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Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

Star Citizen Invictus Launch Week Free Fly Event is going to be 5-15-25 through 5-27-25.

This year, there's also an Aegis Idris frigate experience available to visit within the Arccorp Plaza of Area18, should you fancy taking an in-depth tour of this iconic ship.

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The update kicked me in the ass. I lost the reclaimer that I bought in game.
 
So, it now looks like customers can not only pledge (i.e. pre-buy) Star Citizen ship(s), it appears that Roberts Space Industries is now going to allow you to pledge (i.e. "buy") all of your desired ship components/gear as well... Open your wallets folks, you now get the unique opportunity to "buy" desired ship parts for that ship you previously pledged for.


View: https://youtu.be/alZYLlkyNlI?feature=shared
 
I have a feeling this game won't be an enjoyable experience for people that pick it up for the first time at launch. People with already decked out ships and 10 years of experience
 
Definitely a wake up and smell the coffee moment...

Real easy to sell a dream and then keep cashing in on it over and over again while eventually dribbling out some nice looking but completely hollow half-baked demos to keep the dream alive.

Now this shift into "pay to play" land after spending close to a billion may be what finally breaks the camel's back. Then again, there are lots of folks that have fully drunk the Koolaid at this point - they may still lap this up and open their wallets... At least that is what their marketing team is hoping for I guess.

Blizzard tried this same crap and it didn't go so well for them though...
 
Supercharged_Z06 said:
So, it now looks like customers can not only pledge (i.e. pre-buy) Star Citizen ship(s), it appears that Roberts Space Industries is now going to allow you to pledge (i.e. "buy") all of your desired ship components/gear as well... Open your wallets folks, you now get the unique opportunity to "buy" desired ship parts for that ship you previously pledged for.


View: https://youtu.be/alZYLlkyNlI?feature=shared
Click to expand...

I don't know that channel and that's a 45 minute video so I'll need to check some research in advance to see if its worthwhile, but is this a meaningful change of policy?

There have always been the ability to buy components (ie ship weapons) going back to the Voyager Direct store, and the ability to buy armor, on foot weapons, and other gear (such as in the Subscriber store) is relatively commonplace for awhile. Unless these are exclusive, is this a major change? I'm extremely worried about SC's monetization simply because of things sadly considered normal these days (gacha, item malls, a lot of exclusivity, "its just cosmetic" etc) I've always been a vocal proponent that they stick to the original parameters such as not selling items for real cash post 1.0 / once the servers go live (instead, the plan is to allow a capped amount of in-game currency to be purchaseable instead, as well as account services like tokens for customizable NPCs that can become a PC if desired etc) and that exclusivity be it cosmetic or otherwise is not desirable in 98% of cases etc, that the game's economy must not be designed to encourage real money purchases through tedium or exclusivity, and that the overall game experience must cater primarily to the average player NOT whales in order to maintain long term health..

I've seen some developments in recent years that frustrate me and seem extractive, and if this is another one I'll be quite disappointed, but I'l like to make sure its a significant change first. I've had a lot going on recently so I've not been able to keep up on SC( or many other titles for that matter) as much as I'd like.

Darunion said:
I have a feeling this game won't be an enjoyable experience for people that pick it up for the first time at launch. People with already decked out ships and 10 years of experience
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Save for simple experience through repeat play, new players will not be at a significant disadvantage because of the ability to unlock all those ships and equipment through play. This, combined with as they add more "sim focused" features and systems will level the playing field before long as well as discouraging some edge case behavior (ie pay insurance and LTI both have the same ship restoring parameters, the bounty hunting and NPC crimestat systems expanding, medical/death system and beacons, maintenance costs and balance between ships and components etc) We won't know until they actually get there, but it seems as though as more systems are added the goal is to ensure that new players are not facing a massive disavantage vs long term backers. Even in the Alpha, there are Free Fly players or those with recent arrivals/promo packages that unlock ships through play that, if it was contingent on real money purchase would be quite expensive.
 
