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Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

JoeBlobers said:
Not hard to release it before (after 5 years od development) as CDPR have the same number of devs than CIG but already made over of past decades several others triple-A so they started CP2077 at full gear and up-to-date pipelines while CIG was 12 guys with zero studio or pipelines at end of kickstarter. Still CP2077 is a fraction of scope and tech than SQ42+SC.
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One day all of you will realize you backed Battlecruiser 3000 AD.

Also 12 guys is laughable for the amount of money scammed.
 
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The problem with SC is simple. It's Chris Roberts. The same old story as with what happened with Freelancer. The only reason why Freelancer ever saw the light of day was because Microsoft stepped in. Of course it didn't have all the bells and whistles Roberts wanted and envisioned. The same thing has been happening with SC for the past eight years where he just adds an endless list of shit to add to the game without even finishing the initial proposal and core of SC. For some reason this guy has his head up his own butt and doesn't realize the game could have been expanded upon after releasing a strong core and foundation - which they don't even have. And there is no Microsoft in the picture to reign him in this time. The only hope for this to come out in the next eight years, in my opinion, is to not enable him to be able to be all over the place by buying ships (flyable or hypothetical) and packages they offer. With the kind of money they apparently have streaming in I'm not surprised the servers can often barely manage 50 people and there is only one system with limited content after eight years. Glad I didn't buy into this at all. A friend had two accounts thrown to him by his cousin so I tried it. Uninstalled it after about an hour or so. By the time they probably get close to wrapping up whatever shit they're doing they will probably need to work on updating the engine too. Once this man began adding all the stretch bullshit to the crowdfunding he was basically waving his loony flag once again - and here we are eight years later watching him on his crazy hamster wheel in his own head.
 
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I would agree CR is his own worse enemy here. No one to put him in check when needed. Money does things to people. I got to say whoever does their marketing really knows how to do it well. The money keeps flowing in. This pandemic we have going on hasnt seem to slow income down either. At least from an outside perspective.
 
schizrade said:
Ok so it launches, sits in a queue, then crashes. Reinstalled 3 times same result... gave up. I tried this a few years back, but same result, it would never run.

Why are you trying to sell me on it? Lol, *if* they make it to release, I'll definitely get a copy. I have backed/crowdfunded plenty of things, Elite Dangerous was one of them. They started at the same time, Frontier however managed to get a game out and have expanded on it over the years. If after 8 years I can't install a demo client and fly a ship around without rolling back system driver's etc, I'll just keep waiting until they get something more coherent out. I do plenty of tinkering/configuring/troubleshooting etc all day at work, I just want to come home and play games, not fiddle with shit lol.

Guess I'll check back in 2021.
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Queue for what exactly? Did it provide any error when it crashed? Usually any particular ones of note on a given build are discussed on the forums and/or given an announcement posting if they're common enough to warrant it. As previously mentioned, there's the additional congestion of the free-fly event, but this is the kind of thing when some troubleshooting may be required. While I have in the past had to do some troubleshooting like Ripskin mentions (I had an ancient, months old version that didn't patch up correctly and required a reinstall - this was well documented on the forums, but I didn't look until I ran into the problem), I can't say I've had difficulty logging in on Alpha 3.9.1 currently save for congestion related stuff, so I'm not sure what point you're running into problems.

As it seemed you were new and possibly unfamiliar with the game, I was just attempting to describe how things worked and that if you had a positive experience and wanted to buy, that you could do so at lower-than-standard prices or otherwise get a better value in certain circumstances. You'd be surprised how many are unaware of the parameters of the game keys, what you need to be a "full" backer and the like; misconceptions certainly not helped by the trolling/misinformation. Funny you mentioned Elite Dangerous because its a great case study for comparison and one could make a whole post on that alone, but suffice it to say that many would describe its overall experience as "meh" ; I backed it as well and it is not a bad game, but it isnt in my mind a particularly good one either, much less one providing SC level depth, immersion, and other mechanics that inspire people to play. - and that's fully finished, after all this time and following the traditional development structure. Now for some, Elite Dangerous may be exactly what they wish, but for many it is midding-to-forgettable and for very few it seems to have the interest and desire as compared to Star Citizen. They're ultimately very different games doing very different things, and this is why one can't expect to just expect SC to have done things "The Elite Dangerous way" and expected them to come out with a SC scale product. Star Citizen's depth and immersion is predicated on technologies and implementations that have never before been offered and/or not anywhere near on this scale. This requires a lot of work at underlying layers and the will and finances to say "we need to improve this / bring old stuff up to new stuff / try again " in a way that is near anathema to typical AAA development processes.

