Star Citizen Raised $148 Million from Fans, but Now It’s Raising Concerns

Megalith

Megalith

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Naturally, Star Citizen is spotlighted for an article discussing the pitfalls of crowdfunded titles. The game’s creator originally expected to raise only $4 million for the title, yet that number has grown to $148 million, and that financial progress has compelled the team to build a bigger and even greater game, keeping its timeframe for release a mystery. However, there seems to be a “journey rather than the destination” argument provided by some backers, who are perfectly content with just being able to play the game as it is being developed. The highest amount donated to Cloud Imperium Games is reportedly $10,000, and many people have contacted the studio to ask about giving even larger amounts.

…the gigantic sum of money has created issues for Star Citizen, which began with a modest goal of raising $500,000 in 2012. As the dollars have mounted, the ambitions of Cloud Imperium Games have grown, and the game’s official release has repeatedly been pushed back. Some gamers have demanded refunds. One even filed a formal complaint with the Los Angeles County district attorney’s office last year. “I’m already building the best game I can,” said Mr. Roberts, who acknowledged the bumps. “But imagine — the game I can build with $140 million is going to be very different to the one I could build with $10 million. If I can build a bigger and more robust experience, I will.”
 
It should be noted that Derek Smart, an expert in how to f*ck up a video game (see Battlecruiser series), explained over a year ago that Star Citizen was headed for disaster. I remember him saying something like "reminds me of what wrong with my own games."
 
Must be a slow news day when the NYtimes rehashes the state of Star Citizen. Wish I had 15k to throw away.
 
Sounds like they need to set a release date. finish what they have... and then work on expansions. If the game is truly good, then they would ultimately make more money to continue the work? right? right?
 
Youn said:
Should maybe finish the 4 million dollar game, then work on a sequal with the rest of the money if so desired
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This. They'll never finish if they keep moving the goal line. It'll be in perpetual development until the money runs out if they don't stick to a clearly defined vision (which they haven't because this Chris Roberts guy can't seem to settle on limitations in his 'game').
 
Megalith said:
However, there seems to be a “journey rather than the destination” argument provided by some backers, who are perfectly content with just being able to play the game as it is being developed. ”
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You know what I always wondered in the case of early-access games like this? What happens when the game is complete and you have been playing as it's been developed; you will have played everything a thousands times by the time the game is done and then what? "Oh, the game is complete now!" I can finally play it!" But yet, they have been playing it this whole time and pouring money into it for what seems like years now. I think if Chris and company don't have a release date by the end of the year, they're a lost cause. They didn't keep their ambitions in check when the money started flowing in, and these people are enabling it who continue to give them money. Grand Theft Auto 5 cost Rockstar $137 million to develop yet there is a entire world to play in online and offline; all-the-while taking 4 years to develop approximately with a approximate team of 1000 working on it. Star Citizen on the other hand has almost 350 team members across 4 studios, but this doesn't count contract work so the number could be around 500 and Star Citizon has been in development for 5 years (granted, the team wasn't this big at the beginning). So the argument could be made that if they hadn't fucking kept promising dates for features, and potentially just kept their mouth-shut then the game wouldn't be looked at as a fucking joke at this point. I remember being excited for it, but then that evaporated almost instantly when they had a free-to-play weekend I think about 6 months ago or so and the broken fucking mess I encountered was shockingly terrible. I mean, I couldn't believe this game had been in development as long as it has been. There is so much negative to say about this game that I am not even going to go further, but they have some serious problems and they are going to end up with only a handful of die-hard supporters at this rate the longer it takes to release the damn game.
 
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Eh, I got in for $35, I've played the dog fight enough to justify that. No wasted money in my mind, I've already gotten more hours out of it then some AAA titles in my steam list. That being said, I did drop another 150 for a larger ship and a ground vehicle, which launches in a few weeks actually. The planet addition will be the last MAJOR addition I think, everything else builds on existing systems they've already worked into the engine over the last year, I imagine it's about 18-20 months from launch but honestly I don't care. I've spent way more money on less fun so meh, I could care less. I could imagine the clans that got the 6k ships or whatever they cost being upset but hey, just like any other project, whatever you put money into might not pay out. It's people's own money, so I could care less how long it takes. But I've already gotten way more then my initial value into it so it's OK by me. Now if they just up and stopped tomorrow I'd be mad but they have been pretty clear for a while now what they are doing and progress in certain areas.
 
A cynical article, IMO, that's just capitalizing on some now very old sentiment.

