"Star Trek: Discovery" Renewed for Season 3

I just watched episode 5 of season 4 of disco very.
we have an understanding of what LOL means, something that is able to prompt involuntary laughter.
we need a similar code for something that prompts an nonvoluntary statement that "this sucks!"

a really good writer can write an excellent story that encompasses all the woke stereotypes while still boldly exploring the human condition.
if you read, Terry Pratchett did that spectacularly in his Discworld .
I am still looking for a show that manages to push all the right woke buttons WHILE telling a finely crafted story, but so far disco is still in the 'INSTEAD of a great story' range.

example : a human female is currently host to a symbiote that shares the life of sequential hosts, cool, the hosts can be of either available sex, the symbiote is not concerned, it goes with the flow.
streight up star trek, a trill. the human host is unadapted by nature to share the multigenerational, multi sexual outlook of the trill. but tries.

the human is biologically female, and is addressed by she her, which bothers her a lot and she requests to be addressed as they them.

NOT because of the nature of her changed symbiotic multilifetime viewpoint which is totally rational, but because she is woke and wants to be other than a girl so her totally gay boyfriend can love her.
the trill has NOTHING to do with it.
I would expect that she will get into some transgender action now that her boyfriend is back.
except that would lead to transphobia because the technology exists to actually do it properly, which would imply that the current trans folk are inferior, which must in no way be implied.

I do not believe that the woke cannot write good stories, but the folk who EDIT the stories by woke guidelines seem incapable of differentiating between good and bad and strictly adhere to woke guidelines regardless of the quality, and it shows.
 
honegod said:
I just watched episode 5 of season 4 of disco very.
we have an understanding of what LOL means, something that is able to prompt involuntary laughter.
we need a similar code for something that prompts an nonvoluntary statement that "this sucks!"

a really good writer can write an excellent story that encompasses all the woke stereotypes while still boldly exploring the human condition.
if you read, Terry Pratchett did that spectacularly in his Discworld .
I am still looking for a show that manages to push all the right woke buttons WHILE telling a finely crafted story, but so far disco is still in the 'INSTEAD of a great story' range.

example : a human female is currently host to a symbiote that shares the life of sequential hosts, cool, the hosts can be of either available sex, the symbiote is not concerned, it goes with the flow.
streight up star trek, a trill. the human host is unadapted by nature to share the multigenerational, multi sexual outlook of the trill. but tries.

the human is biologically female, and is addressed by she her, which bothers her a lot and she requests to be addressed as they them.

NOT because of the nature of her changed symbiotic multilifetime viewpoint which is totally rational, but because she is woke and wants to be other than a girl so her totally gay boyfriend can love her.
the trill has NOTHING to do with it.
I would expect that she will get into some transgender action now that her boyfriend is back.
except that would lead to transphobia because the technology exists to actually do it properly, which would imply that the current trans folk are inferior, which must in no way be implied.

I do not believe that the woke cannot write good stories, but the folk who EDIT the stories by woke guidelines seem incapable of differentiating between good and bad and strictly adhere to woke guidelines regardless of the quality, and it shows.
Click to expand...

I tapped out long ago... its just a really bad show.

The problem with modern writers in general for all mediums is simple. Back in the day writers where taught (or learned) that first you write a good story, or a good character in a draft. Then you refine your draft 2 or 3 times first fixing holes, then working on pacing and making the story engaging... then in a final draft (or close too) you read your own work and look for themes and enhance them where it makes sense. (as in doesn't Fuck up your story or characters).

Modern writers all seem to be writing in the exact opposite manner has been proven successful for all of human history. Molding stories around themes always comes off as ham fisted. It doesn't matter what the theme is woke or not... if you start off looking to stamp it on the story before there is one, its going to suck.
 
