4x seems a bit abnormal, but Acti marketed the hell out of MW2. The game was everywhere that year. A lot of AAA publishers seem to spend as much, or more, on marketing as production but it just depends on the game and the publisher.
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Star Citizen Backers No Longer Able to Get Refunds
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4x seems a bit abnormal, but Acti marketed the hell out of MW2. The game was everywhere that year. A lot of AAA publishers seem to spend as much, or more, on marketing as production but it just depends on the game and the publisher.
Flogger23m
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Not a whole lot apparently.
Roughly 6 year development cycle with no end in sight, despite having a very large budget.
No, the game is little more than a tech demo as it is right now. Everything looks shoddy, clunky, boring and not what a game should be. Until that changes not many are going to sing praise for it, especially when the customers have sunk millions into the project. Getting half the job done is nothing worthy of praise.
Based on the PTU this hasn't been true for a while now.[/QUOTE]
CIG put out dates for certain milestones which were not reached. These dates were missed, and therefore the game was late. SQ42 would have been essentially a Wing Commander like experience which is something that is relatively easy to pull off. It's also something that Chris Roberts had experience with. This was the first milestone listed, and it's YEARS late. Games miss target dates all the time, but usually they don't miss them by more than 3 to 6 months, or even a year. When they are years behind, it's usually not a good sign that the game will ever see the light of day and if it does, its usually a dated and irrelevant mess by then.
The Alpha is all they've given us. Its the current state of the game. It's also a clusterfuck. Its very little content, it crashes, it's unreliable etc. and it's years late. Do you see the problem?
I've covered this and while the total package (in theory) is somewhat unique, this isn't as revolutionary as you think it is. Most of what's being done in Star Citizen has been done before.
No, that's not normal. It's Activision and CoD is a huge money maker for them. At the time, CoD games all set the record for game sales and profitability. Therefore, the marketing costs make some sense. As I understand it, movies tend to double the total production cost of a film. A movie like A Star Wars Story: Solo cost 250 million to make and something like 150-200 million in world wide marketing. This is why it was stated that the film had to gross at least half a billion dollars to break even.
It was a long project (5-6 years) in development that actually saw the light of day. It's listed in the Guiness Book of World Records as being the largest voice over project in history. This was largely the reason for the high cost. The game wasn't as successful as EA/BioWare had hoped, but it made its money back and still gets content updates to this day.
Nanogrip
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Star Citizen backers were f*cked hard in the ass and now they want their virginity back? That ain't gonna work hahahaha!
Airbrushkid
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SC fanboys remind of the Apple fans. Both to blind for there own good.
M76
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Man you're every con artist's dream. I'll sell you a house contract and only show youtube videos and jpgs of it, and then I can string you on for a decade. Yes we're working on it, I assure you, look at all these youtube videos, where we are talking about working on it! And look at these jpegs of the bathroom sink and the toilet! We already hired a group of carpenters as well, they're not working now, but I assure you the carpentry is all done, despite not having any walls standing yet!
Yeah, that is how sc / squadron42 looks to anyone who has even the slightest understanding of how a game development should progress.
M76
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Great I'll reserve judgement to when I see any of it, and I mean ANYTHING of it, on my own screen. Until then it is vaporware. I don't know how that sequence was created, how much of it is real. Do you remember the HL2 demo that they showed, that turned out to be all staged? And not actual finished gameplay content? Or the DNF E3 demos, that amounted to exactly nothing?
They have spent more time on Star Citizen than they did on SQ42, we can agree on that, no? And what they have to show for it in 3.2 is scary! As in scary little.
As an original kickstarter backer, who raised his pledge twice, after 6 years I wish to see something tangible, not a video that might be faked. They know that people think sq42 is vaporware. So if it is really as advanced in development as you believe then they could easily release a one mission demo from it. That they don't do that tells me more than a thousand hours of youtube videos.
At least there's admittance from SC backers that Chris Roberts has royally screwed up his target dates. Every year, the threads regarding SC usually have backers reiterating that the next big target(s) for the game would absolutely meet deadline. I'm not seeing some of the familiar names on this thread.
That's a poor comparison. Apple actually delivers products to their fans. They also don't ask their fans to front them cash for future products, then keep pumping them for even more cash when they utterly fail to finish their products in a timely fashion.
I don't use any Apple stuff myself, but I would never denigrate even their most rabid fans by comparing them to Star Citizen apologists.
Legit question that everyone glosses over. When is the projected finish date 2020? 2022?
Real question.
