SSD drives versus USB flash drives for backup storage

[hititnquitit]

Asking for hard evidence...

Getting request fulfilled repeatedly...

Crying about the evidence being user experience based (what more can you ask for). Rather than test based evidence (which doesn't exist). Knowing full well that test based information/evidence doesn't exist prior to posting OP= 100% troll.

 

[travm]

Asking for hard evidence...

Getting request fulfilled repeatedly...

Crying about the evidence being user experience based (what more can you ask for). Rather than test based evidence (which doesn't exist). Knowing full well that test based information/evidence doesn't exist prior to posting OP= 100% troll.

I guess our advice should have been;
Yes you can use usb drives for long term backup, but make sure you put em in the microwave for 45s every six months to keep it fresh.

 

[xx0xx]

Anecdotal experience aside, it's just flat out true that majority of USB flash drives are abysmally slow in comparison to SSDs. The ones that are SSD-like in speeds are that way because they are essentially compact SSDs- they often have SSD-like controllers, are a bit bigger to accommodate this (along with likely more chips to benefit from parallelism). It is very possible that the bargain-chasing/cost-cutting cheapo USB drives don't exactly use the most pristine flash or electronic components either. Seems like trusting data to that would be a disaster waiting to happen.

I have often wondered if SD cards or USB flash drives could be used as backups if they are written to very rarely (dump a bunch of files on them and then store them away safely for long periods of time) but I'm still not sure I'd trust them as much as more robust disks

 

[mwroobel]

I guess our advice should have been;
Yes you can use usb drives for long term backup, but make sure you put em in the microwave for 45s every six months to keep it fresh.

I was going to say flash last longest when maintained at a constant temperature, instead of fluctuating between extremes of heat and cold. Run a USB extension cable to the flash drive, and dump it into a vat of liquid nitrogen. It will keep the bits chilled and operating at maximum efficiency.

 

[Nenu]

Anecdotal experience aside, it's just flat out true that majority of USB flash drives are abysmally slow in comparison to SSDs. The ones that are SSD-like in speeds are that way because they are essentially compact SSDs- they often have SSD-like controllers, are a bit bigger to accommodate this (along with likely more chips to benefit from parallelism). It is very possible that the bargain-chasing/cost-cutting cheapo USB drives don't exactly use the most pristine flash or electronic components either. Seems like trusting data to that would be a disaster waiting to happen.

I have often wondered if SD cards or USB flash drives could be used as backups if they are written to very rarely (dump a bunch of files on them and then store them away safely for long periods of time) but I'm still not sure I'd trust them as much as more robust disks

My experience of USB/SD cards is cells can die or corrupt their data not long after a successful copy.

For example, I take photos on my camera and successfully copy the photos off when I get home.
A few weeks later I show the same photos that are still on the camera to a friend and some of them are corrupt, showing an X where there should be an image.
And indeed, my PC cannot read those files from the SD card either.
Lucky I have the copies I made earlier!
This has happened quite a few times on my Sandisk Extreme and other cards.

On USB drives I found what appear to be areas on some drives that will corrupt whatever is written there either immediately or after some time.
Other drives have corrupted more readily or just died for no apparent reason.
Or they start getting really hot in use and then corrupt and/or die.
The number of USB thumb drives I've binned is crazy.

 

[hititnquitit]

My experience of USB/SD cards is cells can die or corrupt their data not long after a successful copy.

For example, I take photos on my camera and successfully copy the photos off when I get home.
A few weeks later I show the same photos that are still on the camera to a friend and some of them are corrupt, showing an X where there should be an image.
And indeed, my PC cannot read those files from the SD card either.
Lucky I have the copies I made earlier!
This has happened quite a few times on my Sandisk Extreme and other cards.

On USB drives I found what appear to be areas on some drives that will corrupt whatever is written there either immediately or after some time.
Other drives have corrupted more readily or just died for no apparent reason.
Or they start getting really hot in use and then corrupt and/or die.
The number of USB thumb drives I've binned is crazy.

I've had several just die for no reason as well. No rhyme nor reason. One day they will work, the next, nothing.

I guess our advice should have been;
Yes you can use usb drives for long term backup, but make sure you put em in the microwave for 45s every six months to keep it fresh.

Hahaha. The microwave boy lives on. I can't help but chuckle whenever his story is mentioned.

Snap, crackle, POP!

 

[uOpt]

I also found that CF cards are a lot more robust than SD or microSD cards. They are not all born the same.

 

[Nenu]

I also found that CF cards are a lot more robust than SD or microSD cards. They are not all born the same.