ChadD said:
you refine your draft
Click to expand...
until it meets editorial standards.
currently the standards set are high on telling the woke message
but low on exploring WHY the woke message is important.
shucks, they don't even bother telling the message, they assume we already understand it,
so it just sits there, festering, with nowhere to go and nothing to do.

focussing on and exploring the message could be fertile ground
except it requires that the message be looked at from a different perspective,
which is (evidently) forbidden by woke guidelines.
 
honegod said:
until it meets editorial standards.
currently the standards set are high on telling the woke message
but low on exploring WHY the woke message is important.
shucks, they don't even bother telling the message, they assume we already understand it,
so it just sits there, festering, with nowhere to go and nothing to do.

focussing on and exploring the message could be fertile ground
except it requires that the message be looked at from a different perspective,
which is (evidently) forbidden by woke guidelines.
Click to expand...

Its always been taboo to ask why, even back when most of this community resided on tumbler, any attempt to ask them why was and still is met with hostility.
 
Aireoth said:
taboo to ask why
Click to expand...
where TOS got it right.
the white/black versus the black/white folks episode, for example, showed why the black vs white silliness is fundamentally stupid.
after showing us black and white being brilliant together.
 
i know some folks around here who are familiar with me think i just go around defending the "sjws" and "wokeness." however i'll say this right now... star trek discovery is a complete fucking mess of ham-fisted, clumsy, poorly-written wokeness. the CONTENT of the message is fine, but holy fucking shit, where tng or ds9 or voy had the same messages but got them across intelligently and thoughtfully (for the most part,) discovery feels like a drawing made by a toddler with a fistful of crayons. same with st picard for that matter. if it can make ME cringe... they're doing it wrong.

i'm pretty sure that star trek is literally dead forever.
 
Aireoth said:
met with hostility
Click to expand...
so it stews in the unquestionable hate that is its base.

in this season I am seeing a genuine attempt to recognise and move away from that hate, to look at what might happen without it.
they are still stuck with woke writers though so progress is painfully slow.
but the potential is there, they introduced a new smart white male who although, of course, obviously, is inherently evil, might have some redeeming qualities.
 
So no new full season of Venture Brothers, no Betty White, and instead is forced upon us a more of a show that's outstyled by a Seth McFarlane cosplay.
 
Teenyman45 said:
So no new full season of Venture Brothers, no Betty White, and instead is forced upon us a more of a show that's outstyled by a Seth McFarlane cosplay.
Click to expand...

I can’t wait for March. My kids are almost to season 2 of the Orville and they love it. I clip out things here and there… and the entire blue dude episode, but the stories are great. A decent plot and character growth - that’s all we need.
 
honegod said:
until it meets editorial standards.
currently the standards set are high on telling the woke message
but low on exploring WHY the woke message is important.
shucks, they don't even bother telling the message, they assume we already understand it,
so it just sits there, festering, with nowhere to go and nothing to do.

focussing on and exploring the message could be fertile ground
except it requires that the message be looked at from a different perspective,
which is (evidently) forbidden by woke guidelines.
Click to expand...
It's subconcious conditioning. There isn't a "why". It's not a debate, or an argument. They put the moving images on the screen and you either accept what they're trying to sell you, or you turn it off altogether and try to help other people understand what's happening.

The point is to gaslight everybody into a different set of values. That's why "the message" only goes one way in Hollywood, and that the volume of that message has been cranked to 11 in the last five years.

One day you guys might wake up and find out that this is the purpose of Hollywood. Agenda first, entertainment second. It's been this way forever. Go back and watch Casablanca with a geopolitical understanding of movie's context and then see the themes being pushed. Then pay attention to who produces these movies and who's political goals are being advanced by injecting their "message". A glorious pattern emerges and from there you either accept what you're up against or you go back to VR porn.
 
I have to say, this season is the worst. Boring, So woke it smells like rotten woke. I'm also tired of Captain whispers loud all the time. The show is so empty, the stories are just bad.
 
I watched the first 3 seasons, not bothering with this one. Why is every fucking season centered around some universe destroying threat? Is that what this season is also about? Can we not get back to the old trek formula like in tng, tos etc? Do we have to have season long storylines nobody gives a shit about?
 
