Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

You just don't get it. Star Citizen is more than just a game. It's a lifestyle. A lifestyle of dreams. Just ask Roberts! In due time, you will all have digital slaves onboard of your digital spaceship, until you hit the server cap of 50.
 
Its funny after all this time there is no actual gameplay footage for SQ42 what so ever.
 
Software Engineer here, let me add my $0.02.

Alpha: All major gameplay systems implemented; significant work necessary to get all systems to work together. Feature re-works may occur based on testing.

Beta: First build considered "good enough" for public release. Changes can/will be made based on internal/external testing.

Essentially, in Alpha while most systems are implemented, they may be re-worked depending on how things interact.
 
Stockholm said:
You just don't get it. Star Citizen is more than just a game. It's a lifestyle. A lifestyle of dreams. Just ask Roberts! In due time, you will all have digital slaves onboard of your digital spaceship, until you hit the server cap of 50.
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This shit goes even further into the path of retarded kinks -one early star Citizen forum thread made the case whether they should add rape to the game

Oh, and they are so bored inside their Alpha they pay tens of millions yearly to help bugfix that they all have the spare time to write more Sexual Love Letters to Chris like this


In the last 500 years, the Fourth Stimpire has dominated four systems, which it has united into one starzone, Stimsis. The Fourth Stimpire has origins from the Ten Empire War in which 10 of the United Stimpires revolted against each rules. All empires except for the fourth swore freedom upon their citizens. There is no free speech in the Fourth Stimpire, and all self-controlled transportation has been made illegal without undergoing painful medical verification methods, in which arteries are severed without pain resistant, operated entirely by machines. The way they work claim to be the most hygenic and healthy way possible, but these machines often rub against pain points, causing great deals of pain to patients. The heart is then extracted from the body and placed into a glass grinding machine. Various energy centers are also dissected and replaced with dangerous transplants. After the painful, 52 hour surgical procedure, patients will then have to use a fused guidance tool, which pumps painful resistors into the body every 2 hours. The pain they have caused is so bad, the victim would freeze in a tense position. They would then collapse afterwards.
Sexual stimulation in any way within the grounds of the Fourth Stimpire is strictly prohibited, and anyone detected even touching their sexual organs will be subjected to a penectomy or if the offender was a female, they would then have a razor inserted into their ovaries. They would pump a blue solution into the womb until the stitchings burst. Offenders would also be forced to show their operated areas in public, and they would always harass and punch them to a pulp, against their will.
Otherwise, offenders would be tazed with the worst type of electricity in the systematic district, causing so much pain, the victim would scream and flail in madness. The pain would also triple every second, but no death would be incurred. This is also used in combat against enemy units, which is why all UEE forces must wear the upgraded suit to block this effect.
However, enertainment is also questionable in UEE grounds. Sporting events end with the losing team being rounded into a grinder and shredded on live television, boxing matches end with the loser having their hands removed without anasthesia, flight races would end with the losers having their arms and legs removed, then being injected with insanity, for entertainment. People are also forced into these events, by undergoing a painful 127 hour procedure which involves tweaking the muscles so they will not listen to brain commands, and then having a painful drug injected which also causes madness if the player is not sporting. This is all for entertainment, and anyone not watching any of it during sporting times and cheering for the winning team, they will be imprisoned into galactic camps.
Snuff films are also broadcast, and actors are actually murdered just for entertainment. Stealth droids also guide these forced actors into behaving exactly as the director dreams, otherwise they will be punished by being placed into a macerator and having their execution written into the film. Any film that does not feature someone being murdered will be burned and the entire crew behind it will be executed in the most grotesque way possible - vivisection.
All executions are broadcast, and anyone who misses even a millisecond, even by blinking, will be executed. All citizens must boo to the person being executed, and the family is gathered to be injected with eternators, which cause pain forever, making them immoral but feeling the pain tenfold every millisecond. They cannot pass out, but they will feel like it forever.
Conquests by this Stimpire end in the planet being razed, and all the citizens being executed in the same way as their citizens are. The planet is then destroyed and all remnants of it are removed, and any memories of it will be erased instantly from civil minds. People who are also killed are also erased from memories, and all memories of them, including toys and pictures, are destroyed.
Prisoners undergo 40,000 years of relentless and endless labor, and anyone not complying is sentenced to the eternator injection. All prisoners injected with eternators are placed into capsules and launched into far space, then the room is closed tight to ensure maximum insanity. Some prisoners are also subjected to the removal of blood, the lungs, the liver, the genitals, the skeleton, the muscles, the eyes, and even the injection of pressure. Prisoners sentenced to pressure chambers are locked in until they are inflated to a high level. The decompression is then stopped to make sure they are inflated and uncomfortable.
Children born on the 14th of July are subjected to the removal of their skeleton and an implant of a silver liquid to replace it. The nervous sysem is also injected in various parts to ensure it is five times more sensitive than the average.
Restaurants also are ordered to serve civil meat, and anyone attending must give themself up to be cooked into a grotesque meal. They are cooked alive, undergoing extreme pain, and are then subjected to industrial grinders and blenders. The Stimpire orders at least 1 million citizens to be dispatched every day, as they are afraid the population may overthrow them. But only one planet is cared for, and the rest are banned from eating, drinking, talking, using technology, touching anyone, wearing unauthorized clothes, touching buildings, or walking a centimeter out of designated routes. Civil enforcers are on every planet, and they are engineered so that they are 40 times larger than the 300 quadrillion population. At least 7 billion die every 12 hours under this rule.
Thoughts are also surveyed, and anyone who does not think anything to loving the Stimpire with more than their capabilities will be sentenced to a prison. Prisoners who are punished for this violation will meet their greatest fear, only to have it amplified so they will turn insane as they imagine it exactly as they fear it. They then undergo a painful extraction of all fluids, to be replaced by a toxin which causes permanent irritation. The unknown substance keeps the subject aging normally, except they will never die. Prisoners punished in this way are unable to be reverted, despite many efforts, and they will never be able to be disposed.
The sickening truths have been revealed only today, and invigilation teams are still investigating the truths without setting foot in the galactic space of this sickening empire.
 