I dont have enough experience to give a broad opinion, just an anecdote.
My camera around year 2000 used compact flash and that also had problems with photos corrupting after some time.
ie a few would not display on the cameras screen because they had corrupted a while later (few months probably).
This was the first time I encountered the problem with a camera, probably because it was my first digital camera
That was a "PQI F1 128MB" compact flash, I've no idea of the quality.
fwiw.


Aaah, actually I had another lower res camera before with Compact Flash and didnt experience problems...
My memory is a bit like a USB drive, you can scan it for a while and get more data

 

[xx0xx]

and honestly I have experience with SD corruption that I had forgotten about til it was mentioned here.... as a Raspberry Pi owner I'm all too familiar with SD card corruption

so that remains a good reminder not to remotely trust that kind of media with important data (not that anyone should only have 1 or even only 2 copies of important data), let's just say my backup hygiene at the moment is horrendous and i'm working to fix it- I have no excuse, as the data I need to back up is incredibly small anyway

 

[dogDAbone]

"Cheap is as cheap does" - Forest, Forest Gump...well, sorta, hehehe

But yea, for quick grab & go for some files you need to carry with you, flash drives are great.

But they were NEVER designed to be used as long term or permanent storage devices....even if you have some that haven't failed after many, many years, the chances that they will fail only increases with time...

I have some older ones from the early 2000's that still work fine overall, but I will NOT, under any circumstances, use them for critical files storage or even OS back-up drives... that's what HDD's, SSD's & m.2's are for

 

[DougL]

So I asked Western Digital support. Here's what they said.

We would like to inform you that an SSD is a great choice if you're all about speed. SSDs have comparable storage space to a USB flash drive. This makes them an excellent choice for storing operating systems and software. The durability and speed of an SSD compensate for the price tag. The fastest external SSD we have is Extreme Portable Pro V2 SSD (SDSSDE81) and it comes with a read and writes speed of 2000MB/s.

SSD and USB flash drives can store data just fine, but they fit different niches that make them better at performing specific roles. USB flash drives are small sticks that plug snugly into a USB port. Their small size makes them a convenient way to store data. SSDs use flash storage technology. USB drives also use this technology, but SSDs provide a more advanced version designed to handle the daily demands of computers and servers.

This totally depends on the user's requirements like in what environment/purpose he wants to use a drive. Generally, a high-quality flash drive is at least as good a place to store your data. That's because these types of drives all use the same type of highly reliable memory, called solid-state flash memory.

If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further.

These folks sell SSDs and (through SanDisk) they also sell flash drives, so I gather there is no bias in this response. Sounds to me like speed is the only issue which, for scheduled backups, is kind of meaningless, thoguh they might be reluctant to admit that ANY of their products are unreliable. Argue away!

 

[arestavo]

So I asked Western Digital support. Here's what they said.



We would like to inform you that an SSD is a great choice if you're all about speed. SSDs have comparable storage space to a USB flash drive. This makes them an excellent choice for storing operating systems and software. The durability and speed of an SSD compensate for the price tag. The fastest external SSD we have is Extreme Portable Pro V2 SSD (SDSSDE81) and it comes with a read and writes speed of 2000MB/s.



SSD and USB flash drives can store data just fine, but they fit different niches that make them better at performing specific roles. USB flash drives are small sticks that plug snugly into a USB port. Their small size makes them a convenient way to store data. SSDs use flash storage technology. USB drives also use this technology, but SSDs provide a more advanced version designed to handle the daily demands of computers and servers.



This totally depends on the user's requirements like in what environment/purpose he wants to use a drive. Generally, a high-quality flash drive is at least as good a place to store your data. That's because these types of drives all use the same type of highly reliable memory, called solid-state flash memory.



If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further.



These folks sell SSDs and (through SanDisk) they also sell flash drives, so I gather there is no bias in this response. Sounds to me like speed is the only issue which, for scheduled backups, is kind of meaningless, thoguh they might be reluctant to admit that ANY of their products are unreliable. Argue away!

The last USB drive that died on me was a 128GB Sandisk Cruzer a few months ago. It was about 4 years old and not written to often (probably around 6 to 8 times), as I used it as a Windows 10 USB installer. When it stopped working, I could no longer even format it in Disk Management.

I also had two Corsair Flash Voyager GS 512GB thumb drives die on me a little more than a year ago. They were about 3 years old. I'd used them even less, writing to them probably 3 or 4 times when I wanted to transfer some games over to my laptop. One failed to even be recognized in any USB port, the other failed writing to it after so many megabytes written but was still recognized in windows. These were chonky, very well built thumb drives that I _thought_ would last for a very long time.