There are far more Kickstarter project completions and good games than there are failures and bad games:

Banner Saga, Wasteland 2, Divinity: Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Kona, Dreamfall Chapters... and those are just ones that I invested in. And that's what crowd-funding is: Investing. You don't know that it's going to work out, and crowd-funded projects have at no time ever been described as a "sure bet" - not by Kickstarter and similar websites, and not by the developers making them. They have been advertised accurately, and the success-rate for them is very good, IMO.

I wish that crowd-funded projects were still getting more coverage by gaming media, because most of the best games of the past few years have come from crowd-funding, IMO, and many of the best-looking upcoming games are also coming from crowd funding: Wasteland 3, Pillars of Eternity 2, Divinity: Original Sin 2.


On the subject of Star Citizen, that game is not even taking particularly long to make, for what it is and is aiming to be. Having followed game development for 20 years, I'm not at all bothered with the time being taken to make Star Citizen, and I think that other people familiar with game development time schedules aren't, either. My impression is that criticisms seem to often come from people whose expectations are based on games that are formulaic and non-pioneering, use established engine technology, reuse assets, and have rotating teams to pump out iteration after iteration.
 
Vaulter98c said:
Eh, I got in for $35, I've played the dog fight enough to justify that. No wasted money in my mind, I've already gotten more hours out of it then some AAA titles in my steam list. That being said, I did drop another 150 for a larger ship and a ground vehicle, which launches in a few weeks actually. The planet addition will be the last MAJOR addition I think, everything else builds on existing systems they've already worked into the engine over the last year, I imagine it's about 18-20 months from launch but honestly I don't care. I've spent way more money on less fun so meh, I could care less. I could imagine the clans that got the 6k ships or whatever they cost being upset but hey, just like any other project, whatever you put money into might not pay out. It's people's own money, so I could care less how long it takes. But I've already gotten way more then my initial value into it so it's OK by me. Now if they just up and stopped tomorrow I'd be mad but they have been pretty clear for a while now what they are doing and progress in certain areas.
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No offense but that's an awful lot of justification for your spent money on a partial game. You said the same point three times over.

It's OK to feel cheated. :p
 
I feel like we're beating a dead horse at this point.

I'm hoping for success but aware that a crash and burn is almost inevitable.

I want to play this on my Vive.
 
As someone who has backed several Kickstarters, the ones that came closest to delivering the product described on schedule were the ones with well defined end goals. Those that let the project grow to fill the money pledged were the ones that had/are having the most problems delivering the product.

Star Citizen qualifies as the dictionary definition of a project growing to fill the money pledged. Without firm end goals, they will never finish the project.

Disclaimer - I have pitched a little money into this project. Quit downloading the frequent patches as the patch size resulted in needing a day or so to complete the download.
 
I agree with the other guys who say that they should complete the game to the original $4m budget. They have done well to raise so much investment, so they should be putting their supporters/customers first and delivering what they promised. then use the extra cash for DLC's, expansions or even a sequel.
 
zamardii12 said:
You know what I always wondered in the case of early-access games like this? What happens when the game is complete and you have been playing as it's been developed; you will have played everything a thousands times by the time the game is done and then what? "Oh, the game is complete now!" I can finally play it!" But yet, they have been playing it this whole time and pouring money into it for what seems like years now. I think if Chris and company don't have a release date by the end of the year, they're a lost cause. They didn't keep their ambitions in check when the money started flowing in, and these people are enabling it who continue to give them money. Grand Theft Auto 5 cost Rockstar $137 million to develop yet there is a entire world to play in online and offline; all-the-while taking 4 years to develop approximately. Star Citizen on the other hand has almost 350 team members across 4 studios, but this doesn't count contract work so the number could be around 500 and Star Citizon has been in development for 5 years (granted, the team wasn't this big at the beginning). So the argument could be made that if they hadn't fucking kept promising dates for features, and potentially just kept their mouth-shut then the game wouldn't be looked at as a fucking joke at this point. I remember being excited for it, but then that evaporated almost instantly when they had a free-to-play weekend I think about 6 months ago or so and the broken fucking mess I encountered was shockingly terrible. I mean, I couldn't believe this game had been in development as long as it has been. There is so much negative to say about this game that I am not even going to go further, but they have some serious problems and they are going to end up with only a handful of die-hard supporters at this rate the longer it takes to release the damn game.
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I ruined a couple games for myself that way, so now if I choose to back something I try it first, then maybe contribute and won't play it until it comes out.

I guess too it also really comes down to how we define 'released'. Is it really not released but 20million people are playing it? Is the version 1.00 the only difference?
 
I'll bet most of the money has been spent on stupid shit that isn't related to the game. One day we will see this game and Mr. Roberts profiled on an episode of American Greed.
 