Chris_B said:
I watched the first 3 seasons, not bothering with this one. Why is every fucking season centered around some universe destroying threat? Is that what this season is also about? Can we not get back to the old trek formula like in tng, tos etc? Do we have to have season long storylines nobody gives a shit about?
Click to expand...
In the older series, especially DS9, there were season-long or longer storylines, but they were written in such a way as to showcase the growth of individual characters. We see Sisko "grow a beard" in the context of everything a years long war entails. We know that the Dominion is building an empire throughout several seasons, but the storylines are still largely episodic. The background changes in the universe are just that, and in many ways it adds to the suspense as we see glimpses of interspecies tensions throughout each season, culminating in all-out war in the later seasons, but without the need to force every episode to advance that plot.

Modern television storytelling seems to be centered on season-long story arcs, but I often suspect that those arcs are not thought out beforehand. This leads to a disjointed narrative, often aided by non-linear storytelling, that never seems to resolve any of the loose threads that are dangled out there with each new episode. This style is at odds with episodic storytelling, though contrary to current opinion, as evidenced by shows like The Orville, there is still a market for episodic storytelling with a focus on character development, without losing sight of a larger, ever-evolving world in the background.
 
Chris_B said:
I watched the first 3 seasons, not bothering with this one. Why is every fucking season centered around some universe destroying threat? Is that what this season is also about? Can we not get back to the old trek formula like in tng, tos etc? Do we have to have season long storylines nobody gives a shit about?
Click to expand...
We need something in between. One of the things I disliked about that era of TV (not just in sci-fi) was the "magic reset" where characters would go through dramatic events in an episode... and never evolve from them or even reference them. I don't want to go back to exactly what the earlier Star Trek shows did — I want something that reflects both advancements in TV storytelling and the serial-friendly nature of streaming.

Oddly enough, a good example of this is Grace and Frankie. Many episodes could be self-contained like on a classic sitcom, but the character development and stories are constantly nudging forward. You can watch one episode or a whole season and still get something out of it.
 
Looking forward to watching Discovery. Amazon Prime losing Star Trek forced my hand to purchase Paramount Plus Premiere. At least it integrates well with Prime and my viewing experience isnt drastically changed
 
Chris_B said:
I watched the first 3 seasons, not bothering with this one. Why is every fucking season centered around some universe destroying threat? Is that what this season is also about? Can we not get back to the old trek formula like in tng, tos etc? Do we have to have season long storylines nobody gives a shit about?
Click to expand...
Season 4 is the same thing - a huge galactic level crisis.

I'm ready for Discovery to be done. I gave it 3 seasons to get better and it seems like it's actually getting worse in season 4 than it already was (a very low bar).

I look forward to Strange New Worlds. Planet of the week style format with only a soft season long serialization. If Discovery gets canceled, maybe they can give SNW more than 10 episodes a season so we can actually build some interesting character development.
 
Considering the big mystery in season 3 was "boy child cries because he lost his mommy and screws up all dilithium in the freaking galaxy" I'm curious how S4 can be worse. It's being pulled by one of my media management apps, so I'll watch a few, but S3 demonstrated pretty well that the writer's apparently don't have a solitary clue what makes good Trek, at least at a season arc level.
 
it is in fact worse.

What people refer to as woke is incredibly ham fisted, in and of itself nothing offends or bothers me. I loved Sense8 for example but it’s just shit writing. To the point of being detrimental.

I think I’m done, Picard was an absolute shit show, Discovery has had a couple of highlights and I’d have been down with it as the borg origin but now it’s just parody.

The gas cannons on the bridge are really winding me up too. The lens flares weren’t enough so now we have to have high school production design.
 
Iratus said:
it is in fact worse.

What people refer to as woke is incredibly ham fisted, in and of itself nothing offends or bothers me. I loved Sense8 for example but it’s just shit writing. To the point of being detrimental.

I think I’m done, Picard was an absolute shit show, Discovery has had a couple of highlights and I’d have been down with it as the borg origin but now it’s just parody.

The gas cannons on the bridge are really winding me up too. The lens flares weren’t enough so now we have to have high school production design.
Click to expand...
This woke stuff was natural in the old Star Trek shows. In this it is front and center and shoved down our throats. I can't stand it was one of the main reason I could stand the 4th season.
 