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defaultluser said:
This shit goes even further into the path of retarded kinks -one early star Citizen forum thread made the case whether they should add rape to the game
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ok but like are you picking out just one fucking weirdos post or is there like a campaign for rape with 500,000 posts in the thread like yeah lets do this
 
staknhalo said:
ok but like are you picking out just one fucking weirdos post or is there like a campaign for rape with 500,000 posts in the thread like yeah lets do this
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One. There are weirdos in every fandom. I mean really fucked up weirdos too. This being a computer game you’re gonna collect a few folks without all the bolts firmly tightened.
 
lopoetve said:
One. There are weirdos in every fandom. I mean really fucked up weirdos too. This being a computer game you’re gonna collect a few folks without all the bolts firmly tightened.
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right which is why i asked

just cause i use the internet doesn't mean i use second life don't associate me with those freaks

anyone here who uses second life i dont care don't @ me and yes i used stereotyping as an argument against stereotyping i don't give a fuck you sick fucks
 
staknhalo said:
right which is why i asked

just cause i use the internet doesn't mean i use second life don't associate me with those freaks

anyone here who uses second life i dont care don't @ me and yes i used stereotyping as an argument against stereotyping i don't give a fuck you sick fucks
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staknhalo I use second life. In Mario bros.
 
gamerk2 said:
Software Engineer here, let me add my $0.02.

Alpha: All major gameplay systems implemented; significant work necessary to get all systems to work together. Feature re-works may occur based on testing.

Beta: First build considered "good enough" for public release. Changes can/will be made based on internal/external testing.