Your desire to not have to troubleshoot anything is certainly your prerogative, but I agree its probably best to wait on the game for now. However, I'm not sure its any more correct to consider it a failure of the game that you've run into these problems than it would be for me to go the other way and say "works fine for me, must be a you issue, not a game issue". From the very beginning of public builds, CIG has been open about the development process and that when they say (pre) "alpha" they mean it . It probably isn't ready for those who are not willing to troubleshoot, deal with things going wrong now and again, lacking features or polish etc. I'd say this about any title that had a "real" player-accessible pre-/alpha build - its not for everyone and that's okay. Everyone has a different threshold of what they enjoy and how things balance out : hell, I'm a Linux-preferring kinda guy so while I love when things go perfectly smoothly when gaming (a factor that happens more and more frequently) i'm often willing to put up with a little troubleshooting and messing around if it gives me a flawless/nearly so experience on my OS of choice. Hopefully you'll be able to enjoy SC one day.

odditory said:
Wow. I have no words.
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Aireoth said:
sounds like something a drug dealer would say, don't do drugs kids!
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Is it really such an audacious notion?

Its a very common practice among crowdfunded and otherwise early access using titles to give some sort of bonus/discoun to earlier backers, in recognition that they were there to support the title when it needed it early on or in deference to the idea that the title early backers experienced had lesser content/polish and therefore would cost less.. There are many examples of this in Kickstarter projects - Divinity Original Sin 2 had a campaign price of $27-30, whereas the standard price currently for purchase is $45. Here are a couple of examples from Steam Early Access titles.

Random indie title soon to launch into EA via Steam on the 27th, "Mists of Noyah" has the following in their EA Q&A - "Q: Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access? A: We believe in giving advantages to our early supporters, so the current Early Access price will be raised gradually as we ship new content and features.".
Sequel to the aquatic survival phenomenon, "Subnautica: Below Zero" - "Q: Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access? A: The price of Subnautica Below Zero will increase by 25% when we release the finished version.” .

In fact, that that Q wording is part of the Steam Early Access questionnaire boilerplate so while not every game chooses this policy - some are full price from the get-go - but its inclusion speaks to the commonality. In any event, Star Citizen's implementation is neither unusual (as noted previously) nor insidious. From the beginning CIG noted they wanted to offer benefits to early backers and that things would change throughout development until coming to the final retail prices and policies. The standard price of each game key - for Star Citizen and Squadron 42 as independent titles - has long been scheduled at standard AAA $60, at and post launch. However, there are myriad opportunities during the game's development to get your keys for cheaper, both as a standard price and even larger discounts through special promotions. During the first few years, all game packages included both SC + SQ42 keys and could be had for around $35-40 (a few promos dipped even lower, the lowest I can remember being $25). As things progressed there were gradual changes, but even at current (barring special promotions which go even lower) you can get both SC + SQ42 keys for a total of $65 when purchased together. There are other crowdfunding examples in game with this in mind, such as how ships/other content are typically at their cheapest during their announcement/concept reveal. Ultimately, there's nothing too unusual here neither in comparison to other game titles nor regarding CIG's own policies; the "early buyers/backers get things cheaper/extra etc.." hasn't been uncommon anywhere in the gaming industry. Hell, I have "gold" NES/Famicom cartridges of The Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link (not to mention later titles like Ocarina of Time ) because I bought during the early pressing where they were colored thusly - later buyers had regular grey cartridges. So let us not pretend that this is some extravagance of CIG somehow.
 
I'd set the FOV something less then, fisheye can definitely cause motion sickness... I usually run pretty high FOV, but in SC I turn it down toward it's lower setting.
 
