Starting a new SFF build and I have a few questions...

CompuG##K

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EDIT:

Now that I've had most of my questions answered, I've now turned this thread into a full worklog for those that are interested in the Silverstone Sugo SG05 and the Zotac 9300-ITX WIFI.




I've made the go ahead to start my first SFF gaming LAN box build, and I have a few questions for you guys.

I do plan on making this a decent gaming system, with the smallest dimensions possible, while still being able to fit a decent video card.

First of all, I've already ordered my motherboard. I chose the ZOTAC Geforce 9300 ITX Wifi because of it's feature-richness and its PCI-E slot.

I will probably be going for a Geforce GTS 250 since it only needs one PCI-E connector, and should be able to work in Hybrid SLI with the onboard 9300.

Now what has me a bit worried is finding a case that is both small enough to be easily portable, but roomy enough to fit the GTS 250.

I've not yet had much time to research all the SFF cases that there are, but one has stood out from the rest. The Silverstone Sugo SG05. I really like the layout of this case, and how small it is, but I'm concerned about the 300w SFX power supply that it comes with.

Would 300w be enough to power a Q6600, 2x2gb DDR2 800, GTS 250, 2.5" HDD, and a Slim Optical drive? I probably won't overclock the cpu much, if not at all.

Any other recommendations on SFF cases?
 
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Dangman

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Would 300w be enough to power a Q6600, 2x2gb DDR2 800, GTS 250, 2.5" HDD, and a Slim Optical drive? I probably won't overclock the cpu much, if not at all.

Any other recommendations on SFF cases?

A good quality 300W might be able to pull that off. However, I'm not sure if that included FSP 300W PSU is actually a good quality PSU.
 

CompuG##K

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A good quality 300W might be able to pull that off. However, I'm not sure if that included FSP 300W PSU is actually a good quality PSU.

Well the SG05 site says it's 80 Plus certified, but that could mean jack when it comes to running the hardware that I want.

I did come across this SilenX 400w modular SFX power supply, but I don't know if it's a reliable brand or not, so I'm kind of on the fence about it.

I've looked at some other cases like the SG01 and they all seem too big for my liking. So far the SG05 is the only Mini-ITX case I've found that can accommodate a 9" video card such as the GTS 250...
 

CompuG##K

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I've just about decided to get the SG05, but I'm having trouble finding a place to buy it. It's out of stock or unavailable at every place I've checked. Anybody know of any place where it's available?
 

Dangman

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Well the SG05 site says it's 80 Plus certified, but that could mean jack when it comes to running the hardware that I want.

It does mean jack sometimes. The 80Plus people, last time I checked, don't monitor or report ripple readings. So while a PSU could be efficient, it could still have out of spec ripple that can kill your PC. So basically it's efficient at killing your PC ;)

Anyway, SilenX isn't a reliable brand at all.
 

CompuG##K

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It does mean jack sometimes. The 80Plus people, last time I checked, don't monitor or report ripple readings. So while a PSU could be efficient, it could still have out of spec ripple that can kill your PC. So basically it's efficient at killing your PC ;)

Anyway, SilenX isn't a reliable brand at all.

Ok, well how about this SeaSonic SS-350SFE? It looks like it's getting some pretty favorable reviews. Looks like a decent build quality for a 350w sfx, except for the fact that it has no PCI-E connector, but while I'm shortening wires and getting rid of plugs I don't need, I can mod in a PCI-E connector in place of a couple molex plugs, right?


Still searching for that SG05. I found it at Case-mod.com, but I read a lot of bad things about that site...
 

Dangman

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Ok, well how about this SeaSonic SS-350SFE? It looks like it's getting some pretty favorable reviews. Looks like a decent build quality for a 350w sfx, except for the fact that it has no PCI-E connector, but while I'm shortening wires and getting rid of plugs I don't need, I can mod in a PCI-E connector in place of a couple molex plugs, right?

It's a Seasonic so there's a very good chance that it's of high quality. FSP does not have that high of a rep for me. Yes you can just use molex to PCI-E adaptors.

