Star Citizen Selling A $900 Ship

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Derangel said:
Sorry I was getting ready to leave for work when I posted and forgot to edit around what I was replying to. I’m talking about how you said it is supposed to be viewed differently from buying traditional virtual items. Both games being so insanely bloated and CIG expanding so quickly that they constantly need larger and larger sums of money does not make what they are doing less of a pay-to-win scheme or any different from the shitty, predatory, practices companies like EA and Activision engage in on a routine basis.
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Cool, I get caught up all the time and have to go back and restate things. We're only human.

So I'll say it like this. I play World of Tanks and World of Warships. I have bought "Premium" items in both games. For a long time, there were very few instances where a premium tank on WoT had better performance than it's counterpart non-premium tanks of the same tier, (and arguably nationality).

As an example, the Tier 8 Premium IS-6 was not better than a regular IS-3 when the IS-3 is fully researched, no pay to win there. That has started to change over the last year or so. These days the Premiums are frequently superior vehicles in comparison to their non-premium contemporaries.

Now we have the ship I bought in my starter package for Star Citizen. First, up until the time I uninstalled, waiting on release, I was mostly flying alone, no PvP, no competition, it was me doing the three or so missions, or just flying around experiencing the game and some of the things that were up and running. For instance, I went flying looking for salvage and I actually found some. I was giddy, went back to port, and had no vendor I could find where I could sell said salvage. A let down to be sure, but I'm not seeing any pay to win here. Now as I understand it, there is a little more to do these days, but I'm thinking that overall, the game remains more in a pay to experience state, than any possibility of pay to compete and I don't think winning anything is possible yet.

The last EA or Activision game I bought was The Division (Ubisoft), and I didn't see any pay to win there, if I remember right it was pay to look good and that was it. The last new title I tried was Apex Legends (EA), and it has been free to play with options to buy pretty shit and I have, out of appreciation for a mostly well run free game, I felt it was worth it to support what they had done.

I was looking forward to Anthem and I had heard a lot of people saying it would be bad because it was by EA. I was tempted to try it and got side tracked by Apex Legends. Yesterday I saw a video with a guy berating EA complaining about the loot system. "Just give players their damned loot" he said. Now I haven't played the game. I don't know the extent and details of this "issue". But I do know that I played Diablo2 for many years, hundreds, thousands of hours, I can't say. But I played the hell out of that game and I never ever got a Wind Force Bow to drop, not once. I finally got one in a trade, but I never got one free and clear as a drop or through gambling. There were sets I never completed, like Natalia's, I never got that claw weapon. So I can't say what's wrong with Anthem's loot mechanic, but when the game has only been out a short time, I do wonder if the real problem is just spoiled needy people.

You give money to a developer knowing up front that the virtual items you are getting can't be used because the game isn't playable yet, and the developer tells you up front that you should think of your money spent as an investment and a donation.

I think you should take his word for it.
 
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Ebernanut said:
FTC doesn't care because there aren't any investors expecting a return, just suckers giving them money.
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Really?

You have that in writing somewhere? You know that for a fact?

So explain why this "filthy thief" has refunded people their "donations" when asked?

You don't think any of the people who donated to SC, did so expecting a finished game to play?

Or is it that you only think "suckers" donated their money expecting a game out of it?
 
lcpiper said:
Really?

You have that in writing somewhere? You know that for a fact?

So explain why this "filthy thief" has refunded people their "donations" when asked?

You don't think any of the people who donated to SC, did so expecting a finished game to play?

Or is it that you only think "suckers" donated their money expecting a game out of it?
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I will say this. Actually getting a refund for your donation isn't just as easy as asking for it. I have an LTI package (OG backer?) anyway I asked for a refund a couple years ago and got shut down. So now we wait and see what happens. If it fails well lesson learned. If it succeeds I guess I need to get a new flight stick set. ;)
 
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Wrecked Em said:
The real question is why wouldn't they offer it? The worst that can happen is that nobody buys it, but think of the alternative.
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The problem is that this sort of halo model pricing normalizes charging, say, 100$ for other lesser ships... Which is yanking the arse out of the chicken to begin with. They arent aiming to make money off of this ship directly - it only exists to make the other stuff appear cheap by juxtaposition.
 
M76 said:
And the necromancer of the week award goes to...
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Hey now, this is important stuff!

we need the occasional update on game progress, I expect this to be an annual feature for at least the next 10 years. always good for a laugh.
 
motomonkey said:
Hey now, this is important stuff!

we need the occasional update on game progress, I expect this to be an annual feature for at least the next 10 years. always good for a laugh.
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Then why not create a new news item about the game ? Like about the fact that after 7 years of hard development they finally managed to get the female player character implemented?
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I think this thread has developed faster and is closer to gold release than this "game".
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Are you kidding me? This game is ready to go Gold. Ther3e's tons of bug-free content!

