Star Wars: TOR... Lowering My Expectations Yet Again...

M

mdk30

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 29, 2004
Messages
1,028
I love Star Wars, you know, those 3 movies with Han Solo, Luke, Leia, and a straight Darth Vader... anything after the original trilogy isn't Star Wars, if you disagree then you're probably 9 years old I don't care because you don't know anything. I also love(d) many a Star Wars game although once again there haven't been many of late.

With that said, I am increasingly lowering my expectations for the new Bioware Star Wars MMO, The Old Republic. I enjoyed the original KOTOR (never got around to the sequel), but every time I see another trailer for this new MMO it only looks worse than the last.

Take the latest one showing off the "space combat"... OK, I know it was too much to hope for anything approaching Tie Fighter or any of the better space sims that seem to no longer be made, but a fucking shitty version of Star Fox? Really?! I know it's only a minute's worth of footage to go off of, but if it's just going to be a tunnel shooter, why even bother?!

I could go on about the terrible looking art direction (a matter of taste I know, but all the characters look like dipshit versions of some failed cartoon series that never saw the light of day), and how most of the combat videos look like they came from some sort of tactical level turn based game, but I'm most concerned that the number one "feature" they keep talking about, the fact that just about all the dialogue is voice acted, is actually what they are focusing on in the first place. Why?! Whenever I see an annoying looking cartoon with awful lip synching utter some BS lines, I know I'm just going to want to skip every scene as fast as I can, if that's even possible. Please god let that be an option!

I want to like this game and hope that it succeeds, but every time I get another glimpse of it... well, I've got a bad feeling about this one... anyone else?
 
mdk30 said:
I love Star Wars, you know, those 3 movies with Han Solo, Luke, Leia, and a straight Darth Vader... anything after the original trilogy isn't Star Wars, if you disagree then you're probably 9 years old I don't care because you don't know anything. I also love(d) many a Star Wars game although once again there haven't been many of late.

With that said, I am increasingly lowering my expectations for the new Bioware Star Wars MMO, The Old Republic. I enjoyed the original KOTOR (never got around to the sequel), but every time I see another trailer for this new MMO it only looks worse than the last.

Take the latest one showing off the "space combat"... OK, I know it was too much to hope for anything approaching Tie Fighter or any of the better space sims that seem to no longer be made, but a fucking shitty version of Star Fox? Really?! I know it's only a minute's worth of footage to go off of, but if it's just going to be a tunnel shooter, why even bother?!

I could go on about the terrible looking art direction (a matter of taste I know, but all the characters look like dipshit versions of some failed cartoon series that never saw the light of day), and how most of the combat videos look like they came from some sort of tactical level turn based game, but I'm most concerned that the number one "feature" they keep talking about, the fact that just about all the dialogue is voice acted, is actually what they are focusing on in the first place. Why?! Whenever I see an annoying looking cartoon with awful lip synching utter some BS lines, I know I'm just going to want to skip every scene as fast as I can, if that's even possible. Please god let that be an option!

I want to like this game and hope that it succeeds, but every time I get another glimpse of it... well, I've got a bad feeling about this one... anyone else?
Click to expand...
I think the space combat is cool and I also think the prequels were just as good as the originals. And I'm not 9.
 
Hater. You don't like backstreet boy Anakin? Jar Jar? :p

My opinion is, I'd rather have KOTOR 3. but yeah, any video has been far from impressive.
 
th0r1 said:
I think the space combat is cool and I also think the prequels were just as good as the originals. And I'm not 9.
Click to expand...

Well I can only say I wish I was as easily impressed as you.
 
I never had high expectations to begin with. However, with Bioware at the helm I think the game will have a reasonably high level of quality and polish. That doesn't equate into being fun, though. I don't like the art style either.

Guild Wars 2 is putting SW:TOR to shame in so many categories...it just pales in comparison to the awesomeness of GW2.
 
Yeah, Bioware excels at singleplayer games but an MMO is a completely different beast. It seems like they're trying to do what they do best (story) with this too, but that may be like trying to put a square peg through a round hole.
 
The space combat turning out to be a rail shooter was a disappointment for me. I’d rather have it left out for now and a have a full-fledged space expansion a year or two down the road.

The full voice acting and detailed story arcs for each class is exciting to me and is Bioware’s style really. To be part of an epic story seems very Star Wars...and a sandbox Star Wars MMO has already been done.

The stylized graphics have grown on me...don’t have a problem with them.

It’s Bioware, I think they will do the IP justice overall
 
I have to disagree on the "sandbox Star Wars MMO" having already been done comment. Galaxies was an abomination that never should have seen the light of day, we cannot consider that a real game.