The difference is that the ship weapons were all purchasable in-game from the start too - you could make life easy buying something with cash so it was there after the wipe, but you could also haul some boxes for a few hours and buy them that way. Nothing was gated behind a credit card. The personal weapons were all skinned versions of in-game items too - no extra powers or special sauce, just pretty colors. Same for ships, after a short exclusivity period, and generally ships were "close enough" in balance that you didn't have an OP option (F8 aside) to "pay 2 win." Sure you start with an M2 or a Cat, but you don't have the aUEC to fill the thing anyway on day 1!

This time though there was no way to get the components in-game, it straight made existing ships "better" for the players that paid (enough to make it an almost guaranteed win with any experience), or let ships do things that they hadn't been able to do prior (bombing runs with fighters). It meant the whales were going to have a MASSIVE advantage from the start, when prior (even with a Polaris or Idris) they didn't, since a suicide Aurora will plonk a capital ship if need be. This makes life difficult for anyone starting out without those, since it's guaranteed PVP losses.
 
lopoetve said:
The difference is that the ship weapons were all purchasable in-game from the start too - you could make life easy buying something with cash so it was there after the wipe, but you could also haul some boxes for a few hours and buy them that way. Nothing was gated behind a credit card. The personal weapons were all skinned versions of in-game items too - no extra powers or special sauce, just pretty colors. Same for ships, after a short exclusivity period, and generally ships were "close enough" in balance that you didn't have an OP option (F8 aside) to "pay 2 win." Sure you start with an M2 or a Cat, but you don't have the aUEC to fill the thing anyway on day 1!

This time though there was no way to get the components in-game, it straight made existing ships "better" for the players that paid (enough to make it an almost guaranteed win with any experience), or let ships do things that they hadn't been able to do prior (bombing runs with fighters). It meant the whales were going to have a MASSIVE advantage from the start, when prior (even with a Polaris or Idris) they didn't, since a suicide Aurora will plonk a capital ship if need be. This makes life difficult for anyone starting out without those, since it's guaranteed PVP losses.
Click to expand...

If this is accurate, then that's a massive fuckup that seems avoidable. If the intention was basically to sell these as part of Invictus but just "hadn't gotten around" to making them available for in-game currency yet, then that seems they overreached foolishly and caused a scandal for no good reason. A lot of the negative feedback could have been avoided if they just took the time to roll out the in-game sales mechanisms contemporaneously or, if nothing else, make it very clear they'll be coming in an upcoming patch. Even when pledge-capable new stuff was available to purchase, they usually made sure that it showed up concurrently when actually available in game unless it was something like the Subscriber items which have a "3 months for subscribers, then they are added into the normal loot table" or something like that. I can't imagine why they'd mess up Invictus with something like this.

If nothing else I hope it puts the brakes on whatever element of CIG that is pressing to change from the old monetization strategy towards normalizing more exploitative and extractive types that are sadly common elsewhere in the industry. There is the very real danger that an influx of both player and junior/mid level development staff who for one reason or another could make it easier to move away from the previous plans because "its fine, this is how things are done now" when the entire point of Star Citizen is supposed to be different from the rest of the industry, including in the exclusive and predatory monetization trends that were in full swing by the time the Kickstarter began. I'll need to look more into the game recently when I have the time .
 
I got a Ghost recon ship years ago for $100 and got annoyed at the game then. Look slike I have missed some drama.
 
I so was interested in getting into this game 13 years ago, but it sounded like a terrible scheme. I am glad I was right in the end.

800 million and still not released and pay to win stuff. It’s too easy to rip off suckers nowadays lol
 
Brackle said:
I so was interested in getting into this game 13 years ago, but it sounded like a terrible scheme. I am glad I was right in the end.

800 million and still not released and pay to win stuff. It’s too easy to rip off suckers nowadays lol
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When the Kickstarter hype was in full swing back in 2012, I wanted to get excited, but I couldn’t help but think “this game already crushed my hopes and dreams in the 90’s when it was called Battlecruiser 3000 A.D.” Then it was called Freelancer, and a bunch of other open-ended space games that promised the sun, the moon, and the stars (literally). It’s a tempting promise, but almost impossible to execute well. Either you limit the scope and nobody buys it because it doesn’t stoke their imaginations, or you try to deliver the impossible and fail miserably. Elite: Dangerous is probably the only decently-executed and complete example that we’re going to see anytime soon, and it’s had its fair share of criticism for being too empty and bland.*

