Stability issues running a quad core (775/750 SLI)

Discussion in 'Intel Processors' started by Mr. Bluntman, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    So, I've recently picked up a new retro system and I'm having an issue maintaining stability with a Core 2 Quad installed. System specs are listed in my signature as my secondary for brevity. With a Core 2 Duo E8600 installed the system is perfectly stable, but as soon as I install the Q9450 the system will crash within 10-15 minutes (BSOD with memory dump to disk, reboots). Bumping voltage on the memory to 2.1v (kit is model KHX6400D2LLK2/2GN for reference) and voltage on CPU to 1.3375/1.35v will help stability for up to a couple hours, but system will still BSOD, even idle at the desktop. It's not load dependent. Also of note is that in CPU-Z the CPU is detected as a Q9450S - which it is not AFAIK.

    Am I looking at a bad CPU? Are 750i SLI boards just that shitty? Or am I completely missing something?

    Any help would be appreciated, and can provide additional info as needed.
     
  2. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    Do you have the latest BIOS for that board? According to the website support for the Q9450 was added in 0502.

    Do you have the 4-pin auxillary power for the CPU connected? I know with my board (P5N32-E SLI) it could boot without it using a quad core, but you would always run into issues.

    Have you tried using the default settings in the BIOS (in case you changed anything for the dual core)?

    For memory I remember needing to bump up the voltage to 2.2V to get it running at 1066 MHz, but it was just fine operating within JEDEC specs.
     
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  3. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yes, revision 1401. Was 1001 when I recieved the board and the system had even more issues before I updated.

    Oh yes. Before I power on any build I inspect everything to make sure nothing is unplugged that shouldn't be, and that everything that does need plugging in had been so already. Amazing that your board worked at all without the 4-pin connected!

    Yes. I've also tried swapping PSUs and RAM to rule it out. No effect.

    Memory settings being off other than a module being bad was what crossed my mind first. Restoring to JEDEC defaults didn't help. Bumping to 2.2v didn't either.
     
  4. Zareek

    Zareek Limp Gawd

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    I had a C2Quad Q9400 it was solid as a rock overclocked to 3Ghz with 4 x 2GB sticks of RAM @ DDR 800 and then one of the memory channels went bad. Just out of no where, no mater what I did one of the memory channels would produce errors. I tried a different motherboard that had a fully functional E6600 in it. Obviously down clocking and upping voltages. I tried a bunch of ram, I even tried single sided and dual sided DIMMs. Nothing worked, I eventually gave up on it. Nothing like taking more memory bandwidth away from an already memory bandwidth starved quad core.
     
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  5. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    If the socket looks fine and the pads on the CPU look fine I'm going to say it's a bad CPU.
     
  6. GotNoRice

    GotNoRice [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Socket 775 Nvidia chipsets were notoriously unreliable compared to Socket 775 Intel chipsets of the era such as the Intel P35 and P45. The 750i was not bad as older chipsets such as the 680i but still nothing compared to the stability of the Intel chipsets. IIRC the nvidia chipsets tended to run very hot, so maybe you could try to increase cooling around the chipset area. Either way if you are basing your overclocking expectations around how that CPU might perform in an intel chipset motherboard, you are likely to be disappointed.
     
  7. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm not overclocking at all, for the record. I know these chipsets suck at FSB overclocking and really are only any good for multi-only OCing with the X and QX series Core 2. Any 32-bit version of Vista leads to BSODs at random intervals. I'm burned out of trying any new versions immediately though as I've been troubleshooting and reinstalling different versions of Windows on this thing for nearly a week. I have stumbled onto something though; switching to 64-bit seems to fix the crashing. I've been running 16h without a BSOD so far. With 32-bit it would BSOD right on first boot. Strangely it only does this with the quad core installed, it's well behaved with the dual core CPUs I have. Could it still be a bad CPU (seems unlikely with the 64-bit stability)? Or am I looking at board and BIOS problems instead of a bad Q9450?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  8. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    Hmm... I never tried the 32-bit version of Vista, but would be interesting if that is the cause of your woes. I'm actually interested in researching this. I know the release version of Vista would fail installation if you had more than 2GB of memory installed, which is the only issue I had with installing the 64-bit version. That and other than the networking issue I mentioned in your other thread I've never had an issue running Vista 64-bit on my 680i system (QX6700, 4GB DDR2-1066, 8800GTX SLI).
     
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  9. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK [H]ard|Gawd

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    Vista32 was a shitshow for me after I upgraded from XP to see what Crysis looked like in DX10. Everything felt stutterly and laggy, not just games either. Only took around 3 days to get V64 after that. Major difference. And that was on a A64 X2 4200+ , 2GB 533MHz, 9800GTX and RAID 0 on a pair of 80GB Caviars.

    Not to long afterwards, I had a 9550 on a 780i w/ 4GB of 1066 and 9800GTX SLI and V64. IMO Vista w/SP 2 is really no different than W7 other than the memory management.
    32bit Vista is without a doubt no where as stable as 64bit.

    I wish I could say the same for 64bit XP.
     
