even more Ray tracing... and I bet the target for those games will be. Drum Rollllll.... 1080p. lol

We're not talking either or here. 4k gaming has been here and is to stay, RT is just getting started. I pre-ordered 2 Founders Edition RTX 2080 Tis. I guarantee that I'll be blowing the framerates off plenty of games at 4k maxed out just not necessarily in all circumstances.

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't believe that's the case at all. Most gamers are casual gamers, I see no evidence that their gaming needs necessarily center around what's currently being benchmarked in reviews. As stated, the idea is that support for an open API such as Vulkan grows and if that eventuates there will be a performance parity between Windows and Linux.

Casual gaming doesn't drive PC gaming. Steam on Linux is FULL of native Linux casual 2D type games and that's just not enough. Proton is about things like PUBG, Overwatch, Fortnite, Far Cry, Fallout, etc. not Candy Crush. Sure most PC games are casual, I play a number myself. But no one buys GPUs or gaming laptops or desktops to play Candy Crush.

As it is I'm finding the performance between Windows and Linux considering Steam Play really isn't as much as most may imagine, Proton is actually very impressive and if it wasn't for overzealous DRM systems I honestly believe ~60%+ of the Windows library would run fine under Steam Play out the box on Linux.

Perhaps, that's a LOT of games though you're talking about across a lot of different scenarios, takes tons of testing to sort through it.

 

[heatlesssun]

Why are you so quick to dismiss "older" games?

I'm not dismissing older games at all, I have tons installed across my devices. I'm just pointing out that professional reviewers don't normally use older titles to bench new hardware because the numbers are often useless. My sig rig gets over 200 FPS at 4k max in Portal 2. That's meaningless.

But sometimes it interesting to see what so older games can do against new hardware, [H] ran a number of articles about it not long ago. "Can it play Crysis" still has some meaning. Driving that game at 4k even with something like my sig rig is nowhere near as easy as pushing a Source 2 game.

 

[Todd Walter]

Awesome,

You're using AMD gpu or nvidia ?
I found that AMD works a lot better, I've had so much issues with nVidia however once a native game in linux runs on nvidia it's usually flawless unlike amd but that's the only strong point i found.
Bought my Vega just cause I was sick and tired of adding a script, and another and another to fix issues in DE with nvidia.

However, Starcraft 2 is still a game i'm struggling with, and since I play that a lot I still do tons of dualboot :'(
Got any tips for the blizzard games ?

Starcraft 2 can be a PITA on Windows as well. When I had my desktop set to 150% the mouse mapping failed (wouldn't traverse the bottom half of the screen). The response from support was that they couldn't handle anything over 133%. Dunno if they ever patched that. If I have time this weekend I'll test it for you.

 

[KarsusTG]

Thanks. This is where PC gaming can get complicated. When it comes to benchmarking PC gaming performance, no one uses these old titles on the new gaming hardware. And there there’s a lot of different classes of hardware. My lowly Surface Go, pretty much as low as it can go in the Windows world these days on new hardware, can run Minecraft, HL2 and Portal 2 with ease. My sig rig crushes the hell of these things, blowing well past 60 FPS at 4k max settings. In any case, these titles aren’t the ones used by professional gaming hardware review sites to benchmark these days, unless it’s something like a Surface Go.

Which leads to the issue of where are Linux devices for people to buy? Maybe Dota 2 would scream on a device like a Surface Go running Linux relative to Windows 10. My guess is that would probably do better. But there’s nothing out there for anyone to test other than to build their own.

So again, complicated. Older games on slower hardware, maybe there are solid gaming wins for Linux to show. But no reviewer is going to be testing say an RTX 2080 under Linux when the reviews come out using five plus year old games.

I think the two of us agree more than we disagree, but sometimes I think we just don't understand each others viewpoint. Minecraft is still one of the most commonly played games in the world and when you start adding textures and things it can be extremely demanding (which is ridiculous imo lol.) Judging these things exclusively on extreme high end systems with sub six month old games is doing everyone a disservice. Most people looking at Linux just want to know if WoW, Diablo III, and their other games of choice will run well on Linux side.

The truth is driver updates and optimizations always go to windows first because of the user base and is not an accurate reflection of the end product. Often not by a long shot.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Casual gaming doesn't drive PC gaming. Steam on Linux is FULL of native Linux casual 2D type games and that's just not enough. Proton is about things like PUBG, Overwatch, Fortnite, Far Cry, Fallout, etc. not Candy Crush. Sure most PC games are casual, I play a number myself. But no one buys GPUs or gaming laptops or desktops to play Candy Crush.