*and for trying to cram in a poorly-executed on-foot mode into a starship game. Almost always a bad idea, No Man’s Sky notwithstanding.
 
arthur_tuxedo said:
When the Kickstarter hype was in full swing back in 2012, I wanted to get excited, but I couldn’t help but think “this game already crushed my hopes and dreams in the 90’s when it was called Battlecruiser 3000 A.D.” Then it was called Freelancer, and a bunch of other open-ended space games that promised the sun, the moon, and the stars (literally). It’s a tempting promise, but almost impossible to execute well. Either you limit the scope and nobody buys it because it doesn’t stoke their imaginations, or you try to deliver the impossible and fail miserably. Elite: Dangerous is probably the only decently-executed and complete example that we’re going to see anytime soon, and it’s had its fair share of criticism for being too empty and bland.*

*and for trying to cram in a poorly-executed on-foot mode into a starship game. Almost always a bad idea, No Man’s Sky notwithstanding.
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For me, the issue was scope creep. I looked at the Kickstarter and saw all the things they kept pledging as the money went up and I said "There's just no way they can make all that happen." Todd Howard, for all people like to hate on him, has a very valuable insight on game development "We can do anything, we just can't do everything." Basically you have to choose how you are going to spend your resources; you can't cram everything into one game, it'll never happen.

Here 13 years later... seems like I'm right. Game is STILL not done, and please remember in that time Sony released the PS4, and then developed from the beginning and release the PS4 Pro, PS5 and PS5 Pro. A console hardware release is not a trivial amount of work and there's been one major one and two minor ones since this project started.

It's not that the game will never get released, I'm sure at some point the money will dry up or something else will happen and they'll work on wrapping up what they have at the time and making it a "release", it is that it will be a shell of what was promised because what was promised was WAAAAAAY more than is doable in a single game.
 
I've been watching this thread from the beginning. Out of curiosity.

I like trying different games and game types. I have not yet done big space mmo type game.

Eve just looks too intimidating with the politics and gankers (from what i have read).

What is the realistic buy in cost here? Nothing fancy just enough to comfortably get by
?
 
Elf_Boy said:
I've been watching this thread from the beginning. Out of curiosity.

I like trying different games and game types. I have not yet done big space mmo type game.

Eve just looks too intimidating with the politics and gankers (from what i have read).

What is the realistic buy in cost here? Nothing fancy just enough to comfortably get by
?
Click to expand...
cost2.jpg
 
Elf_Boy said:
I've been watching this thread from the beginning. Out of curiosity.

I like trying different games and game types. I have not yet done big space mmo type game.

Eve just looks too intimidating with the politics and gankers (from what i have read).

What is the realistic buy in cost here? Nothing fancy just enough to comfortably get by
?
Click to expand...
They have free weeks a few times a year (including right now) but they are generally a pretty buggy time to play. This has improved with server meshing and the player increase to 600ish players per shard.

As far as buy in price the starter pack is $45. That gets you a small ship and access to the game and is all you need to play the game.
 
Elf_Boy said:
I've been watching this thread from the beginning. Out of curiosity.

I like trying different games and game types. I have not yet done big space mmo type game.

Eve just looks too intimidating with the politics and gankers (from what i have read).

What is the realistic buy in cost here? Nothing fancy just enough to comfortably get by
?
Click to expand...

All the "big" space MMOs are a bit different from each other; I've played many of them over the years. For Star Citizen, as BassTek is mentioning the average price for a "game package " (ie comes with the Star Citizen account key, a ship of some type that is permanently bound to your account, hull insurance for said ship prepaid for a period of time, a hangar style related to the ship's size/price/manufacturer, and some ancillary bonuses depending) is around $45. Having the Star Citizen key on your account will give you full access to the Alpha whenever you wish, and will all you need for a game account come the full launch of the title.

When people talk about a "Star Citizen key" this is in reference to accsessing the public MMO universe at launch (and full access to the testing/ Alpha version of the public universe now, among other game modes) By contrast, there is also the separate-yet-related title "Squadron 42", which is designed as a single player, story and mission focused campaign akin to Wing Commander or the Lucasfilm space sims (X-wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing Alliance etc) launching in 2026. Playing and/or completing SQ42 will have some benefits in SC, but nothing "required" - Several years ago they decided to stop selling keys for SQ42 until it got closer to launch and they still haven't resumed yet, but some of us who were around back in the day have game packages that include both Star Citizen and Squadron 42 game keys, which can be a considerable discount for those interested in SQ42 as well.

