Start Is Back, Win8 = great now

[Eagle923]

I've been using Win8 on my desktop for the past 8 months or so with the RC versions and the past two months from a clean install "upgrade". I still couldn't get used to the lack of a start menu and things. I tried hard, I really did.

Now with a $3 program, all is right with the world again and I get the improvements from Win8 that I wanted.

If you've hesitated on Win8, Start Is Back really fixed it!

 

[OldMX]

You didnt try hard enough.

 

[Raxiel]

I've been using Win8 on my desktop for the past 8 months or so with the RC versions and the past two months from a clean install "upgrade". I still couldn't get used to the lack of a start menu and things. I tried hard, I really did.

Now with a $3 program, all is right with the world again and I get the improvements from Win8 that I wanted.

If you've hesitated on Win8, Start Is Back really fixed it!

I agree, most of the 'h8' so to speak, is aimed at the start screen, but there's more to the OS than that. Currently running start is back on trial, although I'm wondering how the free classic shell compares.

(If the start screen search didn't only show apps by default, and offered the same options as the desktop context menu when right clicking on icons, I might have tried to live with it.)

Edit: Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that 8 is great, but it's ok at least and certainly not bad. I do wish Microsoft weren't quite so insistent on me looking at their picture of Seattle though.

 

[Eagle923]

You didnt try hard enough.

I did

With SiB, you get the best of both now. You can still use the new interface for things and have it setup to boot to desktop or just add in the start button. I highly enjoy Win8 now.

I still miss the Aero look, but I do love that the window borders change colors as your picture changes.

 

[Eagle923]

Currently running start is back on trial, although I'm wondering how the free classic shell compares.

I tried Classic Shell as well for a month or two. I prefer SiB as it integrates so well with booting straight to desktop...etc. Both are good and the price is great on both (free or $3...).

 

[Monkey God]

Missing start button isn't all that people dont like about Win8, FYI

 

[Raxiel]

Missing start button isn't all that people dont like about Win8, FYI

Of course. There are plenty of legitimate issues that some have with the OS (the 'thin end of the walled garden wedge' MS seem to be craving with the store for one). But the loudest, most vocal complaints certainly seem to be focused on the start screen/modern UI.

(Although that might just be confirmation bias on my part since that was the biggest issue for me personaly.)

I tried Classic Shell as well for a month or two. I prefer SiB as it integrates so well with booting straight to desktop...etc. Both are good and the price is great on both (free or $3...).

I actualy caved in last night and bought upgrades for my Laptop and my wife's PC while they're still discounted, so it'd be $5 for the '5 user licence' for me.

 

[raminux]

I see it this way: metro is the new start menu. The main difference perhaps is that it is now full screen while in the past the start menu was covering only the lower left corner of the screen.

For me, the new start menu works way better than the old one. I never actually liked the old one. It was overall a slow and tedious process to utilize it using a mouse (unless one used keyboard shortcuts but then, keyboard shortcut are available in metro too). I think this was the case for most people and that explains why almost everybody had shortcuts buttons on their desktop.

The metro menu is indeed usable just by itself (that is even without using keyboard shortcuts). It is not perfect and there are certainly things that need modified or improved. However, it can be tuned to one's need. I removed most default Windows tiles and in the main page, I have tiles only for application I use most often. Having a full screen start menu is a breeze freeing me from having to do multiple clicks in a tiny windows along microscopic menu list of programs to reach the application I want to start.

 

[bigdogchris]

I did

With SiB, you get the best of both now. You can still use the new interface for things and have it setup to boot to desktop or just add in the start button. I highly enjoy Win8 now.

I still miss the Aero look, but I do love that the window borders change colors as your picture changes.

I once juxtaposed the Start Screen to a background full of icons (like what you dread to see when you're working on someone's PC). They actually looked rather similar. I find it funny how there was a total 180 on this type of thing.

When someone says that you don't like something because you don't know how to use it, I find that rather arrogant and ignorant. If what they say is the truth, then everyone should like everything.

 

[hdgamer]

Classic Start8 and Skip Metro suite are free and do pretty much the same thing. Only thing is you can't customize like you do in SIB.