Airbrushkid
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No but it seems that if a Apple product breaks and the way some of these Apple fans are. They think that they broke the product and defend Apple. Even though they had nothing to do with the product breaking. That's Apple's fault. And Star Citizen fans will just keep throwing money at it. Even though there is no real game yet. And cannot see that just maybe there will never be a game. But again maybe but in 15 - 20 years from now when I am dead an in the ground!
Like I said to both to blind.
M76
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Exactly. What we have so far looks promising, but it is too little way too late. The state of the released version shows a project in it's infancy. If it took them 6 years to get here, the outlook is really bad on when can it become an actual game and not a pre-alpha tech demo.
M76
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Yeah, shrivel up in hate, and use ad-hominems. That should prove your point! Or perhaps you should try addressing the elephant in the room. Why does it look like a project that is barely off the ground?
You know you don't have answers, and you don't have facts, you only have faith. And faith is what people use to justify their actions when they have no real reasons.
So don't talk about ignorance, when you're the one reveling in wilful ignorance of all the red flags, and all evidence pointing to the development being off the rails late.
motomonkey
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Actually, that post was referring to the first one I made, get your facts straight, and, I think enough posts covering the progress of SC have already covered the pertinent details of why most consider CIG a massive clusterfuck. Is it scam? not really. is it a failure? based on the stated goals of the kickstarter I signed up for, yes.
Is it a Cult? well, you certainly have a lot of True Believers who are taking on faith that the massive pile of money spent so far was used properly. But maybe the Chosen one will turn water in to wine before the End Times (Bankruptcy) is upon us. gotta have faith.
After years of watching the "Evidence" on Youtube, and walking around my ship in that stuttering mess of a hanger module. I stopped bothering with watching the Propaganda messages from the Chosen one. I don't even remember my login after I refused to accept the bullshit changes to the EULA and TOS the last time I was on that page.
Ah see, that's the thing. Just because someone supported/supports Star Citizen, its automatically a cult.
What a bunch of bullshit. THat whole "cult" thing, the whole "scam" thing and the whole "90 days tops thing" are all the inventions of Derek Smart. The same guy who couldn't even get his off shored space sim working...
Like what? You still cannot land on anything with an atmosphere. You still don't have space legs. You don't have even the number of ships that SC has in the current Alpha. You don't have space legs (and no that forced perspective stuff with VR is NOT space legs), you don't have player controlled orgs and fleets (Alliances still don't work like they should).
I loved playing Elite. Until Frontier released Engineers. But that doesn't change the fact its a billion miles wide and not very deep at all.
You keep using that word... Ponzi... but have yet to provide one shred of evidence that SC is any type of scame.
Do you just cut and paste stuff from Derek's twitter feed? Or is it his "blog"?
Lord knows he couldn't pay you to be his shrill, he doesn't even pay his mortgage!
motomonkey
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Oh, shit. Better tell all the people who play it every day that... they can't.
oldmanbal
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Problem is all the initial investors money is completely gone and they are now relying on new purchases and additional players to float the project that has grown to a scope untnable with the current player base.
M76
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What, you thought the goalpost was a video diary? That's entirely your mistake. Not to mention that I already saw that video last time I had this conversation many months ago.
motomonkey
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Why bother, most of them realize they are playing an incomplete pre alpha test version.Only a few true believers think that’s good enough...
Mr. Bluntman
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I don't recall MechWarrior 2 getting that much of an advertising budget...
/s
Fucking awesome game though! Especially the PowerVR or 3dfx enhanced versions!
So by your own admission it's just "a few" people who think the current state is "good enough", but even that in itself is a highly conditional claim. "Good enough" for what? For the current state of development? For a complete game? And if they're outliers, then what does it matter? Why are we talking about them?
Regardless, we're again moving the goalposts; you strongly implied that SC can't be played despite people actively playing it, but here you admit they are playing it, albeit in an incomplete state. See how hyperbole can make you look inconsistent and dishonest?
D
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FearTheCow
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How many planets/objects can you land on I SC? What can you do when you land?
When did space legs become the benchmark for SC being better than other games?
How many playable ships are in SC? How many are unique and not a variant? How many are still in development and how many did CR promise?
How many people can play on a server in SC? Are the servers stable?
What can someone who buys into SC today do at this point?
Funny. Just last night, I was able to wake up in Port Olisar, walk down to Dumpers Depot, pick up a small delivery of ores, bring it out to my Avenger Titan, load it up, fly off, spool up my Q-drive, get interdicted, blow up two pirate Auroras and one Cutlass, took some heavy damage, landed at a moon and deliver the ore, but got jumped by two PC's with some type of laser rifle as I tried to get back to my ship, killed one with my pistol, and the other ran off, made some space bucks, flew back to Olisar, parked the ship in an orbit around the station, crawled into bed and logged out.
