Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

Wait, I don't understand why the performance of this MMO is so shitty, but people are accepting of it.

You could easily run a Freelancer 25-player server on a single core Athlon 64 on a T1 line. I used to play on Browclops's server pretty regularly in the first year, and those were his specs.

That's for 25 players mostly lag-free, in a game with FIFTY star systems you can mine/pirate with impunity, hundreds of bases/planets where you can trade or take on missions.

Not to mention a full helping of AI ships to fill-in that universe. They fly around freely, and interact with each other, INDEPENDENT of any spawned for any missions you've taken on.

You can't even do 1/4 of that currently in Star Citizen, but player count can't go above a dozen. How do we excuse this, again? We should be able to easily double that in a single instance, even with the added FPS features.

OR are you trying to tell me that compute power has GONE BACKWARDS since 2004? :rolleyes:
 
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defaultluser said:
Wait, I don't understand why the performance of this MMO is so shitty, but people are accepting of it.

You could easily play Freelancer 25-player server on a single core Athlon 64 on a T1 line. I used to play on Browclops's serveer pretty regularly, and those were his secs.

That's for 25 players mostly lag-free, in a game with FIFTY star systems you can mine with impunity, hundreds of bases/planets where you can trade or take on missions.

Not to mention a full helping of AI ships to fill-in that universe that meet you and can be pirated even when you're not running missions.

You can't even do 1/4 of that in Star Citizen, but player count can't go above a dozen. How do we excuse this, again?
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Yup. IMO they really tried to make this game way too detailed when it didn't need to be.

No one gives a shit about actually climbing into the starship and the fact that each engine has 50 million lines of code of physics to run it properly and that shit inside the ship is all rendered if you can't ever make the game run decently with MMO size player counts.
 
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Not to defend them but who is to say by the end of beta (we are no where near that) they get server population up way higher? The game is alpha still. Are we expecting too much or not enough? Personal opinion I'm thinking and certainly no expert on my part.
 
Skott said:
Not to defend them but who is to say by the end of beta (we are no where near that) they get server population up way higher? The game is alpha still. Are we expecting too much or not enough? Personal opinion I'm thinking and certainly no expert on my part.
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We live in an era where random indy games give us 64 on 64 player battles without even batting an eye, and most generic MMOs give us hundreds of players in a server.

WOW can give you, as of 2010 6000 people in a single server, just to show you what's really possible if you put your mind to it. This was their first attempt at an MMO, vbut that didn't stop them from growing server size quickly.

EVE Online can, as of 2011, host 60,000 people at-once on their single server! And when they started in 2003 hey had to host almost 10k people, so they had to learn quick how to make things work.

I don't think asking for a few hundred in a server (like other smaller MMOs) is asking too much. Especially after all these years in development.

The fact that it's beaten by a 14-year-old game TODAY is simply staggering. Especially since Freelancer server could jump up to 128 players, if you threw enough processing power at it. I'm pretty sure a 7700k could handle that 4x single-threaded jump from a 2003-era Athlon 64.

If the MMO portion of the game is so important, why does it's actual usability always seem to be the last priority of Chris Roberts? But oh wait, let me distract you with our latest shiny when you dare to ask questions.

WHEN YOU STOP GETTING DISTRACTED, the reality starts to make less and less sense.
 
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Skott said:
Not to defend them but who is to say by the end of beta (we are no where near that) they get server population up way higher? The game is alpha still. Are we expecting too much or not enough? Personal opinion I'm thinking and certainly no expert on my part.
Click to expand...

They picked the wrong engine. This game, as pitched, will NEVER happen.
 
defaultluser said:
Wait, I don't understand why the performance of this MMO is so shitty, but people are accepting of it.

You could easily run a Freelancer 25-player server on a single core Athlon 64 on a T1 line. I used to play on Browclops's server pretty regularly in the first year, and those were his specs.

That's for 25 players mostly lag-free, in a game with FIFTY star systems you can mine/pirate with impunity, hundreds of bases/planets where you can trade or take on missions.