You might want to read through the last dozen or so posts in this thread:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1372339
 

CompuG##K

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Ok, I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer for the SG05 to become more widely available...

My Zotac 9300-ITX WIFI should arrive tomorrow. The next issue I have is finding an adequate low profile cooler for the Q6600 that's going into this system. I've seen a few already, such as the Zalman 8700 NT and the Coolermaster GemenII that should fit within the 78mm limit of the SG05, but I don't know if they'll clear all of the motherboard components and ram...

Any suggestions on cooling for a Q6600 in a SG05?
 

pc299

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Ok, I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer for the SG05 to become more widely available...

My Zotac 9300-ITX WIFI should arrive tomorrow. The next issue I have is finding an adequate low profile cooler for the Q6600 that's going into this system. I've seen a few already, such as the Zalman 8700 NT and the Coolermaster GemenII that should fit within the 78mm limit of the SG05, but I don't know if they'll clear all of the motherboard components and ram...

Any suggestions on cooling for a Q6600 in a SG05?

haha... a GeminII is bigger than the entire SG05... that will definitely not work.

Let me know how your build goes, I've been toying with the idea of doing something similar myself.
 

CompuG##K

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Hah, I mistook the GeminII for another cooler. I meant to say the GeminII S. :D Oh well... I've been looking at the Silverstone NT06 coolers as a possibility as well.

The Zotac 9300-ITX came in today. Since this was the first mini-ITX motherboard I've seen in person, I was like OMG TINY when I pulled it out of the box. :D
 
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CompuG##K

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Ah, thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately I went ahead and ordered it from a place I found last week, CentralComputers.com. At first I wasn't sure if I could trust them or not, but they carried out my order and shipped it in a timely manner. They even knocked the shipping from $30 down to $20 for me (I don't know why, but I'll take it :D) It's due for arrival this Wednesday, all the way from California (I'm on the east coast in Georgia).

I received my Coolermaster GeminII S today. I posted some pics of it over in the Zotac 9300-ITX thread, but I'll go ahead and post them here too as part of my worklog.

The heatsink is just sitting on top of the socket in the pics. I haven't mounted it quite yet, but this should give an idea of how much room there is to work with.


As you can see, the heatsink is almost the size of the entire motherboard! :eek:









The notched side of the heatsink just manages to clear the NB heatsink.





It also just manages to clear the ram. If you use standard height ram with this heatsink/mobo combination, you may have to install the ram in the slot closest to the cpu first. I don't think it will have enough room to be inserted or taken out after the heatsink is mounted. Luckily I plan on using low profile memory so I shouldn't run into this problem.






So there is pretty much only one way this cooler can be oriented to clear all nearby components. I'm going to replace the 25mm fan with a 20mm one so it will be short enough to cram into a Sugo SG05, as Exocet956 has done with his build.

The only other concern that I have is the retention bracket. There is a small group of components that is near one of the mounting holes on the back of the motherboard. The retention bracket has to lay on top of those components, making it uneven. I don't much like the idea of having a large amount of force being placed on an uneven retention bracket. The manual says that I can mount the cooler without the bracket by using the little rubber spacers that are included, so I may have to use that option.
 

pc299

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Looks good sofar... you should take pictures of the bottom... you may be able to use some foam rubber stuff to pad the entire bracket (like the stuff that comes with some backplates) to make it more even and not damage the components.

You'll have to post more pictures as the build progresses. Have you played with the BIOS at all? Can you at least adjust RAM voltages and timings? (If I did a similar build I'd want to use 1066 RAM)
 

mavalpha

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Can one of you guys who already has this board please do me a favour? Somehow?

The 9300 should be able to handle RAID5, and I don't see any auxiliary chips to run the eSATA port, so I'm 99% sure the eSATA is still part of the native chipset ability. Can anyone hook up an external drive and see if the BIOS will let you include it in a RAID volume? It would be a pleasant surprise if they left that functionality enabled.
 

