Started to suspect I've been scammed

K

ksot

Weaksauce
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Jan 2, 2009
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I recently purchased a G1 Guerilla motherboard in this forum for $100 from the user Thorian88. http://hardforum.com/member.php?u=245626

Here is the sale thread, although I contacted him Via PM.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1770469&highlight=

Granted it took over a week to set up Amazon Payments and verify my bank account to send him money through no fault of my own, but this delay in shipping seems pretty unacceptable. Here's a transcript of our PMs to each other after I sent the money. I had already given him my address BTW.

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08-23-2013 HIM
that's fine, i'll have it shipped tomorrow evening
what's your address?

08-24-2013 ME
Address removed

09-03-2013 ME
Hey there,

I was just wondering if you had a tracking number for it? Just worried it got lost.

09-03-2013 HIM
sorry for the late late late late response... sheesh. I just shipped it out.. I know it's been forever.. been in the hospital...

09-03-2013 ME
Aw sorry to hear about that. Can I have a tracking number for it?

09-12-2013 ME
It is now 7 business days since you claimed you sent it. I have not received my item nor heard a peep from you. What gives?

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Seems like he's vanished. He is selling other things in this forum. Should I give him more time? Should I file a dispute with Amazon payments (if they even have that)?

Thanks

Edit: Seems to be even worse than I thought. Unless this is a different user with the exact same name or this guy had two G1 motherboards (unlikely based on the posts detailing his woes with the MB and his details about buying a different brand for replacement), he knew this item was failing before selling it on here and did not mention it at all: http://www.overclock.net/t/952542/g...owners-discussion-info-club/550#post_20374804

Quoting just in case he deletes the post:

"well.. my 1366 g1 guerrilla is taking a dump on me.. i kept getting random voltage bsod's and bios error messages for voltage.. i only had a mild overclock... i tested my cpu and then the psu(it's putting out great and stable) but mobo just isn't taking it ... the only other thing i can think of is the board going bad :/ frown.gif sad"
 
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His last activity here was 09-03-2013 @ 03:25 PM...so if you have no other way to contact him, a dispute may help.....although I'm not familiar with Amazon disputes, I assume they will try and contact him on your behalf and perhaps you can get an update that way
 
For Amazon the only protection you will have if you used a credit card to pay with. Other then that you are sol. Since they offer no protection to anyone selling outside of Amazon. Honestly not sure what you can do now but wait it out.
 
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people bitch about Paypal but this is probably one of the best reasons to use it as at least there's some sort of protection, with Amazon there is none at all.

Yes I know PP is far from perfect and you can get scammed there as well but at least they try to protect the seller and the buyer, with Amazon your money is just gone once you send it, no recourse, no dispute process sadly.
 
Sigh... how annoying. Didn't use credit card. Shoulda looked into it before I signed up there.
 
Many sellers shy away from paypal because of the fees and that they tend to side with the buyer in a dispute
 
It looks like he has a good history of selling and made a few more threads trying to do business so hopefully he really is just sick and forgetful but... I've never heard of shipping taking more than 7 business days so it seems likely he's lying about having sent it already :(
 
Sorry to hear that OP.


Can anyone explain why Amazon Payments is such a heavily preferred form of payment on Hardforum? It seems like it's a sure way to get scammed since, like someone said, there is no buyer protection at all. I do paypal only for this very reason, yet I have noticed an overwhelming preference for Amazon.
 
Hooy said:
Sorry to hear that OP.


Can anyone explain why Amazon Payments is such a heavily preferred form of payment on Hardforum? It seems like it's a sure way to get scammed since, like someone said, there is no buyer protection at all. I do paypal only for this very reason, yet I have noticed an overwhelming preference for Amazon.
Click to expand...

There are no fees, unlike Paypal. Amazon Payments if fine with me as long as I'm dealing with someone who has a good amount of heat. thorian88 only has 4 positive evaluations.
 
I 've have had 2 transactions with thorian88 and he is a really nice guy. I also spoke with him over the phone in one incident as well. Though both those transactions involve me selling him a harddrive and a Silverstone case.