Not to mention a full helping of AI ships to fill-in that universe. They fly around freely, and interact with each other, INDEPENDENT of any spawned for any missions you've taken on.

You can't even do 1/4 of that currently in Star Citizen, but player count can't go above a dozen. How do we excuse this, again? We should be able to easily double that in a single instance, even with the added FPS features.

OR are you trying to tell me that compute power has GONE BACKWARDS since 2004? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
But did Freelancer have realisticly simulated water flow in the ship's toilet? I think not!
 
Meeho said:
But did Freelancer have realisticly simulated water flow in the ship's toilet? I think not!
Click to expand...

It's all so clear to me now!

NewUnited_Water.jpg


The reason their desert planet is short of water is not because of waste, it's because of the incredible fidelity used to model the water is just too taxing to supply the entire planet with water.

Yet another worthless backstory, instead of fixing the game.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/16238-New-United-War-On-Water
 
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defaultluser said:
We live in an era where random indy games give us 64 on 64 player battles without even batting an eye, and most generic MMOs give us hundreds of players in a server.

WOW can give you, as of 2010 6000 people in a single server, just to show you what's really possible if you put your mind to it. This was their first attempt at an MMO, vbut that didn't stop them from growing server size quickly.

EVE Online can, as of 2011, host 60,000 people at-once on their single server! And when they started in 2003 hey had to host almost 10k people, so they had to learn quick how to make things work.

I don't think asking for a few hundred in a server (like other smaller MMOs) is asking too much. Especially after all these years in development.

The fact that it's beaten by a 14-year-old game TODAY is simply staggering. Especially since Freelancer server could jump up to 128 players, if you threw enough processing power at it. I'm pretty sure a 7700k could handle that 4x single-threaded jump from a 2003-era Athlon 64.

If the MMO portion of the game is so important, why does it's actual usability always seem to be the last priority of Chris Roberts? But oh wait, let me distract you with our latest shiny when you dare to ask questions.

WHEN YOU STOP GETTING DISTRACTED, the reality starts to make less and less sense.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I think you're right. You find the limitations of your engine in the beginning and program around it from the start. You don't go back and fix it later. there are systemic issues and you wrote a major one out very well.

Eve did things that are completely unacceptable to this game. Like grouping all weapons together as one bullet. Most weapons fire very slowly. They also slow time waayyyyyyy down for the big battles. They are thrilled to be under 1 second. So their lessons learned aren't applicable (I am writing this to combat any "they can fix it later" gibberish based on Eve.)

Also - found a leaked ending to SQ42 show off Star Citizen's amazing engine.
 
Sunrise chasing around Daymar :cool:

video down 'cause NDA

Thanks for keeping the thread bumped everyone :)
 
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Someone sounded very emotional and upset that the video was taken down, here's a gfycat mirror for you but it totally butchers the quality and I also sped it up 4x so it'd fit in the 1 minute limit:

https://gfycat.com/wealthyadorableindianelephant

I can provide the full 1080p quality video on request, just send me a PM

Thanks for following the game with such enthusiasm :D

P.S: This is memerific

osdvyodci7zz.png
 
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New video source

Edit: And again taken down :( but the gfycat is still alive
 
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Jump Point issue 05.11

dm.reddit.com/r/RSIsubscriber/comments/7dxstk/jump_point_here_you_go/

ZLAGGXV.jpg
 
defaultluser said:
EVE Online can, as of 2011, host 60,000 people at-once on their single server! And when they started in 2003 hey had to host almost 10k people, so they had to learn quick how to make things work.
Click to expand...

I agree with much of the rest of your post, but this particular line is a gross simplification. Eve's datacenter isn't THAT incredible on in the scheme of big DCs, but from the pic or two I've seen of some of their racks, they could have some serious power in there (for the amount of space it appears to take up).

