Star Trek Fan Film Motion To Dismiss Denied

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Well, this sucks. Even though Paramount filed a copyright complaint against an indie movie that hasn’t even started filming, the judge in this case is allowing the lawsuit to move forward. The judge stated that even though not everything listed in the suit has copyright protection, when the items were considered together, they are protected content. For those of you not familiar with Axanar:

"Although the Court declines to address whether Plaintiffs’ Claims will prosper at this time, the Court does find Plaintiffs’ claims will live long enough to survive Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss. For the foregoing reasons, the Court DENIES Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss." Winston & Strawn will now prepare our answer to the amended complaint, which is due in 14 days. In the meantime, we continue our efforts to settle this matter with CBS and Paramount so we can move forward with telling the story of AXANAR in a way that satisfies both the studios and the over ten thousand fans who financially supported our project.
 
It always sucks to see a company going after it's fans. They should be supporting this kind of thing as long as the creators aren't trying to monetize the film.
 
I'd rather watch this than the reboots. This looks to be Star Trek at heart.
 
I'll never understand why anyone thinks fan projects like this can end up any other way. It isn't about shutting fans down, it is about licensing and maintaining legal control of the brand. If a company doesn't protect their IP with these type of lawsuits they risk the brand falling into public domain and losing all copyrights to the brand.
 
I can't understand how Paramount thinks this will help them. They're going after their most hardcore fans for making a non-profit film. The kinds of people that pay to help finance these are probably the same people that buy all the dvds, comic books, tshirts, and go to all the conventions etc. Hurting the most loyal fans is not a good plan.
 
Sounds like the judge is a Star Trek fan what with the way he snuck "live long and prosper" into the decision :):):)
 
modi123 said:
Another example of "if you don't protect it you can lose it". Fairly open and shut.
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Yeah, I don't think this is Paramount going after fans. They've not had a problem with other fan projects in the past. I'd love to see Axanar made as much as anyone being a huge Trek fan, but at some point it'd be anyone would be able to make a Star Trek film, perhaps even for profit. It would be in everyone's best interest if Paramount and Axanar could do some sort of licensing deal.
 
chili dog said:
I can't understand how Paramount thinks this will help them. They're going after their most hardcore fans for making a non-profit film. The kinds of people that pay to help finance these are probably the same people that buy all the dvds, comic books, tshirts, and go to all the conventions etc. Hurting the most loyal fans is not a good plan.
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Its mostly about precedent. If they stand down on this then where do they draw the line?

I cant see how any rational thinking person cant see why they are doing this. If you owned an IP like this and a bunch of amateurs wanted to use your IP, especially considering they want to use it in a way thats contrary to how you are currently using it (Paramount wants ST to stay new and sexy, the fans want the old style) you wold be foolish to just back down. You say they are hurting the fans but the reality is that fan base is small. They are also the same people that bash the current version of star trek endlessly. Who in their right mind would cater to them?
 
Someone could have just reached out to Paramount's legal team before any of this and asked what they can or cannot do. Never hurts to get things in writing and THEN proceeding with what's allowed.
 
Maybe companies could devise a way to be licensed. I guess the owner of the franchise would need to be worried about the quality of the products - a poor production could hurt the brand image. Darn. Thorny issue.
 
In the end the movie doesn't get made. Or gets made but in paramounts image instead. Either way its probably going to have a bad outcome for us.
 
101998 said:
I'll never understand why anyone thinks fan projects like this can end up any other way. It isn't about shutting fans down, it is about licensing and maintaining legal control of the brand. If a company doesn't protect their IP with these type of lawsuits they risk the brand falling into public domain and losing all copyrights to the brand.
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that is precisely what needs to change
 
101998 said:
I'll never understand why anyone thinks fan projects like this can end up any other way. It isn't about shutting fans down, it is about licensing and maintaining legal control of the brand. If a company doesn't protect their IP with these type of lawsuits they risk the brand falling into public domain and losing all copyrights to the brand.
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They would lose right to control the trademark, but they would not lose their copyrights.
 
prime2515102 said:
Star Trek died with Gene Roddenberry.
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Star Trek died when Paramount put Rick Berman in charge before TNG began production even though had zero experience with sci-fi, and could only barely remember having watched a couple episodes of any sci-fi show as a kid.
 