Armenius said:
You don't need a budget for your project if people keep sending you free money.
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This is the only reason why I continue to post in this thread: informed new users may run away before they're indoctrinated into the Scripture of Roberts, and send the church half their money!

His current Whales following The Teaching won't last forever, but it's hard to combat a self-sustaining religion full of crackpots :rolleyes:

I'm going to laugh in 2030 Chris announces to his Holy Followers the Alpha release of their second star system, making Star Citizen like no other MMO on the planet!
 
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JoeBlobers said:
Not hard to release it before (after 5 years od development) as CDPR have the same number of devs than CIG but already made over of past decades several others triple-A so they started CP2077 at full gear and up-to-date pipelines while CIG was 12 guys with zero studio or pipelines at end of kickstarter. Still CP2077 is a fraction of scope and tech than SQ42+SC.
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Unlike CDPR who had to earn money before they started their next game, CIG was handed 200m+ upfront to buy anything they needed. The lack of studio, or team doesn't mean much, all they have to do is swipe their card and have the market's best.

i don't think some people understand why time is important in making games.
If you are a developer and have '10 years - made star citizen' in your resume, no one is gonna hire you. You are dead as a developer. 2~3 years of career hiccup is understandable, but not 10.
So, any decent programmers are gonna jump off the ship, and no freaking way they are gonna attract new talents without paying premium. Shit snowballs hard, team gets destroyed and you are left with people who can't pull off what they started, or have different ideas, and have to re-do things, and repeat.

They might as well just start over with a new name.
 
infojunkie said:
Unlike CDPR who had to earn money before they started their next game, CIG was handed 200m+ upfront to buy anything they needed. The lack of studio, or team doesn't mean much, all they have to do is swipe their card and have the market's best.

i don't think some people understand why time is important in making games.
If you are a developer and have '10 years - made star citizen' in your resume, no one is gonna hire you. You are dead as a developer. 2~3 years of career hiccup is understandable, but not 10.
So, any decent programmers are gonna jump off the ship, and no freaking way they are gonna attract new talents without paying premium. Shit snowballs hard, team gets destroyed and you are left with people who can't pull off what they started, or have different ideas, and have to re-do things, and repeat.

They might as well just start over with a new name.
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Not only that, but the long development time guarantees that any technological leap or edge the game would have had will be at best be on par, if not completely gone. If SC isn't full release by 2026 it will be dated by new technologies (like RTX).
 
Aireoth said:
Not only that, but the long development time guarantees that any technological leap or edge the game would have had will be at best be on par, if not completely gone. If SC isn't full release by 2026 it will be dated by new technologies (like RTX).
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Don't give them any ideas. I'm sure they may try and shoehorn in RTX to their build of Cryengine. A huge part of the problem is Cryengine just wasn't suitable for this type of game. But they're knee deep in it now and even switching to a newer build would be a pain. I'm not sure how much Amazon's fork benefits from the newest Crytek builds.
 
Flogger23m said:
Don't give them any ideas. I'm sure they may try and shoehorn in RTX to their build of Cryengine. A huge part of the problem is Cryengine just wasn't suitable for this type of game. But they're knee deep in it now and even switching to a newer build would be a pain. I'm not sure how much Amazon's fork benefits from the newest Crytek builds.
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its coming, we all know it.
 
termite said:
Which is funny, because it is true.

I fully expect another 3 year delay because they need to rewrite the game code to move to a new engine, or add "insert random feature 37".
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I think you got it backwards. They need a new excuse every 3 years why it isn't done yet, and what's better than the "need" to move to a new engine?
 
M76 said:
I think you got it backwards. They need a new excuse every 3 years why it isn't done yet, and what's better than the "need" to move to a new engine?
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Well, you know benefit of doubt and all that.

No, you're probably right.
 
I really do enjoy games like this. For me though Elite Dangerous takes the bread at least for what I enjoy. They have a great premise for the game and they really are doing good work. But I feel like they have been in Beta for years and I know a lot of people want to know when the official game will launch.