CompuG##K

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Yeah I noticed the price had gone up everywhere else after I had ordered mine from Central Computers. It didn't matter to me at first because I thought I was going to have to pay the $30 shipping from Central Computers when I ordered mine, but they only charged me $20 to ship it across the country. So my order came to be $120 shipped, not bad I guess. Maybe its a first time buyer deal or something, who knows.


Anyways, I have a couple of shots of the back of my board to show the little issue with the GeminII S retention bracket.

The small group of components are located at the corner nearby one of the mounting holes for the heatsink.



As you can see, the retention bracket lays right on top of those components, keeping it from being perfectly flush with the motherboard. The instructions say I can use 4 of the included spacers if the retention bracket doesn't fit, so that may be my only option.

 

CompuG##K

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Welp, the SG05 arrived today. :D

I didn't get many pictures due to the excitement of throwing what parts I had together, but I did manage to get a few after I got some pieces together. I've made some observations and I would like to share them with you.

First of all, some of the cables that could be snaked around the edges of the case to keep out of the way are too short to do so, namely the USB and front panel audio cables. With the power supply, the couple of cables that just need to reach a couple of inches are way too long.

In short, I'm having to do some serious work on cable management. The first thing I did with the power supply was to pop the cover and start grouping all of the wires for each connection together.

The 6-pin PCI-E and 4-pin 12v ATX connectors were pretty fine, so I didn't mess with them. On the other hand, the SATA and Molex power cables had their wires tangled up into the wires of the 24-pin power cable. So I went ahead and marked the wires for both cables and snipped them.

I plan on shortening most of the power cables anyway, so I'll be doing much more snipping soon. I untangled the SATA and Molex wires and then zip tied them back together so they wouldn't get mixed up. When I figure out how long I need them, I'll shorten and reattach the SATA and Molex cables. Next on the list is shortening the 24-pin power cable, which means I'm going to have to mark every single wire to make sure I don't screw up.

I'm probably going to get the hardware needed to re-pin and re-crimp the severed wires. I'll probably get a set of black power connectors and replace all of them while I do the wire shortening. It'll be a heck of a lot easier than trying to solder a bunch of wires back together.

Also I want to sort of botch together a sort of modular cable system for the molex and sata cables. It is very unlikely that I'll use molex for this build. Both my drives will use sata power plugs. With that said, I want to cut the molex cable back almost to the power supply and put a male plug there, and then attach a female plug to the severed end of the molex cable. That way I can still use it if I need to in the future. I might just do the same to the SATA cable as well, so I can pull the cable at any time and make adjustments to its length as the build progresses.




Tiny case, tiny box.


Looks small, but hard to tell the size in this pic.


Compared to a CD case. Much easier to tell how big (or small) this case is now.






The power cable for the front intake fan was way too long, so I shortened it and put some heat shrink tubing on the solder joints, as well as a large piece on the length of the wire.






The USB and Front panel audio cables are too short to snake around the edge of the case to the plugs on the motherboard, and I don't want to stretch them diagonally across the case, so I'm not sure what I'm gonna do. Maybe I can get extensions for them? I don't really want to tackle manually lengthening them. They're just laying in the case right now until I figure out what to do with them.




I was worried that the GeminII S heatpipes would come in contact with the wall of the case because they hung a little over the edge of the motherboard. This isn't the case though. There is plenty of space for the heatpipes. :D









That's about it. The case is a bit wobbly when the drive mounts and power supply support are taken out, but it's pretty strong when they're in. I removed the 3.5" hard drive bay since I don't plan on using one. That freed up a good deal of space. There isn't much clearance at all between the top of the cpu cooler and the power supply. I'm going to try having the cpu cooler blow air through the bottom of the power supply and around the sides of it through the top vent. I'll just have to play around with the airflow when I get it up and running.

Stay tuned for more updates!
 

Exocet956

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I was sure you would be able to fit the heatsink and cover on but Im glad for the pics that prove it. Math just doesn't have the warm fuzzy feeling of pictures proving your theory. (unless you are a scientist or something ;) )
 

CompuG##K

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I've almost come to a decision on the power supply.

I still don't really know if 300w will be enough for this system. Even if it is, I still don't want to be pushing the limits of the power supply, leading to an eventual failure.

