SSDs Lose Data If Left Without Power For Just 7 Days

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, May 11, 2015.

  1. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

    Messages:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1969
    How many of you have data on an SSD that regularly goes without power for more than seven days at a time. I do, and I haven't had a problem yet. Have any of you lost data?

     
  2. TechLarry

    TechLarry Can't find the G Spot

    Messages:
    30,153
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Hell of a time to be finding this out. After all this time now?

    WTF !
     
  3. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

    Messages:
    18,617
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    My computer is never off for more than 10 hours at a time, and my consoles still use mechanical drives. The more important take away here, in my opinion, is why is it still so hard in this day and age to drill the importance of data backup into peoples' minds?
     
  4. oROEchimaru

    oROEchimaru [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,662
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    I had my ssd desktop off for a month without issues.
     
  5. SunnyD

    SunnyD 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,961
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2004
    Misleading sensational title is misleading and sensational.

    The study implies that you'll be storing an enterprise-class SSD in an extreme environment (much higher than 30 degrees C, high humidity) while powered off for long term storage. Who would do that? Nobody.

    If you're archiving data, you're going to have that data on a long term archival medium (tape, optical, etc) in a climate controlled environment..
     
  6. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,437
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    The article is confusing.

    It starts out by stating that data starts to be lost or corrupted in as little as 7 days.
    But then later states that consumer class SSDs start to lose data after 2 years and enterprise after 90 days.

    It doesn't attempt to explain the discrepancy, unless it's saying that under extreme heat the 2 years can be reduced to 7 days but it doesn't make that clear in the article.
     
  7. whitewater

    whitewater n00b

    Messages:
    62
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
  8. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,437
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Problem being that neither you nor I can be certain unless/until we open each and every one of our files.

    You could have a corrupted picture on your drive that is only missing like someone's eye or ear and you wouldn't know until you went to access it a decade from now.
     
  9. oROEchimaru

    oROEchimaru [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,662
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    86 degrees F is not too hot (30 degrees C). I've seen some closets in hospitals get that hot or in a UPS room HVAC issues occur. I've also seen it in DATA centers during summer heat waves. However I have not seen these issues yet although it could still happen. I imagine alot of global shipments have pre-loaded O/S that are off for 10-30 days or longer while they ship, sit at port, go to the store or wharehouse or then ship again to a persons house. You could have 10-60 days of 90-100 degree temps in laptops.
     
  10. oROEchimaru

    oROEchimaru [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,662
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    whitewater, that makes much more sense. 60c is much more extreme than 30c. :)
     
  11. -Dragon-

    -Dragon- 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,318
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    In other news, if you boil your SSD the data retention time drops to the time you turn your PC off until you drop it in boiling water.
     
  12. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    13,067
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Yep, pretty much a worthless click-bait article.
     
  13. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,871
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    In all seriousness, this can matter to people. If they're anything like me and are just scorching hotness, SSD data retention under high temperatures is pretty significant. :D
     
  14. Wizzard

    Wizzard Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    269
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Nobody else puts their computers in the oven for storage? Maybe I'm the only one losing data when I travel to my grandmothers home every other week, for a week at a time. Cold boot are a thing of the past with a system kept at a comfortable 60*C.

    But seriously - Sensationalist article with useless nonsense for 99% of consumers.
     
  15. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,445
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Good thing I don't store my SSDs on the bottom rack of my oven while I'm baking cookies.
     
  16. Mr Milquetoast

    Mr Milquetoast [H]Lite

    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Would apply to SD Cards as well?

    I know somebody who leaves their holiday photos on the SD Cards and buys new cards for each holiday. Presumably this would mean he'll start losing data after two years (or less in higher temperatures)?
     
  17. Quartz-1

    Quartz-1 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,257
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
  18. Quix

    Quix 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,707
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    The sources cited by the article don't support the conclusions in the article. It comes very close to being intentionally obtuse as well. Sloppy journalism, so sloppy it may be intentional. Either the author is a complete idiot who doesn't know anything at all about technology and should be fired, or has written this to intentionally mislead the reader and should be fired.
     
  19. natos

    natos Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    442
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    This is total BS. Maybe they experienced data loss in their scenario, but that does not hold true in all cases, and they should not say it in that manner.

    I have a 60GB OCZ Agility drive that was in a older desktop that didn't touch for well over 6 months back 2 years ago. I began using it again last year, and was able to pick up right where I left off, and Windows was fine, it didn't bluescreen on me hardly ever, and all of my files and documents were still fully intact and usuable, and still have no problems with the drive.
     
  20. Dawill

    Dawill Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    397
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Got usb sticks, sd cards, etc that have sat for years and still have all the data. I don't see why they would fair better than the SSD in my computer. Sounds like bs as others have noted.
     
  21. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,380
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004
    That's a good way to loose their photos.

    And this also applies to USB thumb drives.

    SSD's generally have more error protection than thumb drives or SD cards, so they are more reliable.
    I'd never trust any of them for long term archival storage. Multiple copies/backups (including off site) are the only reliable way to you data.