People defending these guys are silly. I mean I would have loved to see it but was pretty sure they where going to get shut down. There claims of non-profit are bogus. If your hiring people and paying for work done its hard to claim non profit. Giving yourself a job doesn't make you a non profit.

Then there is the fact that these guys went to CBS/Paramont first and pitched this to them. When they where turned down, they started asking for donations totaling the amount they told CBC they would need to be budgeted and started doing it anyway. Perhaps if they hadn't pitched it as a for profit venture with the rights holder to begin with, the rights holder may have believed their claims of non profit.
 
ChadD said:
People defending these guys are silly. I mean I would have loved to see it but was pretty sure they where going to get shut down. There claims of non-profit are bogus. If your hiring people and paying for work done its hard to claim non profit. Giving yourself a job doesn't make you a non profit.

Then there is the fact that these guys went to CBS/Paramont first and pitched this to them. When they where turned down, they started asking for donations totaling the amount they told CBC they would need to be budgeted and started doing it anyway. Perhaps if they hadn't pitched it as a for profit venture with the rights holder to begin with, the rights holder may have believed their claims of non profit.
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Most non-profit companies I know of hire people to do the work for them. The only stipulation for being able to claim non-profit status is that you don't make a profit, not that you don't take any money at all.
 
I've been following this Axanar project for a while. Very disappointing news, indeed. The Star Trek Continues project has been running out of steam, IMO. I applaud and appreciate their efforts, but the last two episodes have been snooze-fests. "Fairest of Them All," however, was quite good.
 
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ryan_975 said:
Most non-profit companies I know of hire people to do the work for them. The only stipulation for being able to claim non-profit status is that you don't make a profit, not that you don't take any money at all.
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Yup. These guys setup a production company and were paying themselves out of the group-funded money. They were not going to make money off selling the movie, but they were going to be making money. To me that is the difference between a 'Fan" film and a professional one.
 
This really sucks, because Prelude to Axanar is amazing. It feels like Trek, looks like Trek, and deserves to see the light of day.
 
Shmee said:
Yup. These guys setup a production company and were paying themselves out of the group-funded money. They were not going to make money off selling the movie, but they were going to be making money. To me that is the difference between a 'Fan" film and a professional one.
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Exactly almost everyone would love to do what they love, be their own boss and make a living from it as well. We all can, its called starting a business. These guys did exactly that with an IP that didn't belong to them. There is a large number of businesses that don't make profit on the books but create a paying job for the people that own it... that doesn't mean because they don't make "profit" they can go and start making exact copies of copyrighted products. If that was the way the world worked... companies could produce clones of pretty much any item they like... pay themselves a salary of every last "profit" penny and claim to be a non profit.
 
I don't know how they didn't expect this, Paramount is going to protect their copyright regardless of the intent of the infringement. They basically have to, the only other option would be to license the fan-made content and they did discuss it. Couldn't come to terms apparently.
 
ChadD said:
People defending these guys are silly. I mean I would have loved to see it but was pretty sure they where going to get shut down. There claims of non-profit are bogus. If your hiring people and paying for work done its hard to claim non profit. Giving yourself a job doesn't make you a non profit.

Then there is the fact that these guys went to CBS/Paramont first and pitched this to them. When they where turned down, they started asking for donations totaling the amount they told CBC they would need to be budgeted and started doing it anyway. Perhaps if they hadn't pitched it as a for profit venture with the rights holder to begin with, the rights holder may have believed their claims of non profit.
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As mentioned by others, non profit doesn't mean that the people working are volunteers without a salary. That's a separate issue. As also mentioned, if you don't defend your trademark then you lose it and that's what this boils down to.
 
ChadD said:
People defending these guys are silly. I mean I would have loved to see it but was pretty sure they where going to get shut down. There claims of non-profit are bogus. If your hiring people and paying for work done its hard to claim non profit. Giving yourself a job doesn't make you a non profit.
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Copyright infringement can still exist with or without profit. The judge made that abundantly clear. It doesn't matter if Axanar isn't a non profit; or ST: Continues, a resgisterd 501(c)(3) is. It's still infringement of CBS/Paramount franchise material.

ryan_975 said:
Most non-profit companies I know of hire people to do the work for them. The only stipulation for being able to claim non-profit status is that you don't make a profit, not that you don't take any money at all.
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But Axanar is in the deeper wrong, IMO. Non-profit doesn't mean they can't make money, it means that no owners shall benefit from proceeds. And Alec Peters definitely benefitted.