Essentially, in Alpha while most systems are implemented, they may be re-worked depending on how things interact.
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that is exactly what sc is at, alpha. they had to re wok/do the engine and netcode for example
 
N4CR said:
1 system, ten years.
Sataball?
ToW (when you can't get FPS working on a horrible old FPS engine) is still nowhere to be found, two years after being a 'quick job for a 6 man team' that 'wouldn't take resources away from game development', after a failed playtest. It has now been (drumroll) outsourced to Turbulent, who is developing an increasingly large amount of the game. Of course that wouldn't take away any resources for development, would it?
Jesus tech/patch promises
OCS
SSOCS
Server 'mashing' going nowhere for years
'1000 player shards'
Cap Ships like BMM sold and still in dev/unreleased after 8 years, as the gameplay, backend and features needed aren't even greybox
Fully crewed large cap ships will exceed server player count limits if there are more than one currently
RIP economy balance
Game funded by ship sales = dead when it stops. They have no war chest. The alpha must go on
Flight model still being changed often
30-40% of features in major patches permanently delayed
Art everywhere but few greybox or features (breaks the codebase)
Massive tech debt
Chris basically NEVER says 'no, we can't do that'. Seriously go and look. Everything is possible in dreams.txt
Unplayable FPS/ship/AI desync usually
10-20fps isn't playable for fps now and was barely acceptable 20 years ago
Fps tied to server tick rate, yes a potato can be as fast as a 3090/6900
The plethora of gameplay breaking bugs, many of which are 5+ years old
Ageing graphics engine (once you see the plastic you'll never go back)
Terrible ship layout and space inefficiency
Assets and interior spaces laid out or designed with little care or thought sometimes
Stolen gimmicks from every other franchise
Spaghetti codebase, many of the OG devs are gone. New features bring old bugs often, if you're a dev you know what that means (7 levels of nested 'If statements' in one public screenshot of the code)
Features still being added in 'alpha'. Alpha now apparently doesn't mean feature complete
Most gameplay modes have severe bugs or issues (hence the 'my org does mining only now' posts)
Ships release like clockwork, gameplay modes barely touched
Feature and scope creep. Go read the starliner/transport dreams.txt Tony Zzzz wrote back in 2014 or so. Its an entire game in itself (this was also when I knew they would never finish).
Most of staff is art and marketing, few devs comparitively
Massive office acquisitions during WFH transition (tax write off/losses.exe)
The offshoot companies owned by the family, to funnel backer funding into which ended up mostly wasted (mocap studio, capture of talent screwed up, re-caps etc
Dodgy shell companies and the rest
500mil if you count Calders investments and loans to CIG which we only see UK filings for.
Oh yeah, don't forget to answer the call 2016, ladies and gentlemen. Squadron 54 is always current year+ 1-2 like server meshing.
No SQ54 gameplay for 2 years
SQ54 wouldn't take dev away from PTU but is blamed when stuff takes time and vice versa
It's an alpha (technically its not even alpha/feature complete) when any criticism is leveled
It's also a completed, released game(s) as a service according to court and the website
A new world having massive engine issues too (shares large parts of cryengine/lumber yard/'starengine' fork)
You'll notice most of the stuff on the reddit is screenshots and theorycrafting dreams.txt. You can't see the frame rate or the AI in a perpetual suicidal lemming mode/ship jittering/exploding or falling through the floor in a screenshot.
Collisions are broken likely due to them scaling a 3x3km Crysis map to 3000x3000km and having not enough precision
Some are convinced it's money laundering
Ramps, stairs, elevators, beds, ships etc are still deadly and or IEDs
50 player limit reduced to 40 (and part of the single system deleted to save IO and ram on server) for an event (engine/servers at their limits as usual)
The SC plebbit mods are cancer and the astroturfing and shilling has lot of budget, to drag new players in. It gets so bad you'll see new players shilling things they did that aren't even in the game. They don't pay for very good astroturfing.
The refunds sub is run by blue haired, trannycommie soyim goons, who actually censor/delete/shadowban more than the main sub or spectrum. All while astroturfing how bad the other side is at moderation. They push political agenda while claiming its against the rules with the expected reddit mod slant and are nasty PoS's, anyone who knows the truth of Weimar Germany knows their old tactics. Many there also cannot admit when SC does good things and love to hate it. Many also love the game concept and just want to see something work reliably, but are jaded by mismanagement or burned by promises and expressive pledge ships.


All up, with my harsh take aside, the game has serious potential. If they stopped now, kicked Chris and his family and their lawyer as far away as possible, then turned it into a sharded horror game on unreal5, they'd have a money printer. Or just focused on normal game dev procedure on a suitable engine. The ambience when not done over the top is insane. The detail for those who like it, is unrivalled. There are truly some magical things this game does that no other does or can do.
The game could be taken in so many magnificent paths with the largest dev budget ever. But it's not.
Why?