Candy Crush is a mobile game, hence one of the glaring issues with Windows 10 as a platform that's driving people away. There is plenty available under Linux for the casual gamer and that number just grew considerably, there's a number of people running titles like Rise of the Tomb Raider under Linux that are actually finding they're getting ~20fps more under Linux than Windows using Steam Play. Yes, Proton is about PUBG, Overwatch, Fortnite, etc - I never disputed this, I'm not too sure why you even brought it up.

 

[naib]

Plus...
Pubg wont work due to DRM/anti-cheat
Equally overwatch/fortnite are not on steam so those won't work via proton


In other new feral are teasing a new native game port

 

[BloodyIron]

Uhh, I'm on an nVidia GTX 960 and I don't wrestle with it at all. I use the nVidia provided driver blob (from PPAs though), driver 396.54

I've found that AMD and nVidia drivers are quite good now.

What distro are you using? What DE are you using? If you're not, I recommend you use a GPU compositor for your DE.

Starcraft 2 is really easy to get going, so not sure where you're stuck there. What have you done so far to get setup?

Awesome,

You're using AMD gpu or nvidia ?
I found that AMD works a lot better, I've had so much issues with nVidia however once a native game in linux runs on nvidia it's usually flawless unlike amd but that's the only strong point i found.
Bought my Vega just cause I was sick and tired of adding a script, and another and another to fix issues in DE with nvidia.

However, Starcraft 2 is still a game i'm struggling with, and since I play that a lot I still do tons of dualboot :'(
Got any tips for the blizzard games ?

 

[heatlesssun]

Candy Crush is a mobile game, hence one of the glaring issues with Windows 10 as a platform that's driving people away.

Candy Crush is a causal game like Bejeweled and a ton of others that are cross platform across PC, consoles and mobile. Steam has tons of them, quite a few that do come over to Steam are even touch enabled just like their mobile offerings.

there's a number of people running titles like Rise of the Tomb Raider under Linux that are actually finding they're getting ~20fps more under Linux than Windows using Steam Play.

Any links to benchmarks of this?

​

Yes, Proton is about PUBG, Overwatch, Fortnite, etc - I never disputed this, I'm not too sure why you even brought it up.

You're always talking about casual gaming and while I agree is the bulk of gamers even on the PC it's not what drives PC gaming.

 

[heatlesssun]

I think the two of us agree more than we disagree, but sometimes I think we just don't understand each others viewpoint. Minecraft is still one of the most commonly played games in the world and when you start adding textures and things it can be extremely demanding (which is ridiculous imo lol.) Judging these things exclusively on extreme high end systems with sub six month old games is doing everyone a disservice. Most people looking at Linux just want to know if WoW, Diablo III, and their other games of choice will run well on Linux side.

The truth is driver updates and optimizations always go to windows first because of the user base and is not an accurate reflection of the end product. Often not by a long shot.

It's simply a matter of what is important to whom. People who go out and spend $2500 on GPUs for instance, yeah, they are going to want to see data and lots of it. While that's not a lot of people it's of way more interest in gaming circles that how Minecraft runs on a GT1030. Obviously you seen the countless threads in this place around the RTX 20xx series. Hell those debates around here make the Windows/Linux discussions here look like Sunday tea. When serious cash is involved, passions just run a lot higher.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Candy Crush is a causal game like Bejeweled and a ton of others that are cross platform across PC, consoles and mobile. Steam has tons of them, quite a few that do come over to Steam are even touch enabled just like their mobile offerings.

Good to hear, sadly I'm not referring to such games.

Any links to benchmarks of this?

I didn't mention benchmarks, I said there are people finding that they are getting higher FPS running certain titles under Linux than they are under Windows. The only personal opinion I don't think highly of and therefore treat with a massive degree of skepticism is your own - As you're simply too biased towards Microsoft incorrectly thinking that your needs reflect everyone. The excited feedback I'm reading regarding Steam Play I have absolutely no reason to doubt based around my own findings with the system. I can't post the Reddit link here as the forum software keeps turning the link into a media tag.

You're always talking about casual gaming and while I agree is the bulk of gamers even on the PC it's not what drives PC gaming.

You rant on about the same rubbish in every thread that even vaguely mentions Linux, your opinion means very little due to your odd perception of everything PC related.

It's simply a matter of what is important to whom. People who go out and spend $2500 on GPUs for instance, yeah, they are going to want to see data and lots of it. While that's not a lot of people it's of way more interest in gaming circles that how Minecraft runs on a GT1030. Obviously you seen the countless threads in this place around the RTX 20xx series. Hell those debates around here make the Windows/Linux discussions here look like Sunday tea. When serious cash is involved, passions just run a lot higher.