The Silverstone case was damaged when sent to him and he was very patient with it. It took 3 weeks to get the claim through UPS and he never once was mad about the situation. I just gave him the claim money.

I have all his info saved on my Overclock.net account and the transactions were done there. He is a great guy, I am sure he will come through.
 
like i said before, "heat" means nothing. stick with people who have high ebay feedback.
 
I was trying to buy a waterblock from the dude, but haven't got a response. Maybe something bad happened. Sometimes, in rare cases, life gets in the way. I hope OP gets his mobo and that the seller just had some minor problems.

That being said, if he really was a scammer, he'd keep you stalled while continuing to sell other stuff to increase his profit.
 
wantapple said:
like i said before, "heat" means nothing. stick with people who have high ebay feedback.
Click to expand...


that's nothing more than your opinion.....although I prefer heat over eBay, without proper due diligence, both of them are useless....
 
Meaning amazon or a third party that sells on amazon's website. {Example} the item for sale is listed on amazon's webpage to purchase. Not someone on [H] that has nothing to do with Amazon. Had he listed the item through amazon for sale it would be different.

This is the bad thing about people wanting Amazon Payments. Most probably don't know there isn't protection doing this and perhaps some do. If it isn't a large amount then the seller should be glad to take Paypal. Everyone needs some protection buying used items off forums. Use a credit card payment if you pay with amazon Payments to be safe.

When Is a Buyer Covered Under the Amazon A-to-z Guarantee?

The buyer purchased physical goods from a seller or merchant selling on the Amazon.com website (including the Amazon.com Marketplace), or used Amazon Payments to purchase physical goods from a third party website. NOTE: The following items are not covered by the Amazon A-to-z Guarantee: payments for services, digital merchandise, cash equivalent instruments (including retail gift cards), and prohibited items (including items violating the Amazon Payments Acceptable Use Policy)
Click to expand...
 
cheenou77 said:
I 've have had 2 transactions with thorian88 and he is a really nice guy. I also spoke with him over the phone in one incident as well. Though both those transactions involve me selling him a harddrive and a Silverstone case.

The Silverstone case was damaged when sent to him and he was very patient with it. It took 3 weeks to get the claim through UPS and he never once was mad about the situation. I just gave him the claim money.

I have all his info saved on my Overclock.net account and the transactions were done there. He is a great guy, I am sure he will come through.
Click to expand...

That is reassuring. I left out the illness he mentioned for his sake, but it didn't sound good. Maybe he's just having complications. Doesn't excuse the fact that he claimed to have shipped it but... will hope for the best.
 
ksot said:
That is reassuring. I left out the illness he mentioned for his sake, but it didn't sound good. Maybe he's just having complications. Doesn't excuse the fact that he claimed to have shipped it but... will hope for the best.
Click to expand...

I hope the best for you too. Again, I have all the info in case something needs to get down to business. Don't be shy to shoot me a PM.
 
Good luck. I have also had a terrible trading experience with thorian88.

Thorian88 lied about shipping multiple times, took an extremely long time to deliver my trade, and then tried to scam me out of our trade. Communicating with them was an absolute nightmare.

One of many lies about shipping:
[thorian88]
I'm not sure why you haven't [received it] I sent it priority. With insurance.. if its not there by tomorrow I'll see why not.. I feel like a tardand threw away the receipt with tracking but I'm supposed to get an email confirmation
[/thorian88]
(Apparently, this idiot forgot the date it was shipped was printed on the package.)

A snippet of my response to him, after he tried scamming me:
[IRSmurf]
First off, I received your package. I didn't respond the first day because I had to thoroughly evaluate the processor. When the post office gave me the package, there was a rattle inside. The processor was loose, banging around the box. The processor even had body oil on the lid.
Photo: http://www.irsmurf.com/hardocp/trade-received.jpg

Second, the package wasn't even shipped until Monday. You deliberately mislead me to believe you shipped it earlier. You didn't ship the package until after you received mine. Unlike you, I had to wait an extra week without a computer, which I rely on to do my work. Your misinformation only compounded my daily frustration.
[/IRSmurf]

Thorian88 is a horrible trader, who should be banned from FS/FT.