So I'm hesitant for many reasons as it seems that this is a money pot that just keeps on going.
It's frustrating. It's also good to read that CR has done this before so I don't feel as crazy as I thought I did.
 
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monsteromen said:
I really do enjoy games like this. For me though Elite Dangerous takes the bread at least for what I enjoy. They have a great premise for the game and they really are doing good work. But I feel like they have been in Beta for years and I know a lot of people want to know when the official game will launch.

So I'm hesitant for many reasons as it seems that this is a money pot that just keeps on going.
It's frustrating. It's also good to read that CR has done this before so I don't feel as crazy as I thought I did.
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I agree on Elite Dangerous being great for the flight piece of Star Citizen. I do feel the lack of ability to land on planets and do things on them makes things get old after a while. Between Engineering and mining (in part to get better engineering) it is easy to burn out on Elite. That, the hour+ shuttle missions to try to get cash and the work to get Guardian stuff unlocked were the last straw on my burnout. Now i just log in occasionally for some quick combat.
I would like a hybrid of Elite flight model and No Man's Sky ability to do things on the planets.
 
ThatITGuy said:
I agree on Elite Dangerous being great for the flight piece of Star Citizen. I do feel the lack of ability to land on planets and do things on them makes things get old after a while. Between Engineering and mining (in part to get better engineering) it is easy to burn out on Elite. That, the hour+ shuttle missions to try to get cash and the work to get Guardian stuff unlocked were the last straw on my burnout. Now I just log in occasionally for some quick combat.
I would like a hybrid of Elite flight model and No Man's Sky ability to do things on the planets.
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Yeah, I agree with you on the burn out regarding mining. It's rough and can make the game not very fun. They did come out with a DLC that allows planetside landings and exploration which gives it a lot more to do either way I see your point.
 
Has the persistence issue been fixed yet? Is there any detailed rundown on it available or is it still in the 'we are figuring it out' phase. I think they are going to be fighting an increasingly steep battle to shove all this stuff into a FPS engine, they still have janky movement of ships and players let alone all the rest of the weird bugs.
I have expected them to change to a different engine for a while lol.
 
Banyan said:
The problem with SC is simple. It's Chris Roberts. The same old story as with what happened with Freelancer. The only reason why Freelancer ever saw the light of day was because Microsoft stepped in. Of course it didn't have all the bells and whistles Roberts wanted and envisioned. The same thing has been happening with SC for the past eight years where he just adds an endless list of shit to add to the game without even finishing the initial proposal and core of SC. For some reason this guy has his head up his own butt and doesn't realize the game could have been expanded upon after releasing a strong core and foundation - which they don't even have. And there is no Microsoft in the picture to reign him in this time. The only hope for this to come out in the next eight years, in my opinion, is to not enable him to be able to be all over the place by buying ships (flyable or hypothetical) and packages they offer. With the kind of money they apparently have streaming in I'm not surprised the servers can often barely manage 50 people and there is only one system with limited content after eight years. Glad I didn't buy into this at all. A friend had two accounts thrown to him by his cousin so I tried it. Uninstalled it after about an hour or so. By the time they probably get close to wrapping up whatever shit they're doing they will probably need to work on updating the engine too. Once this man began adding all the stretch bullshit to the crowdfunding he was basically waving his loony flag once again - and here we are eight years later watching him on his crazy hamster wheel in his own head.
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Yuo hit the nail on the head here. But I also think the money he. his wife and brother, is making out of this is a very important factor in why this will seemingly never be finished. Nobody knows what the Chairman pays himself, I am sure that people would be aghast if they ever found out.
 
Looks like Star Citizen is coming along nicely! Wait a minute...



Yep, Elite Dangerous is basically turning into what SC was supposed to be... inch by inch... in the form of an ever evolving, growing, and actually playable game. It appears that FPS elements and planetary atmo are now being worked in for release early next year. Imagine where ED would be right now with the kinds of unbelievably stupid money that have been thrown/dumped into SC ever since it first launched as a kickstarter back in 2013. I think I made the right move by buying a Lifetime Expansion Pass for ED early on. Hoping they retain all the game's VR capabilties as well going forward - which I expect they will. ED may not have tons of depth yet, but it is certainly moving along in the right direction! :)
 
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Supercharged_Z06 said:
Looks like Star Citizen is coming along nicely! Wait a minute...