Just as a comparison, I built and run the server for the local (to me) division of the company I work for. We only have 300 people on site here (the company as a whole is a nation-wide fortune 100 company.) I got a Cisco UCS Mini chassis, and put in four blades. I think it's what 12U or 15U of rack space for the server chassis, and about the same for the EMC SAN it's connected to. It all fits in about half a standard rack. This UCS has four blades. Each blade contains 256GB of RAM, and two CPUs with 10 cores each. So all together that's 80 cores and one TB of RAM. (The SAN is roughly 40TB tiered SSD and SAS). Pretty ridiculous for something that cost maybe $80-90K. It's connected by 10Gb fiber to our main networks, and it's fibrechannel between the servers and SAN (directly connected).

That's HALF OF ONE rack. Eve's DC contains a few racks that appear to be much more full than the one I run here. I don't have direct data on what they've got running there. Just rough guesses based on a couple of pics I saw. However, I would estimate that it's many times what I run here, and while sure, you could call it their "single server" it's still a lot of computing and connectivity power.

Maybe you already know this (I'm willing to bet that's the case) and were just simplifying it for the sake of being concise, but if we're going to talk about what some of these games run on, then I think it's wise to elaborate a bit on the actual capabilities to the degree that any of us can from the outside.

As far as how this relates to Star Citizen, or compares to what they're running at CIG, I have no idea, and your comparisons as far as what the games presented to their many players, I don't contest at all. You probably have a much better idea than I do on that. I don't really play many (if any) "proper" MMOs. I just wanted to put the server thing into a bit more perspective. Maybe it will bring more information about what all these games are running on to light. I'm interested to know this actually.

As far as Chris Roberts, his company's business model, etc. I have more of a wait and see attitude. I don't agree with some of it, and people are free to think about it however they like. It really just doesn't matter that much to me. I want to see them succeed, and hope they do, but until it's finally decided one way or the other, not really much of a concern to me.
 
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READ THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD, STICK TO IT. If you cannot follow those simple directions, do not post. I am tired of getting constant reports on this thread for off topic posting, and I will close it soon if comments made are not on the topic of Star Citizen. Pretty damn simple.
 
Quick run through of cargo and trading systems featuring the redesigned (and much improved) Cutlass.
You can also see the new "Lock" option on the rear cargo ramp control panel
 
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That was a pretty cool vid, though I was kinda hoping that you would be able to salvage wrecks on planets (as well as in space) with the Reclaimer. Not just pick up loot that spawns next to the wreck.
 
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J3RK said:
I agree with much of the rest of your post, but this particular line is a gross simplification. Eve's datacenter isn't THAT incredible on in the scheme of big DCs, but from the pic or two I've seen of some of their racks, they could have some serious power in there (for the amount of space it appears to take up).

Just as a comparison, I built and run the server for the local (to me) division of the company I work for. We only have 300 people on site here (the company as a whole is a nation-wide fortune 100 company.) I got a Cisco UCS Mini chassis, and put in four blades. I think it's what 12U or 15U of rack space for the server chassis, and about the same for the EMC SAN it's connected to. It all fits in about half a standard rack. This UCS has four blades. Each blade contains 256GB of RAM, and two CPUs with 10 cores each. So all together that's 80 cores and one TB of RAM. (The SAN is roughly 40TB tiered SSD and SAS). Pretty ridiculous for something that cost maybe $80-90K. It's connected by 10Gb fiber to our main networks, and it's fibrechannel between the servers and SAN (directly connected).

That's HALF OF ONE rack. Eve's DC contains a few racks that appear to be much more full than the one I run here. I don't have direct data on what they've got running there. Just rough guesses based on a couple of pics I saw. However, I would estimate that it's many times what I run here, and while sure, you could call it their "single server" it's still a lot of computing and connectivity power.

Maybe you already know this (I'm willing to bet that's the case) and were just simplifying it for the sake of being concise, but if we're going to talk about what some of these games run on, then I think it's wise to elaborate a bit on the actual capabilities to the degree that any of us can from the outside.