I know some people enjoy getting into a story arc, and again that's what Bioware does best... but I just don't see why that should be the central focus of an MMO. I mean you can experience a great story arc by yourself without having to pay $15 a month to access the content. The whole point of an MMO is to experience another world "inhabited" with other players that in one form or another are needed to cooperate/compete with. Tack on a story for everyone to enjoy if you want, but the whole reason for the genre is not contingent on story. Besides, what happens when you reach the end of the story? You can't possibly keep up with the need for more, more, more and there still needs to be something to actually DO at end-game/max level.
 
I think people are getting hyped about Old Republic out of desperation. It really does not impress me at all.
 
You're complaining about the MMO aspects of an MMO. I suppose that's a perfectly fine thing to complain about, but it seems a little obvious, like complaining about the shooting in an FPS.
 
th0r1 said:
I think the space combat is cool and I also think the prequels were just as good as the originals. And I'm not 9.
Click to expand...

This is the most absurd thing I've ever read on this forum. Good Day.

The OPer: You should consider playing the sequel to KOTOR. No, it isn't as good as the original, but with the restoration mod it comes close ( I would argue it had the potential to be better, actually). Well worth the 30-40 hours invested.
 
Last edited:
th0r1 said:
I think the space combat is cool and I also think the prequels were just as good as the originals. And I'm not 9.
Click to expand...

@ tH0r1 While the prequels were not as good as episodes 4,5 and 6 I still liked em. As for Jar Jar ? he was the comic relief ?.

This part is directed at the OP.And I'm way, way, way past 9. lol.

You also have to remember a couple of things. First; This is Biowares first MMO. If it's even half as good as their RPG games SWTOR should be a blast to play.
Secondly; Less than what? 1 percent of all PC owners have very high end rigs that can run graphics full out balls to the wall. They have to program for the lowest common denominator
so that a very large audience can buy and play the game on their mid range to "low end" rigs.

I'm willing to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt as they have not disappointed me yet.and as for your following comment
"anything after the original trilogy isn't Star Wars, if you disagree then you're probably 9 years old I don't care because you don't know anything"
are you 15 or something ? seriuosly ? lol.

I love the Star Wars Universe. Are eposodes 1 , 2 and 3 as good as A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi ? In my opinion no.
The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones were both fine for me. Revenge of the Sith ? was ok but that movie felt like it was just thrown out the door fast to make a buck. Felt totally disjointed
and had absolutely no flow. Nor did it make sense how Anakin just turned to the dark side at the drop of a hat ? lol. Revenge of the Sith was severly lacking in many areas.
Star Wars is Lucas's baby so I guess he can pretty much do whatever the hell he want's with it.

back to SWTOR.... I'm very much looking forward to this game. I like good graphics as much as the next guy, but for me fun/ gameplay is greater than all else.

I thought Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic was one of the best games of all time. The sequel to that could have been great but it was pushed out the door too soon,
wasn't finished and it showed.
 
Last edited:
krameriffic said:
You're complaining about the MMO aspects of an MMO. I suppose that's a perfectly fine thing to complain about, but it seems a little obvious, like complaining about the shooting in an FPS.
Click to expand...

Who is? What MMO aspects?
 
th0r1 said:
I think the space combat is cool and I also think the prequels were just as good as the originals. And I'm not 9.
Click to expand...

If you were my friend you'd be dead to me. You have no soul and you aren't human.
 
I don't mind bashing episodes 1-3, even though I thoroughly enjoyed them. There were parts that were awesome and parts that deserved lots of bashing. John Williams being one of the highlights. Anakin being a low point. Although he did an ok job looking psycho. He looked his best at the way end of episode 3. :D


I'll say it again, the whole problem with TOR is that it's not KOTOR.
 
my take on swtor: a single player gaming experience that has multiplayer added to it...there, i said it.

i read somewhere the 'storyline' for each 'character' is gonna take upwards of 200 hours to complete...my, sounds like a juicy single player game to me..then, rinse and repeat with all the other characters until an expansion comes out.

we'll see if this comes true a year from now...

and i could of lived without the 'space combat' part too..

if I wanted space combat, I'd go buy a space combat game
 
Bangorang said:
my take on swtor: a single player gaming experience that has multiplayer added to it...there, i said it.

i read somewhere the 'storyline' for each 'character' is gonna take upwards of 200 hours to complete...my, sounds like a juicy single player game to me..then, rinse and repeat with all the other characters until an expansion comes out.

we'll see if this comes true a year from now...

and i could of lived without the 'space combat' part too..

if I wanted space combat, I'd go buy a space combat game
Click to expand...