Of the dozens of thumb drives that I've had over the past 15 years or so, none lasted. For what it's worth, I still have two 74GB WD Velociraptor 10K RPM SATA drives that still work when I plug them in almost 20 years later.

 

[pitingres]

Oddly enough, I've never had a USB flash drive fail. I have about 8 that I use "regularly", meaning once every couple months for something or other. The oldest is a 128 MB relic that's at least 20 years old (conference swag) and still works fine.

 

[uOpt]

That's because these types of drives all use the same type of highly reliable memory, called solid-state flash memory.

That's just cringe, starting with the fact that Flash is only made reliable in the product (such as a SSD).

 

[xx0xx]

I mean, asking any company directly, you're going to get a PR/Marketing response. No surprise there.

My view, is that yes, you might be fine and survive putting some critical backup data on a flash drive.
But just because there's a chance doesn't mean the chance is worth taking.

But
1) if you do it, it shouldn't be your only backup (best to follow 3-2-1 strategy or similar)
2) you're rolling the dice regardless with something less durable and
3) any sensible security/backup strategy should take durability/longevity into account so jokes on you if that data corrupts or disappears

 

[pitingres]

In a seriously annoying demonstration of karma biting one in the ass, I just tried to use the 128 MB flash drive that I bragged about above, and it's dead. It was fine a couple weeks ago.

I suppose I shouldn't complain about getting 20+ years of use out of it.

 

[dogDAbone]

In a seriously annoying demonstration of karma biting one in the ass, I just tried to use the 128 MB flash drive that I bragged about above, and it's dead.

Well, perhaps Bones can help here...

I'm a Doctor, not a pc tech, but even I know that IT'S DEAD, JIM

 

[DougL]

This is a pretty funny thread. Everyone KNOWS that flash drives are unreliable, but no one can point to a real series of credible tests that show that. I have an open mind about it (which is why I'm here asking), but all I'm hearing here is rumor, innuendo, and personal failures. I know of an SSD drive that failed. That counts too, right? Geez Louise, that means that all SSD drives are crap!

No question that flash drives get handled, bounced, and dropped. Might that have something to do with reported failures?

 

[arestavo]

This is a pretty funny thread. Everyone KNOWS that flash drives are unreliable, but no one can point to a real series of credible tests that show that. I have an open mind about it (which is why I'm here asking), but all I'm hearing here is rumor, innuendo, and personal failures. I know of an SSD drive that failed. That counts too, right? Geez Louise, that means that all SSD drives are crap!

No question that flash drives get handled, bounced, and dropped. Might that have something to do with reported failures?

I've had one thumb drive that I've carried around when I was deployed to Iraq. I can't even remember the name, but it was very expensive for the time (2004-2005ish) as it was a large thumb drive back then. It eventually failed because the plug wobbled back and forth too much. The other ones that have failed sat right next to my computer downstairs or upstairs.

To me, it just sounds like you want to troll. Use the thumb drives already, it's obviously what you want to do - so do it.

 

[pitingres]

It was common knowledge that Earth's continents didn't move around, either. Everyone knew that was crazy. It took 50 years for plate tectonics to be accepted.

I'm with DougL. Sure, we all "know" that USB flash drives are unreliable. Are they really? By what percentage? and why? Where's the data? I don't actually have any doubt that flash drives are less reliable, but it would be nice to know for sure, and to what degree, and for what reason.

The dismissive attacks here smack of trying to defend an emotional position. I'm not impressed. Where's your data?

(and polls are just asking for a bunch of anecdotal evidence, which we all ought to know is worthless unless backed up by statistical evidence.)

 

[arestavo]

It was common knowledge that Earth's continents didn't move around, either. Everyone knew that was crazy. It took 50 years for plate tectonics to be accepted.

I'm with DougL. Sure, we all "know" that USB flash drives are unreliable. Are they really? By what percentage? and why? Where's the data? I don't actually have any doubt that flash drives are less reliable, but it would be nice to know for sure, and to what degree, and for what reason.

The dismissive attacks here smack of trying to defend an emotional position. I'm not impressed. Where's your data?

(and polls are just asking for a bunch of anecdotal evidence, which we all ought to know is worthless unless backed up by statistical evidence.)

It's already been stated that folks haven't been able to find places that have done what you're asking. Myself included.

It's either take people's personal experience with them being reliable or not, or don't. Or, a third option - do it yourself. Get a ton of thumb drives and do Backblaze like reliability testing and report back to us. You'd be the first to do it!