Check pout this incredible amount of things to do in game...like spending 20 minutes being bored flying from spawn to ArcCorp in Quantum Travel



These idiots are getting exactly what they want - realistic boredom, so they can have time to play their favorite Pay To Win tablet games, while they're not playing their favorite Pay To Win Space Sim.

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And I hope you don't mind our High Fidelity Physics Engine, which continues to eject players and other objects from inside their ships to this very day.

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And check out these hot dance moves from the new AI they've added :

https://i.imgur.com/NRrnNXZ.mp4

FIDELITY+++++
 
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Normally I wouldn't get involved in a thread like this, but lets try NOT to necro things in the News section. There is already a well populated thread in the PC Games subsection discussing Star Citizen. It is hundreds of pages long with every opinion expressed in this thread and more. So please, lets not thread necro from 2015. Lock, please.
 
RanceJustice said:
Normally I wouldn't get involved in a thread like this, but lets try NOT to necro things in the News section. There is already a well populated thread in the PC Games subsection discussing Star Citizen. It is hundreds of pages long with every opinion expressed in this thread and more. So please, lets not thread necro from 2015. Lock, please.
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I dunno, they havn't closed thread in PC Gaming, even though the players have been paving over and ignoring it's huge faults for years.

And they still sell new ships that cost almost a thousand dollars, right?

I think there's still more than enough for us to comment on t the True Believers of this worthless religion, don't you? And there's no better place to do that than a Front Page news post about overpriced ships.
 
I think calling out Cloud Imperium Games is a good thing. Wish Kyle was around to give it the Phaeton treatment. (But really it's software so how could he.).
 
whateverer said:
I dunno, they havn't closed thread in PC Gaming, even though the players have been paving over and ignoring it's huge faults for years.

And they still sell new ships that cost almost a thousand dollars, right?

I think there's still more than enough for us to comment on t the True Believers of this worthless religion, don't you? And there's no better place to do that than a Front Page news post about overpriced ships.
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Both "sides" of the debate on the title are present there. Saying openly "There aren't enough people who shit on the game in its thread, so I'd like to repurpose a news post from 2015 to do so in the hopes people who share my opinion will come here" is not, to my understanding how the News section is supposed to work.

Grimlaking said:
I think calling out Cloud Imperium Games is a good thing. Wish Kyle was around to give it the Phaeton treatment. (But really it's software so how could he.).
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You can "call them out" in the existing thread in PC gaming, if you like.
 
RanceJustice said:
Normally I wouldn't get involved in a thread like this, but lets try NOT to necro things in the News section. There is already a well populated thread in the PC Games subsection discussing Star Citizen. It is hundreds of pages long with every opinion expressed in this thread and more. So please, lets not thread necro from 2015. Lock, please.
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Until either the game is released, or EODetroit pays me the $3,000 he owes me over betting that SQ42 was going to come out literally 4 years ago, I'm going to keep necroing it every 6-12 months.

The fact that SQ42 was supposed to be out 4 years ago and still isn't is news. Get over it.
 
Lizard Testes said:
Until either the game is released, or EODetroit pays me the $3,000 he owes me over betting that SQ42 was going to come out literally 4 years ago, I'm going to keep necroing it every 6-12 months.

The fact that SQ42 was supposed to be out 4 years ago and still isn't is news. Get over it.
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I don't believe that the entire forum should be affected because you believe you have a personal score to settle with someone else - again, not a proper use of the News section. An ongoing grievance against a game much less a single person on the forum is not news. Even at its "best" (and I use that term very loosely) its a "water still wet" situation. You don't see me or anyone else bumping a years old article about a title's launch, without adding to anything aside from "Game X still using horrible microtransactions!" simply because I don't like it, right?
 
lcpiper said:
You give money to a developer knowing up front that the virtual items you are getting can't be used because the game isn't playable yet, and the developer tells you up front that you should think of your money spent as an investment and a donation.

I think you should take his word for it.
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Crowd funding is not an investment. The ONLY time crowd funding is an investment is when its on a platform like Fig where you specifically invest in projects with the promise of returns on that investment if the game does well. Typical crowd funding is either a donation (when there is no incentive involved beyond some kind of "thank you") or effectively a pre-order. You will never see a return on giving projects money through Kickstarter or other platforms. If the product is released you will receive the tier you paid for (hopefully) and that's it. If CIG is telling people that they are "investing" in SC and SQ42 they are out-right lying.
 
Derangel said:
Crowd funding is not an investment. The ONLY time crowd funding is an investment is when its on a platform like Fig where you specifically invest in projects with the promise of returns on that investment if the game does well. Typical crowd funding is either a donation (when there is no incentive involved beyond some kind of "thank you") or effectively a pre-order. You will never see a return on giving projects money through Kickstarter or other platforms. If the product is released you will receive the tier you paid for (hopefully) and that's it. If CIG is telling people that they are "investing" in SC and SQ42 they are out-right lying.
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Maybe you just woke up on the wrong side of the bed, or read half a sentence and had to speak out ignoring all context. I can not say which. But You are taking one word literally without understanding the context of it's use. If you were ignorant of the circumstances surrounding the Pledge Store Items, then I would understand and cut you some slack. But you are not ignorant of the circumstances, so if you detect a little snarkiness you can rest assured that it's intentional.