I flipped ST:C $20 bucks this past spring. It is the best of all the Trek fan projects. "Lolani" was my favorite so far.
 
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How Axanar Needs to End

By Lukas Kendall

I feel compelled to explain the truth behind the Axanar lawsuit. People get swept up in the colorful legal motions being filed by both sides. Those are just theater. What is important is behind the scenes. This conflict, far from possibly facilitating the official licensing of Star Trek fan films, is holding them up—badly, wasting everybody’s time and hurting regular people.

Ideally, not-for-profit Star Trek fan films would be simple for fans to register and legally distribute. It’s not far-fetched: Lucasfilm has official rules for Star Wars fan films and even offers awards and makes available downloads of sounds and music (Star Wars Fan Film Awards 2016). However, Star Wars is an easier property to administer than Star Trek: it has a shorter history, a sole owner (although acquired by Disney, Lucasfilm is administratively intact) and a younger audience that seems interested in making a different kind of fan film—shorts (limited by the rules to five minutes) rather than the hour-long episodes of Star Trek.

For Star Trek fan films to be legitimized, it will take an enormous amount of work and risk for sympathetic CBS executives. (CBS owns the Star Trek intellectual property and television rights, while Paramount Pictures owns the movie rights. For purposes of this article, I will refer solely to CBS as they administer Star Trek licensing.) First and most importantly, CBS cannot do anything that even remotely sets a legal precedent of compromising its rights to Star Trek. That’s how people get fired. Executives would have to convince their colleagues and lawyers at multiple levels to help devise this…why? There’s no money in it—it’s good P.R. and that’s about it. It actually loses money, because of the time they have to spend supervising it. There is every reason for bosses and lawyers to say no and almost no reason to say yes. This is why, prior to CBS suing Axanar, CBS officially pretended like the fan films did not exist—it was legally and bureaucratically the only way to let them exist.

Secondly, you have to figure out how to make sure nobody profits off of the fan films. But “non-profit” is not the standard that should apply. The real standard should be “non-commercial.”

Fan films are produced by amateurs on a volunteer basis. (Sounds reasonable, right?) But films are expensive—there’s no way around that. Even if people contribute volunteer labor, there are production needs that cost hard money: from locations and equipment to food. “Mission creep” inspires the producers to seek better talent behind and in front of the cameras, and raise money to pay for it. They go from family and friends pitching in, to soliciting private donations, to using crowdsourcing (on Kickstarter, Indiegogo, et al.) to raise six and even seven figures. (That’s not hypothetical, that’s what happened.)

So let’s say CBS establishes official fan film rules. I am truly at a loss as to how they would police them. It’s like they’d have to become the NCAA. Do you limit donations to…what? An arbitrary number? Do you ban the use of crowdsourcing platforms (tilting the playing field towards the independently wealthy)? Audit people to ensure compliance? Who pays for that?

There has to be some financial definition of non-commercial but I’m not sure you can put a number on it. No matter the rules you devise to keep the fan films amateur and non-commercial, some (not all) will find loopholes. Make a limit of $50,000 per fan film and you will see them produced in 15-minute segments. Make it $50,000 per hour and you will push money underground. Allow appeals for exceptions and you will be deluged in appeals. Fans are motivated enough to make their own Star Trek episodes—of course they will be determined and clever enough to find ways to raise more money and make better films.

Which brings us to Axanar.

If there was any way to abuse CBS’ goodwill in looking the other way on the fan films, Axanar did—and then some. This is something they and their followers will dispute…but please. They raised over a million dollars in multiple efforts. They used their donor funds to lease a warehouse in Castaic (an hour north of Los Angeles) and turn it into a soundstage which they bragged would be a base for ongoing commercial ventures. They attempted to cast their film through the Hollywood agencies with professional talent. They shamelessly ran a store for bootleg Star Trek merchandise under the guise of “perks” for “donors” (like Axanar coffee—not making that up). They fostered an atmosphere—or at least did not discourage it—that Axanar was true Star Trek and the J.J. Abrams films were dogshit. They got in fights with other fan films. They built a cult of personality around the principal (what could go wrong?). Lately, they’ve taken to censoring negative comments on their official website and forums like a bad parody of a communist state.