On top of that, the 300w FSB power supply that came with the case wreaks of poor build quality. The circuitry on the inside looks sloppy and rushed.
The thing that scares me is that if I tried this power supply, and it did have a catastrophic failure, my components would probably go up in smoke with it. I don't really want to take that chance.

So, I've decided to use the Seasonic SS-350SFE power supply instead.

On the plus side, it outputs 350w which seats it farther from the estimated power usage that I calculated, which is around 270w. It also has dual 18A 12v rails, compared to the 14A and 16A of the FSB. There's also the build quality that's expected from such a well regarded power supply manufacturer.

On the down side, it is nearly 2 inches longer than the FSB power supply. This means I'm going to have to modify the front drive bracket to make more room. This will probably be the most difficult part. Also, there is no bottom fan on this unit. I'll have to cut a hole and try to cram in a thin profile fan so I can exhaust the air from the cpu cooler.

Also, this power supply has no PCI-E 6-pin connector, but that shouldn't be a problem. I won't be using any 4-pin molex plugs in this system. The cpu and front intake fans are powered off the motherboard. The slim optical and 2.5" hdd I'll be using will be powered by the SATA power plugs.

That leaves two cables with assorted molex and floppy plugs. My plan is to sever both cables, and have both of them lead into a single 6-pin PCI-E plug, much like using a 4-pin molex to 6-pin PCI-E adapter.

Using two different molex cables for the PCI-E will both reduce cable clutter from needless molex plugs, and ensure stable power for the video card.

I'm compiling a shopping cart on FrozenCpu of all the tools I need. Pin extractors, pin crimpers, new plugs, an assortment of pins, cable sleeving, the works...

It will be a lot of work, but it will be well worth it to know for sure I have a quality power source for this system.
 

Exocet956

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Beware i have the Seasonic 350w sfx power supply in a different itx box and it is very, and i repeat very deep. I doubt you could mount it in the sg-05 unless you are willing to sacrifice your optical and hard drive bay. I will take a look at it tonight to give you exact measurements but i don't think it will fit. It is not a loud power supply, but the fan is of less diamater so the rotation and noise will be higher. But the number one reason i don't think you want to use it even if you can get it to fit, is the utter and complete lack of vents on the bottom of the power supply. The extra length will also obstruct 90-95% of the fan exhaust.

Im not saying the power supply is not a good quality one but is not a good match for you case and airflow setup.

I have my FSP 300w driving a overclocked 7750 and 4670 right now. I plan on adding a 4770 when it comes out but while cheap looking seems to be doing the job quite well.

I feel your pain, sfx power supply's with good components, good output ratings, quiet, and not too long length are hard to find.
 

CompuG##K

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Perhaps I'm being paranoid. Maybe the stock 300w FSB will be enough, but I don't want to take any chances at all on this one. Do you think your setup would still function if your 4670 was replaced with something like a 4850? The GTS 250 1gb power consumption is similar to that of the 4850. The Q6600 is a 95w TDP processor, and I do plan on at least overclocking it to 3ghz which further stresses my power budget. The cpu and to a lesser extent the video card are definitely my biggest concern since they'll be drawing the most power.

Other than the cpu and video card, I'll be using a couple of low profile DDR2 800 sticks rated for 1.8v to keep them from blocking airflow from the front intake to the cpu cooler. Zotac lists these modules as compatible with this board, so that's also a plus. The only other things after that are the slim optical and 2.5" hdd that I'll use.


If I do use the Seasonic...

I'm aware that the Seasonic is big and has no bottom vent, but I was planning on doing some modding anyway to force it to fit. Nobody said this build was going to be easy. ;)

I got the measurements for the power supply off of Seasonic's product info page. It is 5.1" (130mm) long, which means it's about 2 inches longer than the stock FSB unit. There's already a significant gap between the front of the stock psu and the drive bracket, so I only need about 1" more space to be able to squeeze the Seasonic in.