I think you know full well that I did not use the word investment in a fiscally literal sense. It's a donation, it's always been a donation, Cloud Imperium Games has never portrayed such transactions as anything more than a donation with benefits. Their website for the Store is called the Pledge Store because the purchases are "pledges" of limited financial support. I never suggested that any "investment" would bring financial returns.

So if you can manage to get bent out of shape over something real, by all means, bring it up. But claiming that I intended meaning that I did not intend won't get you anything nice. I can't even believe that you went down this rabbit hole to begin with.
 
lcpiper said:
Maybe you just woke up on the wrong side of the bed, or read half a sentence and had to speak out ignoring all context. I can not say which. But You are taking one word literally without understanding the context of it's use. If you were ignorant of the circumstances surrounding the Pledge Store Items, then I would understand and cut you some slack. But you are not ignorant of the circumstances, so if you detect a little snarkiness you can rest assured that it's intentional.

I think you know full well that I did not use the word investment in a fiscally literal sense. It's a donation, it's always been a donation, Cloud Imperium Games has never portrayed such transactions as anything more than a donation with benefits. Their website for the Store is called the Pledge Store because the purchases are "pledges" of limited financial support. I never suggested that any "investment" would bring financial returns.

So if you can manage to get bent out of shape over something real, by all means, bring it up. But claiming that I intended meaning that I did not intend won't get you anything nice. I can't even believe that you went down this rabbit hole to begin with.
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I misread what you said. Thought you said they were saying that the people pledging were investing, not that the developers were investing the money. The whole notation some people have about crowd funding being an "investment" in a game or project always rubs me the wrong way due to it being a gross misunderstanding of what crowd funding is. So my misunderstanding that a developer was making that claim set me off a bit.
 
Dullard said:
It was worth the necro to see the toilet ejection bug.

The game has been in development for years - they have a zero G toilet that doesn't work and ejects you into space.

Cause or effect?
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I think it's secretly a message from a dissatisfied worker. "We think you are all shits... so the toilet identifies the player as shit and ejects them into the cold of space as waste removal."
 
The toilet ejection bug just highlights the fact that the game has always had serious physics bugs - launching players, cargo, and even ships massive distances.

As they have added features, It's has resulted in all sorts of hilarious bugs, all because someone thought it might be a good idea to modify the physics system from an FPS engine (Crysis) for space flight, instead of building one from the ground-up. So objects are constantly colliding with things that aren't there, and get flung.

They will never fix the physics engine, so each bug has to be hacked-around.
 
whateverer said:
The toilet ejection bug just highlights the fact that the game has always had serious physics bugs - launching players, cargo, and even ships massive distances.

As they have added features, It's has resulted in all sorts of hilarious bugs, all because someone thought it might be a good idea to modify the physics system from an FPS engine (Crysis) for space flight, instead of building one from the ground-up. So objects are constantly colliding with things that aren't there, and get flung.

They will never fix the physics engine, so each bug has to be hacked-around.
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When they need another two years they will just switch engines and start over again.
 
RanceJustice said:
Normally I wouldn't get involved in a thread like this, but lets try NOT to necro things in the News section. There is already a well populated thread in the PC Games subsection discussing Star Citizen. It is hundreds of pages long with every opinion expressed in this thread and more. So please, lets not thread necro from 2015. Lock, please.
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Why not, if it's relevant and entertaining, and obviously, from the replies it's generating, it should be perfectly acceptable. this is, after all, the favorite dead horse to beat on the forum.
 
whateverer said:
Are you kidding me? This game is ready to go Gold. Ther3e's tons of bug-free content!

Check pout this incredible amount of things to do in game...like spending 20 minutes being bored flying from spawn to ArcCorp in Quantum Travel



These idiots are getting exactly what they want - realistic boredom, so they can have time to play their favorite Pay To Win tablet games, while they're not playing their favorite Pay To Win Space Sim.

View attachment 155628
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I was looking forward to the graphics until watching that. Is that max graphics? I hope not. It looks like some mid-tier gaming company making some old PS2 game, everything is placed in this theatrically stacked and pasted way. It has almost no atmosphere effects. The texture for a key point (storyline planet) is split right down the middle and you end up after QT exactly looking at it. The city was PS2 level graphics at best, terrible. Even the spaceport once you get out of the main corridor was starting to look pretty lackluster. Ship outside was nasty looked like old graphics.
This is a big letdown seeing that, had expected more polish after 6 gorillion years.
This also makes me even more impressed by what Hello Games/No Man's Sky has achieved. Far, far higher quality level, easier to jump on and play and better graphics to boot, in less time and a fraction of the budget. Plus an OGL based engine (until Vulkan today). SC should be on Vulkan but that's another few years down the drain..
 
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