The same reason Chris Roberts had Microsoft step in and boot him off one of his most famous games, in order to get it finished after killing the budget multiple times.
The same reason he is quoted saying 'make that blue pixel green'.
The same reason many ships or things have had countless 'passes' while still being fundamentally broken
The same reason it looks great but much doesn't reliably work
The same reason for massive scope creep and a decade or more of impossible tech and engine debt

Mismanagement and petty levels of micromanagement in some areas. Chris has clearly a team of yes men, plus a lot of family on the payroll and is an ideas guy. He should be nowhere near management. Keep his often-brilliant creativity and poor grasp of physics the fuck away from any form of management, because if there is one thing that's 100% certain with the permanent delays and ten years of BS, is that it's a mismanaged clusterfuck and has been for years.
Go look at an update release for No Mans Sky, or War Thunder. Dev teams and budgets many, many times smallef. Look at all the fixes, additions, new gameplay added. That's how it's done. Not just delaying a large amount to rhe next patch.

But people keep buying SC, it's making bank while being a bit of a laughing stock in the gaming world. Sunk cost fallacy and FOMO is a big part. Earth 2 and lots of crypto is the same in that way. And before you argue its not ten years, because they had to 'build the studios from the ground up and harvest the logs and raw palladium for the workstations', that's from the 'Chairman' himself.

I'll get a base pack one day if there is more than one or two systems and they give up and fully shard like every other mmo has to due do physics. Or unreal5 (possibly happening to ToW). Or they add a damn space bulldozer. Until then, I'll watch the best funded and most beautiful gaming tranwreck in history from the sidelines.

P.s. One could write hours of this and I'm tired so can't dredge everything up for you, but this is what happens when dev takes decades
P.p.s 'watch sunk cost galaxy'
P.p.p.s sorry for my low effort mobile formatting and punctuation. Yes I am a lazy, tired asshole who has been busy working on patents when not crafting this shitposting for y'all
P.p.p.p.s WTT late production Vega 64 ref excellent undervolts, under 2k gaming hours massively undervolted


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WALL OF TEXT WTF!!! calm down o the keyboard!! We know u love SC and play it daily...
 
So could someone explain to me; is this a massive persistent universe where I can meet everyone on one "server"? Like, how many people could I interact with at anyone time in a "system"? Could literally hundreds if not thousands of players get together in a fleet? Or does this game use instancing garbage?
 
Vega said:
So could someone explain to me; is this a massive persistent universe where I can meet everyone on one "server"? Like, how many people could I interact with at anyone time in a "system"? Could literally hundreds if not thousands of players get together in a fleet? Or does this game use instancing garbage?
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Net code is still under construction but their goal is a seamless universe for all players, like no mans sky. However, I’m not sure that’s going to work with ping across continents, so I dunno.
 
jonneymendoza said:
is it true that 7 days to die has been in alpha longer than SC?
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What does this have to do with anything? Are all the Star Citizens just doing whataboutism now to defend it? That's a pretty poor posture, especially when you show you don't even know what you're talking about lol
 
Dudhunter said:
Net code is still under construction but their goal is a seamless universe for all players, like no mans sky. However, I’m not sure that’s going to work with ping across continents, so I dunno.
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Again, as I said several pages ago... this "problem" has been solved for decades in gaming. CIG spending so much time and having so many problems getting something with so many example patterns to build off of, just goes to further show their incompetence.
 
Eulogy said:
Again, as I said several pages ago... this "problem" has been solved for decades in gaming. CIG spending so much time and having so many problems getting something with so many example patterns to build off of, just goes to further show their incompetence.
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I'm not sure why you're talking to me about it? I was answering someone else's question and you're referring back to some comments you made weeks/months ago like I'm supposed to be referring to you as some type of source?
 