Take a look at that picture, which shows how they packed my video card and CPU:
trade-received.jpg
 
IRSmurf said:
Good luck. I have also had a terrible trading experience with thorian88.

Thorian88 lied about shipping multiple times, took an extremely long time to deliver my trade, and then tried to scam me out of our trade. Communicating with them was an absolute nightmare.

One of many lies about shipping:
[thorian88]
I'm not sure why you haven't [received it] I sent it priority. With insurance.. if its not there by tomorrow I'll see why not.. I feel like a tardand threw away the receipt with tracking but I'm supposed to get an email confirmation
[/thorian88]
(Apparently, this idiot forgot the date it was shipped was printed on the package.)

A snippet of my response to him, after he tried scamming me:
[IRSmurf]
First off, I received your package. I didn't respond the first day because I had to thoroughly evaluate the processor. When the post office gave me the package, there was a rattle inside. The processor was loose, banging around the box. The processor even had body oil on the lid.
Photo: http://www.irsmurf.com/hardocp/trade-received.jpg

Second, the package wasn't even shipped until Monday. You deliberately mislead me to believe you shipped it earlier. You didn't ship the package until after you received mine. Unlike you, I had to wait an extra week without a computer, which I rely on to do my work. Your misinformation only compounded my daily frustration.
[/IRSmurf]

Thorian88 is a horrible trader, who should be banned from FS/FT.

Take a look at that picture, which shows how they packed my video card and CPU:
Click to expand...


Too bad you never left him Heat to reflect that.
 
KILLER_K said:
Meaning amazon or a third party that sells on amazon's website. {Example} the item for sale is listed on amazon's webpage to purchase. Not someone on [H] that has nothing to do with Amazon. Had he listed the item through amazon for sale it would be different.

This is the bad thing about people wanting Amazon Payments. Most probably don't know there isn't protection doing this and perhaps some do. If it isn't a large amount then the seller should be glad to take Paypal. Everyone needs some protection buying used items off forums. Use a credit card payment if you pay with amazon Payments to be safe.

When Is a Buyer Covered Under the Amazon A-to-z Guarantee?
Click to expand...


Not quite how works, but close.

AP used to offer protection for all transactions at the beginning, but stopped a few years ago.
 
This is why Amazon payments shouldn't be allowed here. It is protection for transactions used for amazon merchants or people listing items on Amazon. The 3rd party site is coverage under a site that is tied in with Amazon. It is when you see the "Pay with Amazon Payments" link by the item. Other then that as I've said a credit card payment will help you. But that has nothing to do with Amazon covering it is just how all credit card protection works.

Agreed heatware should have been left to let other people know. After all that is the sole purpose of using heatware to begin with.


adriantrances said:
Not quite how works, but close.

AP used to offer protection for all transactions at the beginning, but stopped a few years ago.
Click to expand...
 
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KILLER_K said:
This is why Amazon payments shouldn't be allowed here. It is protection for transactions used for amazon merchants or people listing items on Amazon. The 3rd party site is coverage under a site that is tied in with Amazon. It is when you see the "Pay with Amazon Payments" link by the item. Other then that as I've said a credit card payment will help you. But that has nothing to do with Amazon covering it is just how all credit card protection works.

Agreed heatware should have been left to let other people know. After all that is the sole purpose of using heatware to begin with.
Click to expand...

The payment type has no bearing on protecting yourself. Fraud was actually LESS likely before the ease and false security of paypal came around. People had to send USPS money orders or checks and you likely got a real name and/or address to go with that payment.

If people did their due diligence BEFORE a transaction, most of this would go away. People should be more careful instead of trying to shuffle the blame to a 3rd party such as Amazon or Paypal. I can't count how many times i've heard stories of people sending payments to people and not even once looking for that person's references or info. They just blindly send money to a random person and hope it turns out well. I ask for references up front, and if they can't back up their claims I ask for a phone number. If they decline either or both of those, I just skip the deal. Anyone that is even remotely worth a crap will have no problems putting an uncomfortable buyer at ease and handing over info to prove they are who they claim to be and not a scammer that intends on hiding after a deal.
 