I can give you some in-game goodies , and/or a wider array of game packages that may have extra content, save you money, or could otherwise be of interest. Feel free to PM if you like.
 
Sycraft said:
For me, the issue was scope creep. I looked at the Kickstarter and saw all the things they kept pledging as the money went up and I said "There's just no way they can make all that happen." Todd Howard, for all people like to hate on him, has a very valuable insight on game development "We can do anything, we just can't do everything." Basically you have to choose how you are going to spend your resources; you can't cram everything into one game, it'll never happen.

Here 13 years later... seems like I'm right. Game is STILL not done, and please remember in that time Sony released the PS4, and then developed from the beginning and release the PS4 Pro, PS5 and PS5 Pro. A console hardware release is not a trivial amount of work and there's been one major one and two minor ones since this project started.

It's not that the game will never get released, I'm sure at some point the money will dry up or something else will happen and they'll work on wrapping up what they have at the time and making it a "release", it is that it will be a shell of what was promised because what was promised was WAAAAAAY more than is doable in a single game.
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From the beginning, this is what a *lot* of us were warning about. This is Chris Robert's MO.

Even if the game *does* get released...what then? SIGs burn rate isn't sustainable unless the game his millions of subscribers, and even *if* all the systems work (which is unlikely) the sim elements will scare off so many that I can't see more then a hundred thousand or so sticking with it. My prediction is the studio just runs out of money within a year or two of release; they'd need millions of subscribers to maintain their current dev staff and I just don't see that happening.
 
As I’ve stated previously. About twice a year I reinstall the game to see how it’s going. It’s always some mix of amazing and game breaking bugs/mess , jank and disappointment.

After having my account since 2012 or something with a ship LTI and Squadron 42 ,whenever that comes out, I couldn’t care less anymore. I’ve seen what old accounts go for if you’re willing and maybe that’s the play here. Whatever they are doing with the game now is far different than the game I wanted and backed all those years ago.
 
RanceJustice said:
All the "big" space MMOs are a bit different from each other; I've played many of them over the years. For Star Citizen, as BassTek is mentioning the average price for a "game package " (ie comes with the Star Citizen account key, a ship of some type that is permanently bound to your account, hull insurance for said ship prepaid for a period of time, a hangar style related to the ship's size/price/manufacturer, and some ancillary bonuses depending) is around $45. Having the Star Citizen key on your account will give you full access to the Alpha whenever you wish, and will all you need for a game account come the full launch of the title.

When people talk about a "Star Citizen key" this is in reference to accsessing the public MMO universe at launch (and full access to the testing/ Alpha version of the public universe now, among other game modes) By contrast, there is also the separate-yet-related title "Squadron 42", which is designed as a single player, story and mission focused campaign akin to Wing Commander or the Lucasfilm space sims (X-wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing Alliance etc) launching in 2026. Playing and/or completing SQ42 will have some benefits in SC, but nothing "required" - Several years ago they decided to stop selling keys for SQ42 until it got closer to launch and they still haven't resumed yet, but some of us who were around back in the day have game packages that include both Star Citizen and Squadron 42 game keys, which can be a considerable discount for those interested in SQ42 as well.

I can give you some in-game goodies , and/or a wider array of game packages that may have extra content, save you money, or could otherwise be of interest. Feel free to PM if you like.
Click to expand...
Thank you,

I downloaded it yesterday. May check it out this weekend. I'll let you know if I decide to give it a go. :)
 
gamerk2 said:
From the beginning, this is what a *lot* of us were warning about. This is Chris Robert's MO.

Even if the game *does* get released...what then? SIGs burn rate isn't sustainable unless the game his millions of subscribers, and even *if* all the systems work (which is unlikely) the sim elements will scare off so many that I can't see more then a hundred thousand or so sticking with it. My prediction is the studio just runs out of money within a year or two of release; they'd need millions of subscribers to maintain their current dev staff and I just don't see that happening.
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Ya it seems like it will for sure be something that whatever it gets released as, that is probably going to be its final form. There may be enough players throwing enough money at it to sustain the servers and maybe do some maintenance type development, I mean there's a lot of old ass MMOs that exist on life support like that. However, I can't see it having the player base to bring in the money necessary to continue full-steam on development and keep growing.
 