 

[Zepher]

It was common knowledge that Earth's continents didn't move around, either. Everyone knew that was crazy. It took 50 years for plate tectonics to be accepted.

I'm with DougL. Sure, we all "know" that USB flash drives are unreliable. Are they really? By what percentage? and why? Where's the data? I don't actually have any doubt that flash drives are less reliable, but it would be nice to know for sure, and to what degree, and for what reason.

The dismissive attacks here smack of trying to defend an emotional position. I'm not impressed. Where's your data?

(and polls are just asking for a bunch of anecdotal evidence, which we all ought to know is worthless unless backed up by statistical evidence.)

There is probably no real data because thumbdrives are considered disposable storage.
Unraid runs off a USB stick, maybe search unraid forums and see how many people have had to replace their thumbdrives over the years.
Not sure if it only reads from the stick during use as I haven't used unraid yet.

 

[xDiVolatilX]

For important files always have 2 see drives with the same data on them copied so if one of them breaks you have another identical backup. The chances of both breaking at the same time are extremely slim.

 

[etudiant]

There is probably no real data because thumbdrives are considered disposable storage.
Unraid runs off a USB stick, maybe search unraid forums and see how many people have had to replace their thumbdrives over the years.
Not sure if it only reads from the stick during use as I haven't used unraid yet.

Are thumb drives any more reliable than SD cards?
I have lots of photos on SD cards that are 5-15 years old, one or two cards per trip. They still seem to work fine, although I've no objective measure.
Are photos more tolerant of read errors than other files?

 

[RecentlyAdded]

used 3.5" HD are dirt cheap by the TB. Takes a bit longer to backup but as long as you don't drop them, almost last forever. I had bunch of 1-2 TB, Used a few for backup, and give away the rest on craigslist

 

[DougL]

There is probably no real data because thumbdrives are considered disposable storage.

But there isn't any real evidence that they ought to be. This is a bit awkward, no?

To me, it just sounds like you want to troll. Use the thumb drives already, it's obviously what you want to do - so do it.

Yes, when people ask hard questions, they can be accused of trolling. What I want to do is what will work best for me. But no one here seems to be able to offer any real evidence to justify a decision.

 

[MrGuvernment]

If you write to a USB key and just store it, it could likely last for a very very long time, and if you buy a quality USB drive, much like an SSD, buy some cheap knock off brand and expect it to not last as long as a known brand drive. So long as you keep either one stored properly as well as have more than 1 drive with your data on it, and stored in seperate physical locations, sure you would be just fine.
I have USB keys that are 5+ years old and work fine still, but dont use them often. I have had USB Drives that crapped out because of crap design (sandisk looking at you and your mini ones that get so hot they just stop working until they cooled off)
If you plan to do lots of writes to that flash drive, yes, it will have a shorter life than an SSD

Flash memory has a limited lifespan - the number of times that a block can be erased and rewritten is limited. What’s worse, as NAND flash memory becomes denser and denser with the application of multi-layer cell technology, the number of times will drop sharply.
Different from flash storage, there is no limit to the number of block reads on the SSD. The lifespan of SSD is usually measured by TBW (Total Bytes Written). For example, a 2 TB Intel 660p SSD will be rated for 400 TB if it adopts 3D QLC NAND; a 2 TB Intel 760p SSD will be rated for 1152 TB if it adopts 3D TLC NAND.

 

[Nenu]

But there isn't any real evidence that they ought to be. This is a bit awkward, no?

Yes, it appears so for you.

 

[arestavo]

But there isn't any real evidence that they ought to be. This is a bit awkward, no?



Yes, when people ask hard questions, they can be accused of trolling. What I want to do is what will work best for me. But no one here seems to be able to offer any real evidence to justify a decision.

Only to you, the person not wanting to take others' experience as evidence.

Good luck to you, I'm done. You do you. Again, don't cry here if something bad happens with your data.

 

[pitingres]

Only to you, the person not wanting to take others' experience as evidence.

Good luck to you, I'm done. You do you. Again, don't cry here if something bad happens with your data.

Anecdotes aren't evidence. See above; I don't necessarily dispute that USB flash drives are less reliable than (SSD here), but saying "I'm done" is a cop-out. Tell us why USB flash is sub-standard, or say you don't know. The rest is BS.

 

[arestavo]

Anecdotes aren't evidence. See above; I don't necessarily dispute that USB flash drives are less reliable than (SSD here), but saying "I'm done" is a cop-out. Tell us why USB flash is sub-standard, or say you don't know. The rest is BS.