To make room for the extra length of the power supply, I can mod the drive bracket and shove it forward some more. I see a lot of wasted space that can definitely be cut out of the drive bracket in order to shove it forward more without hurting the position or alignment of the optical drive.


As for ventilation, I was planning on using a hole saw and cutting a vent hole in the bottom of it and putting some sort of protective grill on it. That way the cpu cooler can blow all of its air directly through the power supply. As far as exhaust goes, I could replace the stock 60mm exhaust fan in the power supply with a higher CFM fan to help get the hot air out of the power supply more quickly. Higher CFM fan would be louder, but I'm not worried about noise at all since I'll be using headphones anyway.

I'm gonna hold off on modding anything until I get all of my parts, that way I can get some accurate measurements on exactly how much space I need.
 

Exocet956

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Perhaps I'm being paranoid. Maybe the stock 300w FSB will be enough, but I don't want to take any chances at all on this one. Do you think your setup would still function if your 4670 was replaced with something like a 4850? The GTS 250 1gb power consumption is similar to that of the 4850. The Q6600 is a 95w TDP processor, and I do plan on at least overclocking it to 3ghz which further stresses my power budget. The cpu and to a lesser extent the video card are definitely my biggest concern since they'll be drawing the most power.

Other than the cpu and video card, I'll be using a couple of low profile DDR2 800 sticks rated for 1.8v to keep them from blocking airflow from the front intake to the cpu cooler. Zotac lists these modules as compatible with this board, so that's also a plus. The only other things after that are the slim optical and 2.5" hdd that I'll use.


If I do use the Seasonic...

I'm aware that the Seasonic is big and has no bottom vent, but I was planning on doing some modding anyway to force it to fit. Nobody said this build was going to be easy. ;)

I got the measurements for the power supply off of Seasonic's product info page. It is 5.1" (130mm) long, which means it's about 2 inches longer than the stock FSB unit. There's already a significant gap between the front of the stock psu and the drive bracket, so I only need about 1" more space to be able to squeeze the Seasonic in.

To make room for the extra length of the power supply, I can mod the drive bracket and shove it forward some more. I see a lot of wasted space that can definitely be cut out of the drive bracket in order to shove it forward more without hurting the position or alignment of the optical drive.


As for ventilation, I was planning on using a hole saw and cutting a vent hole in the bottom of it and putting some sort of protective grill on it. That way the cpu cooler can blow all of its air directly through the power supply. As far as exhaust goes, I could replace the stock 60mm exhaust fan in the power supply with a higher CFM fan to help get the hot air out of the power supply more quickly. Higher CFM fan would be louder, but I'm not worried about noise at all since I'll be using headphones anyway.

I'm gonna hold off on modding anything until I get all of my parts, that way I can get some accurate measurements on exactly how much space I need.


I have run a 8800gt (65nm) in this box before and it was working fine. My 7750 is a 95w tdp cpu as well. the 4850 should use about the same amount of power as the 8800gt but i have no idea if the gts 250 will be too much to handle.

I don't see how you can modify the bracket and still use the 3.5 hdd mount that slides on the bottom. as far as i can tell it sits almost flush with the side of the optical mount.


edit:

I see you mean the front of the bracket, if you do that the drive will not mount so the front of the optical drive matches front bezel. ie the mount points for the optical drive leave little to be done for space. Also beware the ultra small screws for the optical drive (very easy to lose). if you tighten them too much the drive will not open (non slot loading.)
 

CompuG##K

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I have run a 8800gt (65nm) in this box before and it was working fine. My 7750 is a 95w tdp cpu as well. the 4850 should use about the same amount of power as the 8800gt but i have no idea if the gts 250 will be too much to handle.

I don't see how you can modify the bracket and still use the 3.5 hdd mount that slides on the bottom. as far as i can tell it sits almost flush with the side of the optical mount.


edit:

I see you mean the front of the bracket, if you do that the drive will not mount so the front of the optical drive matches front bezel. ie the mount points for the optical drive leave little to be done for space. Also beware the ultra small screws for the optical drive (very easy to lose). if you tighten them too much the drive will not open (non slot loading.)