RanceJustice said:
By contrast, there is also the separate-yet-related title "Squadron 42", which is designed as a single player, story and mission focused campaign akin to Wing Commander or the Lucasfilm space sims (X-wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing Alliance etc) launching in 2026
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Well, we'll see about that. Release dates "in a year or two" have been Roberts's MO for this project since about 2014.
 
TheHig said:
As I’ve stated previously. About twice a year I reinstall the game to see how it’s going. It’s always some mix of amazing and game breaking bugs/mess , jank and disappointment.

After having my account since 2012 or something with a ship LTI and Squadron 42 ,whenever that comes out, I couldn’t care less anymore. I’ve seen what old accounts go for if you’re willing and maybe that’s the play here. Whatever they are doing with the game now is far different than the game I wanted and backed all those years ago.
Click to expand...
What do those old accounts go for, out of curiosity? Is it more than an equivalent new account?
 
Bawjaws said:
Well, we'll see about that. Release dates "in a year or two" have been Roberts's MO for this project since about 2014.
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Ya I seem to recall more than once Squadron 42 was getting "close to release" and... well... I wouldn't get excited about any announced date until somethign is actually out.
 
Been having a ball, the game is getting better and better.

Finally, with the ability to easily travel back to other owned vehicles, I am living out of a mothership in the middle of nowhere, and having a fucking awesome time.

Ive loaded my Polaris up with an F7C Mk II, Gladius, and Arrow in the hangar. Plenty of room to refuel and rearm (when that is fully implemented; I have reloaded missiles, done repairs, and replaced lost weapons) - I dont consider "jamming em in like sardines" valid.
I carry an MTC and Cyclone MT in the garage/cargo for ground expeditions, and also a Golem and C8X, for mining and shuttle.

All vehicles can be taken in or out of hangar with zero "finesse" - they are parked straight down from the open hangar. I could fit an F8C instead of F7 if I wanted to tuck the tail or nose under near the elevators - but thats useless if the other fighters arent out of the way.
Same for the vehicles in the garage, with the minor exception that the golem and C8X both take about ~15 seconds of careful flight to get inside (The C8X can get inside nearly instantly with possible damage if necessary; ie commander being shuttled back as an attack starts). I do not consider this "gamebreaking" as, outside of a true emergency, you would never be in a critical rush to load or unload these two ships.


I mostly do bounty missions, and change the fighter I take depending how much effort I want to put in. If I *really* want to do something like cargo or mining, I carry an F7C mkII, Hull A, and golem in the hangar instead, allowing for mining, cargo, and bounties.


Regardless of the naysay, I love this game, and I have gotten far more than my moneys worth out of it in fun with friends and org activities. It just keeps getting better.

Watching enemies slice in, my Polaris turrets fire, the fighters rise from the hangar, and a defensive action take place is one of the single coolest things I have ever seen, and was worth all the pain in the ass shit until that point. Yes, it took effort to organize. But I cant wait to do it again.

The only improivment I pray they make is a server you can select with "Only star citizen related content" in general.
Look, I dont care what you want to talk about. I just dont want to read your bullshit in a tiny chat window which is the only default one in the game.
A server that requires SC related talk in the general channel is all i want. At this point, for me, as a relatively PVE and organized PVP player in a large org.... the game work for 90% of what I need and intend.
 
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FighterAce124 said:
Been having a ball, the game is getting better and better.

Finally, with the ability to easily travel back to other owned vehicles, I am living out of a mothership in the middle of nowhere, and having a fucking awesome time.

Ive loaded my Polaris up with an F7C Mk II, Gladius, and Arrow in the hangar. Plenty of room to refuel and rearm (when that is fully implemented; I have reloaded missiles, done repairs, and replaced lost weapons) - I dont consider "jamming em in like sardines" valid.
I carry an MTC and Cyclone MT in the garage/cargo for ground expeditions, and also a Golem and C8X, for mining and shuttle.