As far as how this relates to Star Citizen, or compares to what they're running at CIG, I have no idea, and your comparisons as far as what the games presented to their many players, I don't contest at all. You probably have a much better idea than I do on that. I don't really play many (if any) "proper" MMOs. I just wanted to put the server thing into a bit more perspective. Maybe it will bring more information about what all these games are running on to light. I'm interested to know this actually.

As far as Chris Roberts, his company's business model, etc. I have more of a wait and see attitude. I don't agree with some of it, and people are free to think about it however they like. It really just doesn't matter that much to me. I want to see them succeed, and hope they do, but until it's finally decided one way or the other, not really much of a concern to me.
Click to expand...

A "server" in MMO context has always meant a single universe/shard AFAIK, doesn't have anything to do with how much hardware is behind it.

But it's a misnomer because of that and also because with zoned MMOs like EQ1 you'd have thousands of people on the same shard but it's stupid to say you're on the same server unless you're actually in the same zone. I think the most I ever saw in the same zone in EQ1 when I played was around 300 people and it'd really be chugging but I don't know how much of that was network performance vs server performance vs graphics rendering.
 
shifty68 said:
That was a pretty cool vid, though I was kinda hoping that you would be able to salvage wrecks on planets (as well as in space) with the Reclaimer. Not just pick up loot that spawns next to the wreck.
Click to expand...
Yeah unfortunately that's not coming with 3.0. This is just the first iteration of cargo so they're focusing on getting the basics working. Next step after this is large containers, which ties in with salvaging (and mining too) since you'll need those large containers to store the large amount of cargo/material produced from salvaging a ship.

Oh something I forgot to mention, they talk about "overbalancing" the ship. What they mean is that if you load cargo only on one side of the ship it will affect how it handles, specially in atmosphere and when doing extreme maneuvers. Also notice how the interior space of that Cutlass is much larger than the actual grids for cargo (oh you can also stack the small boxes up to a certain volume). You can actually place more cargo boxes and fill the ship's hold if you want but those boxes will not be secured so they'll float/shuffle around banging inside the ship AND affecting how the ship handles as well.
 
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Lizard Testes said:
A "server" in MMO context has always meant a single universe/shard AFAIK, doesn't have anything to do with how much hardware is behind it.

But it's a misnomer because of that and also because with zoned MMOs like EQ1 you'd have thousands of people on the same shard but it's stupid to say you're on the same server unless you're actually in the same zone. I think the most I ever saw in the same zone in EQ1 when I played was around 300 people and it'd really be chugging but I don't know how much of that was network performance vs server performance vs graphics rendering.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I get that. It would actually be silly to refer to it in more of a gaming context as the "data center, or rack or cage" that you're playing on :D Since we were talking about player counts though, I'm kind of curious what kind of hardware is actually behind some of the higher counts listed in the post I was responding to. I may have overplayed the clarification aspect a bit.
 
Lorien said:
Yeah unfortunately that's not coming with 3.0. This is just the first iteration of cargo so they're focusing on getting the basics working.
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The first iteration of cargo is coming after five years in an MMO for which trade is one of the cornerstones. Nothing to worry about here, Star Citizen is coming along nicely.
 
So last july, official word was August. Then official word was September. Then official word was October. What's the new official word on 3.0 release? Or is there one?
 
Pringle said:
So last july, official word was August. Then official word was September. Then official word was October. What's the new official word on 3.0 release? Or is there one?
Click to expand...

Nothing official about Star Citizen's timeline. CIG has stopped giving estimated dates.
 
Pringle said:
So last july, official word was August. Then official word was September. Then official word was October. What's the new official word on 3.0 release? Or is there one?
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Bored Gamer thinks it will make it out for Xmas. He's Evocati so I wonder if he knows something we dont?
 
Love the look of the new Cutlass, can't wait to see what my Slue looks like... And that was also a cool vid- Thank you!
 
Yeah they have a lot of options now since there's much more room inside. Either more holding cells or perhaps a single bigger one leaving room to park a hover bike.
 
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