I can’t believe I just watched an episode about the ship’s computer undergoing a counseling session. The writers of Measure of a Man would be aghast at this crap. I am about as loyal a Star Trek viewer as they come and I think I’m ready to tap out.

At least Lower Decks is simple fun.
 
sphinx99 said:
I can’t believe I just watched an episode about the ship’s computer undergoing a counseling session. The writers of Measure of a Man would be aghast at this crap. I am about as loyal a Star Trek viewer as they come and I think I’m ready to tap out.

At least Lower Decks is simple fun.
Click to expand...
I do enjoy me some Lower Decks.
 
sphinx99 said:
I can’t believe I just watched an episode about the ship’s computer undergoing a counseling session. The writers of Measure of a Man would be aghast at this crap. I am about as loyal a Star Trek viewer as they come and I think I’m ready to tap out.

At least Lower Decks is simple fun.
Click to expand...

It may not have been great, but let's not pretend TNG was always beyond reproach. "Emergence" is probably the most directly comparable TNG episode, and that had the Ent-D computer daydreaming about being a train or something while popping out some new life form. (Also a lot of other S7 dreck like "Masks" and "Sub Rosa", plus the horrors that are some of the S1 episodes).
 
BlueLineSwinger said:
It may not have been great, but let's not pretend TNG was always beyond reproach. "Emergence" is probably the most directly comparable TNG episode, and that had the Ent-D computer daydreaming about being a train or something while popping out some new life form. (Also a lot of other S7 dreck like "Masks" and "Sub Rosa", plus the horrors that are some of the S1 episodes).
Click to expand...
This is a fair point. Not every episode of the classic shows were winners. However, I'd take almost any TNG episode over anything STD has to offer. That being said, Voyager: Thresholds and the Enterprise finale are particularly bad and I'm not sure Discovery has managed to sink that low.
vegeta535 said:
This woke stuff was natural in the old Star Trek shows. In this it is front and center and shoved down our throats. I can't stand it was one of the main reason I could stand the 4th season.
Click to expand...
I think people confuse the terms "woke" and "progressive". The earlier shows were progressive, not woke. Modern "wokeness" is an entirely different animal. The approach to classic Trek was very different. Two opposing ideologies or viewpoints were often presented and the viewer allowed to make their own decisions and the characters in the narrative had to live with their choices. Granted, it was always somewhat left leaning but the ideology of the show worked in the narrative construct of the show in which scarcity and many human problems were eliminated through technology, education and societal change.

In contrast, wokeness propagates a message or idea and that is reinforced by simply berating the opposing viewpoint. The lack of self-awareness of the writing staff and their lack of experience shows as it comes across in contrived plots and ridiculous dialog. The modern shows are made even worse because the grounded nature of classic Trek shows has been discarded for lens flares and identity politics. Rather than treat everyone as equals, women and the alphabet people are not propped up through character arcs or carefully crafted stories or character moments. Instead, they tear down other groups and characters by making them inept, weak and indecisive in order to make the favored group look better by comparison.

The classic example of how this is done badly is Star Trek Discovery. Michael Burnham is basically space Jesus and more of a Mary Sue than a Mary Sue. She never makes mistakes and when she does, she was mistaken. No man on the show is portrayed as competent or even a good person unless he's gay or some ethnicity other than white. This kind of nonsense wasn't needed with Ellen Ripley or Sarah Connor who stood with the male characters as equals but not through contrived means. It was done through believable character work and overcoming physical weakness or situations through determination and resourcefulness that can be believed within the narrative of the story.

In modern Trek, you can't do that. Picard has to be deconstructed and humiliated like Luke Skywalker in the Worst Jedi in order to prop up the female characters. Characters with absolutely zero depth. The modern writers seem to think descriptions about sexuality or race make a character and they don't. Characters in modern woke media do not go through the Hero's journey if they are female. They are almost always portrayed as perfect, even when this is so nonsensical that it becomes laughable.

