Phantasy Star Online was released 10 years ago...
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Star Wars: TOR... Lowering My Expectations Yet Again...
- Thread starter mdk30
- Start date
Phantasy Star Online was released 10 years ago...
I'm cool with that. I just don't want to pay a subscription.
Same goes for you, me, and a whole lot of other people.
I think it's just Bioware trying to get on the cash bandwagon and see if the MMO cash cow works for 'em or not.
Maybe it'll be good. Maybe it'll be the first MMO I cave in to. I thought Star Trek would be but that thing is terrible so good luck to Bioware.
And yes, Phantasy Star Online was indeed 10 years ago. Excellent point.
I never said I wanted to solo EVERYTHING.
You know what game made grouping FUN and not a "requirment everytime you want to do higher lv quests/explore?"
UO.
No lv's, no healers/tanks, but guess what? Plenty o fpeople grouped up and had a lot of fun playing togeother, you simply weren't required to be tied to specific classes/types and things weren't bult around having healer/tank/dps to do it, rather just one-two+ people and more.
It's not about soloing, it's about bieng able to play when you want with who you want and not having a "perfect" group setup to do many things.
For a game that's 6months+ off, still in closed beta, and hardly much info on anything over lvl 10, you guys are really bashing it hard aren't you. I personally would much rather have an entire new game than an expac(WoW cataclysm) that basically is just redoing the exact same shit they had before except different colors and new professions. I'm sure after about a month, the game will end up being as always a camp fest in org or dalaran.
Parmenides
Supreme [H]ardness
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I'll never ever play an MMO that practically requires grouping.
UO was a lot of fun for a while.
UO was a lot of fun for a while.
RM_Bulldog
Gawd
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ill never play a MMO where you can complete the whole game while never grouping
MMO stand for Massive MULTIPLAYER
MMO stand for Massive MULTIPLAYER
Parmenides
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Then you're a true MMO player. I just want KOTOR3, and I guess this might work for a compromise... maybe. I have a feeling a lot of hardcore MMO players won't like what is being done in TOR though. But that remains to be seen.
This is all I wanted and still want.
A lot of people wanted and still want KOTOR 3. But any game that forces you to group, is not going to make it. That was one of the big downfalls of DDO. You could not do anything as a single player in the game.
WoW and WAR and AOC all had stuff you could do solo. Not necessarily all the quests, but you could gather, craft, and do at least some of the quests. Face it, sometimes even in an MMO, you'd rather just be alone. Or at least not be beholden to anybody else in the same area.
Forced to group? Not even EVE does that. If you have the skills you can survive in 00 just the same as any Alliance.
The TOR bashing is just getting silly. I see almost nothing that constitutes as misleading. Also if you play any beta or first few weeks and expect to be blown away. Then frankly you dont know MMOs.
Star Trek online's launch was ok but had almost no Klingon content and was a meh experience overall. However within a few months massive amounts of content were added with more on the way.
The TOR bashing is just getting silly. I see almost nothing that constitutes as misleading. Also if you play any beta or first few weeks and expect to be blown away. Then frankly you dont know MMOs.
Star Trek online's launch was ok but had almost no Klingon content and was a meh experience overall. However within a few months massive amounts of content were added with more on the way.
How's the gameplay on it these days? That's what killed it for me.
Why do people think this? It's ABSURD.
The point of an MMO is having world filled with thousands of REAL people playing, it has NOTHING to do with grouping or not grouping.
How in the world does it AFFECT you if someone doesn't want to spend all his time forced to group to do shit? it doesn't.
You want to group? fine, do it, no one stops you, but to force people to do it is a terrible design choice imo.
Grouping should be about people wanting to play together and having some fun doing things as a group, it shouldn't be a requirment to group with xyz class to do the majority of things in ithe higher end of a game.
Either choice should be completely viable, and both can co-exist just fine like it did in UO.
Right on. I like to be able to do both, but not forced into either. On the other hand, I think it's unrealistic to expect to be able to do absolutely everything solo.
Look at wow, solo able and filled with kids and bad attitude in chat.
any other game to easy and soloable, allows bad manner, asocial behaviour, and frankly grouping when the game requries it due to being hard, allows such behaviour to be sorted out and those dont get a group.
every game I played the last 10 years in the mmo have been to easy.
content dosnt matter.
I miss the day of everquest before expansions.