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RangerXML said:
Update to my set up with the release of the VKB Gunfighter, now to wait for the Modern Combat Grip (and 3.0 *tears up like that little boy above*):

BYlvGub.jpg
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I see a lot of people talking shit about this game, but to be honest, it seems like the development team has been very transparent with what's going on. The money keeps pouring into it for that reason. The Star Citizen community as a whole is very engaged. I think people just want to hate on something they don't understand and wish to see it fail. It's silly to me.
 
Sonicks said:
No offense but that's an awful lot of justification for your spent money on a partial game. You said the same point three times over.

It's OK to feel cheated. :p
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I've blown way more on drinks or strippers or smokes or movie tickets or any number of other things. $150-$200 isn't much money. I mean come on, this is [H], we've got people with $1500 CPU's and $1000 video cards.

I hit the hammer a million times because people always get in these threads like OMG WASTEZ MONEYZ!! NOOBZZ. There is only really one argument to make. Did you get your money's worth? I feel like I did, and like I've said, who cares what other people spend their money on. I'm sure you've wasted at least $35 bucks on something you didn't enjoy that lasted less then 30+ hours, but you don't see me going off like half these kids do every time this thread comes up.

Or my personal favorite, when they come up that it's just a pyramid scam. Well, no, because if someone already got out what they expected when they put in how is it a scam? You paid for a service and got one. Now if they never released anything over the last 5 years yea I could see that being a scam. But I already said that.

Honestly, I think it's one of the better examples of crowd funded games. Not the best by far, but how many games never came out and people never got shit? Or they'd release some broken crap that they called a game and you couldn't even enjoy it? Much better then that other game I bought into, I think it was called star marine too actually lol, it had the actual land shark in the preview video. Now that, that was a waste of money. But again, who gives a shit? I've spent more on a cigar then that game so meh, not like anyone is stealing anything

I'd say to all the haters out there, if you like space dog fights, buy in just the bare minimum to get to that point.

I feel like a lot of these butt hurt people don't ever play in the stock market. You want to talk about blowing or wasting money, be one day late on a good upswing and you'll see there's risk in anything when you put money down first.
 
So, educate me here...what does a modern AAA game generally cost to develop and release nowadays?

Just so a comparison can be made...
 
EchoWars said:
So, educate me here...what does a modern AAA game generally cost to develop and release nowadays?

Just so a comparison can be made...
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You've got to take into account not only the size of the project, but how many writers, programmers, etc. there are. It could vary from $50 Million, to upwards of $100+ Million, easily. What they amassed should bring a solid game, generally speaking. This is development alone. Most studios now budget for Marketing/Advertising as well, and those budgets can be the same as the development budgets.

Edit: Found a link to a better explanation, I know it's Kotaku, and we all hate that shit, but let's suck it up for a minute. I was basing my numbers off experience (used to code for a big name video game company that isn't around anymore).
 
trick_m0nkey said:
I see a lot of people talking shit about this game, but to be honest, it seems like the development team has been very transparent with what's going on. The money keeps pouring into it for that reason. The Star Citizen community as a whole is very engaged. I think people just want to hate on something they don't understand and wish to see it fail. It's silly to me.
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I'm new to this whole drama surrounding the game and when I read up on the idea behind Star Citizen I lit up with enthusiasm. If the game can be delivered as is being promised I would love it. I certainly am not rooting for it to fail by any means. The fact of the matter is though, and the reality of the situation, is that their appearance of transparency is to drum up more support/money. With the fan base that they have in just those people alone, they can make a great 4 million dollar game and develop it after that but they choose to change the goals every now and then because of the added financial stability.

There's something to be said of the determination of Chris Roberts to make this the great space faring game he wants it to be but there's a tipping point that I believe has been passed where the lofty goals and the time spent into it aren't heading towards a clearly defined end. Changing the graphics API so late in development is one recent example of this. Why change the graphics API when the game isn't finished? It's just adding to development time and feature changes like that can keep the game perpetually developed with no finished product.
 
Youn said:
Should maybe finish the 4 million dollar game, then work on a sequal with the rest of the money if so desired
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That would have been the smart play. Seems like the project didn't have realistic milestones/goal-lines or they trashed them over a night of hookers and blow.