In itself a baseless claim, as always, that holds absolutely no merit at all. From what I'm reading most gamers are going to avoid Nvidia's $2500.00 GPU as it's price is an absolute joke. The reason most gamers are going to avoid a $2500.00 GPU is because the bulk of gamers are 'casual gamers', they have lives that don't involve the PC.

 

[ChadD]

RT and VR aren't mutually exclusive. RT can be used to enhance VR as well as conventional gaming. Real-time 3d reflections in VR only makes VR better.

They are not... or course one day ray tracing and VR will work no issues. Today ? We'll see it sounds like the performance hit from RT is going to be way to high for VR. VR requires higher Resolution as its driving 2 screens. If developers are targeting 1080p with RT on... then there is no way even the highest end sli setups are going to be able to drive RT and VR resolutions.

Also there is VR tech in the works to reduce the needed horsepower by doing smarter rendering and rendering less then they are today. I can't say for sure... but that type of tech does not lend itself to RT calculations as I understand it. It will be much harder for RT calculated light sources to ignore the rendering of out of sight objects as it will need that data to actually calculate rays.

IMO it adds up to pretty weak RT + VR for awhile. Perhaps some very basic RT calculation can be used for a couple of light sources. However non VR versions are going to be capable of pumping up the RT calculations. VR already has a lot working against it ... but up until now at least the visual quality was equal if you have top end gear. It sounds more and more like the option people are going to have for the next few years will be... VR without RT, or non-VR with RT.

RT tech is going to seriously impact VRs value proposition imo for the next few years. Until the hardware is both fast enough to support RT tech with 4k+ resolution.

 

[Nobu]

They are not... or course one day ray tracing and VR will work no issues. Today ? We'll see it sounds like the performance hit from RT is going to be way to high for VR. VR requires higher Resolution as its driving 2 screens. If developers are targeting 1080p with RT on... then there is no way even the highest end sli setups are going to be able to drive RT and VR resolutions.

Also there is VR tech in the works to reduce the needed horsepower by doing smarter rendering and rendering less then they are today. I can't say for sure... but that type of tech does not lend itself to RT calculations as I understand it. It will be much harder for RT calculated light sources to ignore the rendering of out of sight objects as it will need that data to actually calculate rays.

IMO it adds up to pretty weak RT + VR for awhile. Perhaps some very basic RT calculation can be used for a couple of light sources. However non VR versions are going to be capable of pumping up the RT calculations. VR already has a lot working against it ... but up until now at least the visual quality was equal if you have top end gear. It sounds more and more like the option people are going to have for the next few years will be... VR without RT, or non-VR with RT.

RT tech is going to seriously impact VRs value proposition imo for the next few years. Until the hardware is both fast enough to support RT tech with 4k+ resolution.

May also need to calculate rays differently depending on which eye it's going to. They may be able to cheat around that, but it's something else to consider.

 

[ChadD]

You're always talking about casual gaming and while I agree is the bulk of gamers even on the PC it's not what drives PC gaming.

Really ???

Casual and console gaming don't drive PC gaming ?

lol that is absurd Heatle. Like it or not... games like Cryis do not make people rich. Games like Candy Crush do.
PC games have targeted console hardware for years now.... and the majority of game development funds goes to casual games.

PC ONLY games are extremely niche. Mostly PC only means mouse and keyboard games like Civ, Star Craft ect.... shooters target consoles, RPGs target consoles. We may not love it but facts are facts.

If Linux is all of a sudden able to handle games like Fortenight and overwatch with no issues and = or close to = performance. Yes that is a massive change for the market. Like it or not... there are more gamers playing those 2 games every night then all of the PC only titles combined.

 

[ChadD]

May also need to calculate rays differently depending on which eye it's going to. They may be able to cheat around that, but it's something else to consider.

Good point... ya RT may well be the end of VR for another 10 years. (not that I personally believe the current VR push wasn't going to putter out on its own anyway).

Ya all the deferred rendering being talked about by people like Carmak.... there is just no way you can defer ray tracing calculations. And your right the dual eyes... perhaps you can fake those calculations. But I could imagine that it could lead to some odd doubling effects and stuff if they just say offset every ray for the second eye. I would imagine it would create like a Ray Traced light screen door type effect where moving at specific angles could cause odd doubling.

 

[heatlesssun]

The only personal opinion I don't think highly of and therefore treat with a massive degree of skepticism is your own

In a place like this people are going to ask for benchmarks. There are so many variables related to game performance that without some numbers and data what would even mean to anyone anyway?

You rant on about the same rubbish in every thread that even vaguely mentions Linux, your opinion means very little due to your odd perception of everything PC related.