Personality matters, and the personality of the Axanar principal has rubbed people the wrong way. By his own admission, he paid himself a salary because Axanar is his full-time job. Sorry, but this is the opposite of what making a fan film is supposed to be. Axanar is not a hobby, it is a profession, allowing him to enjoy the lifestyle of a film producer and specifically a Star Trek film producer: adulation, creative fulfillment, travel, glamour and attention, paid for by Star Trek fans. Sure, it’s hard work, and relatively low-pay, but it’s exactly what he wants to do—be the captain of his ownStar Trek ship. (He even cast himself as Captain Garth until his team threatened to revolt over the obvious problem that he can’t act.)

This is why Axanar has developed a legion of “hate watchers” in addition to supporters—because the principal has made himself into a reality-show character. Some people love him, most love to hate him.

So let’s discuss the Axanar lawsuit. Having obtained pro bono counsel, Axanar is vigorously fighting back. There are three things they can achieve by doing this: 1) They can drag this out for months, if not years. 2) They can embarrass and annoy CBS through bad press. 3) They can, possibly, use the legal proceedings to turn up unflattering facts about CBS and Paramount’s finances, business deals and ownership of Star Trek.

If you think any of that (particularly no. 3) gives Axanar leverage, think again. All they are doing is making CBS dig in their heels. Legally, politically and in every possible way, CBS will never agree to a settlement that allows Axanar to be made. It would be a massive humiliation and an admission that they can be abused and bullied by people they perceive to be thieves. There is no way a corporation of that size (two corporations, actually) gets everybody to sign off on such a capitulation. Better to lose money than lose face.

It’s also impossible for Axanar to win their lawsuit. I won’t bother to dissect the court motions. If Axanar were to somehow prevail, it would basically means there’s no such thing as copyright. I would be shocked if they got as far as depositions, let alone trial. Just watch the principal’s web appearances (or don’t): what lawyer would allow him to be deposed?

So why is Axanar fighting the lawsuit? To some degree, because the principal is delusional—and he found a law firm that loves the publicity and is egging him on. But mostly, it’s because he has no idea how to get out of this mess. He just wants to postpone the disgrace of admitting he has failed his donors.

This is not a victimless crime. That $1.3 million Axanar raised came from real people, who love Star Trek and gave Axanar their precious cash to make more of it. And the principal behaved in such a reckless, egregious and self-aggrandizing way that he was bound to be sued. It’s shameful.

If Axanar wanted, they could end this lawsuit by the time you finished reading this article. All the principal has to do is call the CBS executives (he knows them) and offer this: 1) We will wind down operations completely and 2) refund as much donor money as we can on a pro-rata basis.

The problem is that CBS would say yes but add a third item: that the principal accepts a lifetime ban from any commercial involvement with Star Trek. We’re talking Pete Rose-banned-from baseball. He does not go on to make a documentary about Axanar, write the memoirs of Captain Garth, sell props and sign autographs at conventions. They want him to vanish off the face of the earth. That’s how much they loathe and distrust him.

Number three would probably prevent the principal from agreeing to this proposal. Because he likes being a big shot, and more importantly, he knows he will need the money that comes from being a minor Star Trek celebrity. And he’ll have nothing better to do.

The best way to help donors get over their disappointment that they will never see Axanar is to give them the script. I’ve read it (the final draft) and sorry…it’s not very good. It’s basically a fan film, servicing fan ideas, repetitive and shallow on any real level. But that’s beside the point. Axanar successfully made their donors think they were getting the best thing since sliced bread. When they eventually read the script, some people will still believe that. But most will go, “Oh…Okay.”