You do you boo. We tried to help, they (you?) don't want it.

Sayonara.

 

[dogDAbone]

Sounds like a case of "you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him/her drink it"

 

[cpufrost]

Those 1TB flash drives for $20 are actually 16GB drives with HB firmware that reports 1TB to the OS.
Watch what happens when you exceed the native capacity! ;-)

 

[bananas1]

One tiny benefit of a flash drive as an extra temporary backup is I've recovered deleted files with it multiple times with DMDE. With an SSD, you cannot recover anything that's deleted. Something to think about if you're frequently changing and deleting data in your backups.

 

[travm]

So I asked Western Digital support. Here's what they said.

We would like to inform you that an SSD is a great choice if you're all about speed. SSDs have comparable storage space to a USB flash drive. This makes them an excellent choice for storing operating systems and software. The durability and speed of an SSD compensate for the price tag. The fastest external SSD we have is Extreme Portable Pro V2 SSD (SDSSDE81) and it comes with a read and writes speed of 2000MB/s.

SSD and USB flash drives can store data just fine, but they fit different niches that make them better at performing specific roles. USB flash drives are small sticks that plug snugly into a USB port. Their small size makes them a convenient way to store data. SSDs use flash storage technology. USB drives also use this technology, but SSDs provide a more advanced version designed to handle the daily demands of computers and servers.

This totally depends on the user's requirements like in what environment/purpose he wants to use a drive. Generally, a high-quality flash drive is at least as good a place to store your data. That's because these types of drives all use the same type of highly reliable memory, called solid-state flash memory.

If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further.

These folks sell SSDs and (through SanDisk) they also sell flash drives, so I gather there is no bias in this response. Sounds to me like speed is the only issue which, for scheduled backups, is kind of meaningless, thoguh they might be reluctant to admit that ANY of their products are unreliable. Argue away!

If you read what they wrote, they said speed and durability.
An SSD will provide for reliable back up, a USB flash disk is less reliable.
What did you expect them to say?
"No our usb flash disk are trash and will corrupt your data for sure"

 

[Starfalcon]

Sounds like a case of "you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him/her drink it"

Or even better "You can lead a man to the microwave, but you cant stop him from putting his USB stick in it".

 

[mwroobel]

Or even better "You can lead a man to the microwave, but you cant stop him from putting his USB stick in it".

Are you kidding?? THAT is how you fix bad NAND. For hard drives everyone recommended cold so you put them in the freezer (except that stopped working after stiction problems were resolved with a change in lubricant) so for NAND you need HEAT, so sure.... put it in the microwave!!
/sarcasm

 

[dogDAbone]

Are you kidding?? THAT is how you fix bad NAND. For hard drives everyone recommended cold so you put them in the freezer (except that stopped working after stiction problems were resolved with a change in lubricant) so for NAND you need HEAT, so sure.... put it in the microwave!!
/sarcasm

I seem to recall hearing a few years ago that baking a malfunctioning HDD at like 350° was a sure-fire fix, but I never tried it, so I can't say whether or not it was true...

 

[Lebowski]

https://www.amazon.com/USB-Flash-Drive-Portable-Drives/dp/B0BNDG2MQN/ref=sr_1_2_sspa

1 TB thumb drive for $20. You should get out more. USB hubs are a few bucks each. So I could get three flash backups for the price of one SATA.

It seems like you aren't listening to anyone and are just trying to defend your decision to be cheap. A $20 1TB usb drive is a scam. Think it was LTT did a video on one and it's just a smaller capacity drive with hacked firmware to show a larger size. It essential just overwrites older data and doesn't tell you.
People here with experience are telling you usb flash drives aren't for long term storage/data backup.
The memory on them is cheap. They are made to be portable storage, not data backup.
If you want data backup, platter drives are your best GB per $ option and are more reliable than a pocket flash drive.

 

[travm]

Anecdotes aren't evidence. See above; I don't necessarily dispute that USB flash drives are less reliable than (SSD here), but saying "I'm done" is a cop-out. Tell us why USB flash is sub-standard, or say you don't know. The rest is BS.

I have a couple failed usb flash drives on my desk ...
They are made with cheaper memory. Take one apart, I've seen micro SD cards literally soldered to a PCB with USB controller. It's no secret those are made with slower, cheaper, and less durable memory. All other components are made with every possible corner cut.
Sure if you spend $200 on a flash drive it's probably made with quality parts and comparable to SSD. But the majority are not made that way, and they do fail.