Classic Trek was always progressive for its day, but it was never woke. That's why the progressive ideology felt natural. It wasn't usually in your face. That's not to say that there weren't hamfisted and awful attempts at progressive ideology or messaging for the day. There certainly are and I can point them out all day. That being said, the overall quality of the writing is far beyond what we have now. I can rewatch most classic Star Trek shows and episodes. I can't stomach Discovery or Picard. I tuned out of Lower Decks by the second episode.
 
Dan_D said:
This is a fair point. Not every episode of the classic shows were winners. However, I'd take almost any TNG episode over anything STD has to offer. That being said, Voyager: Thresholds and the Enterprise finale are particularly bad and I'm not sure Discovery has managed to sink that low.

I think people confuse the terms "woke" and "progressive". The earlier shows were progressive, not woke. Modern "wokeness" is an entirely different animal. The approach to classic Trek was very different. Two opposing ideologies or viewpoints were often presented and the viewer allowed to make their own decisions and the characters in the narrative had to live with their choices. Granted, it was always somewhat left leaning but the ideology of the show worked in the narrative construct of the show in which scarcity and many human problems were eliminated through technology, education and societal change.

In contrast, wokeness propagates a message or idea and that is reinforced by simply berating the opposing viewpoint. The lack of self-awareness of the writing staff and their lack of experience shows as it comes across in contrived plots and ridiculous dialog. The modern shows are made even worse because the grounded nature of classic Trek shows has been discarded for lens flares and identity politics. Rather than treat everyone as equals, women and the alphabet people are not propped up through character arcs or carefully crafted stories or character moments. Instead, they tear down other groups and characters by making them inept, weak and indecisive in order to make the favored group look better by comparison.

The classic example of how this is done badly is Star Trek Discovery. Michael Burnham is basically space Jesus and more of a Mary Sue than a Mary Sue. She never makes mistakes and when she does, she was mistaken. No man on the show is portrayed as competent or even a good person unless he's gay or some ethnicity other than white. This kind of nonsense wasn't needed with Ellen Ripley or Sarah Connor who stood with the male characters as equals but not through contrived means. It was done through believable character work and overcoming physical weakness or situations through determination and resourcefulness that can be believed within the narrative of the story.

In modern Trek, you can't do that. Picard has to be deconstructed and humiliated like Luke Skywalker in the Worst Jedi in order to prop up the female characters. Characters with absolutely zero depth. The modern writers seem to think descriptions about sexuality or race make a character and they don't. Characters in modern woke media do not go through the Hero's journey if they are female. They are almost always portrayed as perfect, even when this is so nonsensical that it becomes laughable.

Classic Trek was always progressive for its day, but it was never woke. That's why the progressive ideology felt natural. It wasn't usually in your face. That's not to say that there weren't hamfisted and awful attempts at progressive ideology or messaging for the day. There certainly are and I can point them out all day. That being said, the overall quality of the writing is far beyond what we have now. I can rewatch most classic Star Trek shows and episodes. I can't stomach Discovery or Picard. I tuned out of Lower Decks by the second episode.
Click to expand...
STD isn't even "woke" in what most that movement's (if it can be called a "movement") proponents would consider to be a positive. STD is performatively woke. It places most value in superficially demonstrating that it conforms to "woke" values by placing people of color, women, and LGBT+ characters in hero roles, while at times it tearing down members of other groups. It makes little effort in developing the motivations of its characters, who almost exclusively exist as emblems for an agenda. And in positing that these characters are virtually infallible simply because of their emblematic nature means progressive thought, discourse, and humanism is actually supressed. In a way, it's the anti-thesis of what "real" ST is about. It also sucks as a show, so there's that.

I define "woke" in its best form as being finely conscious that there are historical and current socio-political-cultural institutions, norms and constructs that unfairly de-favor (to put it mildly) certain groups. This concept as defined is a core part of what "real" ST is about, in my view -- and there are tons of great STOS, TNG, DS9, and Enterprise heart-and-mind changing episodes that handle this aptly and poignantly (and more subversively) than anything STD does.
 