 

[pxc]

Missing start button isn't all that people dont like about Win8, FYI

You mean I shouldn't be happy with stupid simple Metro accessories/games that run full screen on my 26" 1920x1200 LCD, even though the same functionality ran in an appropriately sized/sizeable window, where I could do other things on the screen at the same time, in previous Windows versions? I'll have to look at that again. I can't imagine anyone at MS making that dumb of a decision.

 

[Tsumi]

You mean I shouldn't be happy with stupid simple Metro accessories/games that run full screen on my 26" 1920x1200 LCD, even though the same functionality ran in an appropriately sized/sizeable window, where I could do other things on the screen at the same time, in previous Windows versions? I'll have to look at that again. I can't imagine anyone at MS making that dumb of a decision.

Why do you act like Metro accessories are the only ones you can use instead of the ones you've always used?

 

[Acoustique]

actually dont mind it, everything i need and nothing i don't is all there on the windows key and my desktop never contains shortcuts and junk anymore, just a couple of text files and a folder.

 

[heatlesssun]

Why do you act like Metro accessories are the only ones you can use instead of the ones you've always used?

Not only that I think the notion that if it doesn't run in a window then it's of no use on the desktop doesn't mesh with how applications are typically run. I'd say the tendency is to run many applications full screen like web browsers, games, video, eBooks, etc. If one needs to run these things in a window there's always a desktop app for that. The bottom line is that if Windows were ever going to become capable on a tablet, it needed something besides a windowed desktop to get there. I understand a lot of people think that desktops and tablets are fundamentally different and can't work when combined into a single OS but that is possible with Windows 8 if you can become comfortable with the UI.

I don't think any Windows 7 users are doing anything fundamentally different on the desktop than Windows 8 users but they certainly don't have anything that works nearly as well on touch devices as Windows 8 Modern apps.

 

[pxc]

Why do you act like Metro accessories are the only ones you can use instead of the ones you've always used?

Because I tried harder.

The tablet/desktop OS mashup is a mess. It would have been something if MS actually conquered the problem, but it didn't.

 

[limitedaccess]

I actually didn't really have an issues with Win 8 during the consumer preview but after finally trying RTM I just do not like the aesthetic changes more than anything as features/customization were removed from CP.

 

[FrEaKy]

I like Windows 8, I wont use it myself right now, but it aint bad, and if you have a touchscreen machine (quite a few of my clients do) than Windows 8 is quite fun to use.

I do have a copy of Win 8 Pro I will give a try and see how it runs! SiB sounds like its worth trying out.

 

[dnottis]

start8 makes Windows 8 usable. MS really fucked up with the aol-ish interface.

 

[dr.stevil]

I know 3rd party hacks exist to get the start menu back (and even get rid of ribbon, which is really nice), but I'd honestly rather not give MS my money until I know they plan on giving users a choice in a service pack or future releases of windows. In the mean time... Windows 7 still works great

 

[odditory]

I like Windows 8, I wont use it myself right now, but it aint bad, and if you have a touchscreen machine (quite a few of my clients do) than Windows 8 is quite fun to use.

Great gimmick, makes for great demo but to actually get anything done you quickly realize that you have exponentially more bandwidth in your fingers and wrists working keyboard & mouse than moving your arm up and down touching tiles and sweeping back and forth across the screen. This is especially true for any vertically oriented touchscreen - meaning a laptop or desk mounted monitor - work the screen for a length of time and eventually your arm wants to fall off. The ergonomics are absurd.

For most people buying into the touch marketing blitz by accident or by choice, a vertical touchscreen will follow the same fate as the 3DTV they bought during last year's marketing storm -- use it a couple times and then never again.

 

[Tsumi]

Great gimmick, makes for great demo but to actually get anything done you quickly realize that you have exponentially more bandwidth in your fingers and wrists working keyboard & mouse than moving your arm up and down touching tiles and sweeping back and forth across the screen. This is especially true for any vertically oriented touchscreen - meaning a laptop or desk mounted monitor - work the screen for a length of time and eventually your arm wants to fall off. The ergonomics are absurd.