Yeah, I was thinking of chopping some off the front of the drive rail so it could slide forward some more. I'll probably just cut off enough to slide the drive bracket forward as far as it needs to go. That will take care of fitting the power supply. Then I'll modify or re-engineer the vertical optical drive mounts to allow the drive to be flush with the front.

Or.....I could save myself a lot of trouble and just use the FSB power supply. You seem to be confident that it will be enough for me, and I don't doubt your confidence at all. If I had a dual core cpu, or a video card that didn't require a PCI-E connector, I would use the FSB for sure. I just want to make extra extra sure that I'm well above what this system will actually use, so I won't be putting the power supply under a big stress when I'm doing something demanding like playing Crysis or whatever.

So many options... I'm already going to have to butcher a power supply to shorten the cables and get rid of the ones I won't be using. I guess part of wanting to go with the Seasonic is the fact that I don't want to go through all the trouble of sleeving and fixing up the cables for the FSB only for it to potentially crap out on me later on if it turns out I am stressing it. :( So basically when I'm weighing the options "Sleeve and shorten cables for 300w" or "Sleeve and shorten cables for 350w well regarded brand"

With that said, I think I'll just go with the Seasonic since I'm going to have to do a ton of butchering and modifying anyway. Besides, it's a departure from my usual "slap some parts together and call it a computer" routine. :) I'm not going to do anything though until I have all of the parts here.

Maybe I'll use the FSB in a future HTPC build with a smaller case and lower power parts.
 

Exocet956

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it certainly is a tough call but i look forward towards you results. I plan on a zotac q6600 combo myself. I have one of the 105w B3 steppings as well :eek: . As far as confidence in the power supply i can only say it hasn't crapped out on me yet and i have oced a 2.7 ghz stock 7750 (95w) to 3.2 and run about 4 different cards in that case including the 8800gt and 4670.

The cables if you thought were long and more than necessary on the fsp be prepared for a big shock when you get the seasonic. Its about twice as bad.

The 4770 (40nm) when its released should be almost as fast as the 4850 and faster than the 4830 while using much less power. it might even not have a extra pci-e power connector. It should be a sweet spot for power performance and price at around $99-119. Guru3d had a pre-release sample that looked like this may be the best card for sff or itx boxes in my opinion. The 4750 should be well under $99 if rumors hold up.
 

CompuG##K

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I looked at what cables the Seasonic had on Newegg. I'm going to shorten and sleeve the SATA, P4, and 24-pin cables. I'm going to get some black plugs and all the tools needed to crimp and reattach the plugs after I shorten and sleeve the cables.

As for the two molex cables on the Seasonic, I'm going to take the "2x 4-pin molex to 6-pin PCI-E adapter" concept and take it one step further. Since I won't be needing molex connectors in this system, I'll just have both the molex cables wired into a single 6-pin PCI-E plug instead. If I wire it up just like it would be if I was using an adapter cable, it should work right?


EDIT:

Well I've got $38 in parts in my shopping cart on Frozencpu.

Here's what I'm getting:

PSU Sleeving Kit - Black
Dual Head ATX pin removal tool
45 x ATX connector pins
24-pin ATX connector - Black
6-pin PCI-E connector - Black
4-pin 12v connector - Black
2x SATA Ez-Crimp connector -Black

I realized I already had a molex crimper here, so that knocked $24 off of my total. :D

Also, I've got some front panel USB and Audio extension cables ready to order at FrontX. I'm going to use the extensions to snake the cables around the perimeter of the case, keeping them out of the way.

This is probably the farthest extent I've ever gone to to minimize cable clutter in a case. This is definitely one of the more enjoyable builds I've worked on.
 

CompuG##K

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I have a question for your Exocet, since you own one of the Seasonic 350w models. Do you think there is enough room on the bottom of the power supply to cut a 120mm hole? If I can direct 100% of the cpu fan's airflow into the power supply, and straight out the back vent of it then that will be good.
 

Logan321

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Did you buy the power supply already? If you didn't, you should see if you can get ahold of this Nexus Value 430 reviewed at SilentPcReview. It's 12.5CM deep (just big enough for a 120mm fan) and the quietest power supply they've reviewed.