Last edited:
Dan_D said:
I can rewatch most classic Star Trek shows and episodes. I can't stomach Discovery or Picard. I tuned out of Lower Decks by the second episode.
Click to expand...

Have to agree. They need to get rid of Kurtzman. They’re messing up worse than DC. At least Star Wars is being rehabilitated with the TV.

There are a couple of episodes of Discovery
that were very good but that’s it in 4 years. Picard was trash, bad enough to make me feel poorly for Patrick Stewart. Can’t do upper decks, animated has never done it for me.

I’d vote for Ronald D Moore to take over all of it. Put a bullet in Discovery, but maybe go back to the period in another show, try and save Picard and give the new Pike series a good crack with some old school single episode stuff. So sick of everything having to be the end of the universe.
 
I would just love to see more post dominion war stuff. Need more Sovereign class! I love Trek enough that as painful as it was I watch Discovery .. The time jump thing hurts my brain even more though. Moving too far away from the times that made Star Trek great!

Picard was fun for nostalgia but the Mass Effect rip off and writing was rough. Sup JL!
 
Iratus said:
I’d vote for Ronald D Moore to take over all of it. Put a bullet in Discovery, but maybe go back to the period in another show, try and save Picard and give the new Pike series a good crack with some old school single episode stuff. So sick of everything having to be the end of the universe.
Click to expand...
God no. That wouldn't be a good idea either. If he took over, we'd have another Battlestar Galactica. I know this goes against the grain, but that was a shit show. Awful pacing, bad writing and horrendous character arcs. Everyone on the ship was a raging alcoholic. Everyone on the ship had the exact same character flaws. Everyone was trying to fuck over everyone else or just fuck them. Plus, at least half the crew were all cylons. Of course, cylons were undetectable but had super strength, etc. The women were basically written like men and the men were whiny indecisive bitches. I suppose it was a forerunner of woke television and didn't even know it.

Don't get me started on some of the other aspects of the show's narrative that were terrible.

I have a theory: When Brannon Braga and Ronald D. Moore were working together, they reigned each other's worst ideas in and they were a solid combination. Separately, they were both awful. Voyager had a marked decline in writing and narrative quality compared to Deep Space Nine. Projects he'd been involved in up until The Orville were also horrendous. You know how Voyager always leaned on time travel? Yeah, that was Braga's influence. He even had a short lived sci-fi show about time travel some years later. Ronald D. Moore did fuck all until Outlander. Everything he was involved in basically went no where, or was shit. I can't speak to Outlander as I haven't seen it.
Fifliffl said:
Picard was fun for nostalgia but the Mass Effect rip off and writing was rough. Sup JL!
Click to expand...
If you want to get technical, almost all writing is derivative of what came before it. That being said, they were way too on the nose with the "plot" of Picard.

AI destroys/harvests organic life in the galaxy every 200,000 years - (Mass Effect's plot exactly, but the cycles are shorter, but were referenced as having been longer in the past.)
Mechanical creature that does this is an obvious Call of Cthulhu rip off. It's basically Cyber Cthulhu.
Human/Androids clone or created from single cells (ugh...) is basically a rip off of the Battlestar Galactica reboot's human Cylon hybrids. They are also very similar to the Geth.
The small civilian ship and small crew of specialists (and degenerates) is by itself not an awful concept, but an odd one from Star Trek. It serves as the Normandy or Serenity of the story.

And let's not forget the Last Jedi treatment for Seven of Nine and Picard.

I really could go on and on about why Picard was a shit show and why it was worse than Discovery. Alex Kurtzman and company need to go. It's as simple as that. To be clear, it's not because Star Trek has become darker or more action focused that I have a problem with. The issue is that the quality of the writing is basically in the toilet. It's amateur hour at Bad Reboot and this is a good example of why people should be hired on the merits of their skills, ability and experience first. There is nothing wrong with a little new blood in the writers room, but why you would hire anyone but veteran writers of the genre for a flagship franchise like Star Trek is beyond me. It's a recipe for what we are getting.
 