For most people buying into the touch marketing blitz by accident or by choice, a vertical touchscreen will follow the same fate as the 3DTV they bought during last year's marketing storm -- use it a couple times and then never again.

The focus of Windows 8 is not about ergonomics and usability for keyboard and mouse users.

The focus is for Windows 8 to get into the rapidly expanding tablet market, which is a touch-centered market, and something Microsoft has been losing sales to.

 

[raminux]

start8 makes Windows 8 usable. MS really fucked up with the aol-ish interface.

Windows 8 is nicely usable without that funny button to which some people are so emotionally attached. They seem having difficulty accepting things that are just slightly different from what they are used to. Nobody would benefit from sticking to that funny impractical old button at the lower left corner. Besides, the new interface will soon or late prevail anyway for both mouse/keyboard interface or, touchscreen no matter what.

I now have Windows 8 in both my desktop and laptop and none of them have touchscreen. Most of the time, I don't even need to use keyboard shortcuts to lunch applications since the metro UI is just as fast.

 

[Flogger23m]

I wish it was free. I am using Classic Shell and having the start menu back is very helpful, though I would prefer if the rest of the UI got drop down menus and aero. Would also be nice to disable charms ect. Swapping between Metro (no minimizing, full screen only ect.) and desktop mode was very annoying.

Sadly, this won't fix the fact that an email is tied to the OS, the fact that Live Messenger/Skype will get the Metro makeover, the updating freezes and some of the other quirks with Win 8. But it sure makes it much better.

 

[heatlesssun]

Sadly, this won't fix the fact that an email is tied to the OS, the fact that Live Messenger/Skype will get the Metro makeover, the updating freezes and some of the other quirks with Win 8. But it sure makes it much better.

Email tied to the OS? You can use the same email clients that you've used in prior versions of Windows. There is a Metro version of Skype. There's also a Windows desktop version if you prefer.

For whatever reason, people seem to think that the same desktop applications that we've always used in Windows don't work with Windows 8.

 

[Flogger23m]

Email tied to the OS? You can use the same email clients that you've used in prior versions of Windows. There is a Metro version of Skype. There's also a Windows desktop version if you prefer.

For whatever reason, people seem to think that the same desktop applications that we've always used in Windows don't work with Windows 8.

I don't recall tying any email to XP/Vista/Win 7. The fact that it shows you new emails at the start screen (which we can unpin, not sure about uninstalling) is also very annoying. Part of the reasons passwords exist is so that others don't see your messages, or see when you get new messages, ect.

As for Skype, it is my understanding it will get a Metro type UI even in desktop mode during the next update. I currently use Skype for desktop (though it has minimizing problems in the task bar) and aside from the one issue I just mentioned it currently works the same as it does on Win 7.

I also don't see the point of a huge clock popping up covering 15-20% of the screen every time my cursor moves to the left of the screen. Annoying, blocks what you're looking at, ect. I much prefer using the clock in the task bar.

The more I use Win 8, the more I miss the simplicity of Win 7's UI. Though some of the other nice additions are welcome.

 

[RamonGTP]

The focus of Windows 8 is not about ergonomics and usability for keyboard and mouse users.

The focus is for Windows 8 to get into the rapidly expanding tablet market, which is a touch-centered market, and something Microsoft has been losing sales to.

Pretty sure that was his point Captain Obvious. That's why it sucks for desktop/laptop use or for devices that are trying to be touch devices but are ergonomicly inefficient as touch devices.

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't recall tying any email to XP/Vista/Win 7. The fact that it shows you new emails at the start screen (which we can unpin, not sure about uninstalling) is also very annoying. Part of the reasons passwords exist is so that others don't see your messages, or see when you get new messages, ect.

Not really sure what your point is here. You have to login to Windows before you'd get notifications in the Windows Metro email client. ? If one were running Outlook it wouldn't be much different as once you login to Windows and have Outlook setup you don't have to login to your email servers again. And yes you can uninstall the Metro email client if you wish.

As for Skype, it is my understanding it will get a Metro type UI even in desktop mode during the next update. I currently use Skype for desktop (though it has minimizing problems in the task bar) and aside from the one issue I just mentioned it currently works the same as it does on Win 7.