Very pro-Linux people in very pro-Linux forums say much of the same stuff. The owner of gaming on Linux had this to say today:

One of the major worries I had initially, which I’ve seen others share, is that this could mean the end of native Linux ports. However, I have a different take on it.

When it comes to the long-term viability of Linux gaming, getting 2 or 3 AAA games natively ported a year is simply not sustainable. While I am absolutely appreciative of the effort and a big fan of the porting studios, we needed something else to complement native ports to help push us forward.

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...ture-and-what-it-means-for-linux-gaming.12412

You can't call seriously this guy anti-Linux biased but every time I've made this exact point, I'm somehow biased. We may not agree on things but a lot of things I say are completely in alignment with many very pro-Linux folks.

In itself a baseless claim, as always, that holds absolutely no merit at all. From what I'm reading most gamers are going to avoid Nvidia's $2500.00 GPU as it's price is an absolute joke.

I was referring to the RTX 2080 Ti, I pre-order two Founders Edition on Monday and right now they are sold on nVidia site. Someone is buying them.

 

[ChadD]

I was referring to the RTX 2080 Ti, I pre-order two Founders Edition on Monday and right now they are sold on nVidia site. Someone is buying them.

I hear musk sold out of flame throwers as well... Must be everyone has one.

Nvidia offering a couple hundred (perhaps a couple thousand... who knows) cards day one to people with more money then the good sense to wait and see some benches. Hardly means the 2080 will be more then 0.001% of the steam hardware survey by xmas. lol

 

[heatlesssun]

Casual and console gaming don't drive PC gaming ?

Well they certainly aren't driving RT that you seem to view positively. All I am saying is that when people go and buy things like gaming PCs, hardware and accessories they aren't looking for casual gaming experiences.

​

If Linux is all of a sudden able to handle games like Fortenight and overwatch with no issues and = or close to = performance. Yes that is a massive change for the market. Like it or not... there are more gamers playing those 2 games every night then all of the PC only titles combined.

Not sure what you're talking about. I never said anything about PC only. I said that PC gaming is driven from the down. People buy and build gaming PCs to get experiences that can't be had on other platforms. Looking at a site like this that should be obvious.

 

[Mazzspeed]

In a place like this people are going to ask for benchmarks. There are so many variables related to game performance that without some numbers and data what would even mean to anyone anyway?

In a place like this I'm sure people are capable of setting up a Linux partition and trying things for themselves.

I was referring to the RTX 2080 Ti, I pre-order two Founders Edition on Monday and right now they are sold on nVidia site. Someone is buying them.

And how many on these very forums that you hold in such grand regard relating to gaming can be quoted as pre ordering them Heatlesssun?

You need to accept the fact that nine times out of ten your obvious bias clouds your judgement.

 

[heatlesssun]

I hear musk sold out of flame throwers as well... Must be everyone has one.

Nvidia offering a couple hundred (perhaps a couple thousand... who knows) cards day one to people with more money then the good sense to wait and see some benches. Hardly means the 2080 will be more then 0.001% of the steam hardware survey by xmas. lol

Again, who is talking about numbers? Look at all of the threads on this forum along about the RTX 20xx. Top line hardware simply generates interest as it has for all of the years I've been PC gaming. As for waiting to see benchies, I ordered mine like an hour after they went on sale and the estimated ship date on them is October 8th. Pretty sure there'll be tons of benchies well before then and no problem canceling the pre-order. And there is this thing known as a return.

 

[heatlesssun]

In a place like this I'm sure people are capable of setting up a Linux partition and trying things for themselves.

I certainly can, I can just setup a drive in my sig rig like I did last summer when I was testing Linux VR. The thing from my perspective is that it often seems like busy work just replicating the things I'm already doing or did that work well. I was crushing RofTR last year at 4k maxed at around 80 FPS, SLI support in that game, when I finished it.

And how many on these very forums that you hold in such grand regard relating to gaming can be quoted as pre ordering them Heatlesssun?

You need to accept the fact that nine times out of ten your obvious bias clouds your judgement.

Maybe a dozen folks in all the threads I looked through? I'm not saying that everyone is buying them but yeah, in a place like this, people some buy this kind of stuff and have for decades. Not sure what's so surprising about that.

 

[ChadD]

I certainly can, I can just setup a drive in my sig rig like I did last summer when I was testing Linux VR. The thing from my perspective is that it often seems like busy work just replicating the things I'm already doing or did that work well. I was crushing RofTR last year at 4k maxed at around 80 FPS, SLI support in that game, when I finished it.