I don't know about anyone else, but that sure seems to me like I'm playing.
And its actually more fun than Elite Dangerous currently is.
Yep, to me it is. Why the fuck do people have such sticks up there asses that folks can actually still have fun with an early alpha?
Wow, that's bitter.
We all follow games waiting for release, sometimes for years. Hell, Fallout and Elder Scrolls are good examples of games that take a while.
The difference between those and Star Citizen, is that for all their flaws, Bethesda delivers. Chris Roberts... is just not good at that, left to his own devices.
You should be concerned about a developer that cannot hit a single milestone on their timeline, but if you're not... hey, it's your money.
Well there are literally thousands of asteroids you can land on, a few moons, some space stations and some other areas. But then again, Star Citizen is in beta. How many atmospheric worlds/moons can you land on in Elite? What can I do when I land? I can actually get out of my ship and walk then entire surface of whatever I landed on, including buildings and bases and such.
Space legs is what it is. Something Elite talked about in the early days, but never (so far) materialized.
How many playable ships currently, I think 32 or 33 (NOT INCLUDING VARIANTS): Reclaimer, Eclipse, Hurricane, Terrapin, Dragonfly, Hornet (and it's variants), P-52, Herald, Khartu-Al, Saber (and its variants), Mustang (and variants), Gladius (and variants), Gladiator, Starfarer (and variant), Vangaurd, Retaliator, Constellation (and variants), Avenger (and variants), Aurora (and variants), 600i, 300 series (and variants), Freelancer, M50, Caterpillar, Cutlass (and variants), Reliant, Glaive, Blade, Prospector, MPUV, 85X, Razor, Nox.
How many are in development? Lots. I think like 26 more (not including variants). How many were promised? From the initial kickstarter? Because Chris "promised" less than we currently have.
I've seen 50+ in one group on servers. And it was OK. Are the servers stable? Not all the time, why should they be? Its an early alpha still.
What can someone do? Depends.
motomonkey
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not sure how you managed to infer all that out of me basically saying SC isn't done yet. Dishonest? inconsistent? see how making things up can make you look like an ass?
Bethesda delivers what?
Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls are all much lower rated than previous games released. More than likely due to the rush of getting them out. Or maybe incompetience?
Not to mention their releases were:
1.) Using already existing engines that didn't need much work.
2.) Using already in place development teams that worked on previous versions of said games
Both of those are rather massive boosts.
Don't be obtuse.
You clearly said "Hate to break the news to you, but I can actually play Elite.... SC? not so much."
People CAN play SC. Some play it quite a lot.
SO which one is it, can one play SC right now, or not?
It is, but I kinda feel that it's justified. Look at all the hate that's directed at anyone who tries to speak positively about Star Citizen. You'll be attacked over character, intellect, integrity, accused of being part of a cult. And for what? Suggesting that the game is decent? That it's playable? That maybe the delays, funding, and scope are justified and some day it might be a good game?
It's silly to dispute the facts: Chris Roberts is bad at deadlines, milestones, feature creep, public speaking, whatever. In a serious discussion between rational people, no one's going to argue those points. But in a serious discussion neither person is going to accuse the other of being in a cult for disagreeing, of being a "fanboi" for a differing opinion, or being blind, stupid, or gullible for offering an honest assessment of the subject.
Star Citizen is playable. Right now. It's got a massive scope that encompasses some really cool tech. It's also way behind schedule because of feature creep and we'd all like to have had a finished product in our hands by now. All of these things can be said without resorting to insults. So why is every thread about SC such a clusterfuck of douchebaggery?
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Right on the nose.
I put as much money into funding Star Citizen as I did Elite Dangerous, Kingdom Come, Decent: Underground and Battletech, and a lot more into MechWarrior Online. But because I happen to enjoy what I'm currently playing in Star Citizen, for some reason that makes me a fanboi, especially if I choose to post something positive about my experience in the game.
Are there some idiots supporting Star Citizen? Of course there are, just like any other game.
Is Star Citizen seriously late? Absolutely, without any doubt.
Is that frustrating at times? Of course it is.
Is the game MUCH larger in scope than what was originally planed? Fuck yes... very much so.
I really want to know why it is that people quickly accept the words of a horribly failed video game developer who frequently lies about contacts in the industry, lies about insider knowledge, lies about his education and frequently Doxxes folks just because he can...
One just has to look at HardOCP posting that article about refunds. All the information comes from Skippy's blog and tweets... and some of the editors and mods on this very thread make claims that it's a scam. With zero evidence.
Trepidati0n
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I think warframe will beat star citizen to the punch before star citizen does the way this is going.
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