I've not heard anything about, perhaps you're correct but I don't know how Skype would get a Metro UI in versions of Windows prior to 8.

I also don't see the point of a huge clock popping up covering 15-20% of the screen every time my cursor moves to the left of the screen. Annoying, blocks what you're looking at, ect. I much prefer using the clock in the task bar.

The clock that pops up from a hot corner or edge swipe comes no where near using 15 to 20 percent of the screen.

The more I use Win 8, the more I miss the simplicity of Win 7's UI. Though some of the other nice additions are welcome.

As much as many want to call Windows 8 a dumbed down Fisher-Price UI, it is actually is pretty complex overall. So on this point I do understand where you're coming from but I use Windows 8 on tablets and thus overall for me and the way I use Windows it's much easier and simpler than Windows 7.

 

[Tsumi]

Pretty sure that was his point Captain Obvious. That's why it sucks for desktop/laptop use or for devices that are trying to be touch devices but are ergonomicly inefficient as touch devices.

Then why bother complaining about something that was obvious? Instead, complain about the lack of native choice instead of the new UI.

I don't recall tying any email to XP/Vista/Win 7. The fact that it shows you new emails at the start screen (which we can unpin, not sure about uninstalling) is also very annoying. Part of the reasons passwords exist is so that others don't see your messages, or see when you get new messages, ect.

As for Skype, it is my understanding it will get a Metro type UI even in desktop mode during the next update. I currently use Skype for desktop (though it has minimizing problems in the task bar) and aside from the one issue I just mentioned it currently works the same as it does on Win 7.

I also don't see the point of a huge clock popping up covering 15-20% of the screen every time my cursor moves to the left of the screen. Annoying, blocks what you're looking at, ect. I much prefer using the clock in the task bar.

The more I use Win 8, the more I miss the simplicity of Win 7's UI. Though some of the other nice additions are welcome.

Every metro app can be uninstalled besides the store I believe. This includes mail, weather, everything.

Skype already went the flat buttons. Not sure how they can make it more metro-like besides making everything a square or rectangle.

You're over-exaggerating how much it blocks, and click outside of it and it will disappear almost instantly. And it only appears if you manage to hit a corner, not just any left side or right side.

 

[Hagrid]

Another win 8 thread!

I wish MS would just split the OS's or have a desktop/laptop OS and tablet OS install.
It would just makes things much easier..... Give the people a choice!!

I personally dont have a desktop/laptop touch screen and dont want one.

I run classic shell and havnt had too many problems, just wish it would totally get rid of metro.(some things pop up in it still?, its annoying)

 

[raminux]

Another win 8 thread!

I wish MS would just split the OS's or have a desktop/laptop OS and tablet OS install.
It would just makes things much easier..... Give the people a choice!!

I personally dont have a desktop/laptop touch screen and dont want one.

I run classic shell and havnt had too many problems, just wish it would totally get rid of metro.(some things pop up in it still?, its annoying)

OS design has never been about a choice. You were never given a choice before so this is a new demand.

MS, Apple, etc. never asked people before what they wanted and even if they asked, they could have not come to one solution for all. Some want start button; some don't; some want this; some want that.... Practically, it's impossible to accommodate everybody's request.

Sorry to hear you feel bad about the new look but it is not MS's fault. If you don't like a product a company produces, you have the option not to buy it; this is your choice.

 

[Computer Ed]

Windows 8 gets a lot of bad press but I find it funny when people start complain that the interface is not their gripe, yes it is 99% of the time. The CORE of Windows 8 is a streamlined and optimized Windows 7. The metro interface is then tacked on to this core.

True the interface is designed for use on touch enabled devices but it is far from BAD on a keyboard and mouse. Plus as has been pointed out here, there are a number of interface programs that put the old Start Menu system back into place.

I personally do have some complaints about Metro but it is mostly due to Microsoft trying to integrate and segregate at the same time. When you use a Metro app from the Metro screen and close the app you are taken back to the Metro screen. When you run a desktop app, even in full screen, you are taken to the desktop, the app is launched and then when you close the app your are dropped to the desktop. This is a cludgy solution that could have been easily fixed before the OS was shipped.