If a gamedevloper made a game that is though, people will group and it be a lot more fun than current failures in the market.
any other game to easy and soloable, allows bad manner, asocial behaviour, and frankly grouping when the game requries it due to being hard, allows such behaviour to be sorted out and those dont get a group.
every game I played the last 10 years in the mmo have been to easy.
content dosnt matter.
I miss the day of everquest before expansions.
If a gamedevloper made a game that is though, people will group and it be a lot more fun than current failures in the market.
I am not sure how forcing people to group in wow will stop kids with bad attitudes in chat. Easiest way to stop bad attitudes in wow is to add them to your ignore list and it's like they magically don't exist anymore, if they go so far as to force their presence on you..then it's a matter of harassment to report to the GMs. Grouping has nothing to do with this, the guy could still be an A-hole and grouped with you. I mean forcing people to group, why even give them options to pick whose in the group?
There were PLENTY of people in Everquest with bad attitudes, in fact there were guilds on my server (Tarew Marr) who made it a habit of griefing entire zones of players. Because they were essentially one big group, it as impossible to do anything to stop it. I remember one day they were going into Unrest dragging out the entire basement and training it to the zone line with no warning. And it never failed the hags would charm and drag in 2-3 people to die in the basement. Then they would offer their "services" to go into the basement and get your body, except they would steal your items and train out another group of basement dwellers to repeat the process.
Another guild had members who would go anonymous and hide their guild tag, but would live in Cazic thule (primarily wizards) who would steal the kills from groups of people there trying to get Rubicite. Since back then DPS was not cumulative to the group but loot was assigned to the player with the highest DPS and then split if they were in a team. Because of this a solo player could take the kill from an entire group because that's how retarded it was setup. And there was no first hit, own the kill until you die rules either. So groups could out DPS each other and take peoples kills even though they may have waited 3 hours for it.
If grouping in EQ actually discouraged this behavior, those same people would not have been playing that game 2 years later. I remembered what they did, maybe a handful of others..but most people just completely forgot.
Properly designed game mechanics, rules that are punished by GMs when broken, and the ability to ignore these people when possible are what made these games possible to play in spite of their bad attitudes. Grouping just made it easier for the jerkoffs to form little teams of similarly minded jerkoffs to grief the rest of the server population. In fact the more people there were in a zone, the more likely these people would show up..because hey there's gotta be some reason all these people are here....right?
I just wish MMOs when you stuck someone on ignore would erase their presence completely....like their character model is not represented in your virtual world any longer. You don't see auctions from them, you don't see anything belonging to them that may be in the world.......you have no interaction with them at all. That way you don't accidentally do something to help them, and they can't continue to attempt to harass you via other means....which if you call them on their BS...you know they will. It's part of their DNA make up to be jerkoffs and force it on others. It should also apply to all their alts, if I add one of your characters I get them all as a bonus. I don't need to know their names, I just need to know I am not doing anything to help you whether it be buying from your alt or giving you a teleport to another zone. It will also stop people from making large character models.....like the ogre in Everquest and blocking doorways to banks, city zone lines, or the entrance to Guk. People used to love to block the tunnels in guk, it was useful when people were training a lot to block it so they'd actually eat their own train...but yeah... grouping had no dampening impact whatsoever on their bad attitudes and bad behaviors it may have even allowed them to be bigger PITAs for others. To this I think WoW may have actually taken this information from EQ and designed their game so people were not locked into having to associate with undesirables to progress, so I think your grouping argument fails in this regard.
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My only main concern at this point in time is how they are going to blend 4 different storylines in together so that people can group whenever they want. If a BH wants to group with a SW, how are they going to do quest? Do you just tag along on eachothers quest everytime, do an entirely different set of quest off your main line of quest , or what?
MassConfusion
Limp Gawd
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Who says I am joking? The Star Wars universe has much, MUCH more depth than WoW and from what I have seen of Guild Wars, just another WoW cop-out. SWTOR has the potential to absolutely crush WoW. Its going to have supieror cinematics, more in depth character customization, and a massive wealth of lore to draw from to make this story ever more interesting.
This game has incredible potential and the way Bioware balanced the characters, its not just going to be jedi vs. sith. Considering stunning a jedi with taser and then running off to fire a rocket or a headshot or even a flamethower! This game is going to be well-balanced and fun!
LoL, wow.. Still cant tell if he's joking or not. Surely that comment about Guild Wars being a WoW clone was a joke.
tronmaster
Limp Gawd
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Ugh, I really think voice over "talking" NPCs are going to be overrated. Why? I got tired of hearing the same thing when you went up to a NPC in Dragon Age. People read faster than listening, especially if they have to tell you a story...It might be fine the first few levels listening to someone but eventually you are going to just want the damn quest.