Bah, noticed your post about the depth of your Seasonic is 13CM, so buying a new PS to save a 1/2 CM hardly seems worthwhile.
 

CompuG##K

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Is that power supply an ATX unit? From what I can see in the pictures, it is an ATX psu. Of course that means it won't work because it'll be too tall and too wide to fit the SFX sized bracket on the SG05. :(

I've drawn up a to-scale layout of the underside of the Seasonic psu, and from what I can tell, I can fit a 120mm hole into it. Keep in mind, I just want a hole for airflow. I won't need to worry about cramming a fan into the psu. The cpu fan will be just a few mm from the bottom of the psu and will be sucking air away from the heatsink and blowing directly through that hole and out the back of the psu.
 

Logan321

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Is that power supply an ATX unit? From what I can see in the pictures, it is an ATX psu. Of course that means it won't work because it'll be too tall and too wide to fit the SFX sized bracket on the SG05. :(

I've drawn up a to-scale layout of the underside of the Seasonic psu, and from what I can tell, I can fit a 120mm hole into it. Keep in mind, I just want a hole for airflow. I won't need to worry about cramming a fan into the psu. The cpu fan will be just a few mm from the bottom of the psu and will be sucking air away from the heatsink and blowing directly through that hole and out the back of the psu.

I did see someone do a similar mod to their power supply and mount the fan on the outside of the power supply case for the cpu heatsink. Just another option. You might be able to eliminate the power supply's existing fan this way as well.
 

CompuG##K

Gawd
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
586
Modding a fan onto the power supply probably wouldn't be the ideal way to go in my case. Not when the power supply will be pretty much laying on top of my GeminII S cpu cooler anyways. That's how much clearance I have in the SG05. With that said, cutting a hole for airflow would probably be the ideal way to go. As far as the 60mm exhaust fan, I may be able to get rid of it like you said. With a 120mm fan blowing directly into the power supply from the bottom, the positive pressure alone should be enough to force the air out of the rear and front vents on the power supply.

I'm waiting on gathering the funds to make my next round of orders right now. Should be ready to order next week. Until I get the stuff I need to mod the power supply and the power supply itself, I'm pretty much at a standstill. :(
 

Exocet956

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
1,387
I have a question for your Exocet, since you own one of the Seasonic 350w models. Do you think there is enough room on the bottom of the power supply to cut a 120mm hole? If I can direct 100% of the cpu fan's airflow into the power supply, and straight out the back vent of it then that will be good.

Yes but damn near 100% of the psu would need to be cut. I don't know where the internal components would go if you cut a hole that large. Maybe some vent slits or drill small holes but a hole the entire size of the fan would be near impossible.
 

CompuG##K

Gawd
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
586
According to my drawings, yes it would take up nearly the entire thing, but it should still fit. If I'm not mistaken, all I would have to do is pop the cover off, get a 120mm hole saw, make a hole, file it smooth, make/tap screw holes and pop a fan grill on it. The cover is just a cover, meaning it wouldn't make the power supply casing any weaker if a hole was made into it, would it?

Besides, a fan grill like this one would reinforce the hole that would be made. As far as the internal components go, I shouldn't run into any problems with them since they're mounted hanging from the top of the power supply and not on the bottom.

I'm basing my idea on the mod that best [486] did to his Seasonic 350w. He was able to make a hole in the bottom to mount a 92mm fan to from the outside. I want to do what he did, except make my hole 120mm, attach a regular fan grill to it for protection/stability, and use the fan from the GeminII S to blow air through it.
 

Exocet956

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
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1,387
Wow i assumed the components were mounted on the bottom not top hanging down. although now that i think about it you could always turn the power supply upside down for the same effect.

are you just planning on a hole for the airflow or mounting a fan on the psu sucking air off the heatsink? The fan would not likely be centered on the heatsink if you mounted it on the psu.
 