When the app opens there is no reason for you to see the Desktop screen UNLESS the app is opening in a size smaller than full screen mode. When you exit the app the OS should know if you launched from metro and should be able to put you back to metro without dropping you into the desktop. This simple little fix would clean up the way Metro feels on a full PC a great deal.

As for the actual Windows 8 Apps, please for the love of god can we fix these? The mail app is a steaming pile of shit and everyone knows it. The news app is okay but needs the ability to customize and please MS add printing options. The music app is usable but lets face it, it exists purely for use as a store front. The picture viewer, well the designer of that app needs to be kicked in the nuts a few times and then fired!

Microsoft already had solid software for use with these functions. Live Mail was not perfect but compared to the new app it was amazing. Live Photo Gallery is way ahead of the crap that Windows 8 gave us, mean so far ahead it is NUTS! Live Writer gave us a great blogging tool, I still use it today. Microsoft should have had their app team work with these programs and make them work in the metro environment instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. They have great apps and giving us useless pieces of crap in place of them is just stupid.

I could go on and start in Explorer 10 metro but I will let that go there because I think you see my point. BTW of note here, all of these are easily fixable issues by the user, not a reflection of the way the OS works.

Windows 8 a solid OS release that needs some work, but the outright hate for it is either misplaced or a sign of true ignorance.

 

[Hagrid]

OS design has never been about a choice. You were never given a choice before so this is a new demand.

MS, Apple, etc. never asked people before what they wanted and even if they asked, they could have not come to one solution for all. Some want start button; some don't; some want this; some want that.... Practically, it's impossible to accommodate everybody's request.

Sorry to hear you feel bad about the new look but it is not MS's fault. If you don't like a product a company produces, you have the option not to buy it; this is your choice.

New look? No, its not a look, its a tablet OS on a desktop. You do know what a tablet is right?

I know its not MS's fault for not giving people the option. Its the dam users being jerks for wanting options.....

Its not all about the start button, but the whole package. Which 3rd party software really helps it shine.

I wonder out of the win 8 sales, how many use 3rd party software? 1/4, 1/2, 3/4? I would love to see a figure.

 

[Hagrid]

Windows 8 gets a lot of bad press but I find it funny when people start complain that the interface is not their gripe, yes it is 99% of the time. The CORE of Windows 8 is a streamlined and optimized Windows 7. The metro interface is then tacked on to this core.

True the interface is designed for use on touch enabled devices but it is far from BAD on a keyboard and mouse. Plus as has been pointed out here, there are a number of interface programs that put the old Start Menu system back into place.

I personally do have some complaints about Metro but it is mostly due to Microsoft trying to integrate and segregate at the same time. When you use a Metro app from the Metro screen and close the app you are taken back to the Metro screen. When you run a desktop app, even in full screen, you are taken to the desktop, the app is launched and then when you close the app your are dropped to the desktop. This is a cludgy solution that could have been easily fixed before the OS was shipped.

When the app opens there is no reason for you to see the Desktop screen UNLESS the app is opening in a size smaller than full screen mode. When you exit the app the OS should know if you launched from metro and should be able to put you back to metro without dropping you into the desktop. This simple little fix would clean up the way Metro feels on a full PC a great deal.

As for the actual Windows 8 Apps, please for the love of god can we fix these? The mail app is a steaming pile of shit and everyone knows it. The news app is okay but needs the ability to customize and please MS add printing options. The music app is usable but lets face it, it exists purely for use as a store front. The picture viewer, well the designer of that app needs to be kicked in the nuts a few times and then fired!

Microsoft already had solid software for use with these functions. Live Mail was not perfect but compared to the new app it was amazing. Live Photo Gallery is way ahead of the crap that Windows 8 gave us, mean so far ahead it is NUTS! Live Writer gave us a great blogging tool, I still use it today. Microsoft should have had their app team work with these programs and make them work in the metro environment instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. They have great apps and giving us useless pieces of crap in place of them is just stupid.