Maybe a dozen folks in all the threads I looked through? I'm not saying that everyone is buying them but yeah, in a place like this, people some buy this kind of stuff and have for decades. Not sure what's so surprising about that.

You tested something in a very early beta... and everyone told you stick to windows. As has been said what 1000 times now if you want VR use windows its the only option the little VR companies support.

Valves support a ton of stuff its the type of company they are. Steam Linux VR clearly isn't a major R&D expenditure.

The simple fact you always fail to realize. This place is NICHE. Extremely niche. The number of gamers reading a [H] is stupid small. Yes we all love [H] and I believe more people should be here. However that isn't going to change. The number of serious PC gamers with $2000+ gaming rigs is such a small fraction of the market. Clearly that fact shocks you... but facts are facts. The vast majority of the market is mid range GPUs Mid range CPUs... and whatever MB is 10 bucks cheaper then the rest at the time of purchase.

In these threads you always seem to project your own personal tastes onto the general market. It would be like a car guy claiming that some new $100k+ sports car is a game changer and its going to change the way the entire world buys cars. lol

Linux gaming more then serves the mass market.... if this new push for one click installs of windows games takes off. I don't expect it will change much unless OEMS get behind this in some way. For sure if Ubuntu boxes can all of a sudden one button install games like Fortnight / Overwatch... and the mass market games that sell mid range cards. Some OEMS are going to be much more likely to sell preinstalled Linux. IMO that will be the actual game changer here. Nothing changes until the plebs that should never ever ever attempt to install an OS (Linux or Windows) can buy a Linux machine easily.

 

[Mazzspeed]

I certainly can, I can just setup a drive in my sig rig like I did last summer when I was testing Linux VR. The thing from my perspective is that it often seems like busy work just replicating the things I'm already doing or did that work well. I was crushing RofTR last year at 4k maxed at around 80 FPS, SLI support in that game, when I finished it.

How unfortunate, luckily no one cares. How many times does it need to be stated that what you believe to be all wholesome and wonderful does not automatically reflect onto everyone else? Why can't you let people discuss a great new feature of Linux without bringing your usual Windows biased negativity and unrealistic expectations of not only what constitutes a gamer, but the average HOCP user, into every thread that even vaguely mentions Linux.

Maybe a dozen folks in all the threads I looked through? I'm not saying that everyone is buying them but yeah, in a place like this, people some buy this kind of stuff and have for decades. Not sure what's so surprising about that.

Right, great! Now we have a rough measurement as quoted by yourself! So lets call that 'dozen' (probably half a dozen tops) 'hardcore gamers' and lets call everyone else 'casual gamers' - Overall they can make up a group called 'gamers'. The fact is Heatlesssun, the bulk of gamers are casual gamers - They aren't going to rush out and buy the very best processor Intel make, they aren't going to rush out and buy a Threadripper, they aren't going to buy numerous VR kits, they aren't going to buy a 40" 4k 144Hz monitor just to pay games on their PC and they certainly aren't going to all rush out and buy the overpriced RTX 2080Ti in droves.

 

[naib]

Wait so this is about proton integrated into steam AND again VR on Linux is being thrown by the usual naysayer...

 

[Mazzspeed]

Wait so this is about proton integrated into steam AND again VR on Linux is being thrown by the usual naysayer...

Is it ever any different?

 

[naib]

Is it ever any different?

Nop , so let's try this

 

[ManofGod]

Nop , so let's try this

View attachment 99063

LOL! No, Windows 10 does not suck as an OS, any more than any other Windows named OS ever did. Unfortunately, the PC industry is shrinking and that hurts us, as PC users.

 

[naib]

Lol no, it sucks.
You and your bumchum are the epitomy of a prisoner in Allegort of the cave

 

[ManofGod]

Lol no, it sucks.
You and your bumchum are the epitomy of a prisoner in Allegort of the cave

A prisoner? LOL! Sure thing dude, sure thing. So, what happens when I turn off my computer, am I still a prisoner? I would be more inclined to think that a prisoner is someone who willingly limits themselves to only one OS and just hates on all others.

 

[naib]

A prisoner? LOL! Sure thing dude, sure thing. So, what happens when I turn off my computer, am I still a prisoner? I would be more inclined to think that a prisoner is someone who willingly limits themselves to only one OS and just hates on all others.

I see you are not familiar with Allegort of the cave

 

[ManofGod]

I see you are not familiar with Allegort of the cave

Gee, let me just run right out and follow your path too nonsense. If you find that limiting yourself is your strength, that is cool, enjoy. I refuse to limit myself and simply continue to enjoy computers and computing in general. On the other hand, Linux gaming seems to significantly require Microsoft Windows just to run, let alone run well. That should tell you something.