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Dudhunter said:
I'm not sure why you're talking to me about it? I was answering someone else's question and you're referring back to some comments you made weeks/months ago like I'm supposed to be referring to you as some type of source?
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Guess I'll quote you so you can understand how the conversation is going?
You said
Dudhunter said:
Net code is still under construction but their goal is a seamless universe for all players, like no mans sky. However, I’m not sure that’s going to work with ping across continents, so I dunno.
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Bold, Italic, Underlined so you can't miss it. To which I replied
Eulogy said:
Again, as I said several pages ago... this "problem" has been solved for decades in gaming. CIG spending so much time and having so many problems getting something with so many example patterns to build off of, just goes to further show their incompetence.
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Make sense now?
 
Dudhunter said:
Net code is still under construction but their goal is a seamless universe for all players, like no mans sky. However, I’m not sure that’s going to work with ping across continents, so I dunno.
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I think EVE might be a better comparison, and I suspect SC is going to run into the same performance issues when player count gets into the mid thousands. At the end of the day, server processing is going to be your limiting factor.
 
Eulogy said:
Guess I'll quote you so you can understand how the conversation is going?
You said

Bold, Italic, Underlined so you can't miss it. To which I replied


Make sense now?
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Honest question, as while I enjoyed my time in NMS, I only played about 12 hours... how much PVP happens in NMS? It was a bit too... open for me.
 
lopoetve said:
Honest question, as while I enjoyed my time in NMS, I only played about 12 hours... how much PVP happens in NMS? It was a bit too... open for me.
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It's certainly not a core element of the game by any stretch. Galaxy 150 had a huge "war" last year, but I avoided that. I haven't played in a few months, but, have NMS on PC now so I should fire it back up and play more. Kind of done with space-y games, except the occasional Rebel Galaxy, lately.
 
gamerk2 said:
I think EVE might be a better comparison, and I suspect SC is going to run into the same performance issues when player count gets into the mid thousands. At the end of the day, server processing is going to be your limiting factor.
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After 10 Years they can't even get more than 50 people on a server.
 
FearTheCow said:
After 10 Years they can't even get more than 50 people on a server.
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Which shouldn't be that shocking; there's a lot of synchronization that needs to be done to keep everyone in sync, and you need to literally throw money (hardware) at the problem. And even then performance is going to be a slideshow.

Basically, I'm arguing SC won't ever reach those player counts because there HW doesn't exist to allow playable performance. You can "get away" with "frames per hour" in EVE, but you really can't with SC.
 
FearTheCow said:
After 10 Years they can't even get more than 50 people on a server.
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I was going to say what a stupid idea it was to use the CryEngine, an engine that was known for really nice looking graphics, but notorious for terrible performance scaling and had never been used for games with tons of players.
But as you stated, this game was started 10 years ago and I probably did say that 10 years ago.
I'm guessing they would have went with Unreal Engine if it wasn't for the deal Crytek made with them which ended up backfiring.


I feel like by the time (if ever) they overcome the big technological hurdles so the cool stuff is fully playable in Star Citizen other games will already have it and it will be built into UE5 and other tools.
 
sharknice said:
I was going to say what a stupid idea it was to use the CryEngine, an engine that was known for really nice looking graphics, but notorious for terrible performance scaling and had never been used for games with tons of players.
But as you stated, this game was started 10 years ago and I probably did say that 10 years ago.
I'm guessing they would have went with Unreal Engine if it wasn't for the deal Crytek made with them which ended up backfiring.


I feel like by the time (if ever) they overcome the big technological hurdles so the cool stuff is fully playable in Star Citizen other games will already have it and it will be built into UE5 and other tools.
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Even putting aside CryEngine's horrid performance and lack of features, keep in mind that the player count is going to be driven more by server-side processing then anything the client does. All the client really has to do is get player coordinates/orientation from the server and update at some rate; it's the server that needs to keep track and process what each player is attempting to do and broadcast any state changes down to all players. And that's where the bottleneck is. There's no tech that can get around fundamental processing limitations; you can throw more servers at the problem (kinda like EVE's meshing), but at the end of the day your limited by how much you are willing to invest into your servers. And given SC's flight model, any form of lag/delay is unacceptable. As a result, player counts are always going to be limited to a few hundred per node at most (and I think I'm being somewhat generous here).