A thorny issue remains of what to do with the warehouse which Axanar spent donor money to lease and renovate into a shooting stage. In the short term, that stage has a significant “burn rate” that will exhaust the donor money and get Axanar evicted—unless Axanar leases it for commercial use. Both options are problematic. The stage cannot be liquidated (dismantled) in order to repay the donors, but clearly somebody—be it the landlord or the next tenant—is going to benefit from the donors’ largesse. CBS obviously would not want the Axanar principal, or John Does, to continue to operate the stage, because they cannot be allowed to benefit from their bad actions. Ideally there would be some kind of trustee who operates it commercially to make back the donors’ money and get them whole—perhaps a public auction of those rights…yuck, what a can of worms.

You may be saying, won’t CBS want damages? $150,000 per infringement or whatever it says in the lawsuit? Of course not. Does CBS want an article in The Hollywood Reporter that they are collecting donor money from a fan film in a legal settlement? No! Talk about the most odious press imaginable. I’ll bet Axanar could even get out of having to pay CBS’ court costs.

So this is the best-case scenario: Axanar shuts down, permanently, refunds as much money to donors as possible, and tries to help CBS with the P.R. mess. Eventually, CBS finds a way to authorize the fan films…minus Axanar, which will never be made.

I would bet anything that CBS would accept this—but CBS cannot propose it legally. Axanar needs to propose it and have CBS accept. Which they can do. It only takes a phone call.

Will Axanar do that? No. Not right now. It’s too painful for the principal. But eventually he’ll have to. And for the good of everybody, it needs to be sooner rather than later.

Why am I writing this?

Because as much as I love hate-watching Axanar, I empathize with all the people being hurt by this fiasco: Primarily, theStar Trek fans who gave their money. But there are also the makers of the other fan films (now in jeopardy), the CBS executives dealing with this shit (better people than anybody realizes), and even the John Does at Axanar who just wanted to make a Star Trek film.

This needs to end. And for it to end, public pressure needs to mount on Axanar to throw in the towel, refund the donor money and accept humiliation and punishment. If CBS can get out from under this madness, I have no doubt they will make a good-faith effort to license the fan films. They just can’t do that in a climate of people raising hundreds of thousands of dollars in Kickstarter money and using Star Trek as a license to print money. That’s their job.

I’m joking, but not really. Ordinarily I’d stand for the little guy against the giant corporations—but this is different. The Axanar principal is stealing something that doesn’t belong to him to make money and have fun, and that’s offensive to all of us who live our lives not stealing things, even though we may want to. It’s that simple.

The Axanar principal needs to see that his public support from Star Trek fans is crumbling. He has to get to the point where he sees there is no way out, because only then will he fall on his sword and martyr himself to help all the futureStar Trek fan films (if not his).

Forward this essay to all Star Trek fans.

Now you know…and knowing is half the battle!
 
In other words, Axanar fucked up in the worst way possible. They basically screwed themselves six ways from Sunday and there's no getting around that. And they not only put themselves in danger while doing all of this but they have put other fan movies in danger and this whole situation even stopped another production from starting, namely Star Trek: Federation Rising which was supposed to be a sequel to Star Trek: Horizon by Tommy Kraft.

Tommy Kraft

Earlier today, executives from CBS reached out to me and advised me that their legal team strongly suggested that we do not move forward with plans to create a sequel to Horizon. While this is a sign of the current climate that we find ourselves in with Star Trek fan films, I want to personally thank CBS for reaching out to me, rather than including us in their ongoing lawsuit against Axanar.

It was conveyed that the reason CBS was reaching out to me was due to the legal troubles stemming from the Axanar case. Again, CBS did not have to reach out personally. The message I received felt more like they were giving me a heads up before we got too involved in another project, rather than a group of angry executives swinging a hammer.​

With that said, the Axanar lawsuit has brought about more damage than anyone possibly could have realized. For the first time in history, fan fiction may very well be threatened.
 
101998 said:
I'll never understand why anyone thinks fan projects like this can end up any other way. It isn't about shutting fans down, it is about licensing and maintaining legal control of the brand. If a company doesn't protect their IP with these type of lawsuits they risk the brand falling into public domain and losing all copyrights to the brand.
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Exactly this. If these individuals would approach the IP holders FIRST, there's a good chance these types of stories would turn out very differently. Instead, they just disrespect the IP holder's rights and put the IP holder in the position of being the "bad guy."
 