Yeah, any respect I had for Ronnie D.'s writing skill died with Battlestar Gallactica. A show which became a who is the Cylon of the Week drama show with the politics of the day tossed in, badly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan_D
like this
They didn't cancel this show yet?

Hoping that CBS sells the franchise to someone that knows what they are doing but I fear that they've destroyed the value of it so much in the last 5 years, the price of the IP is in the utter toilet and there would be no point in letting it go.

It's a shame - I doubt we'll see any Star Trek IP for at least another 5-7 years depending on what happens to CBS/Paramount as their financials are also in the toilet. Might be looking at another MGM situation where a big tech company comes and snaps them up but this takes time and I doubt it will solve the absolute bankrupt writing that has plagued Discovery and Picard.
 
ComputerBox34 said:
They didn't cancel this show yet?

Hoping that CBS sells the franchise to someone that knows what they are doing but I fear that they've destroyed the value of it so much in the last 5 years, the price of the IP is in the utter toilet and there would be no point in letting it go.

It's a shame - I doubt we'll see any Star Trek IP for at least another 5-7 years depending on what happens to CBS/Paramount as their financials are also in the toilet. Might be looking at another MGM situation where a big tech company comes and snaps them up but this takes time and I doubt it will solve the absolute bankrupt writing that has plagued Discovery and Picard.
Click to expand...
I’m honestly thinking Disney will end up buying the Star Trek franchise. With Viacom no more and CBS being bought and split and rejoined every other month it’s bound to happen.
 
Elon buys the franchise and lets fans elect the writers.
and figures out how to let us pay for production by buying SpaceX stock.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Madoc
like this
Dan_D said:
God no. That wouldn't be a good idea either. If he took over, we'd have another Battlestar Galactica. I know this goes against the grain, but that was a shit show. Awful pacing, bad writing and horrendous character arcs. Everyone on the ship was a raging alcoholic. Everyone on the ship had the exact same character flaws. Everyone was trying to fuck over everyone else or just fuck them. Plus, at least half the crew were all cylons. Of course, cylons were undetectable but had super strength, etc. The women were basically written like men and the men were whiny indecisive bitches. I suppose it was a forerunner of woke television and didn't even know it.

Don't get me started on some of the other aspects of the show's narrative that were terrible.

I have a theory: When Brannon Braga and Ronald D. Moore were working together, they reigned each other's worst ideas in and they were a solid combination. Separately, they were both awful. Voyager had a marked decline in writing and narrative quality compared to Deep Space Nine. Projects he'd been involved in up until The Orville were also horrendous. You know how Voyager always leaned on time travel? Yeah, that was Braga's influence. He even had a short lived sci-fi show about time travel some years later. Ronald D. Moore did fuck all until Outlander. Everything he was involved in basically went no where, or was shit. I can't speak to Outlander as I haven't seen it.

If you want to get technical, almost all writing is derivative of what came before it. That being said, they were way too on the nose with the "plot" of Picard.

AI destroys/harvests organic life in the galaxy every 200,000 years - (Mass Effect's plot exactly, but the cycles are shorter, but were referenced as having been longer in the past.)
Mechanical creature that does this is an obvious Call of Cthulhu rip off. It's basically Cyber Cthulhu.
Human/Androids clone or created from single cells (ugh...) is basically a rip off of the Battlestar Galactica reboot's human Cylon hybrids. They are also very similar to the Geth.
The small civilian ship and small crew of specialists (and degenerates) is by itself not an awful concept, but an odd one from Star Trek. It serves as the Normandy or Serenity of the story.

And let's not forget the Last Jedi treatment for Seven of Nine and Picard.

I really could go on and on about why Picard was a shit show and why it was worse than Discovery. Alex Kurtzman and company need to go. It's as simple as that. To be clear, it's not because Star Trek has become darker or more action focused that I have a problem with. The issue is that the quality of the writing is basically in the toilet. It's amateur hour at Bad Reboot and this is a good example of why people should be hired on the merits of their skills, ability and experience first. There is nothing wrong with a little new blood in the writers room, but why you would hire anyone but veteran writers of the genre for a flagship franchise like Star Trek is beyond me. It's a recipe for what we are getting.
Click to expand...