That wouldn't be that bad, so long as I can actually play mostly by myself. I love both Bioware and the Star War universe, but I hate the thought of having to organize my time around an MMO. If I can pick it up and work on it over a couple of months, and not be for the worse from it, then I'll be happy.
 
I didn't even expect them to have any space combat mechanic at all, so this was a pleasant surprise. Anyone who expected anything more in depth wasn't paying attention.

Gordon Walton (Co-Studio Director of BW Austin) said at GDC this year that doing the whole "Space Expansion" thing was a huge mistake on Star Wars Galaxies because it amounted to an entire expansion cycle of ignoring the core game.

I'm glad they are focusing on making an MMO, and not trying to please everyone like SWG tried to do. We saw how well that worked out.

Whether they succeed or not remains to be seen, but the people surprised or upset by this space thing did it to themselves.
 
After watching my friend play the beta, all I can say is I'm not going to play it. Now I know where all the folks who wanted another KOTOR are coming from.
 
th0r1 said:
I think the space combat is cool and I also think the prequels were just as good as the originals. And I'm not 9.
Click to expand...

So you're saying you absolutely hated the originals then?

;)

Seriously though... about the prequel.. one of the most annoying things about the prequel trilogy is it felt like a lot of it was time filler, while leaving out a lot of the important stuff. Anakin's downfall from being the good man that Obi-Wan seems to remember - we never saw it happen. He went from being a very annoying child to a dick 20 year old. We never really see any of these instances of him being a good, helping Jedi.

He was NEVER likable to me. In fact, I can't think of any single character that really pulled me through the story. In the original, both Luke and Han filled those roles. In the prequel trilogies... well, I guess Qui-Gon at first. But he died. Then Obi-Wan, but he was so terribly one dimensional. Maybe R2. He's probably the best character in the prequels.

Anakin? No. He was annoying. He was just unlikable.

Although I'll grant you this - there was SO MUCH GOING ON IN EVERY SCENE in the prequel trilogy. I think I had a few seizures, actually.
 
NKDietrich said:
What were your main gripes with it?
Click to expand...

I guess expecting too much earlier on did a lot to change my view on it and with that aside:

Graphics- Look cartoony as hell, almost to the point where it looks like some shitty CGI show you'd see on Cartoon Network or Nickelodeon. The characters and animations are ridiculous too (boots being bigger than the legs, proportions, etc.)

Gameplay- Don't let the "dynamic" cover-system and what not fool you, it's all clunky and awkward. The game follows the same system that every MMO uses for party/group play (tank, healer, dps, etc.), shit that's been done in practically every MMO.

The only real thing this has going for it is the lore and I guess the voice acting/story they put into each NPC. I really don't want to call this WoW with lightsabers, but that's what I got from my experience ( I watched, not played )
 
th0r1 said:
I think the space combat is cool and I also think the prequels were just as good as the originals. And I'm not 9.
Click to expand...


as good? they were ok, no where near as good.

the first trailer for tor was sick. but since then i havent been as excited.
 
th0r1 said:
I think the space combat is cool and I also think the prequels were just as good as the originals. And I'm not 9.
Click to expand...
I agree, but I would phrase it more like: the prequels were just as bad as the originals.
The only thing worse in the prequels was the idiotic story. The dialogue, acting, and characters were just as bad. The story was the only thing that saved it from being garbage.
The way they are going to screw this game up is by treating like a WoW-type cash machine instead of a game

KatalDT said:
Seriously though... about the prequel.. one of the most annoying things about the prequel trilogy is it felt like a lot of it was time filler, while leaving out a lot of the important stuff. Anakin's downfall from being the good man that Obi-Wan seems to remember - we never saw it happen. He went from being a very annoying child to a dick 20 year old. We never really see any of these instances of him being a good, helping Jedi.
Click to expand...

We also didn't see any instances of any other jedi doing anything particularly helpful. If it wasn't tax disputes then it just didn't matter to these jedi.
 
Last edited:
RailGunRiz said:
Gameplay- Don't let the "dynamic" cover-system and what not fool you, it's all clunky and awkward
Click to expand...

I think that will be something cleared up sometime before release (obviously). From watching early beta gameplay videos, to a recent video, it doesn't seem as clunky. I'm talking about movement and fighting in general. There's probably a lot of other things they are focusing on first, this would all be just more polish they do towards the end me thinks.
 