Using Google people's information is always a smart thing to do. But also getting the person's cell phone number or house phone is a great thing. Then you can actually get to talk to the person and make sure everything is okay. I'm 100% different then you on payment type. I would rather get protection on my purchase when sending money to a individual. You can send a Amazon payments to someone and you are out of luck if the guy sends you nothing or a brick. Because you have zero protection. I would much rather use paypal and have a form of protection.

Paypal form of insurance is better then a nothing from Amazon. As right now most in here don't want to pay Paypal transactions fees and will only take Amazon payments. But no one is forcing you to buy the seller's items. But it would be nice to be allowed to have a choice with your money when buying something. But if you like using Amazon and having no protection then I'm happy for you. I simply like protection to go along with my purchase if something happens before it gets to me. I honestly like having peace at mind when I purchase a item in here.

Gillbot said:
The payment type has no bearing on protecting yourself. Fraud was actually LESS likely before the ease and false security of paypal came around. People had to send USPS money orders or checks and you likely got a real name and/or address to go with that payment.
Click to expand...
 
KILLER_K said:
Using Google people's information is always a smart thing to do. But also getting the person's cell phone number or house phone is a great thing. Then you can actually get to talk to the person and make sure everything is okay. I'm 100% different then you on payment type. I would rather get protection on my purchase when sending money to a individual. You can send a Amazon payments to someone and you are out of luck if the guy sends you nothing or a brick. Because you have zero protection. I would much rather use paypal and have a form of protection.

Paypal form of insurance is better then a nothing from Amazon. As right now most in here don't want to pay Paypal transactions fees and will only take Amazon payments. But no one is forcing you to buy the seller's items. But it would be nice to be allowed to have a choice with your money when buying something. But if you like using Amazon and having no protection then I'm happy for you. I simply like protection to go along with my purchase if something happens before it gets to me. I honestly like having peace at mind when I purchase a item in here.
Click to expand...

But my point is, even if they want an Amazon payment, without ZERO info from the person it doesn't matter.

I've pretty much stopped accepting paypal as a seller because the fraud isn't always on the selling side, it's on the buying side as well. I guess I'm a scammer and shouldn't be dealt with? (http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1712501&highlight=)

Personally, I'm flat tired of paypal always siding with the buyer regardless on how you try to protect yourself as a seller. I've sent out good parts and gotten a paypal claim filed for items non-working. Then I get something completely different sent back as a return and they win the claim PLUS get to keep whatever I sent. Screw that. I'll take Amazon or i'll gladly keep whatever i'm trying to sell. Might as well toss it in the trash rather than let someone scam me out of it anyway.
 
amazon has no protection for their buyers

sellers get no protection from paypal

so who wins?
 
Gillbot said:
But my point is, even if they want an Amazon payment, without ZERO info from the person it doesn't matter.

I've pretty much stopped accepting paypal as a seller because the fraud isn't always on the selling side, it's on the buying side as well. I guess I'm a scammer and shouldn't be dealt with? (http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1712501&highlight=)

Personally, I'm flat tired of paypal always siding with the buyer regardless on how you try to protect yourself as a seller. I've sent out good parts and gotten a paypal claim filed for items non-working. Then I get something completely different sent back as a return and they win the claim PLUS get to keep whatever I sent. Screw that. I'll take Amazon or i'll gladly keep whatever i'm trying to sell. Might as well toss it in the trash rather than let someone scam me out of it anyway.
Click to expand...

yea thats what i was getting at. Its like people forgot about the sellers
 
etegv said:
amazon has no protection for their buyers

sellers get no protection from paypal

so who wins?
Click to expand...

As a buyer, if you just blindly send a payment without checking into the seller it's on you.

As a seller, if you blindly sell to anyone without checking into the buyer, you open yourself up for issues.

The point overall is, EVERYONE should take their own responsibility on the transaction and STOP relying on the payment processor to do the work for them.
 