CompuG##K

Gawd
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
586
I was just going to cut a hole for airflow and use the GeminII S fan to suck air off the heatsink since it's already going to be right up against the power supply like you showed me in your pics. The hole will probably be offset a little from the cpu fan, but it should still work.
 

Exocet956

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
1,387
I was just going to cut a hole for airflow and use the GeminII S fan to suck air off the heatsink since it's already going to be right up against the power supply like you showed me in your pics. The hole will probably be offset a little from the cpu fan, but it should still work.

That should work. I look forward to your pics. I am especially interested in pics of the modification to the drive tray to allow the seasonic to fit. I just can't picture how you can do it with out sacrificing the 3.5 hdd mount.
 

CompuG##K

Gawd
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
586
Yeah, I'll have to find out what I'm going to do about that. Since I won't be using a 3.5" drive, I won't need the hdd mount for it anyway. I'm going to be using a larger capacity (320gb or so) 2.5" drive. I didn't like the position of the 3.5" mount anyway because it blocks way too much of the airflow from the front intake fan. If I find that I need more hdd space, I can always get an external eSATA drive to hook into the rear panel sata port.
 

CompuG##K

Gawd
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
586
Well, I've just ordered the Seasonic 350w power supply. :D I would go ahead an order the stuff I have on Frozencpu, but one of the items I'm getting is out of stock. I'd much rather get it all at once than have to do two separate orders, so I'll check back whenever I'm ready to order the rest of my parts next week.

In the meantime, while I'm waiting for my power supply to arrive, I've done the next best thing. I made a to-scale cardstock replica of the power supply, complete with the 120mm hole that I intend to add to the real thing.











When placed into the case, the hole lined up very nicely with the cpu fan. It is a bit offset, but roughly 85 - 90% of the cpu fan's airflow is going to go right through the power supply and out the back. The rest will go around the power supply and out the case vents on the side and top.






















My only concern is the fact that so much air is going to be forced through the small 60mm hole in the back and what vents in the front that aren't covered up by the power supply support bracket. Is this going to be a big hindrance on the cooling of both the cpu and the power supply? With so much airflow coming into the power supply, would the 60mm power supply exhaust fan even be necessary?


Anyway, once I get the real power supply and test it to make sure it works in this setup, I'll do the necessary modifications to it, mount it, and then move on to modifying the drive bracket to make it fit once again.





I'm going to make a cardstock replica of the drive bracket next, and then start working out how I'm going to chop enough off of it so I can slide it forward in the case enough to clear the power supply.
 

JonDoms

Gawd
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
623
Wow nice thread so far. Did you order the GPU yet? Note the GTS 250 and the Zotac 9300 do not in ANY way operate in hybrid SLI. Sucks yea I know I looked it up after the fact. I will have the same mobo, case, and gpu. I am just using a e8400 instead and a OCZ Vertex ssd. Parts are laying around my garage. Haven't had time to start this project. Sigh.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/hybrid_sli_desktop.html

The 9300itx supports the GeForce Boost technology, but not the hybrid power.
The GTS 250 supports the hybrid power, but not the GeForce Boost.
Go figure right?
I might stick with my 4850.
 

CompuG##K

Gawd
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
586
Haven't ordered the GPU quite yet. Sucks that I won't be able to use the onboard and video card together with Hybrid SLI/Geforce Boost, but oh well. I'll probably stick with the GTS 250 anyway since the chipset is also made by Nvidia.

I know a 4850 would probably work, but Vista wouldn't play nice with two separate display drivers. That is unless of course I could completely disable the onboard video and opt out of installing the drivers for it in the chipset driver pack. That would be kind of a waste though if I ever wanted to..say... have the onboard video drive another display or something...

The GTS 250 1gb is pretty much on par with the 4850 isn't it?



EDIT:

Well I finished the drive bracket replica. It isn't 100% exact, after all it is bendy cardstock that's taped together, but it should get the job done. :D







So basically what I'll do is start chopping off bits of this replica to make it fit. Since it gives me a good idea where all the mounting holes for the optical drive will end up, I'll have a much easier time with modding the mock-up and getting it right rather than screwing up the real thing through trial and error.
 
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