I think I saw one of those making of they got like either 700 pages worth of dialog or 700 hours of voice over, can you believe that? That is one of the things I like about WoW, the NPC just has one line voice over the rest is in text, and they made it instant, before you had to actually wait for the text quest! Of course I might be the only one with this problem.
krameriffic
2[H]4U
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Stop the WoW death predictions. It's predicted twice a year that a new MMO is going to crush WoW and every single one has been terrible.
Ugh, I really think voice over "talking" NPCs are going to be overrated. Why? I got tired of hearing the same thing when you went up to a NPC in Dragon Age. People read faster than listening, especially if they have to tell you a story...It might be the first few levels listening to someone but eventually you are going to just want the damn quest.
I think I saw one of those making of they got like either 700 pages worth of dialog or 700 hours of voice over, can you believe that? That is one of the things I like about WoW, the NPC just has one line voice over the rest is in text, and they made it instant, before you had to actually wait for the text quest! Of course I might be the only one with this problem.
On rare occasion a voice over is better than a text box. I hold the first NWN up as the best example of this. They had voice overs for significant chat sequences, but the stupid bullshit nobody cares about was just text that you could skim through. It has to be something really interesting to make voice worth it, especially in an MMO where everybody who actually plays them knows that efficiency is the key.
Every single mainstream MMO now has some sort of built in quest tracker system that essentially eliminates any need to read quest dialog or even the cliffnotes objective section. People like that. Do you know why? Because reading through flavor text for the umpteenth bazillilionth "collect x number of item y" quest is FUCKING BORING.
Yeah, virtually no MMO I've ever played (even EQ2, with it's extensive voice work the most in an MMO to date) made me really want to read or listen to the quest dialogue.
Most quests in mmo's are just "kill x number of y and bring back z amount of things."
There's only so many ways you can make something like that actually PART of the story or interesting, the 20th time the writers just get bored.
However in single player rpgs, like Dragon Age as mentioned, I actually WANTED to hear the voice actors say their lines, why? Because the story was the main part of the game. It was well written and the fun of the game was the story and characters.
The characters were all mostly interesting and had some very memorable lines "I've never licked a lampost in winter." You got to know and uncover things from the dialogue and such, unlike in mmo's where most things are general "throw away" writing that has no context with the overall writing or any ties to any main characters you'll get to know.
Most quests in mmo's are just "kill x number of y and bring back z amount of things."
There's only so many ways you can make something like that actually PART of the story or interesting, the 20th time the writers just get bored.
However in single player rpgs, like Dragon Age as mentioned, I actually WANTED to hear the voice actors say their lines, why? Because the story was the main part of the game. It was well written and the fun of the game was the story and characters.
The characters were all mostly interesting and had some very memorable lines "I've never licked a lampost in winter." You got to know and uncover things from the dialogue and such, unlike in mmo's where most things are general "throw away" writing that has no context with the overall writing or any ties to any main characters you'll get to know.
Colonel Sanders
Supreme [H]ardness
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This is why the characters being fully voiced in TOR is so important. TOR is going to be a lot more like a SPRPG than any other MMO that's come before it.
Godmachine
[H]F Junkie
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Number 1 : SW:TOR is not going to kill off WoW , I played WoW for 4+ years I know how a WoW player thinks. They are loyal and obsessed with game balancing and content , as long as that continues (no reason for it not to) they will continue to play for years on end without fail. I was lucky enough to find a lull in my game play time and I used it to break my habit and I haven't played since November of last year.
Number 2 : SW:TOR is still far away from release , MMOs are commonly delayed , expect this. I think the polish they will put in place will be higher than the average MMO but you never know.
Number 3 : MMOs don't start to shine for at least 6 months after release. Bugs bugs bugs bugs and balancing. These are the bane of a day 1 MMO , although Bioware has tons of experience but this is a different kind of pony race that they are not use to. MMO's need grow time and lots of after launch balancing , there will be over powered classes day one that will frustrate and make players wanna quit. Every MMO suffers from this problem up front , those willing to stick with it will be rewarded with better balance in the end (hopefully).
And finally again all this "WoW is so totally gonna get crushed dude , yea!" bullshit talk needs to stop. WoW is a huge success that continues to grow year after year , people love it to death .. it isn't going to be replaced anytime soon. There isn't one other MMO out there either released or in development that has the possible chance to dethrone an MMO with 12 million subscribers (which makes it larger than the population of Belgium). Take that thought out of your head.