    When I'm on vacation, I even pull the SD card from my camera most nights and copy any new photos/videos over to the hard drive on laptop, just in case something happens to the card or camera the next day.
     
  22. This study brought to you by seagate who recommend you buy a traditional mechanical hard drive as backup.
     
  23. Sly

    Sly [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,747
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    I thought that's what CRC is for.
     
  24. Kueller

    Kueller [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,984
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    In the summer those self-storage spaces can get pretty hot. I can see any number of scenarios where a computer with an SSD might be put into storage during a move or similar. Would suck to pull it out of storage to find the SSD wiped.
     
  25. MikeRotch

    MikeRotch Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    403
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    I have an HTPC that has an older Sandisk Vnow (or something like that) SSD that routinely goes for days (sometimes a few weeks without being powered on. I do leave it in sleep mode though, but in that mode, only memory is being fed power right? The SSD should not be getting any?
     
  26. viscountalpha

    viscountalpha 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,545
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Sounds like Seagate dives are susceptible to this and they are just spreading FUD.

    Why can't you die already Seagate and take your caviar line of drives with you?
     
  27. bloodypulp

    bloodypulp Gawd

    Messages:
    903
    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    I have SSDs that are inactive for 6-7 months at a time, still works fine. [some including 840EVO]. Maybe I should buy a Lottery ticket.
     
  28. gnzblz

    gnzblz n00b

    Messages:
    40
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    How come nobody knows how to spell "lose"? I swear it's the most misspelled word on the internet /rant.
     
  29. Yakk

    Yakk [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,810
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    I'm starting to have more than a few SD cards with corruption on them. The odd thing is they still pass read/write tests, but interestingly the photos (Data) which were on there became corrupt. And I know they were OK originally.

    I didn't pay too much attention at first, but it keeps happening... Hmmm...

    And yes I always backup too HD & Online backup now.
     
  30. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,500
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    The open moral of the story is: Do not store your SSD in the oven.

    The hidden moral of the story is: Misleading headlines are click bait.
     
  31. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,500
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    I like too think the internet is bigger then that anymore.
     
  32. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    28,446
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000
    I was about to say "duh", until I read the 7 days bit.

    It is well known that the cells in Flash NAND lose charge over time, and one they reach below a certain threshold can no longer be "read".

    The drive firmware actively manages this, and as cells get close to that threshold, rewrite them to keep them alive.

    7 days seem AWFULLY short though. I thought on Samsungs TLC drives this number was closer to 7 MONTHS, and I would only expect it to be higher on MLC and SLC drives.
     
  33. KickAssCop

    KickAssCop [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,576
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    I want to live in the part of the planet that has 60 C temperatures consistently for 7 days.
    Seriously, Seagate guys need to learn how to fix making mechanical drives before they are qualified to comment on SSDs lol.

    What a bunch of jokers. I loved Seagate but their recent reliability has been utter crap. I wouldn't trust any SSD advice from them.
     
  34. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    28,446
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000
    So, article seems to conflict itself.

    It also mentions a 2 year figure for consumer drives. Based on the 7 month estimate for TLC drives this seems reasonable.

    So, how would this get down to 7 days? They say the time halves every 5 degree Celsius rise in temperature.

    So, since it is an exponential relationship, and increase of between 30 and 35 degrees Celsius would do the trick. 30 degree increase = 11.4 days. 35 degree increase = 5.7 days.

    So I guess the question is at what temperature is that base 2 year figure speced for?

    Lets assume standard temperature pressure, so 20C (68F). You would have to store the SSD turned off in a 50-55 celsius (122 to 131F) storage location to bring it down to 7 days.

    Many peoples cases get hot (but hopefully not this hot) but as far as unplugged storage? Maybe if you live in the desert and store it outside in a box?
     
  35. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    28,446
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000
    You would?

    I'd rather pass on that one :p

    I don't even particularly care for our 85F 60% RH days here.
     
  36. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,470
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    QFMFT. Isn't lose a word you learn in grade school?
     
  37. fixedmy7970

    fixedmy7970 Gawd

    Messages:
    524
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    I don't think this is click bait at all. Sometimes people leave their SSD's unplugged in their cases, where 100+ degrees isn't uncommon. I'm glad this info was released
     
  38. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    28,446
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000
    Pretty fair summary IMHO.
     
  39. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,470
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Everyone is talking about the short end, but I didn't know that these were only good for 90 days and 2 years. I've got mechanical drives that I haven't used for years and when I plug them in, they're good.

    I'll chalk this up to not doing enough research on my side, but to me 90 days isn't very long at all. I've definitely had computers that I quit using for longer than that (which may have had data that eventually wasn't backed up elsewhere...mostly because those old drives often were the backup before they were retired many years ago).

    I'm sure I could live without what's on them (it has been 10 years in one case). As for flash, the only time I've lost data on a usb flash drive was if the drive itself died (or I lost the drive ;) )...though I don't know how long those drives were sitting in a drawer...more than a year I'm sure.
     
  40. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    28,446
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000
    CRC isn't magic.

    It can help save some data due to minor issues, but it is by no means a full replicate.