All vehicles can be taken in or out of hangar with zero "finesse" - they are parked straight down from the open hangar. I could fit an F8C instead of F7 if I wanted to tuck the tail or nose under near the elevators - but thats useless if the other fighters arent out of the way.
Same for the vehicles in the garage, with the minor exception that the golem and C8X both take about ~15 seconds of careful flight to get inside (The C8X can get inside nearly instantly with possible damage if necessary; ie commander being shuttled back as an attack starts). I do not consider this "gamebreaking" as, outside of a true emergency, you would never be in a critical rush to load or unload these two ships.


I mostly do bounty missions, and change the fighter I take depending how much effort I want to put in. If I *really* want to do something like cargo or mining, I carry an F7C mkII, Hull A, and golem in the hangar instead, allowing for mining, cargo, and bounties.


Regardless of the naysay, I love this game, and I have gotten far more than my moneys worth out of it in fun with friends and org activities. It just keeps getting better.

Watching enemies slice in, my Polaris turrets fire, the fighters rise from the hangar, and a defensive action take place is one of the single coolest things I have ever seen, and was worth all the pain in the ass shit until that point. Yes, it took effort to organize. But I cant wait to do it again.

The only improivment I pray they make is a server you can select with "Only star citizen related content" in general.
Look, I dont care what you want to talk about. I just dont want to read your bullshit in a tiny chat window which is the only default one in the game.
A server that requires SC related talk in the general channel is all i want. At this point, for me, as a relatively PVE and organized PVP player in a large org.... the game work for 90% of what I need and intend.
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So wtf, how would a new player with the most gimped ship limping along can fare with well seasoned players with armed forces equipped battle cruisers fair? Where would be the starting point? Second, how is the single player campaign if it has one?
 
It's a sandbox, not a PvP combat sim. You can generally join up and fart around learning until you get a little feel for things, and then just ask if anyone needs crew. I've probably made more money running on someone else's ship than anything else.
 
noko said:
So wtf, how would a new player with the most gimped ship limping along can fare with well seasoned players with armed forces equipped battle cruisers fair? Where would be the starting point? Second, how is the single player campaign if it has one?
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Squadron 42 has a supposed release date in 2026. Considering they've set release dates years in advanced only to miss them multiple times, I doubt 2026 will be the year it gets released.
 
Flogger23m said:
Squadron 42 has a supposed release date in 2026. Considering they've set release dates years in advanced only to miss them multiple times, I doubt 2026 will be the year it gets released.
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Been looking forward to this when completed, just not paying too much attention to it until it is finally confirmed, tested by a few reviewers so I can figure out even if I want to bother. Anyways any MP options just seems so skewed against any new players that it probably not be worth it. Unless game has ability for the advance players to be able to recruit new players into a team with all the baggage of total ignorance for most things. Sponsored players could be incentivized to recruit. Have no clue how this game will work out. AI?
 
noko said:
Been looking forward to this when completed, just not paying too much attention to it until it is finally confirmed, tested by a few reviewers so I can figure out even if I want to bother. Anyways any MP options just seems so skewed against any new players that it probably not be worth it. Unless game has ability for the advance players to be able to recruit new players into a team with all the baggage of total ignorance for most things. Sponsored players could be incentivized to recruit. Have no clue how this game will work out. AI?
Click to expand...

No idea, I haven't bothered downloading it in many years now.
 
noko said:
Been looking forward to this when completed, just not paying too much attention to it until it is finally confirmed, tested by a few reviewers so I can figure out even if I want to bother. Anyways any MP options just seems so skewed against any new players that it probably not be worth it. Unless game has ability for the advance players to be able to recruit new players into a team with all the baggage of total ignorance for most things. Sponsored players could be incentivized to recruit. Have no clue how this game will work out. AI?
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There is a free flight going on right now, check it out. No need to support an influencer, just as a space simulator/sandbox its an amazing experience, think of it more like a GTA Online experience, but with more people willing to do cooperative experiences (even more if an event is going on). There are two entire solar systems to explore with game loops and its not that hard to try the premium ships, either renting/buying them with in game credits or just "borrowing" them from a player. If you want to get creative (board), you can even steal really big ships to have fun with in the verse from NPCs.
 
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