NExUS1g said:
Exactly this. If these individuals would approach the IP holders FIRST, there's a good chance these types of stories would turn out very differently. Instead, they just disrespect the IP holder's rights and put the IP holder in the position of being the "bad guy."
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That is the main issue with this one... they did reach out first. They pitched the project to CBS, selling themselves as a pro production company looking to partner. There first move was to attempt to SELL this to CBS. With CBS funding the production company. CBS heard them and said thanks but no thanks. The next thing they know these guys are making it anyway with money they begged for... that just happens to be around the same amount of $ they where asked for as a production budget in their pitch meeting. Its still mind boggling these guys thought CBS was just going to let it slide.
 
modi123 said:
Another example of "if you don't protect it you can lose it". Fairly open and shut.

Examples of past lost trademarks..
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First off, these are trade marks, not all IP. Star Wars has plenty of fan films going around and has been a huge part of western culture and is one of the most generally known IPs in the genre, the IP still belongs to the rights holders (now Disney). This isn't the name of a product, its an IP.
 
This is definitely copyright infringement and trademark infringement, to be sure. Sucks still, though. Not that I've watched it, but it sounds like the fans behind the project are real fans wanting to expand the universe.
 
I just don't get it, some of you arguing that they HAVE to take them to court or risk their copyright.

No.

They could very well easily LICENSE out the copyright for this film.

I mean it's obvious that many die hard Star Trek fans loved the prequel to this, and the focus of this is NOT in any way geared toward the "new" Star Trek films, it's a totally different demographic geared toward people that enjoyed the older Star Treks.

So they could come to an agreement to license it, and by doing so they would then not be risking ANYTHING by allowing it, since it'd be an officially licensed thing. I'd assume they'd actually want some money or something though for that.

This would in-turn not only allow for the Star Trek Fandom to remain intact (and other fan films) but also would go a long way of helping their image and not hurting their fanbase.
 
I could be wrong but I'm almost 100% sure, that only applies to trademarks, and not copyright. That said, they are using the star trek name.

It'd be great if they do do a license thing but I seriously doubt that'll happen.
 
pothb said:
I could be wrong but I'm almost 100% sure, that only applies to trademarks, and not copyright. That said, they are using the star trek name.

It'd be great if they do do a license thing but I seriously doubt that'll happen.
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Regardless, its a bit of a dick move by the license holder.
 
I guess what I would like to know is that while allowing constant usage can garner loss of the IP, I don't see how allowing a single fan film (especially one of such quality) would, in anyway, push them towards losing it. Clearly not EVERYTHING can be allowed, as the more that is the larger a chance of loss...but something like this? Come on, it can slide, can't it?
 
101998 said:
I'll never understand why anyone thinks fan projects like this can end up any other way. It isn't about shutting fans down, it is about licensing and maintaining legal control of the brand. If a company doesn't protect their IP with these type of lawsuits they risk the brand falling into public domain and losing all copyrights to the brand.
Click to expand...
They can protect their brand without shafting fans in the process. If they wanted to. Instead of going after them, they could offer a contract to the creators, where the film would be released under the copyright of paramount, and all profits would go to paramount.
Obviously the fans want this project to be made more than they want their official projects. So it would be a win win. It would be a huge pr boost for paramount, without lifting a finger.

Instead they're going to waste a ton of money on legal fees, ruin the project and its creators. And get a ton of bad PR with the already disgruntled core fan base.
 
ChadD said:
That is the main issue with this one... they did reach out first. They pitched the project to CBS, selling themselves as a pro production company looking to partner. There first move was to attempt to SELL this to CBS. With CBS funding the production company. CBS heard them and said thanks but no thanks. The next thing they know these guys are making it anyway with money they begged for... that just happens to be around the same amount of $ they where asked for as a production budget in their pitch meeting. Its still mind boggling these guys thought CBS was just going to let it slide.
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I don't even.... Wow. That's some balls.
 
Well, the studio Axanar Productions / Alec Peters bought with the Kickstarter funds is now... open for business.


nZr7uh4.jpg


The Axanar studio built with fan donations, is now officially a for profit facility available for rent. • /r/startrek
 
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