Chris Roberts may want tens of thousands of players to interact in realtime on a single node, but I can tell you it isn't happening. But then again, Roberts's entire MO is overpromising and underdelivering.
 
gamerk2 said:
Even putting aside CryEngine's horrid performance and lack of features, keep in mind that the player count is going to be driven more by server-side processing then anything the client does. All the client really has to do is get player coordinates/orientation from the server and update at some rate; it's the server that needs to keep track and process what each player is attempting to do and broadcast any state changes down to all players. And that's where the bottleneck is. There's no tech that can get around fundamental processing limitations; you can throw more servers at the problem (kinda like EVE's meshing), but at the end of the day your limited by how much you are willing to invest into your servers. And given SC's flight model, any form of lag/delay is unacceptable. As a result, player counts are always going to be limited to a few hundred per node at most (and I think I'm being somewhat generous here).

Chris Roberts may want tens of thousands of players to interact in realtime on a single node, but I can tell you it isn't happening. But then again, Roberts's entire MO is overpromising and underdelivering.
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This is why I asked about PVP in NMS - Star Citizen is heavily focused towards space combat, which is often going to be PVP at high rates of speed. As is, keeping it stable and sane is hard - never mind when you get far more people on the same server or far more things moving. Eve isn't "realtime" in the sense that you can't dodge/etc a laser shot. That can be determined at firing time if it hits/doesn't/etc. So... easier than trying to track one of thousands of laser repeater shots in a server. etc.
 
gamerk2 said:
Even putting aside CryEngine's horrid performance and lack of features, keep in mind that the player count is going to be driven more by server-side processing then anything the client does. All the client really has to do is get player coordinates/orientation from the server and update at some rate; it's the server that needs to keep track and process what each player is attempting to do and broadcast any state changes down to all players. And that's where the bottleneck is. There's no tech that can get around fundamental processing limitations; you can throw more servers at the problem (kinda like EVE's meshing), but at the end of the day your limited by how much you are willing to invest into your servers. And given SC's flight model, any form of lag/delay is unacceptable. As a result, player counts are always going to be limited to a few hundred per node at most (and I think I'm being somewhat generous here).

Chris Roberts may want tens of thousands of players to interact in realtime on a single node, but I can tell you it isn't happening. But then again, Roberts's entire MO is overpromising and underdelivering.
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The server side engine typically shares a lot of the same code as the client side engine which CryEngine really wasn't used for beyond pretty basic stuff when they started development.

I think it will be possible to have tens of thousands players at some point, but I don't think SC will achieve it. Fortnite has extremely good latency with 100 players in a game. They can use similar techniques to what they do at a larger scaled across multiple machines acting as one server. All hard stuff to do, but I'm sure it'll happen at some point for some other game/metaverse.
 
sharknice said:
The server side engine typically shares a lot of the same code as the client side engine which CryEngine really wasn't used for beyond pretty basic stuff when they started development.

I think it will be possible to have tens of thousands players at some point, but I don't think SC will achieve it. Fortnite has extremely good latency with 100 players in a game. They can use similar techniques to what they do at a larger scaled across multiple machines acting as one server. All hard stuff to do, but I'm sure it'll happen at some point for some other game/metaverse.
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The problem is that as playercount rises, performance requirements don't scale linearly, they scale exponentially. EVE ran into the same exact problem; a few hundred to a few thousand they can handle by throwing more servers at the problem, but once they get into the tens of thousands the necessary synchronization between that many players is beyond the ability of the servers to deal with. EVE can get away with that given it's gameplay model, SC can't.

Also, comparing to FPS's isn't exactly fair; at the end of the day FPS just needs to track a few really basic functions (position, orientation, health, ammo, loadout, etc.) and that's about it. With SC, there's more to track not only with the individual players (momentum tracking becomes a very expensive thing to compute, especially if the flight model supports individual players bouncing off eachother; multi-object physics calculations get expensive fast) but with tracking each individual shot weapon which obviously gets comically expensive. FPS's do the absolute bare minimum of server-side processing for a reason; SC is attempting something of a much larger scale, and would correspondingly be that much more computationally expensive to implement.
 
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