I could go on and start in Explorer 10 metro but I will let that go there because I think you see my point. BTW of note here, all of these are easily fixable issues by the user, not a reflection of the way the OS works.

Windows 8 a solid OS release that needs some work, but the outright hate for it is either misplaced or a sign of true ignorance.

Yeah, thats the thing is the GUI is what are turning people off from it.(most/alot?) It does have good features and people who dont like the interface should try the 3rd party stuff, it does help alot.

 

[blade52x]

My main issue with Windows 8 is the Metro search. I can't stand it. It's so clunky, spread apart, and breaks things up into categories that I need to individually look through. Windows 7 was so simple with the search integrated into the start menu. It takes me so much longer to find things on Windows 8 than it does on Windows 7. It's like 3-5 seconds on Windows 7 (mostly from the computer just looking up what I input), versus 10-20 on seconds and maybe even more sometimes on Windows 8. It's really frustrating. It's like trying to use a mechanical hard drive as your main boot drive after having used a SSD for a long time.

 

[valve1138]

Pretty sure that was his point Captain Obvious. That's why it sucks for desktop/laptop use or for devices that are trying to be touch devices but are ergonomicly inefficient as touch devices.

TSRH. They should have left Aero as a fully usable option. Why they didn't is the equivalent of going full retard.

 

[yossarian]

When the press about a company's product is all about defending design decisions rather than basking in the glory of customers loving the decisions made, I think you've lost the battle. At the root, it's MS forcing ways to do things based on the touch environment that are inconvenient for non-touch environments. Sure, you can resort to third-party utilities to make them work the way you want, but with as little difficulty it took thrid-party vendors to produce what many customers want, why didn't MS provide the option in the beginning? Why have a dumbed-down desktop graphic presentation for desktop users just because tablets are graphics and power challenged? Win 7 lets users select Aero or Basic, but Win 8 is just Basic. It looks and feels like a step backward and it's hard to believe it couldn't have been easily included.

If MS would have simply provided an option for a start button and booting to desktop, and provided an Aero-type option, the majority of the complaints would never have developed. Sure, it was important for Win 8 to support touch, but it was uneccesary to intentionally diminish the usability of the largest Windows market segment, non-touch desktop and laptops.

 

[Computer Ed]

My main issue with Windows 8 is the Metro search. I can't stand it. It's so clunky, spread apart, and breaks things up into categories that I need to individually look through. Windows 7 was so simple with the search integrated into the start menu. It takes me so much longer to find things on Windows 8 than it does on Windows 7. It's like 3-5 seconds on Windows 7 (mostly from the computer just looking up what I input), versus 10-20 on seconds and maybe even more sometimes on Windows 8. It's really frustrating. It's like trying to use a mechanical hard drive as your main boot drive after having used a SSD for a long time.

Seriously? I find the search just as fast as the search in 7 and even better I do not have to hit the start menu to use it. I just start typing at the Start screen and my results pop up.

 

[Eagle923]

WOW! My intention with this thread was to give kudos to a small developer for a program that really helped me enjoy Windows 8... not to bitch about Win8! The details of Win8 have been beaten to death in other threads.

 

[blade52x]

Seriously? I find the search just as fast as the search in 7 and even better I do not have to hit the start menu to use it. I just start typing at the Start screen and my results pop up.

Seriously, considering the results are categorized way in the upper right (unnecessary) and then once you've selected the proper category, back over to the in the upper left. So you're going... lower left corner -> upper right corner -> browse 2-3 categories until you find proper one -> upper left corner. All in all, it sucks hard on a 1440p monitor. But I didn't like it on 1080p either.

So I'm baffled as how you can prefer having to go into the start screen to perform the search as opposed to just staying on the desktop and utilizing a small and simple search bar. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I was one of the few that preferred Vista over Windows XP, mainly because of that simple search bar.

 

[Hagrid]

WOW! My intention with this thread was to give kudos to a small developer for a program that really helped me enjoy Windows 8... not to bitch about Win8! The details of Win8 have been beaten to death in other threads.

Because some people think that since they like metro, that all should.

I havnt tried start is back(used classic shell) and it does make it alot better.