Fully agree with almost everything in this post!! The reboot of BattleStar Galactica was terrible over all. The first season was decent, but, it declined every season after that. The Cylons were ridiculous, the story arcs with them were stupid beyond belief.

I didn't enjoy Picard either.
 
ComputerBox34 said:
They didn't cancel this show yet?

Hoping that CBS sells the franchise to someone that knows what they are doing but I fear that they've destroyed the value of it so much in the last 5 years, the price of the IP is in the utter toilet and there would be no point in letting it go.

It's a shame - I doubt we'll see any Star Trek IP for at least another 5-7 years depending on what happens to CBS/Paramount as their financials are also in the toilet. Might be looking at another MGM situation where a big tech company comes and snaps them up but this takes time and I doubt it will solve the absolute bankrupt writing that has plagued Discovery and Picard.
Click to expand...
There were rumors that CBS was actually looking to sell off Star Trek, but as you pointed out CBS probably wants way too much for it. The brand has been massively devalued thanks to Kurtzman's efforts. The writing problems are a symptom of a larger problem in Hollywood, so no. Simply selling the franchise to some other company wouldn't necessarily solve the problem.
 
The writing on the past couple of episodes has been juvenile, like it was written for middle school students and overly expository. I love when they asked if they want Earth to rejoin the federation and they said yes. No shit, Sherlock. And wasn't the episode before that when they lost gravity on the bridge and everyone flew out of their seat into the air and stopped to float ... yeah, that wouldn't happen.

harmattan said:
STD isn't even "woke" in what most that movement's (if it can be called a "movement") proponents would consider to be a positive. STD is performatively woke. It places most value in superficially demonstrating that it conforms to "woke" values by placing people of color, women, and LGBT+ characters in hero roles, while at times it tearing down members of other groups. It makes little effort in developing the motivations of its characters, who almost exclusively exist as emblems for an agenda. And in positing that these characters are virtually infallible simply because of their emblematic nature means progressive thought, discourse, and humanism is actually supressed. In a way, it's the anti-thesis of what "real" ST is about. It also sucks as a show, so there's that.

I define "woke" in its best form as being finely conscious that there are historical and current socio-political-cultural institutions, norms and constructs that unfairly de-favor (to put it mildly) certain groups. This concept as defined is a core part of what "real" ST is about, in my view -- and there are tons of great STOS, TNG, DS9, and Enterprise heart-and-mind changing episodes that handle this aptly and poignantly (and more subversively) than anything STD does.
Click to expand...

I don't know if this is true or not philosophically, but it sounds well thought out.
 
Wait wait wait, so first the Warp Nacelles can detact and still work, and now earth isn't part of the federation anymore?

Jesus.
 
Aireoth said:
Wait wait wait, so first the Warp Nacelles can detact and still work, and now earth isn't part of the federation anymore?

Jesus.
Click to expand...
That's what I mean about written for middle schoolers. It doesn't take a 30th century scientist to ask why would nacelles be more efficient being detached than attached.

The show is garbage and I watch it just because it's the only thing Trek that is new and with the hope there are at least a few minutes of good TV in there.

Another thing is I'm absolutely tired of the holographic interfaces they use. No human would work with their hands in the air like that and it would not be better than having a console to work on.
 
Aireoth said:
Wait wait wait, so first the Warp Nacelles can detact and still work, and now earth isn't part of the federation anymore?

Jesus.
Click to expand...
The detached warp nacelles serve no practical purpose as far as I can tell other than to make for a distinct visual departure from prior designs. Honestly, that's not anywhere near as bad as the invisible mushroom network connecting all things that allows instant teleportation anywhere, though at least it presented us with one of the few thought-provoking storylines in the entirety of the series so far (I'm talking about the debate over exploiting sentient life for convenience - not what happens when you give a starship one of the powers of Q).

The Federation fell apart sometime after all the dilithium (except maybe a little here and there for the convenience of lazy writers) exploded for some reason that was so poorly written that I forgot what it was.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top