A payment method is agree'd upon the two doing the trade. Amazon never forced you to use there payment method, so can everyone just shut up about not allowing Amazon as a payment method, sheesh.

I found it rather ridiculous that you guys are blaming amazon payments for this case(what it seems like to me anyway.). There is always a risk when it comes to online trading on a forum, you put yourself out there on that risk when you buy something from someone you've never seen in your life before. Yet when something like this happens, the only person you can blame is yourself. Stop blaming everything else around you, seriously folks.
 
A15G said:
A payment method is agree'd upon the two doing the trade. Amazon never forced you to use there payment method, so can everyone just shut up about not allowing Amazon as a payment method, sheesh.

I found it rather ridiculous that you guys are blaming amazon payments for this case(what it seems like to me anyway.). There is always a risk when it comes to online trading on a forum, you put yourself out there on that risk when you buy something from someone you've never seen in your life before. Yet when something like this happens, the only person you can blame is yourself. Stop blaming everything else around you, seriously folks.
Click to expand...

Agreed! Back before there was Paypal and Amazon, people actually took the time to look into who they were buying from/selling to before a deal was made.
 
I have his name, mailing address, and phone number. I'll share it after I search all the forum rules. I don't want to banned for doxing someone.

edit: The forum rules say I can't post his personal information in the thread. Instead, I'll PM them to OP. If anyone else needs this information, just ask.

REMEMBER: This information was provided to me by thorian88, this April. I shipped him my motherboard and processor, which he claims to have received. (And then resold to the OP.) I cannot be certain this information is still accurate. So, if you live in his area, don't do anything illegal. I don't want to be an accomplice to your crime.
 
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Thanks for the information. Still no item so I plan on calling him tomorrow.

People are right saying this is my fault and I should have been more cautious/asked for references. The most I did was search his post history and saw what looked like a good trading history. I honestly didn't see this coming, but I will be more vigilant in the future... or just buy stuff new.
 
Hooy said:
Sorry to hear that OP.


Can anyone explain why Amazon Payments is such a heavily preferred form of payment on Hardforum? It seems like it's a sure way to get scammed since, like someone said, there is no buyer protection at all. I do paypal only for this very reason, yet I have noticed an overwhelming preference for Amazon.
Click to expand...

When Is a Buyer Covered Under the Amazon A-to-z Guarantee?

The buyer purchased physical goods from a seller or merchant selling on the Amazon.com website (including the Amazon.com Marketplace), or used Amazon Payments to purchase physical goods from a third party website. NOTE: The following items are not covered by the Amazon A-to-z Guarantee: payments for services, payments made via the Send Money or Request Money features (Person-to-Person or P2P payments), digital merchandise, cash equivalent instruments (including retail gift cards), and prohibited items (including items violating the Amazon Payments Acceptable Use Policy);

A transaction on this forum for all intents and purposes IS covered by amazon payments.
How do i know? Because I've had to file a dispute for a forum purchase with amazon payments and went through all the proper channels.

So then why is amazon payments preferred?????? Why the preference if its all the same.

1 BIG BIG reason. Sellers are sitting ducks out there. Quite honestly, as a buyer you could tell paypal "banana banana" and they will side with you as the buyer. Paypal in 99.9% of cases will side with the buyer even when you have frank evidence of fraud.

I sold an HP Envy 3D Laptop to a verified paypal address via Ebay for gods sakes. Guy scammed me and told paypal 30 days later his credit card was stolen over the weekend.... and it wasnt him who bought the laptop. Except the address it was sent to was his house under his name... and the signed for document also clearly had him sign for it.
Regardless of an overwhelming amount of evidence i was robbed and paypal not only told me tough luck but "limited" (read as banned) me for 6 months-ish.

As a buyer you have literally so much protection in place that you have no idea...
Amazon or Paypal not helping??? Its called a CHARGEBACK people and it works near 100% of the time.

Its us sellers who are scared crapless selling $1000+ items.

Heres the thing... Amazon payments actually takes real hard evidence into account. If you can back up your claims of being scammed as a seller they will not "auto-side" with the buyer as is the case with paypal.