Yep, Elite Dangerous is basically turning into what SC was supposed to be... inch by inch... in the form of an ever evolving, growing, and actually playable game. It appears that FPS elements and planetary atmo are now being worked in for release early next year. Imagine where ED would be right now with the kinds of unbelievably stupid money that have been thrown/dumped into SC ever since it first launched as a kickstarter back in 2013. I think I made the right move by buying a Lifetime Expansion Pass for ED early on. Hoping they retain all the game's VR capabilties as well going forward - which I expect they will. ED may not have tons of depth yet, but it is certainly moving along in the right direction! :)
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Not going to lie.... I am pretty excited about this. Plus I am about a week in to the Index wait list.
I still think Engineering and Mining need to be reworked to be less annoying, and it would be nice to have base building, even though i get Fleet Carriers are supposed to sort of fill that gap.
 
Obsidian Ant reported on verification from Frontier that Odyssey will not support VR at launch.

As far as Star Citizen goes, when pigs fly and it's done, there's going to be massive problems due to the devs cash cow of selling ships to wallet warriors. I read up a bit on Robert's lame dismissal of pay-to-win by saying there is no real winning the game and that winning is having fun.
 
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Banyan said:
Obsidian Ant reported on verification from Frontier that Odyssey will not support VR at launch.
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Odds are very good that VR support will be added though. A large portion of ED's hardcore fanbase is made up of dedicated VR users. ED is often held up as an example of the premier VR space sim out there. I really can't see Frontier completely abandoning VR support, especially as the tech continues to evolve and even more capable GPU hardware is about to arrive this Fall.

If not, then we certainly have Chris Robert's paragon of a Space Sim to look forward to with absolutely stellar VR support NLT 2050 when the 1 billion in funding mark is reached. I'll be 84 then, so I'm hoping to be able to enjoy it for at least a year or two before I croak.
 
polonyc2 said:
Star Citizen funding hits $300 million

Cloud Imperium Games have another Star Citizen funding milestone on their hands, with an unbelievable $300 million sourced from the community, after a particularly successful week at the end of May 2020...

https://www.altchar.com/game-news/s...on-as-people-buy-4600-ship-packs-apTay1q7BQPv
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You almost forgot the great news to go along with it!
1) Docking has been delayed indefinitely.
2) The elevator panel rework was delayed.
3) There is another sale this week!
 
At this rate it won’t be out mid 2030/early 2040 (assuming we will get more than 1 system). Partially due to engine rewrites to support the newer instruction sets.

Right now I just want SQ42 to come out. The PU can die in a fire since it will consist of tons of partially implemented good ideas/intentions.
 
defaultluser said:
And will that three hundred million be enough money to finally finish the Stanton system?
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some interesting parts of that article:

- Between May 26 and June 1, 2020, Star Citizen backers pledged around $8 million. That is less than one week, meaning it was significantly more than $1 million per day (I guess a lot of rich people are backing this game)

- Overall, it shows that the Star Citizen community still has confidence in Chris Roberts' vision and that the game will release properly :)
 
relapse808 said:
it's a fucking joke to say I gave this dickwad money in 2012....seriously pathetic.
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Even though CR was known for needing an outsider to step in to finally drag his projects across the finish line, I actually think Star Citizen started out with honest enough intentions to create the ultimate space sim. But as the years passed, it became a jobs program, whereby they realized that perpetually selling hope and the idea of the ultimate space sim was far more profitable than actually finishing a game.

So they painted themselves into a corner since ever declaring it "finished" or "released" would turn off the money-printing machine, because then it could actually be scrutinized and examined- "wait a minute, this isn't even a real game". By perpetually remaining "in-development" it grants them immunity against valid concerns that even after 8 years it still looks and plays like a wonky techdemo, because "hey man give 'em a break, its still in development".

So in retrospect this project was kind of genius from a revenue generation aspect, but purely by accident.
 
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