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  10. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't have any blank disks at the moment to burn another version of Windows, but so far it seems that it could be a 32-bit compatibility issue with Yorkfield CPUs installed. It just flat out won't run stable, but 64-bit Vista works without a hitch. My head simply explodes when trying to think of a reason why other than a buggy motherboard or BIOS implementation that is causing the Windows kernel to promptly shit kittens in a fine spackle everywhere. I wish I had a Q/QX6700 to validate the theory that it is a Yorkfield incompatibility issue.

    Too bad discovering this issue is 10 years to late to make any difference.
     
  11. GiGaBiTe

    GiGaBiTe Gawd

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    The sticks the OP listed the P/N for are 800 MHz (PC2-6400), not 1066 MHz (PC2-8500). and require 1.8v.

    CPUs can partially fail and result in weird crashes that only happen when performing certain workloads. Multi-core CPUs can have one or multiple bad cores and still behave normally until some bit of code upsets them and causes a crash. Heavily used and abused CPUs also can be unstable due to electron migration degrading the die(s). I've seen some server CPUs which had been run at pretty much max load 24/7 for years start to misbehave, but they could be made to work again by bumping up the core voltage or lowering the clock speed.
     
  12. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thanks for the information. I have seriously been wondering if this CPU has been mistreated as a line of pads have a darker patina on them even after cleaning, as if they were exposed to a lot of heat over time. It is both unusual and baffling that it only crashes while running x86 Vista, as 64-bit runs completely stable AFAIK, but there is a reason it's not assembled now and being stability tested as we speak. I would prefer to run x86 as it seems better suited to run on 2GB machines and has better compatibility than x64 with a few programs I wish to run on it. Background processes running on a fully updated SP2 install of Vista definitely needs more than 2GB of RAM, as disk swapping from background processes is so bad the computer is almost completely unresponsive. But that's a whole different problem entirely.

    Upping the voltage all the way up to 1.35v didn't help stability, which leads me to believe that it might be a BIOS or chipset bug on this particular motherboard, but I'm not an EE. The problem only goes away when I install a dual core CPU, but I have no other quads to test. If I had access to one, that would be the next step to rule out the motherboard. For now, it's been disassembled and will be shipped back to the seller for him to further troubleshoot and possibly exchange for a different CPU like a Q6700 or different Q9450.
     
  13. GiGaBiTe

    GiGaBiTe Gawd

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    Darker pads would indicate they got really hot, which is either indicative of heavy current draw (past the design limit) or a bad connection to the socket caused resistance and again got it far too hot. I would suspect the former is more likely than the latter.

    Yeah.. Windows Vista isn't going to run well unless you have at least 4 GB of RAM. 2 GB will work if you only plan on running one application at a time and not do web browsing, anything else will grind it to a halt. Going 32 bit won't help that much, except on CPUs that run slower in 64 bit mode (eg. the Pentium 4 6xx series.)

    If a dual core works fine, it's most certainly the quad that's bad. If you can look at the sSpec printed on the top of the CPU lid, you can figure out what stepping it is, hopefully you don't have an engineering sample or something.
     
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  14. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    They are only slightly darker, but you can definitely tell they are in the light. I was afraid of as much.

    It does work fine. I've tried two different CPUs (an E8600 and a E7500) without issue. It's only the Q9450 that crashes but only in x86. x64 is 24h stable so far.

    You are right about RAM usage, loading a web browser is sluggish. Loading a memory intensive program is rough. During heavy background processes and disk activity Youtube videos occasionally freeze outright. ~120MB sequential disk read/write isn't much, but it's what I've got.

    Thanks for the reply, very helpful.
     
  15. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    A 12-day-later update and x64 Vista and 7 are stable. x86 flavors of XP, Vista, and 7 are not. So with the Q9450 only x64 OS are stable in this particular motherboard (ASUS P5N-D). I'm being sent a Q6600 and Q9300 to eliminate both my CPU being bad, problems running quad cores, and problems just running Yorkfield based quads before I get a replacement anything.
     
  16. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles [H]ard|Gawd

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    An odd issue. Unrelated bluntman but what cooler are you using? I've recently bought a few 775 mobos and I'm having a difficult time locking down the cpu HSF. I have 2 different stock intel ones, a low profile one and one with a bigger metal portion. They both don't seem to fit nearly as good as the 115X ones.
     
  17. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm using a copper core thicker style Intel stock radial heatsink with Arctic Silver Ceramique 2, Temps rarely go above 55c and never above 68-70c under a Prime95 max heat/power consumption load.

    Protip: The trick with the pushpin heatsinks is to apply firm pressure at opposite ends diagonally until you hear a soft click. Rinse, repeat. Go over every corner again to nake sure things have truly snapped in place securely and there is no give in the push pin struts.

    Cooler installs don't get easier, at least for me. There are many I am aware that detest if not outright loathe the push--pin, but I guess I'm lucky in not having any problems (other than having to replace a plastic tab once which is super easy if you have a donor cooler and a standard screwdriver).
     
  18. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah I just get way more resistance and even popping out with 775. All the 115X ones are extremely easy and never give me a problem. The push-pin is hard to beat for convenience (test bench for me) but long-term I use the bottom bracket like on the noctua nh-d14/15.
     
  19. mda

    mda [H]ard|Gawd

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    Bump up the VTT a little. I do remember (I could be wrong) the Nvidia chipset boards not being the best for Quads.