Hooy... I sold you 4 780s... Do you know how scared I was making that kind of commitment on paypal for the first 2 i sold you....

Ive had people attempt to get free items by making bogus claims when I refused to pay their customs fees after repeatedly warning them their will be customs and I will not be responsible for it.. and 2/3 times they succeeded.

For someone who sells alot more than they buy. Amazon in significantly more secure because THEY LISTEN in case of a scam...

I've had my share of people also attempt to scam me on amazon payments as a seller and guess what they've never even once succeeded.

If you're a high value, consistently large quantity seller... paypal and even ebay are SCAREY... even getting scammed 1/20 really hurts. Especially when the item is an MSI GT70 Laptop Dragon Edition 2 (yes i almost got scammed out of a 2600 dollar laptop last week i was able to reverse UPS on time) the nooby scammer initiated his claim early.

TL; DR Sellers are always at risk. Buyers hardly ever have any actual risk.
Amazon Payments supervisors are actual human beings that take real evidence into account and will settle the case on the spot.
 
ksot said:
Thanks for the information. Still no item so I plan on calling him tomorrow.

People are right saying this is my fault and I should have been more cautious/asked for references. The most I did was search his post history and saw what looked like a good trading history. I honestly didn't see this coming, but I will be more vigilant in the future... or just buy stuff new.
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I never meant to insinuate that it was your fault. I was merely stating that people will now readily send money to a random email address without gathering pertinent info.
 
useyed1:
I sold an HP Envy 3D Laptop to a verified paypal address via Ebay for gods sakes. Guy scammed me and told paypal 30 days later his credit card was stolen over the weekend.... and it wasnt him who bought the laptop. Except the address it was sent to was his house under his name... and the signed for document also clearly had him sign for it.
Regardless of an overwhelming amount of evidence i was robbed and paypal not only told me tough luck but "limited" (read as banned) me for 6 months-ish.

I'm pretty sure that if it was sent by usps, ups or fed ex that they would have some type of fraud unit that handles that sort of problem. did u try any other recourse besides pp to get to money or laptop back?
 
buschman31 said:
useyed1:
I sold an HP Envy 3D Laptop to a verified paypal address via Ebay for gods sakes. Guy scammed me and told paypal 30 days later his credit card was stolen over the weekend.... and it wasnt him who bought the laptop. Except the address it was sent to was his house under his name... and the signed for document also clearly had him sign for it.
Regardless of an overwhelming amount of evidence i was robbed and paypal not only told me tough luck but "limited" (read as banned) me for 6 months-ish.

I'm pretty sure that if it was sent by usps, ups or fed ex that they would have some type of fraud unit that handles that sort of problem. did u try any other recourse besides pp to get to money or laptop back?
Click to expand...
If you ship to the confirmed address you're fine. The transaction will need to have seller protection as eligible, for ebay transactions I don't believe the address needs to be fully verified but it will still show as eligible for protection from this sort of thing.
 
IRSmurf said:
I have his name, mailing address, and phone number. I'll share it after I search all the forum rules. I don't want to banned for doxing someone.

edit: The forum rules say I can't post his personal information in the thread. Instead, I'll PM them to OP. If anyone else needs this information, just ask.

REMEMBER: This information was provided to me by thorian88, this April. I shipped him my motherboard and processor, which he claims to have received. (And then resold to the OP.) I cannot be certain this information is still accurate. So, if you live in his area, don't do anything illegal. I don't want to be an accomplice to your crime.
Click to expand...

I was the other party to this trade deal, that took WEEKS to sort out

it looks like I failed to leave heat in the end

he did ask for it, after I had finally received the mobo, that was in the retail box it came in.....wrapped in bubble wrap and nothing else

it did end up working fine though
 
Lets try and keep this on the topic of Thorain88 and those involved in the deal(s), and not on the merits of using Amazon Payments as a payment option
 
Called him several times and left my number as a callback. Got a missed callback from him the one time I stepped away from my phone for 20 minutes on the first night and he hasn't called back since. Guess I know he isn't dead now and is probably avoiding me on purpose now that he knows who is calling him.
 
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