It's very easy to get bogged down in feature glut once you have capital behind you. "Oh, this would be cool. That would be cool!"
 
as most know in the gaming section i'm not a huge fan of star citizen, but people seriously need to get the eff off this "there must be a release date" mentality.. this isn't the 90's anymore, games aren't finalized and sold on cd/dvd's and mostly ignored by the developers once it's released. thanks to the internet no longer being dialup speeds the need to finalize a game doesn't matter as long as the developers are able to show what they're working toward which in my opinion is where star citizen failed in the early parts of the game where i started losing interest in it. maybe things have changed and they're actually doing release maps so people know what content is coming but i haven't bothered to look into it and i won't comment further past that. there's other things the company is doing that i won't stand behind either but none of that effects the way Cloud Imperium Games is producing the game.

you could go further and look at other examples, Eve is a 14 year old game, it was technically final released in 2003.. now in 2017 Eve isn't even remotely the same game it was when it was "released" so whats the difference between what CCP's doing with Eve and what Cloud Imperium Games is doing with star citizen?

how about World of Tanks? technically it was released 7 years ago yet they've added multiple games worth of content since it's "release". world of warships was "released" with basically 2 nations US and Japan, since it's release you now have German ships, Russian, French, more US and Japanese ships, map/gameplay reworks and other new content, so whats the difference here between what is being done in Star Citizen vs other games other than setting an arbitrary release date.

what because they didn't set and arbitrary release date that really has nothing to do with future content gives people an excuse to claim refunds or be pissed about how the games being developed? get the eff over it that's not how these types of games are developed anymore. instead you should be pissed about the cashcow developers that have stuck with the old fashion style of game releases that are basically releasing the same regurgitated garbage with a different name and same price every year.
 
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Seems like we get one of these threads/articles on an almost weekly basis now... :rolleyes:
 
I was in the game for about $200 2-3 years ago but lost alot of confidence a while ago. Managed to sell all my special LTI ships for a huge profit (bought a PS4 and a 2 games with the profit lol) and kept a $35 ship for myself just incase the game does turn out.
 
I'm starting to think the government should get involved in this thing, public safety and all that.
 
Pringle said:
Oh cool, man. Sounds like you made a wise invest....



woof :banghead:
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True, but, I've got a few buddies who only spent the $35 bundle, and now we can all fly in the same ship and do stuff together. If we had all split that 3 way we wouldn't have even have had enough to buy call of duty repeat #9 or whatever crap is shoveled out every 18 months to the tune of well over 100 million bucks.

It'll be really cool here next month once planets go live and we can do more mission types, or one of them can fly and the other tag along, then we'll have a support ship for pirate missions, or I can have both my manned turrets going at the same time plus main ship weapons and we can go into areas that a single ship wouldn't have faired well in, not to mention the PVP aspects having a multi-person crew ship brings to the table.

Show me another game coming out next month with real time planets where I can run missions from multiple planets to space and back, all live and in person, with total control, with multiple missions and buddies also in my ship, in a multiplayer persistent universe? Even in aphpa it beats out half the crap I play now lol

And you want to talk about slamming your face into a wall, lets talk about this trend with games and buying skins... How much do some people pay to get crappy skins for games like COD and CS and the such that add zero play to the game? For the price of a 5 man ship and ground vehicle and all that's added to my current gameplay I can't even come close to half that crap

Shit, I bet half the people I play against in LoL have paid more for skins then I have for Star Citizen. I mean come on, 20 and 30 bucks for one skin? On a toon you can't even guarantee you're gonna get to play?
 
I don't mind having spent $35 on it. I am amazed this thing is still going and there is so little gameplay to be had. Now and again I get into it and read a few updates of the project and just think, well, it's nuts.

My speculation is that they have been in over their head on technical problems they can't easily solve, but have to in order to deliver the vision. They can make awesome demos because it's small scale, but won't work in the large scale of the real game. I think they have incredible talent on board, but at some point the rubber has to meet the road more than it has. We don't need another fresh batch of ship models, we need the old ones to fly in that huge, wonderful, persistent universe.

Ah well, it's a grand experiment and either a really cool thing, or the final downfall for Roberts. I wish them well.
 
At some point he's got to draw the line. I don't expect him to develop a $50 million dollar game like most AAA titles. I also don't expect him to make a $140 million dollar game. I expect him to develop an $100 million dollar base game, a bunch of free DLC, expansions, support for patches for 5 years, and still have capital left over to keep his company going and developing new product.

At his current rate, he's got $148 million, but is developing what is a $300 millon dollar game that he will run out of money trying to support after a few years.
 
Verge said:
derp

These people who throw money away on kickstarter will be the same ones bitching when social security doesn't pay for their retirement.
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As someone who kickstarted it, the time this game came around, Kickstarter was pretty much brand new. There weren't any space sims out there, and a lot of us were craving the old days with freelancer, freespace, wing commander, etc.

Still, the first burn hurts the worst lol.
 
Haters gonna hate. I am in for the OG $35. What I see and have played so far is beyond promising. Try a free weekend sometime and check out the dogfighting.

Try it before you talk shit. I am hoping for the best here. True. I just get a feeling it will turn out well. We need a good space game ffs. I want to ride in a big ship attacking a space station.
 
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