Come to think of it there is one MMO that if ever made would provide true competition to WoW , a Starcraft based MMO.
Number 2 : SW:TOR is still far away from release , MMOs are commonly delayed , expect this. I think the polish they will put in place will be higher than the average MMO but you never know.
Number 3 : MMOs don't start to shine for at least 6 months after release. Bugs bugs bugs bugs and balancing. These are the bane of a day 1 MMO , although Bioware has tons of experience but this is a different kind of pony race that they are not use to. MMO's need grow time and lots of after launch balancing , there will be over powered classes day one that will frustrate and make players wanna quit. Every MMO suffers from this problem up front , those willing to stick with it will be rewarded with better balance in the end (hopefully).
And finally again all this "WoW is so totally gonna get crushed dude , yea!" bullshit talk needs to stop. WoW is a huge success that continues to grow year after year , people love it to death .. it isn't going to be replaced anytime soon. There isn't one other MMO out there either released or in development that has the possible chance to dethrone an MMO with 12 million subscribers (which makes it larger than the population of Belgium). Take that thought out of your head.
Come to think of it there is one MMO that if ever made would provide true competition to WoW , a Starcraft based MMO.
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silkshadow
n00b
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I really hope its not a huge disappointment. After having my hopes crushed by the Trek MMO, I would swear off of franchise MMO (and keep to it) if the SW MMO sucked too.
agreed..i've stated before that my expectations are that this is going to be a single player game that has multiplayer components
and if you listen to the developers, they are promoting trying different classes...why? story thats why...in all mmos, end game is getting that next uber weapon/armor/trinket than the one you had before so you can scale up to kill the other guy who has that better weapon/armor/ring
we really need to get off this damn merry go round called end game mmos..i'm sick of it..give me story..an expanding universe with more meat on its bones than going from +20 to +22 to +24 weapons ad nauseum
GoldenTiger
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Anyone know if they've ever released more PVP info regarding open world, or even if it'll be a major component of the game, lately? I haven't kept up on SWTOR for a few months.
I read this 'ex-employees' blog. He doesn't go into any real detail on why SWTOR is a joke. Honestly, the whole blog just comes off as 'I'm so mad. I'm so mad. You're morons because you're firing me. I'm so mad. I'm so mad.' He doesn't really establish any sort of credibility for himself. I'd take this blog with a grain of salt.
Azureth
Supreme [H]ardness
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How popular do you guys think this will be? A friend said it'll be a wow killer in a month.
Its not gay elf Fantasy
Its made by a reputable company Bioware.
Sounds like they won't release it until its ready ala Blizzard.
Remember how AoC was able to trick so many players? They used the polished shiny voice over level 1-20 Tortage tactic. Supposedly this entire game will have voice over. I'm sold already.
Of course after playing a few hours if it turns out like poo I won't hesitate to bash it.
Its made by a reputable company Bioware.
Sounds like they won't release it until its ready ala Blizzard.
Remember how AoC was able to trick so many players? They used the polished shiny voice over level 1-20 Tortage tactic. Supposedly this entire game will have voice over. I'm sold already.
Of course after playing a few hours if it turns out like poo I won't hesitate to bash it.
Not going to happen. There will be no "wow" killer until WoW 2 or Blizzard's next mmo which entices their entire fanbase to move on.
At the most companies getting into mmo's can do is find a good NORMAL market share, not aim for WoW numbers, Even a niche market is fine (IE Eve online).
harsaphes
Supreme [H]ardness
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When was Darth Vader Gay?
Colonel Sanders
Supreme [H]ardness
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I'm sure he's referring to Hayden Christenson, lol
Wrong. Blizzard fanboy detected.
This game is going to be popular without a doubt, and it actually already is without even coming out yet.
Wow killer in one month? That is not really possible for any game to do since they have such a long standing fan base and reputation that no other game has at the moment. But it certainly can be a WoW killer within 12 months I bet... they've spent LOTS of money and time into this game.
It's supposedly in beta right now, I saw a leaked clip of some gameplay but its hard to find now since the sites get taken down by force
Leakerz.net has plenty of in game footage. Leaked and otherwise.
Thanks!
Youtube deleted a lot of the video but I can see a few I think but they are russian and don't seem to load at all ... also there is a blog post on the front page that says the game is coming out September of this year.
Youtube deleted a lot of the video but I can see a few I think but they are russian and don't seem to load at all
... also there is a blog post on the front page that says the game is coming out September of this year.-leakerz.net homepage
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