FYMbyIce said:
I agree, but I would phrase it more like: the prequels were just as bad as the originals.
The only thing worse in the prequels was the idiotic story. The dialogue, acting, and characters were just as bad. The story was the only thing that saved it from being garbage.
The way they are going to screw this game up is by treating like a WoW-type cash machine instead of a game
Click to expand...

You gotta admit that at least ONE PERSON in the Star Wars original series had genuine charisma - Harrison Ford. Who had that in the prequels? Samuel L. Jackson? Yeah, him and his fifteen lines or whatever he got. And Padme was just eye candy.

Also, the bad guy (Darth Vader) was much more menacing, with an evil pseudo-puppet master behind him. There was also conflict in the villain (being Vader) - he wasn't entirely one dimensional. He wasn't pure evil.

Who was the bad guy in the prequel?

It was Darth Maul! Oh, wait, no, he didn't really do anything.
It was Count Dooku! Oh, wait, no, he's not that important.
It was General Grievous! Oh... no.. not really I guess.

IT WAS THE EMPOROR! Oh. Yeah. Well, that was exciting. Incredibly one dimensional. No surprises or twists - kind of a side effect of being a prequel. What was supposed to be cunning and manipulative was simply boring and drawn out. He never really trapped Anakin in a cunning way. Maybe if the connection between Panda Bear or whatever and Anakin was convincing, we could believe that he actually did believe he could save her and really had good intentions originally.

But he never had ANY good intentions. Though the whole series. (Well, I guess you can exempt Episode 1, but he was just kind of a lucky idiot in that movie...)


Meh. I do understand that the original trilogy was no masterpiece of suspense and character development. It was hardly original - just wizards in space. The rehashed Death Star plot was disappointing. Ewoks suck.

But at least it had a winning formula, and it's hard to argue that. The prequel... well, it didn't really have a formula.
 
RailGunRiz said:
The game follows the same system that every MMO uses for party/group play (tank, healer, dps, etc.), shit that's been done in practically every MMO.
Click to expand...

I started up a video for this game and the guy said "Now the party has 4 main classes heres our tank our healer our damage dealer and our utility"

I shut off the video then took a hammer to my monitor immediately.

Bioware is about 5 years too late in terms of dropping a cookie-cutter MMO. Everyone that wants to play a run-of-the-mill MMO has already picked their game.
 
The stylized art direction works for this game. All games don't need the photorealistic look to it to be a good game.

My only concern, as with many, is what will the end game content be like?

Next year seems far away but I'm sure it'll come by quick.
 
NKDietrich said:
I didn't even expect them to have any space combat mechanic at all, so this was a pleasant surprise. Anyone who expected anything more in depth wasn't paying attention.

Gordon Walton (Co-Studio Director of BW Austin) said at GDC this year that doing the whole "Space Expansion" thing was a huge mistake on Star Wars Galaxies because it amounted to an entire expansion cycle of ignoring the core game.

I'm glad they are focusing on making an MMO, and not trying to please everyone like SWG tried to do. We saw how well that worked out.

Whether they succeed or not remains to be seen, but the people surprised or upset by this space thing did it to themselves.
Click to expand...

Oh please. It's Star Wars. It's a MMO. It's a fucking Star Wars MMO! Star Wars is space combat. An epic, or dare I say, massive game based on the Star Wars franchise just wouldn't be complete without it. You simply can't hold back on something integral to the experience when you know a huge number of people are going to expect it. Hell, you even tease the world with having their own ship for fuck's sake... you have to deliver after that!

And no, I simply do not care if your company isn't "in the business" of making a decent space sim. Take half a legion of your finest developers and skimp on a few lines of boring, pretentious dialogue and get on it! If that's still too hard, LucasArts should get off their lazy asses and actually develop something, or at least part of something on their own for a change.

I know, it's all much too difficult and something only those from a bygone era would ever appreciate anyway. :rolleyes:
 
RailGunRiz said:
-snip-

The only real thing this has going for it is the lore and I guess the voice acting/story they put into each NPC. I really don't want to call this WoW with lightsabers, but that's what I got from my experience ( I watched, not played )
Click to expand...

And see, that just isn't enough. At least it isn't to me anymore. I could give a shit about all the made-up lore that Lucas has other people crank out for him in every conceivable form of media known to man at this point. I knew way less about Warcraft lore and still skipped nearly every dialogue screen I came across in the entire 4+ on/off years I played WoW. All I, or anyone else I played with really cared about was gearing and grouping up together to kick the shit out of someone or something; which is why it boggles my mind that this M-to-the-MO appears to want to make me sit through one dialogue tree after another while my buddy's are all off somewhere else dialogueing the shit out of their assholes all on their own too. Woooeee! Fun time with friends, yeah! :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top