Stadia not so good after all?

Mazzspeed

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It seems like you two are arguing the same thing, on the same side.
I honestly believe that people don't think the constraints of time/physics play a part in relation to data transfer between two locations on a very vast and fairly inefficient global network..
 

Aireoth

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I honestly believe that people don't think the constraints of time/physics play a part in relation to data transfer between two locations on a very vast and fairly inefficient global network..
But that isn't what Aix is saying, it really seems like you two are just talking past each other to some imagined straw man.

You: Latency exists and physics limits the speed of transfer.

Him: Local run clients create the illusion of latency free gameplay as long as the server agrees, which is a factor of latency.

I mean, your both right, and Stadia doesn't have any local client so the quality of the experience is entirely a factor of latency and physics.
 

T4rd

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lol!
They solved the speed of light everyone!!!!!!!!!
They're actually putting black holes in every Stadia client, so you may end up in your daughters bedroom from 20 years ago trying to communicate with her by knocking books off the shelf and tampering with a watch to send the Morse code message of "Stadia bad. Buckets to 11 for negative latency."
 

Aix.

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But that isn't what Aix is saying, it really seems like you two are just talking past each other to some imagined straw man.

You: Latency exists and physics limits the speed of transfer.

Him: Local run clients create the illusion of latency free gameplay as long as the server agrees, which is a factor of latency.

I mean, your both right, and Stadia doesn't have any local client so the quality of the experience is entirely a factor of latency and physics.
I was simply explaining a long- and widely-used tech and how it compares to this new service. I even posted a link explaining how it works in Source.

Mazz seems compelled to argue that lag compensation is a myth. Perhaps he is a savant that can detect minute differences in latency, but there are plenty of games running right now where latency is effectively imperceptible to the players thanks to this technique. That is, after all, the purpose of the technique and its effectiveness under ideal conditions is not really up for debate.
 

Aireoth

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I was simply explaining a long- and widely-used tech and how it compares to this new service. I even posted a link explaining how it works in Source.

Mazz seems compelled to argue that lag compensation is a myth. Perhaps he is a savant that can detect minute differences in latency, but there are plenty of games running right now where latency is effectively imperceptible to the players thanks to this technique. That is, after all, the purpose of the technique and its effectiveness under ideal conditions is not really up for debate.
It’s only imperceptible if you have a good ping , even then I notice it in games like counter strike.
 

Aix.

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It’s only imperceptible if you have a good ping , even then I notice it in games like counter strike.
The only reason it was even mentioned is because it smooths out the experience for the player, and it's the current method for easing the pains of latency in gaming. This method will not be available for Stadia, and I have to think that there is a big difference between:
  • click -> shoot -> 50ms -> processed by server; and
  • click -> 50 ms -> processed and rendered by server -> 50 ms -> shoot
It's like guaranteed input lag equal to your ping.
 

Mazzspeed

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Mazz seems compelled to argue that lag compensation is a myth. Perhaps he is a savant that can detect minute differences in latency, but there are plenty of games running right now where latency is effectively imperceptible to the players thanks to this technique. That is, after all, the purpose of the technique and its effectiveness under ideal conditions is not really up for debate.
I never argued such a point at all. I highlighted the quite factual point that it takes time for data to travel between point A and point B and back again and this is the reason for the latency statistic highlighted in literally every in game server browser. Tick rates do not completely overcome physics over vast distances, tick rates and client update rates merely synchronize the transfer of data packets, it still takes time to send and receive those packets of data - This is where latency is noticeable.

Him: Local run clients create the illusion of latency free gameplay as long as the server agrees, which is a factor of latency.
Which still doesn't totally overcome the unavoidable issues related to latency over vast distances.
 
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Armenius

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After Doom Eternal was brought up I just realized that this was probably Stadia's "killer app" that was supposed to launch alongside it. Now that Eternal was pushed back to March I wonder if Google is now sweating bullets.
More than speed of light network. :ROFLMAO:
Quantum entanglement for the win.
So absolute best case scenario people will be looking at 30ms lag (15 up, 15 back), average is going to be more like 60-120. Add in standard input lag for tv gaming of 40-50ms and it starts adding up. Then you have to accept that your ping isn’t going to be stable, little Johnny hops on the network, wife starts watching Netflix, someone downloads something, or just general network issues outside your home.

Next, what do most people play for games? FPS by far, most casuals won’t have much interest in rpgs and rts’ that are deeper than a cellphone game.

Seems like this isn’t going to be much of an experience under anything less than ideal circumstances.
I believe it was posted in an earlier thread discussing Stadia, but Google themselves gave examples of the lag in their testing. I think the best case scenario was around 80 ms including input lag on your display. Average was 140 ms. Yeah, no thanks.
 

GoodBoy

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Oh they did? 80ms best case, 140ms average... ugh.

I mean, maybe console players are already used to those approximate latencies?

PC gamers not going to like it. cyberreality has one on order and going to let us know how it plays.
 

Aireoth

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Oh they did? 80ms best case, 140ms average... ugh.

I mean, maybe console players are already used to those approximate latencies?

PC gamers not going to like it. cyberreality has one on order and going to let us know how it plays.
Console players aren’t used to that at all, I get about 80ms on my tv between ping and input lag, which gets white washed by tick rates into a mostly seem-less experience.

Take playing COD for example, I would need to add a minimum of 30ms to that for transmission to google and back, or more likely 60+ on average. I would be in the 140ms range easily, which is noticeable and frustrating.
 

Armenius

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Oh they did? 80ms best case, 140ms average... ugh.

I mean, maybe console players are already used to those approximate latencies?

PC gamers not going to like it. cyberreality has one on order and going to let us know how it plays.
Here is the PC Gamer article on it:
https://www.pcgamer.com/au/i-tried-googles-stadia-and-latency-got-me-killed/

Relevant section:
That simulation of network latency is where things get really troublesome. In the screenshot further up this page, you can see (if you view the fullsize image), the stream quality, RTT, and "Frames [Janky]: 5." I think that last bit means 83ms of extra latency being injected to approximate the experience of running Stadia from the cloud during less than ideal conditions. What's it like under ideal conditions? "We're not showing that right now. We only showed that earlier in the week." Yeah, that seems like a weird decision to me as well.

Doom on a Windows PC running at 60 fps will be in the 50-70ms latency range, but the Stadia version feels closer to 200ms. If you're used to playing games on an HDTV using a console, maybe you won't notice—the scalers in many TVs can easily add several frames of latency—but I absolutely did. It's why I kept dying, though I did get better over time. Playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey with a controller, the latency issue wasn't as apparent, but then Odyssey isn't as fast-paced as Doom, a lot of Odyssey's animations cover up any perceptible latency, and a controller doesn't feel as precise as a mouse regardless.
 

Uvaman2

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Bottom line, some pudding is in need of proof, and It sucks becuase its not a library access... Its just pay not to own a game.
Ok sure Google.. you already have my CC info, go ahead and charge what you will./s
 
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